Intelligence factor?

[pre med 2014]

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Why even try to compare the two? Compared to anything I've done in med school organic was a joke...

O chem was hard like med school. I think what makes med school hard is the extra sacrifices due to more material not that any of the material is harder in itself. It's just that there is more of it. For example I worked in college 20-30 hours a week. And did tons of recreational activities. First year med I had NO job leaving my weekends free and every weekday free from having to do a short shift at work and I still had to sacrifice my participation in sports. I run way less, it's no longer any endurance but 'just enough' to stay healthy, anything 'extra' cuts into potential study time. And it's not worth it.

I find it crazy that even without any work commitment I had to cut back on exercise.

 

[NontradCA]

It's a pretty solid tool, in my opinion. Basically super quick, high yield info you'd see in First Aid but with slightly more detail. The idea is you do an hour or so a day to keep old things fresh.

For example, you'd get: "What do you see on EM with minimal change disease?" You answer in your head quickly, "effacement of foot processes," rate your knowledge 1-5, and move to the next question. Rate a 5 you'll see it in 3 weeks, rate a 1 it hits you again tomorrow. There's an detailed explanation for each answer if needed with a full synopsis of the general subject.

The explanations are nice. I go through each section relevant to the block before it starts or during the first couple days. I start CV Monday and have already flagged all of thorax anatomy for instance.

 

[NontradCA]

What's wrong with it?

The OP used him as an example to create a thread. It's low class. Kind of creepy as well.

 

[tellmemore2020]

Why even try to compare the two? Compared to anything I've done in med school organic was a joke...

See, everything in med school is a joke compared to my organic chemistry class. The med school class throws a fit at so much as a second order question; the orgo tests were curve ball after curve ball. I also had trouble with physics and handle physiology with no problem. People who hated the pre-reqs: you, too, can be okay. (Unless you hated ALL of biology; turn around now).

 

[pre med 2014]

(Unless you hated ALL of biology; turn around now).

Are you joking? There's not that much bio in med school

 

[Jabbed]

Ah, ok. I guess I just don't see how direct recall questions help you on the boards, but I guess if you don't have the info down as direct recall then it's hard to apply it. I imagine it would be best for the Anatomy course which tends to be rote a memorization subject anyways.

Some of my Anki cards due today:

Which endocrine complication is associated with Hypertriglyceridemia (Type IV Familial Dyslipidemia)? Pancreatitis
What is the rate-determining enzyme of fatty acid oxidation? Carnitine acyltransferase I
Which lysosomal storage disorder is associated with optic atrophy as well as peripheral neuropathy and developmental delay? Krabbe Disease
When is normal, physiological splitting of S2 heart sound seen? Inspiration

Some of them are rote memorization (Krabbe's, CAT I) and some are more logical or concept-based (S2). The point though is to build a mental database of discrete factoids. Things like heart sounds are inevitably easier once you understand physiology, but I still might want to review them periodically, so the algorithm might set it to come up once every six months. Things like enzyme deficiencies I might forget a lot sooner, so I'll see it every 2 months or so.

 

[Jabbed]

I don't know how this thread got to "is orgo = med school??"... but no. No, it is not.

 

[DrEnderW]

I don't know how this thread got to "is orgo = med school??"... but no. No, it is not.

I don't think he's saying that at all. I think the point was to elucidate that many undergrad classes are more intellectually demanding than med school and that success in med school is primarily a work ethic/ efficiency hurdle with everyone meeting the requisite intellectual barrier. I tend to agree with that, at least for the preclinical years. Organic, calc physics, and upper level molec bio classes were orders of magnitude more intellectually difficult than what I've seen MS1-MS2 and qbanks. I'm sure that varies by undergrad and major. With that said, the volume and detail ends up making med school way more difficult.

For example here's a med school question: description of patient presentation, some background history, some lab reports, and histological description of a kidney biopsy. Sifting through the vignette requires intelligence and some students will confuse lets say renal cell carcinoma, ARPKD, and ADPKD. However, the majority of students will agree the vignette is describing a cystic disease. Looking at an associated image confirms ARPKD in your mind. However, the answer choices are all listed as chromosome numbers, demanding students to know the location of the mutation. The vast majority of students will reason to this point, know that it's the PKD gene, but only 20% of students will have spent the time memorizing the chromosome number even though they have the intellectual capacity to completely understand renal pathology.

Of course there will be a few more difficult questions on each exam, but those are creating spread at the top, not separating a near pass and an honors grade. The OP was asking about people really struggling to get by and I think there are a bunch of other factors that come into play before you make it down to intelligence differences between students in the same class.

 

[Psai]

the reason why you understand what a chromosome is or a mutation is because you've been exposed to it in intro biology already

they make the tests harder with more thinking because the students are getting better and better. if you set students on old usmles, everyone would do well because we know how to answer the questions and we're ready for the tricks. we learn the buzzword so they change it to a description of the condition instead of the buzzword. we know what the first line drug is so they test the second line drug. then we learn that too so they ask about the mechanism of action of that drug. then we learn that so they ask about the major side effect of the second line drug

i've taken graduate level science classes and yes the concepts are difficult but they don't cover the same breadth of material. we also go into significant depth as well, it's just harder to see because we have the foundation down from our previous coursework. most things in medical school are not difficult by themselves. but memorizing everything, really understanding it and being able to apply that knowledge to real patients is the goal

 

[Jabbed]

I don't think he's saying that at all. I think the point was to elucidate that many undergrad classes are more intellectually demanding than med school and that success in med school is primarily a work ethic/ efficiency hurdle with everyone meeting the requisite intellectual barrier. I tend to agree with that, at least for the preclinical years. Organic, calc physics, and upper level molec bio classes were orders of magnitude more intellectually difficult than what I've seen MS1-MS2 and qbanks. I'm sure that varies by undergrad and major. With that said, the volume and detail ends up making med school way more difficult.

For example here's a med school question: description of patient presentation, some background history, some lab reports, and histological description of a kidney biopsy. Sifting through the vignette requires intelligence and some students will confuse lets say renal cell carcinoma, ARPKD, and ADPKD. However, the majority of students will agree the vignette is describing a cystic disease. Looking at an associated image confirms ARPKD in your mind. However, the answer choices are all listed as chromosome numbers, demanding students to know the location of the mutation. The vast majority of students will reason to this point, know that it's the PKD gene, but only 20% of students will have spent the time memorizing the chromosome number even though they have the intellectual capacity to completely understand renal pathology.

Of course there will be a few more difficult questions on each exam, but those are creating spread at the top, not separating a near pass and an honors grade. The OP was asking about people really struggling to get by and I think there are a bunch of other factors that come into play before you make it down to intelligence differences between students in the same class.

I don't know about that. I would say that the applied sciences (physics, orgo) were the most 'intellectually demanding' by that criteria, but lets be real. A "second order" question in orgo basically required the initial rote memorization of reactions and molecular properties with an ounce of common sense. The big hurdle was always the memorization of disparate and arcane information, but the integration was relatively simple once you really knew the information. I don't ever remember thinking "wow I really thought that I knew everything but ended up bombing the test." My biggest grievances had to do with the time involved in memorizing all the information in the first place. Applied physics is slightly different, as the concepts are all relatively straightforward and the difficulty lies in the application. That said, physiology = applied physics. Hemodynamics alone involves application of Bernoulli's Principle, Laplace's law, flow dynamics, series/circuit resistors and capacitors, wall tension, Ohm's law and multifactorial forces. Understanding how neurons actually work requires deep understanding of series/parallel resistors and capacitors not to mention basic circuit theory and cable theory. That **** can get complex.

I would argue that med school is even more difficult, as you not only have to understand the theory and application, but you then have to correlate it with EBM. i.e. What diagnostic test can be used to rule in pheochromocytoma? First order: pheochromocytoma is a catecholamine secreting tumor of the adrenal medulla. Second order: We'd expect to see increased breakdown products in the urine. Third order: Catecholamine breakdown ends with VMA, so urine sample testing for VMA should be good right? Fourth order: Oh wait, apparently VMA urine testing has low sensitivity for pheos, even though I would expect that to be the end product. Apparently the best test is for the penultimate breakdown products: normetanephrine and metanephrine.

 

[Jabbed]

I don't think he's saying that at all. I think the point was to elucidate that many undergrad classes are more intellectually demanding than med school and that success in med school is primarily a work ethic/ efficiency hurdle with everyone meeting the requisite intellectual barrier. I tend to agree with that, at least for the preclinical years. Organic, calc physics, and upper level molec bio classes were orders of magnitude more intellectually difficult than what I've seen MS1-MS2 and qbanks. I'm sure that varies by undergrad and major. With that said, the volume and detail ends up making med school way more difficult.

For example here's a med school question: description of patient presentation, some background history, some lab reports, and histological description of a kidney biopsy. Sifting through the vignette requires intelligence and some students will confuse lets say renal cell carcinoma, ARPKD, and ADPKD. However, the majority of students will agree the vignette is describing a cystic disease. Looking at an associated image confirms ARPKD in your mind. However, the answer choices are all listed as chromosome numbers, demanding students to know the location of the mutation. The vast majority of students will reason to this point, know that it's the PKD gene, but only 20% of students will have spent the time memorizing the chromosome number even though they have the intellectual capacity to completely understand renal pathology.

Of course there will be a few more difficult questions on each exam, but those are creating spread at the top, not separating a near pass and an honors grade. The OP was asking about people really struggling to get by and I think there are a bunch of other factors that come into play before you make it down to intelligence differences between students in the same class.

If you want to compare med school to other undergrad courses in terms of intellectual rigor, I might agree. Econometrics and higher level applied calculus were hard as ****. Intro particle physics/string theory still makes my head spin. Orgo and cell molec make me roll my eyes.

 

[redpanda]

Honestly, I only used Anki for things that I missed in the Step 1 QBanks at the end of MS2. I found it pointless to be making cards for things during the rest of the school year for things that were sticking in my brain easily.

 

[PL198]

What about using a pre made anki deck ? Is this something you could do 30 min a day , or would it require a greater time commitment to stay up with the cards ?

 

[username456789]

I stream all lectures, and memorize every word of the coursebook provided. I do this by making anki cards for everything, getting through those anki cards successfully, then I do last week's anki cards for that day. It does take a long time, but I get every sentence and usually score >95%. Idk if its worth it considering its pass fail/whether its even worth it or not in terms of step prep, but I just figured I would keep it up and do the best I can. I can usually get through the material 4-5X before the test using this method but yeah I have no life

I wasn't all that different than what you're describing for the first two years, honestly. For whatever reason, I was always really uncomfortable not knowing every single detail. I realize this probably wasn't completely necessary, but I don't regret it a bit in hindsight. I did fantastically during M1/M2, and that provided me with a ton of momentum heading into M3. Most of the stuff I was pimped on early on in third year was preclinical minutiae.

It also helped me establish a pattern of successful studying. The only downside is that it might be difficult for someone to streamline their studying habits after experiencing success with a more tedious approach.

Either way, I'm exactly where I want to be now. That's what matters to me.

 

[DermViser]

The OP used him as an example to create a thread. It's low class. Kind of creepy as well.

Ah, ok. Didn't see that he was the one who started the thread.

 

[TheRobin]

What about using a pre made anki deck ? Is this something you could do 30 min a day , or would it require a greater time commitment to stay up with the cards ?

The time commitment with a pre-made deck depends on the limit you set on reviewing cards. Reviewing 150 cards daily will obviously take longer than reviewing 50 cards.

 

[PL198]

The time commitment with a pre-made deck depends on the limit you set on reviewing cards. Reviewing 150 cards daily will obviously take longer than reviewing 50 cards.

I'm pretty sure theres a step 1 deck that is 6500 cards and I'm not familiar with the timing intervals anki uses, but what would be an adequate amount of cards to go over daily to ensure one would be able to go over new ones and keep up with all the old ones assuming reasonable comprehension so that I'm not hitting the tomorrow interval for every card or anything like that? Guessing 250ish, is that reasonable? how long would that take, just complete ballparks, I understand there's a large variance person to person

 

[PL198]

I wasn't all that different than what you're describing for the first two years, honestly. For whatever reason, I was always really uncomfortable not knowing every single detail. I realize this probably wasn't completely necessary, but I don't regret it a bit in hindsight. I did fantastically during M1/M2, and that provided me with a ton of momentum heading into M3. Most of the stuff I was pimped on early on in third year was preclinical minutiae.

It also helped me establish a pattern of successful studying. The only downside is that it might be difficult for someone to streamline their studying habits after experiencing success with a more tedious approach.

Either way, I'm exactly where I want to be now. That's what matters to me.

crap this seems intriguing. it seems like it would take a significant amount of time to put every word into anki cards though?

 

[Laufcra]

crap this seems intriguing. it seems like it would take a significant amount of time to put every word into anki cards though?

Yes it does. I started at around 9 this morning and I'm now making cards for the last chapter for the day. After I finish, I'll stream the lecture @ 1.5X. While formulating the material into questions you are also learning the material, and it pays off later because I can repeat the deck quickly at a later date and more reps=higher exam score to an extent.

 

[TheRobin]

I'm pretty sure theres a step 1 deck that is 6500 cards and I'm not familiar with the timing intervals anki uses, but what would be an adequate amount of cards to go over daily to ensure one would be able to go over new ones and keep up with all the old ones assuming reasonable comprehension so that I'm not hitting the tomorrow interval for every card or anything like that? Guessing 250ish, is that reasonable? how long would that take, just complete ballparks, I understand there's a large variance person to person

Tough to say, but maybe @Rik1111 or other Anki enthusiasts can help you out. Anecdotally, I once crammed around 200 new cards in 4.5 hours, but like you said there is a great amount of variance from one student to another.

 

[Pacna]

I'm pretty sure theres a step 1 deck that is 6500 cards and I'm not familiar with the timing intervals anki uses, but what would be an adequate amount of cards to go over daily to ensure one would be able to go over new ones and keep up with all the old ones assuming reasonable comprehension so that I'm not hitting the tomorrow interval for every card or anything like that? Guessing 250ish, is that reasonable? how long would that take, just complete ballparks, I understand there's a large variance person to person

I tried that method (pre-made step 1 anki decks), and I just couldn't handle how different other peoples' cards were from how I learned the material. If you really want to use them, try with 5-10 per day. It sounds like nothing, but you have to be able to put the material in context for it to do you any good. Remembering "p28 = PDGF B-chain" does you no good if you don't know what that means. Learning 5 new step 1 cards per day (at the start of M1) took me ~10 minutes per card. That's a LOT of time studying daily for something that gives you no real immediate reward; it's hard to maintain.

As far as doing your own cards/cards that are made by people in your class, I usually allot 1 minute per new card and 30 seconds per review. Usually I'm faster, but sometimes not, so I think it's good to budget time conservatively. So if you think of it that way, 6500 new cards of things that you already learned (but haven't Anki'd yet) should take you ~108 hours. If you spaced that over 3 months, that'd be just over an hour a day. Not advisable.

I aim to do ~20 "retired" cards per day (old exams/things that I will not be tested on) and ~3 hours of **** I have to know in the immediate future.

Just my $0.02. 🙂

 

[PL198]

Yes it does. I started at around 9 this morning and I'm now making cards for the last chapter for the day. After I finish, I'll stream the lecture @ 1.5X. While formulating the material into questions you are also learning the material, and it pays off later because I can repeat the deck quickly at a later date and more reps=higher exam score to an extent.

Do you do this for solely the lecture material or do you also do assigned readings? I think I might play around with anki a bit tonight.

 

[Laufcra]

Do you do this for solely the lecture material or do you also do assigned readings? I think I might play around with anki a bit tonight.

I do this for the assigned readings, which are PDFs written by the professors (~200 pages per exam). I finish that, and then around 5pm I add more cards to that deck based on things the professor says in the lecture capture/the powerpoint that isn't found in the PDF. I do it this way so that lecture's deck (I make a subdeck for each lecture) has complete coverage of everything in the PDF/powerpoint/what the professor says. Like GuyWhoDoesStuff said previously, it just doesn't feel right to not get every detail despite that it probably isn't necessary to score well.

 

[seminoma]

I do this for the assigned readings, which are PDFs written by the professors (~200 pages per exam). I finish that, and then around 5pm I add more cards to that deck based on things the professor says in the lecture capture/the powerpoint that isn't found in the PDF. I do it this way so that lecture's deck (I make a subdeck for each lecture) has complete coverage of everything in the PDF/powerpoint/what the professor says. Like GuyWhoDoesStuff said previously, it just doesn't feel right to not get every detail despite that it probably isn't necessary to score well.

Interesting concept. I haven't read all your posts, but are you doing this as an MS2?

 

[Laufcra]

Interesting concept. I haven't read all your posts, but are you doing this as an MS2?

I'm a first year, I don't know whether or not it will be sustainable next year I'll have to wait and see

 

[DermViser]

I'm a first year, I don't know whether or not it will be sustainable next year I'll have to wait and see

Likely not. Unless you make the Anki Decks way beforehand. Maybe during your MS-1 summer?

 

[TheRobin]

Yes it does. I started at around 9 this morning and I'm now making cards for the last chapter for the day. After I finish, I'll stream the lecture @ 1.5X. While formulating the material into questions you are also learning the material, and it pays off later because I can repeat the deck quickly at a later date and more reps=higher exam score to an extent.

Laufcra, do you try to review the cards the same day that you make them?

 

[Laufcra]

Laufcra, do you try to review the cards the same day that you make them?

Yeah I get through the deck the day I make it and then the whole week's cards that Saturday and then review previous weeks Sunday.

 

[Laufcra]

Likely not. Unless you make the Anki Decks way beforehand. Maybe during your MS-1 summer?

I could do something like that if I were able to get a hold of the 2nd year PDFs. I'm guessing my summer will be mostly spent doing research though. Do many people pre-study during MS-1 summer?

 

[DermViser]

I could do something like that if I were able to get a hold of the 2nd year PDFs. I'm guessing my summer will be mostly spent doing research though. Do many people pre-study during MS-1 summer?

I'm sure an upperclassmen would be happy to give you the PDF files for their year. I was referring to just copying and pasting text from the PDFs onto cards. Research during MS-1 usually is not an 80 hr. work week job depending on the project and your PI.

 

[Laufcra]

I'm sure an upperclassmen would be happy to give you the PDF files for their year. I was referring to just copying and pasting text from the PDFs onto cards. Research during MS-1 usually is not an 80 hr. work week job depending on the project and your PI.

Usually I read a short part, understand it, and formulate the material into a specific question. Its while writing these questions that I think the majority of my actual studying/understanding is done(time consuming). Once I have the cards, I can then burn through the deck quickly (because they are cards that I wrote/remember) 3 or 4 times before the exam. I don't know that copy/pasting would do it for me. I would like to pre-study along with research, but I think I'd get judged pretty hard by the 2nd years for asking. I definitely would not want anyone in my class to know about it either due to the judginess.

 

[DermViser]

Usually I read a short part, understand it, and formulate the material into a specific question. Its while writing these questions that I think the majority of my actual studying/understanding is done(time consuming). Once I have the cards, I can then burn through the deck quickly (because they are cards that I wrote/remember) 3 or 4 times before the exam. I don't know that copy/pasting would do it for me. I would like to pre-study along with research, but I think I'd get judged pretty hard by the 2nd years for asking. I definitely would not want anyone in my class to know about it either due to the judginess.

Yeah, it depends on whether you have an upperclassman/woman who would be understanding and quiet enough and it's kind of early now since it's just a few months into MS-1 so u might be in a better position to ask near the end of MS-1. That being said you can always say that the cards take so long to make hence why you need extra time to make them when MS-1 summer hits, since your MS-2 is graded unlike now. The competitive feelings will start to increase thru the class anyways once MS-1 is over.

 

[Laufcra]

Yeah, it depends on whether you have an upperclassman/woman who would be understanding and quiet enough and it's kind of early now since it's just a few months into MS-1 so u might be in a better position to ask near the end of MS-1. That being said you can always say that the cards take so long to make hence why you need extra time to make them when MS-1 summer hits, since your MS-2 is graded unlike now. The competitive feelings will start to increase thru the class anyways once MS-1 is over.

True. Side note, anki is awesome because I can make my cards then study them on my phone while in the bath. Like right now lol.

 

[seminoma]

I'm a first year, I don't know whether or not it will be sustainable next year I'll have to wait and see

Yeah, concur with @DermViser .. probably won't have enough time to do that during MS2. Glad it's working for MS1 though.

 

[username456789]

Yeah, concur with @DermViser .. probably won't have enough time to do that during MS2. Glad it's working for MS1 though.

I didn't have anki in med school. I made all my flashcards on actual notecards. In the snow, uphill both ways.

I kept it up in M2. At the end of 2nd year I filled a huge trash bag with thousands of cards in rubber banded stacks.