farrago

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Time for a witch hunt. Teach those students some "sensitivity"!
 
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"== Former Patients Stunned =="

What a freaking joke. I hope things turn out alright for the med students.
 
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eli20

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I agree. It's completely inappropriate and I really don't understand how no one involved didn't figure that out long before it was performed/posted online.

However, the problem isn't limited to these particular students at a particular medical school - these attitudes are a pervasive aspect of our general society, but especially the privileged class that makes up the majority of physician ranks.

This isn't about sensitivity and diversity training, this is about being a decent human being...
 

getdown

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God, what ridiculous BS. That video was meant for other med students to parody things and unwind. The term "acting professional" that people love to throw around only applies to when you're with the patient and possibly out in public. This was an internal event... if you can't unwind with your friends, when the hell can you unwind after seeing death and pain and suffering 12 hours a day? The problem was that it was posted online and a bunch of "sensitive" people got offended. If you think that only "insensitive and unprofessional" people say offensive things, you've never been to the doctor's or resident's lounges in hospital. One last point, just because something is offensive doesn't make it less true. When did it happen that stating something that's true gets you in trouble? That's like fat people getting all up in arms for getting charged 2 seats when they get on a plane. Hey, how bout you lose some weight? Ever think about that?
 

eli20

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Meant for other students to parody and unwind? By making large elitist and classed assumptions about Hispanic people? Blaming entire ethnic groups for their economic standing in America? Stating a belief that poor people are entitled to a lesser standard of care?

I'm sorry but it's not funny - and its not because it is unprofessional. The entire performance is unconscionable.
 

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I agree. It's completely inappropriate and I really don't understand how no one involved didn't figure that out long before it was performed/posted online.

However, the problem isn't limited to these particular students at a particular medical school - these attitudes are a pervasive aspect of our general society, but especially the privileged class that makes up the majority of physician ranks.
Agreed. The video was disrespectful, but it was just a symptom of a larger problem...
 

getdown

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yes, cause always being politically correct and never offending anyone or saying anything offensive is the only way you can be a wonderful human being. Yes, it was offensive and it shouldn't have been posted but whatever happened to freedom of speech?
 

CaptainSSO

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yes, cause always being politically correct and never offending anyone or saying anything offensive is the only way you can be a wonderful human being. Yes, it was offensive and it shouldn't have been posted but whatever happened to freedom of speech?
What exactly is your point? That everyone should belittle and talk down to each other? What are you trying to defend here? Free speech is to ensure the government doesn't stifle opinions, not to allow people to treat others like trash (But, free speech isn't even the issue here. It wasn't illegal what they did--just trashy).
 

BadHorse

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Meant for other students to parody and unwind? By making large elitist and classed assumptions about Hispanic people? Blaming entire ethnic groups for their economic standing in America? Stating a belief that poor people are entitled to a lesser standard of care?

I'm sorry but it's not funny - and its not because it is unprofessional. The entire performance is unconscionable.

Capitalism 101: Poor people ARE only entitled to a lower standard of care. Welcome to America.

Unless you're a socialist, you're a hypocrite.
 

CaptainSSO

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Capitalism 101: Poor people ARE only entitled to a lower standard of care. Welcome to America.

Unless you're a socialist, you're a hypocrite.
You're an awesome human being--thanks for reminding me why I was avoiding this place. And, nice job trying to pigeon-hole him into being a hypocrite; the world is not so black and white, and one just because a person has socialist leanings on a particular issue doesn't make them a default socialist.
 

getdown

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What exactly is your point? That everyone should belittle and talk down to each other? What are you trying to defend here? Free speech is to ensure the government doesn't stifle opinions, not to allow people to treat others like trash (But, free speech isn't even the issue here. It wasn't illegal what they did--just trashy).

Exactly, what these kids did was not illegal and so they shouldn't be getting all the grief they're getting. My point is, since you asked, is that society now has gotten so obsessed with political correctness that you can barely walk outside and say something without offending someone. Was it stupid to post this online? Yes. Was it wrong? No.
 

Morzh

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I don't see what the big deal is. Yeah its probably dumb to post that online in today's uber-PC world, but the song rings true.

At the hospital I work at it's the same story... same kind of people. Nobody has anything less than compassion for legitimately poor, struggling people in unfortunate situations. But they are in the minority, sadly. What we are against are the entitlement-minded, demand-the-world-but-contribute-nothing, disrespectful moochers of society that love to take advantage of the fact that our government subsidizes being poor and lazy (extinguishing any motivation for them to change).

Everyone in the public services - be it police, fire/rescue, medical, etc. - deals with the scum of society much more frequently than most people. You can't blame them for being a little cynical about them. But most people know when the scumbags stop and the real people in need begin, and with them they are not cynical but consider it a privilege to serve because that's what they imagined doing when they entered their career.
 
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BadHorse

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You're an awesome human being--thanks for reminding me why I was avoiding this place. And, nice job trying to pigeon-hole him into being a hypocrite; the world is not so black and white, and one just because a person has socialist leanings on a particular issue doesn't make them a default socialist.

Completely missed the point of my post, I believe in socialized medicine. I'm just sayin' the med students are expressing the majority opinion in a capitalist society.

Totally agree that I'm an awesome human being, though.
 

CaptainSSO

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Completely missed the point of my post, I believe in socialized medicine. I'm just sayin' the med students are expressing the majority opinion in a capitalist society.

Totally agree that I'm an awesome human being, though.
Didn't process the "Capitalism 101" part...
 

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Nobody has anything less than compassion for legitimately poor, struggling people in unfortunate situations. But they are in the minority, sadly. What we are against are the entitlement-minded, demand-the-world-but-contribute-nothing, disrespectful moochers of society that love to take advantage of the fact that our government subsidizes being poor and lazy (extinguishing any motivation for them to change).

Everyone in the public services - be it police, fire/rescue, medical, etc. - deals with the scum of society much more frequently than most people. You can't blame them for being a little cynical about them. But most people know when the scumbags stop and the real people in need begin, and with them they are not cynical but consider it a privilege to serve because that's what they imagined doing when they entered their career.
:thumbup:
 

startswithb

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I don't see what the big deal is. Yeah its probably dumb to post that online in today's uber-PC world, but the song rings true.

At the hospital I work at it's the same story... same kind of people. Nobody has anything less than compassion for legitimately poor, struggling people in unfortunate situations. But they are in the minority, sadly. What we are against are the entitlement-minded, demand-the-world-but-contribute-nothing, disrespectful moochers of society that love to take advantage of the fact that our government subsidizes being poor and lazy (extinguishing any motivation for them to change).

Everyone in the public services - be it police, fire/rescue, medical, etc. - deals with the scum of society much more frequently than most people. You can't blame them for being a little cynical about them. But most people know when the scumbags stop and the real people in need begin, and with them they are not cynical but consider it a privilege to serve because that's what they imagined doing when they entered their career.
Well said.
 

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The video is simply ugly. getdown, this "unwinding" we get to see is neither interesting nor positive. Personally, after seeing death and pain and suffering for 12 hours, the last thing I'd want to do is lampoon my patients in a drunken dance-off.

I suppose different strokes for different folks?

Regardless, it seems these "damn good med students" aren't sharp enough to have learned the 21st century rule- do anything in a sufficiently large, wired group and it will appear on Youtube.
 
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Can I just chime in and say I thought it was pretty funny or will I be condemned as a racist?

Haha I thought it was funny too, but definitely not the best idea to make a video of, for sure. It was really stupid to let this video get out

The whole scum of society comment above was a bit over-the-top but w/e. Embarrassing that it got 2 thumbsup replies

Honestly, med students are ALWAYS joking about how they get to practice/make mistakes on people without insurance more than on people with private insurance...that's what the song is about more than racism or ragging on poor patients for mooching off the government. wtf, calm down please, crazies on both sides
 

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Oh, this makes me sad to see people make such a big deal out of this. I agree that it wasn't the brightest idea to post this on the internet where the public could see it. But the quote at the end is true... the parody was "out of love." Baylor students take a lot of pride in having the opportunity to rotate at Ben Taub and it is a true asset to our education. We work very hard to serve the patients there and always treat them with the utmost respect. I'm sure any medical student that rotates at a big county hospital (i.e Parkland, Jackson Memorial, Grady, and those that once rotated at Charity) understands where the humor is in this video. It is honestly not meant to mock the patients or their social status as a whole. It is a parody of those situations/patients that Morzh alluded to as well as the other crazy encounters that happen to occur more often at a county hospital... i.e. the awkwardness of delivering a baby to a 16 year old girl while her 22 year old "husband" (who is really not married to her) is sitting in the room. Or the craziness of a pt who is being wheeled up to the OR because his intestines are hanging out after being stabbed... and he just looks at you and says "this is some crazy ****" because he's too high to know what's going on. The awkwardness of trying to interview a patient in a different language based on a few choice medical phrases you've learned because all the interpreters are busy and there are 65 patients to see in clinic that afternoon. Or trying to interview a patient one bed over from the guy hopped up on PCP who's yelling and screaming about how he met Kanye West today and how he should get a private jet too. Clinicals are a crazy time for some, and this was just our way to make light and laugh about all the crazy stuff we experience. I don't expect outsiders to get it, but I just hope they understand that it does not come from a place of disrespect or malice.


(note: patient scenarios have been altered as to not reveal any identifying information... you know... gotta make sure I don't violate any HIPAA rules :)
 
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It's so weird that the general public doesn't have tons of respect for doctors. :rolleyes:

And yes, these are just the bad apples, but the fact that people are defending them in this thread is quite telling.
 

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What we are against are the entitlement-minded...disrespectful moochers of society that love to take advantage of the fact that our government subsidizes...
your education.

The most "entitlement-minded" people I have regular contact with are the other posters here on SDN. You who go around accusing others of feeling "entitled" need to STFU and learn a few things about the way the world works. And while you're at it, google "psychological projection".

'nuff said.
 

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damn cant do anything anymore because it will end up reaching thousands of viewers through youtube, and of course someone always ought to get offended.

I would have laughed my ass off along with the entire audiance, then act in a professional manner when im actually in a setting which calls for it. Doesnt mean everyone in the audience is going to be bad insensitive doctors.
 

alwaysaangel

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Whoever thought posting that on youtube was a good idea was an idiot.

Otherwise, its not a big deal. It was funny, true to form, and a decent parody of a med student working in a county facility. Its not elitist, it wasn't mocking hispanic patients - it was mocking the healthcare system and medical education. County facilities allow med students to do insane stuff - great learning experience. But sucks for the (usually uninsured) patients.

It was not trying to be disrespectful to patients at all. And no one is saying is "right" that its that way. Or that the patients "deserve" substandard care because they have no insurance. However, it IS the reality. There are two levels of healthcare in this country and there is a wide margin between them.

Medicine is crass and cynical. You cannot survive medicine without a sense of humor and a doctor's sense of humor is dark. All the premeds here - come back in a few years when you're about done with your 3rd year and watch it again. You'll laugh.

Is it right? Not necessarily. But its the nature of healthcare. Few people not there understand it and most of us are well aware our sense of humor would not be well accepted by the public.

Which brings us back to my original point - it should have never been posted on youtube. I feel bad for the students who are going to get in trouble for something that the dean of students was probably there laughing at.
 

farrago

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your education.

The most "entitlement-minded" people I have regular contact with are the other posters here on SDN. You who go around accusing others of feeling "entitled" need to STFU and learn a few things about the way the world works. And while you're at it, google "psychological projection".

'nuff said.

Uh, yeah, and then we will subsidize the government right back in the taxes that we will pay on our salaries...

So, you want to talk about who is subsidizing whom?

I don't mind physicians being held to a high standard, but maybe other members of society should also be held to some sort of standard, too, once in a while? You're 17 and pregnant with your fourth child? You're fair game for parody and scorn, in my book...
 
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It's amusing seeing all the self righteous premeds berating med students. Save your rainbow and unicorn crap for your interviews.
 

LuciusVorenus

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I don't understand why this is offensive? Everything they said in the video was true. It was kind of a good satire of how we treat uninsured patients.
 

apumic

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QUOTE=getdown;10860655]God, what ridiculous BS. That video was meant for other med students to parody things and unwind. The term "acting professional" that people love to throw around only applies to when you're with the patient and possibly out in public. This was an internal event... if you can't unwind with your friends, when the hell can you unwind after seeing death and pain and suffering 12 hours a day? The problem was that it was posted online and a bunch of "sensitive" people got offended. If you think that only "insensitive and unprofessional" people say offensive things, you've never been to the doctor's or resident's lounges in hospital. One last point, just because something is offensive doesn't make it less true. When did it happen that stating something that's true gets you in trouble? That's like fat people getting all up in arms for getting charged 2 seats when they get on a plane. Hey, how bout you lose some weight? Ever think about that?[/QUOTE]



Whoever thought posting that on youtube was a good idea was an idiot.

Otherwise, its not a big deal. It was funny, true to form, and a decent parody of a med student working in a county facility. Its not elitist, it wasn't mocking hispanic patients - it was mocking the healthcare system and medical education. County facilities allow med students to do insane stuff - great learning experience. But sucks for the (usually uninsured) patients.

It was not trying to be disrespectful to patients at all. And no one is saying is "right" that its that way. Or that the patients "deserve" substandard care because they have no insurance. However, it IS the reality. There are two levels of healthcare in this country and there is a wide margin between them.

Medicine is crass and cynical. You cannot survive medicine without a sense of humor and a doctor's sense of humor is dark. All the premeds here - come back in a few years when you're about done with your 3rd year and watch it again. You'll laugh.

Is it right? Not necessarily. But its the nature of healthcare. Few people not there understand it and most of us are well aware our sense of humor would not be well accepted by the public.

Which brings us back to my original point - it should have never been posted on youtube. I feel bad for the students who are going to get in trouble for something that the dean of students was probably there laughing at.

I have to agree with you guys here. Honestly, when I watched it, my first thoughts were, "I can actually relate to this" and "I could almost see showing it to someone in the lounge at work in private." No, I would never have posted such a thing online or let my patients know that sometimes we feel abused as healthcare workers and professionals, but honestly, you do. These students were simply letting off some steam. They just made the all-too-stupid mistake of posting it online. The fact is, though, that it may not even have been someone involved in the performance that posted it. It could have been some other Baylor student who just found it funny and didn't think about the consequences of posting it.
 

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You know there is a reason inside jokes are meant to be private...

Post it on youtube for the whole world to see?

Expect to be criticized.

To think otherwise is quite naive.
 

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Med students need to realize that as future doctors you will always be held accountable for your actions whether in the hospital or a local barbecue. It is unfortunate that this is the case for those of us who are in the field of medicine since we are always on the spotlight.

e.g. go to a local bbq, see the local fireman ****faced, ah w.e., see the big shot lawyer/businessman ****faced... ahh just another happy hour event that he does during the week..... see your physician ****faced......eeerrrrrrrrr not so cool. This is what physicians talk about when they say it is lonely on the top, why? Because you cannot (or at least are not supposed to) get drunk after work and go on a rant to your local bar buddy about some stupid patient that you hate for x reason. Meanwhile, every other profession at least has some way of relieving their frustrations via venting.

-Trust me I am all about schadenfreu/sarcasm/being politcially incorrect. BUT, this has its arena, and youtube where the community that you serve can openly see you, is NOT IT. (dummies)
 

getdown

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It's amusing seeing all the self righteous premeds berating med students. Save your rainbow and unicorn crap for your interviews.

I don't blame them... these premeds know everything about medicine from their 200+ hours of volunteering and shadowing physicians. :rolleyes:
 

RogueUnicorn

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it's just an attempt at comedy, whatever..

i do have to say though, that this bit was funny
Some comments on the video's page were less than kind. The poster defended the video writing:
"This song was written out of love for Ben Taub, not hate. This video is made in jest...so please if you are not involved in the medical field then you have no idea what you´re talking about. I will continue to delete your comments because they are ill-informed."
fcking facepalm..
 

Hah

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I don't blame them... these premeds know everything about medicine from their 200+ hours of volunteering and shadowing physicians. :rolleyes:


This really isn't a case of "knowing" about medicine. It's knowing what's appropriate to post online. This is definitely an Alexandra Wallace moment on a smaller scale.


The lesson here is to keep your non pc parodies and videos private. As everyone says: yes your rights allow you to post them but don't have a fit when the #%@* hits the fan and the general public cries foul.
 

NOsquid

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Agreed. The video was disrespectful, but it was just a symptom of a larger problem...

+1

Those med students and all their friends laughing don't just think this is ok because they're especially dumb specimens, and I doubt the physicians supervising their education ever did anything to make them think these sentiments are ignorant.

Way to reinforce the stereotype, Texas :rolleyes:
 

ThreadStalker

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It's amusing seeing all the self righteous premeds berating med students. Save your rainbow and unicorn crap for your interviews.
Well, you'll excuse me, your highness-ness, for being merely a lowly premed in the presence of the great, world wise med students here. In my own defense, I've only been paying taxes for eighteen years, much of which as a firefighter/emt. I get to meet all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds in all sorts of situations, so I get where the students in the video are coming from, and where those offended by the video are coming from. I'm all for blowing off steam with crude jokes in an appropriate setting, but a large part of our training as physicians and other professionals is learning to be wise decision makers. On that point, these students failed miserably.

However, my post here was not about the video, but about how many posts on this thread defending the students framed the debate as "hard working students" vs. "entitlement seeking n'er-do-wells". After several years of reading threads on this site, I've learned that many of the posters here have overdeveloped senses of self-importance and feel that 8 or 10 years of hard work should lead to instant respect and high pay. I'm here to tell you it does not. Hard work leads to more hard work, and respect is earned or lost on a daily basis. Those of you with real world experience should know this, and those of you without should try to learn it without getting bitter. If you learn to respect others, they will respect you, if you cannot respect others no one will respect you.
 

getdown

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Well, you'll excuse me, your highness-ness, for being merely a lowly premed in the presence of the great, world wise med students here. In my own defense, I've only been paying taxes for eighteen years, much of which as a firefighter/emt. I get to meet all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds in all sorts of situations, so I get where the students in the video are coming from, and where those offended by the video are coming from. I'm all for blowing off steam with crude jokes in an appropriate setting, but a large part of our training as physicians and other professionals is learning to be wise decision makers. On that point, these students failed miserably.

However, my post here was not about the video, but about how many posts on this thread defending the students framed the debate as "hard working students" vs. "entitlement seeking n'er-do-wells". After several years of reading threads on this site, I've learned that many of the posters here have overdeveloped senses of self-importance and feel that 8 or 10 years of hard work should lead to instant respect and high pay. I'm here to tell you it does not. Hard work leads to more hard work, and respect is earned or lost on a daily basis. Those of you with real world experience should know this, and those of you without should try to learn it without getting bitter. If you learn to respect others, they will respect you, if you cannot respect others no one will respect you.

Then you should know with your 18 years of paying taxes and EMT experience that people you're trying to help don't necessarily always share this sentiment. Furthermore, a lot of those who feel entitled DON'T respect you hence by your own words, you don't have to respect them. I respect patients that are courteous and respectful of me and I even give leeway for those I know are going through hard times and aren't as cheerful. However, when you're providing FREE service at a homeless shelter and they stare you down and berate you for messing up a procedure you've NEVER done before that just screams of entitlement to me. And, just as an observation, it seems that those with the least (uninsured, etc) actually have the biggest entitled attitudes out there. Compensation to the fact that they don't have anything maybe? I've always wondered.
 
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Whoever thought posting that on youtube was a good idea was an idiot.

Otherwise, its not a big deal. It was funny, true to form, and a decent parody of a med student working in a county facility. Its not elitist, it wasn't mocking hispanic patients - it was mocking the healthcare system and medical education. County facilities allow med students to do insane stuff - great learning experience. But sucks for the (usually uninsured) patients.

It was not trying to be disrespectful to patients at all. And no one is saying is "right" that its that way. Or that the patients "deserve" substandard care because they have no insurance. However, it IS the reality. There are two levels of healthcare in this country and there is a wide margin between them.

Medicine is crass and cynical. You cannot survive medicine without a sense of humor and a doctor's sense of humor is dark. All the premeds here - come back in a few years when you're about done with your 3rd year and watch it again. You'll laugh.

Is it right? Not necessarily. But its the nature of healthcare. Few people not there understand it and most of us are well aware our sense of humor would not be well accepted by the public.

Which brings us back to my original point - it should have never been posted on youtube. I feel bad for the students who are going to get in trouble for something that the dean of students was probably there laughing at.
Well said, as usual.
 
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