Interested in D.O. school BUT.....

[Btemp687]

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Ive completed 4 yrs of undergrad but dont have a bachelors to show for it. I have 115 credits. My gpa is probably a 2.7 now. Organic chem kicked my *** and last semester was the icing on the cake. (pharmocology,biochem,anatomy2,pathology,theology of healthcare,metaphysics(philosophy) ) those were my classes last semester. I was a p.a. major. Now im taking classes over. Im taking bio 1and 2 over at a community college. And about to start preparing for mcats. What advice is there for me? Ive worked in a hospital setting for 3 years now. I know and seen a great deal just from being in this environment. I even got 2 see an autopsy, endoscopy,chest tube placement, central lines, catherization,ect. Im serious about medicine. Anyone in this situation?

 

[jrf331]

Ive completed 4 yrs of undergrad but dont have a bachelors to show for it. I have 115 credits. My gpa is probably a 2.7 now. Organic chem kicked my *** and last semester was the icing on the cake. (pharmocology,biochem,anatomy2,pathology,theology of healthcare,metaphysics(philosophy) ) those were my classes last semester. I was a p.a. major. Now im taking classes over. Im taking bio 1and 2 over at a community college. And about to start preparing for mcats. What advice is there for me? Ive worked in a hospital setting for 3 years now. I know and seen a great deal just from being in this environment. I even got 2 see an autopsy, endoscopy,chest tube placement, central lines, catherization,ect. Im serious about medicine. Anyone in this situation?

As an MSIII my Advise--get serious about school. 2.7 wont get you anywhere; Not even into a poor nursing school. Unless your major requires you to take Path, anatomy, or pharm you don't need to take them. NO medical school requires it and you get it all in med school anyway. Get a list of prereqs, focus on completing a degree, and retake enough science classes to bring your GPA up significantly. Most schools wont execpt anything below a C in any prereq class. SO you may need to retake O-chem if you really did that bad in it.

Work experience is good but it is the GPA and MCAT score that schools see first.

 

[jigglyboo]

Sounds like you're spreading yourself thin.
1st off, if you have a low gpa... you'll want a High mcat to show or vice versa.
Even though your grades are weak, i'm asssuming you still have time to bring it up. Are you overlapping your mcat prep with school? If so, I would advise against that, unless you're taking an easy load with school. Preparing for the mcat takes alot: emotionally, physically, and mentally. And that may take a toll on your studies. You can always take the MCAT a second time b/ not so easy re-doing your classes, especially with the costs. Right now, you're borderline of the minimum gpa requirement of some schools.

I think you're still competitive as a candidate with experience to show for it. I would personally try focusing on your studies to bring up the gpa. I hope this answers your questions and of some help. Remember don't rush yourself to get in, you wanna build as much of a good profile as much as you can. So play it smart and good luck!😀

 

[Btemp687]

As an MSIII my Advise--get serious about school. 2.7 wont get you anywhere; Not even into a poor nursing school. Unless your major requires you to take Path, anatomy, or pharm you don't need to take them. NO medical school requires it and you get it all in med school anyway. Get a list of prereqs, focus on completing a degree, and retake enough science classes to bring your GPA up significantly. Most schools wont execpt anything below a C in any prereq class. SO you may need to retake O-chem if you really did that bad in it.

Work experience is good but it is the GPA and MCAT score that schools see first.

Yep... the requirement for the p.a. program was to take all of these classes. I know what I need to take for d.o. school. I definately need to take over organic. I also need to take physics. Im taking bio 1 and 2 over now. Its rediculously easy. Its all a review so im looking at 2 a's. As far as a degree, I went back up to school (since im not registered now) and it would take another year to complete a degree in bio. Would taking higher level bio classes be an advantage gpa wise? My lowest grades have been a D in orgo, failed pharm, c n path, c+ in a&p 2. Last semester was a killer in the progam, and i made waiting list for the clinicals. Time to move on. All of this is while working damn near full time. You think that schools will take into consideration that I have been working non stop throughout my college career?

 

[Btemp687]

Oh yea... I may have to rethink how I study for these classes. It really didnt help trying to understand everything and try to put into context with things I see in the hospital. I might as well memorize everything now and Understand it in D.O. school.

 

[mshheaddoc]

As far as a degree, I went back up to school (since im not registered now) and it would take another year to complete a degree in bio. Would taking higher level bio classes be an advantage gpa wise? My lowest grades have been a D in orgo, failed pharm, c n path, c+ in a&p 2. Last semester was a killer in the progam, and i made waiting list for the clinicals. Time to move on. All of this is while working damn near full time. You think that schools will take into consideration that I have been working non stop throughout my college career?

#1 - something has to give. Yes schools realize (or will realize) that you had to work full time but if that is the case then the course load has to ease.

#2 - retake classes. Retake all the classes you did bad in. This will help your GPA ALOT especially with what you listed.

#3 - Upper level bio classes will look GREAT if you do well in them. ONLY if you do well in them. Additionally it will help boost your GPA. Also take other "fluff classes" with your hard classes to fill out your schedule if need be. This will help raise your gpa. Not everyone in college takes 3-4 science classes every semester.

#4 - think about why you are switching from PA to DO. think about why you didn't do well (as you stated you have to change studying habits).

It is possible but you have to really put the effort into it. You are looking at a few years worth of work. At least a year or two in my opinion. Grades DO matter and although a high MCAT can offset things, as you stated, if you don't understand the material you aren't going to do well in the class. Then that doesn't leave you much of a shot for the MCAT either.

If you have to work then I suggest reducing the course load and stretch it out. You'll hear time and time again on these boards. Medical school is not a sprint. Its a marathon. If you are looking for a quick fix to get into med school, its not gonna happen for you.

 

[Btemp687]

#1 - something has to give. Yes schools realize (or will realize) that you had to work full time but if that is the case then the course load has to ease.

#2 - retake classes. Retake all the classes you did bad in. This will help your GPA ALOT especially with what you listed.

#3 - Upper level bio classes will look GREAT if you do well in them. ONLY if you do well in them. Additionally it will help boost your GPA. Also take other "fluff classes" with your hard classes to fill out your schedule if need be. This will help raise your gpa. Not everyone in college takes 3-4 science classes every semester.

#4 - think about why you are switching from PA to DO. think about why you didn't do well (as you stated you have to change studying habits).

It is possible but you have to really put the effort into it. You are looking at a few years worth of work. At least a year or two in my opinion. Grades DO matter and although a high MCAT can offset things, as you stated, if you don't understand the material you aren't going to do well in the class. Then that doesn't leave you much of a shot for the MCAT either.

If you have to work then I suggest reducing the course load and stretch it out. You'll hear time and time again on these boards. Medical school is not a sprint. Its a marathon. If you are looking for a quick fix to get into med school, its not gonna happen for you.

Ahhhh... Yea I think im kinda rushing it. I feel pressed by the folks to complete something. P.A. would still be a good foot in the door if I still can go that route. (experience wise) I will turn it down a notch and accept the fact that its gonna take a could years. Im only 21 so I got time. As far as the classes, when i was at St. Johns doing pre reqs for the p.a. program I was taking atleast 3 sciences with labs along with "fluff" classes to fufill the university core. Also while working. Last fall i took Anatomy 1 with lab, micro with lab and orgo with lab. and christian marriage. b-,b,d,a were the grades. Then last semester I had path,biochem,anatomy2,pharm,philosophy,theology of healthcare. c,drop,c+,f,B+,A- All i can say is i tried. Im leaning towards completing that bio degree if I dont get into any pa schools come january. If need be, ill fluff it out and get my gpa up to atleast a 3 again. By the way, my gpa was a 2.94 wen i applied to pa school. A 3.0 was preferred. .6 away....

 

[Btemp687]

Im switching from pa to do becaus the philosophy attacts me more to it. The science of medicine is still there, but the concept on treating the body as a whole is more useful than just treating diseases in parts. Plus the hands on manipulative approach is where I see myself. (even though not all d.o.'s practice that) I need to be hands on, I hate paperwork.

 

[630670]

your mcat can make up for your GPA a little bit, but only up to a certain extent.

You have to raise your GPA. Involve yourself in extracurricular activities

1. GPA
2. MCAT
3. Extracurriculuras

 

[mshheaddoc]

I need to be hands on, I hate paperwork.

If you hate paperwork this might not be the right profession for you 😉 Charts, charts, and more charts. And documentation. And responsibility of all types. You will have paperwork no matter what profession you have. OMM won't escape that.

 

[Btemp687]

Lol I know its alot of paperwork, But seeing these attending internists here 24/7 makes me sick. Im leaning towards a surgical discipline. I definately know what to say when on the interview, but I keep things in the back of my mind.


As far as the mcats, I was thinking of reviewing a little while takin the class. For example im taking over bio, so I want to review it while im taking the class. Same for orgo, and physics. Then when I finish hit it hard. Just a thought.

 

[fahimaz7]

And about to start preparing for mcats.

There's only one test. It's called the MCAT.

Scott

 

[Btemp687]

I know its one test.... I put the s on by mistake.

Question, should I transfer and start with a new gpa? Or finish up at st johns.

#2, what classes would be able to fluff my gpa up?

 

[mshheaddoc]

transferring with a "new" gpa makes NO difference whatsoever.

In the end its all computed together no matter how many schools you've attended.

 

[chancer]

My advice would be, take some time away from school and get re-energized.

2.7 isn't the greatest. Let's face it. But, all is not lost.

You took some pretty hard classes all at once. Maybe next time you should take 2 hard classes and two easier ones.

Try to finish you bachelors if you can. If it were me, I would raise my gpa a bit, by taking an A&P class, and maybe a microbiology or something. THEN, I would apply nationwide to a masters program for PA.

Work as a PA for a few years, meanwhile re-taking some of the harder classes and then re-apply.

All is not lost, you just have to take a longer road to get there.

Good Luck.

 

[Btemp687]

I took micro.. got a b. took a&p 1 got a b-, a&p 2 c+ and no lab for a&p 2

Thats how the program was set up with all those classes at once. The classes were not hard but they wanted us to know so much! Like for the anatomy final it was 100 questions all cumulative which was like 20 something chaptes. To top it off they where scenario type questions. Like those found on board re-certification exams. If a 50y.o. male has......

I got a better idea of the route I need to take. One thing has to give and its work. I wish i could stop working, its not like its a necessity, but i need money for food,bills,gas,ect

1st step... finish my bio classes im taking now and re apply 2 pa skools.

 

[chancer]

Yeah, I know what you mean about the memorization. I know a lot of people take the harder classes like that in the summer and only take it one at a time.

Work sucks. I don't think I could get A's and have to work full time.

There are options out there though if money is an issue. I would still go the PA route though.

Peace corp pays back 15% of your loans a year. Two years, 30% of your Gov. loans disappear.

And on the opposite end of the spectrum, the military will pay back nearly all your loans and will more than likely pay for your PA school. However, only go in as an officer, and if you go into the military prepare to lose part of yourself. (figuratively, and possibly literally)

KBR pays 80-120k tax free if you want to go to Iraq or Afghanstan as a contractor. www.civiliancontractorjobs.com

Otherwise, like I said I would go the PA route, another 60k probably in debt however.

But you leave school making about 70-80k a year. Do that for five years, paying 1000k a month and the 60k will be paid off.


Live like a monk and put 2k down, and undergraduate and graduate loans should be taken care of. And by then you are ready for med school as you will be a bit older with experience. Better chance at acceptance if your gpa isn't the highest.

 

[Krazykritter]

One very important thing for you to realize....

Retaking classes you did poorly in is a good idea, but NOT AT A COMMUNITY COLLEGE. Many adcoms/interviewers know, in general, how much easier it is at a ju-co. You need to prove that you can handle the material at a high level & a ju-co isn't the setting to do this. If you need to take a few pre-req's at a CC in the summer...fine, but retaking classes you did poorly in just looks bad on your application.

By the way...most schools have a minimum or 2.75 to get secondaries (I believe) but many are at 3.0 (DMU & a few others).

 

[jrf331]

You think that schools will take into consideration that I have been working non stop throughout my college career?

Yes they will consider that, you are not the only one to work full time during undergrad; there are many of us that did that. But admins will also see that you can't handle a stressed, full schedule based on the grades you got while working. YOu have to cut back on your work, and focus more on school.

It is hard and something always has to give. I am just saying that the present job should be the one to give and not your studies

 

[Miami_med]

You should stop and ask why you are doing so poorly. You are not the only one who worked in school. You need to evaluate whether you think that the academic workload of medical school is for you. Medical school will be more difficult than undergrad. You will need to identifiy your weaknesses and make sure that they are correctable.

Remember, there are a lot of ways to work in medicine. SDN is full of cheerleaders, but the reality is, that a 2.7 is rough. If you re-take your classes, you will need As. Bs will not do it the second time through. I agree with another poster that time off would be a good idea. Make sure you know what you want.

Whatever you choose, good luck.

 

[snowkhat]

So there is some really good advice here. I would listen to these guys.

I think you sabotaged yourself by working and taking so many hours. I don't think I know anyone who works full-time and is in a PA or nursing program. It was kind of a bad idea.

If you are serious about medical school, make your preparation a full-time job.

Moreover, the admissions committees will ask you why not PA? Why couldn't you handle the PA program, etc.? PA programs can be quite similar to MD/DO classes (sometimes are the same) so this may concern the admin committees.

Get a degree that you really want...something you enjoy and you will succeed. I think you have some re-evaluating to do.

If you rock the MCAT and bring up those grades a bit, you will be fine.

 

[stockmanjr]

One very important thing for you to realize....

Retaking classes you did poorly in is a good idea, but NOT AT A COMMUNITY COLLEGE. Many adcoms/interviewers know, in general, how much easier it is at a ju-co. You need to prove that you can handle the material at a high level & a ju-co isn't the setting to do this. If you need to take a few pre-req's at a CC in the summer...fine, but retaking classes you did poorly in just looks bad on your application.

By the way...most schools have a minimum or 2.75 to get secondaries (I believe) but many are at 3.0 (DMU & a few others).

Why the big deal about a CC..I'm retaking my only bad grade bio 1 at a CC since it was all I could afford and trust me it's no cakewalk..However I will do well in it since the professor actually tests us fairly unlike at my 4 yr school where the professor tested us on material that was neither in the textbook nor in her lectures! I also have some of the hardest working kids I've ever seen in my class.
Cheers
howie
Ps.I already have my BA from my 4 yr school and $800/credit versus $160/credit made my decsion easy..

 

[Krazykritter]

Stockman,

Your situation is totally different than that of the OP. One class at a CC is most definitely not going to hurt anyone who has a degree from a four-year institution. However, taking pre-reqs for the first time when still enrolled in a four-year institution looks (on paper) like someone is just trying to bump up their GPA. If you ever get a chance to see the completed file by being a student interviewer (if your school does this) you will see what I mean.

 

[Btemp687]

Im only taking over bio 1 and 2 at Nassu Cc. Mainly becuase its cheaper 1300 as opposed to 6gs at Sju. Also the bios at university didnt have labs, and no one is allowed to retake classes unless they fail them which i didnt. So its just 2 classes with labs and its pretty easy. 4 tests each not 1 midterm, 1 final. Thats bs.

I forgot to mention, 2.7 is at st johns. I had a 3.3 at morehouse college before i transferred.

 

[LINYKid]

thats funny since im taking some classes at nassau also. i have a business degree from hofstra and some rgaduate biz credits from fordham, i spoke to my top choice for do schools who said it wasnt a problem taking my prereqs (post-baac) at a cc but check w/ each school. i wasnt gonna pay 2000 a class at hofstra and while i wanted to do a 4yr school due to some medical and personal reasons nassau worked best for me.

the only thing is the op needs to know how to answer why they switched from pa to do and need to be able to answer it properly and showing positive numbers i.e. grades, test scores etc