Intern hours no longer required to work as a pharmacist in CA

[BMBiology]

How scary is this? California pharmacy schools pushed for this because their students can't find an internship and get real experience.

They just need to complete their rotations and they are qualified to take the licensure exams and then work as a pharmacist. If these rotations actually represent what paid pharmacists actually do then that is a different story. But we all know they do not.

One of my professors is a highly respected, big shot pharmacist. Everybody loves him. He had won awards like "Professor of the year". I had him for rotation and guess what I found out? He is just a volunteer at the hospital. You heard that right! They didn't even pay him. We would talk to patients and make recommendations in their charts. I honestly don't even remember one of those recommendations being accepted. But yet, this guy's words were like gold to us.

Besides my community rotation, I did not even touch a medication bottle but yet dispensing is what paid pharmacists do. We don't follow the medical team all day and make silly recommendations.

There are now what? 12 pharmacy schools in California? Before this boom and bust cycle, we had just 4 pharmacy schools. All of my friends had a few years of internship experience. We didn't learn how to practice by reading some lecture notes. We actually had work experiences. Those opportunities are now gone. That is the sad reality. People are now graduating and they don't know what is the difference between Wellbutrin XL vs Wellbutrin SR.

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[owlegrad]

How scary is this? California pharmacy schools pushed for this because their students can't find an internship and get real experience.

They just need to complete their rotations and they are qualified to take the licensure exams and then work as a pharmacist. If these rotations actually represent what paid pharmacists actually do then that is a different story. But we all know they do not.

One of my professors is a highly respected, big shot pharmacist. Everybody loves him. He had won awards like "Professor of the year". I had him for rotation and guess what I found out? He is just a volunteer at the hospital. You heard that right! They didn't even pay him. We would talk to patients and make recommendations in their charts. I honestly don't even remember one of those recommendations being accepted. But yet, this guy's words were like gold to us.

Besides my community rotation, I did not even touch a medication bottle but yet dispensing is what paid pharmacists do. We don't follow the medical team all day and make silly recommendations.

There are now what? 12 pharmacy schools in California? Before this boom and bust cycle, we had just 4 pharmacy schools. All of my friends had a few years of internship experience. We didn't learn how to practice by reading some lecture notes. We actually had work experiences. Those opportunities are now gone. That is the sad reality. People are now graduating and they don't know what is the difference between Wellbutrin XL vs Wellbutrin SR.

The difference between Wellbutrin XL and Wellbutrin SR is best learned from being an intern???? I suspect you are mixing two different issues.

 

[BMBiology]

^ people are now graduating and they don't know metformin ER can be taken twice a day because their lecture notes say it is given once a day.

 

[Digsbe]

I was a tech for a year and an intern for another year. Honestly compared to rotations and school the only thing it helped me learn was memorizing brand/generic names and recognize some common dosing.

 

[Lnsean]

what this thread is about: my dick is longer than yours.

 

[njac]

You just love to rip on clinical pharmacy

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk

I give you that, but I agree with the OP that the lack of any required time in a pharmacy outside of rotations is a detriment to their educations.

 

[BMBiology]

I interviewed at this pharmacy right after I had just graduated. I told the interviewer how I like to counsel and take care of my patients. She interrupted me and screamed, "this is not a pharmacy school! We don't provide patient care here!".

 

[confettiflyer]

There was discussion on my thread in the licensure subforum from a month or two ago when I posted about it (did this not come up on auto search when you started the thread?), but I'll paraphrase here:

The requirement was stupid and a paper chase. Students literally had to chase around old preceptors and have them sign a stupid form documenting intern hours to turn them into the board. The previous requirement was 1500 hours, 900 of which had to be "in a pharmacy" (aka your 6 week retail rotation provided 240 hours), 600 could be of some other experience. 1440 rotation hours + 60 IPPE hours meets the hourly requirement.

The 1500 hour requirement is a holdover from when the degree was a BS Pharm. It was BS Pharm + 1500 experiential hours, then it became 4yr PharmD + 1500 experiential hours because no one bothered to go "well, those 1500 hours were now incorporated into curriculum, maybe we should remove it as an external requirement." Because we all know how swiftly the gov't moves. "10 years later" sounds about right.

So this whole discussion is overblown. CA law finally caught up with reality and saves annoying us preceptors with forms that we really DGAF about (I'm busy).

UCSF is really spearheading the whole thing to remove the intern hours requirement and move to a competency based evaluation of pharmacy licensure. Part I is done (removing the hours thing), competency based evals are TBD. Pretty sure they're not struggling for jobs and rotation sites.

In the meantime, thank you, BOP, for lightening the stupid paperwork load of us preceptors out in the field.

 

[BMBiology]

^ I agree the paperwork is stupid.

The transition of BS Pharm degree to PharmD degree has nothing to do with it since California schools have been offering a PharmD degree before we were born.

If pharmacy schools want to move to a competency based evaluation, why would they get rid of the internship hours requirement before this new evaluation is set up? It doesn't sense.

Let's be frank here. Pharmacy schools got together and pushed for this because their graduates can't take the licensure exam without the required intern hours and therefore, they can't work as a pharmacist. This would make their school look bad.

By offering endless free labor via rotations, the need to hire an intern is no longer there. Bring in a couple of rotation students. Just place one at the drop off counter and another at the pick up counter and you are set.

I thought the BOP is suppose to protect the public.

 

[BMBiology]

Just another point. By getting rid of the required internship hours, pharmacy schools are freeing up more sites and therefore, they are creating more rotation sites. This allows pharmacy schools to expand and to take even more students.

Rotation sites is what holding back pharmacy schools from expanding even more. I guess that is no longer a problem now.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Many hospitals have already stopped hiring paid interns as they can get enough free labor from APPE students. Looks like this will be happening to retail pharmacies soon.

I wonder what students from the new SoCal schools will be doing to meet their Acute Care, Ambulatory Care, and Hospital requirements. Mopping floors and wiping counters?

 

[PharmDBro2017]

All the intern hours are a massive waste of time... just to be an unpaid technician and sign your name on a piece of paper stating you completed it.

Regardless, I still think it has to be mandatory.. some people have never even set foot in a pharmacy yet they are in pharmacy school. Kind of bewilders me.

 

[BenJammin]

Is the paperwork really that big of an issue? My interns get their hours signed off at the end of the rotation and get sent to the Dean who notarizes their hours at the end of rotations.

Just another point. By getting rid of the required internship hours, pharmacy schools are freeing up more sites and therefore, they are creating more rotation sites. This allows pharmacy schools to expand and to take even more students.

Rotation sites is what holding back pharmacy schools from expanding even more. I guess that is no longer a problem now.

I don't understand how eliminating hours frees up sites. The schools usually have to get the pharmacy to agree to take the intern and the hours have nothing to do with it.

 

[Corpseman]

Is the paperwork really that big of an issue? My interns get their hours signed off at the end of the rotation and get sent to the Dean who notarizes their hours at the end of rotations.



I don't understand how eliminating hours frees up sites. The schools usually have to get the pharmacy to agree to take the intern and the hours have nothing to do with it.

I think the idea is that the school was required to find the rotation sites to get them to agree to accept the students due to the hour requirement. Now, with no requirement the student does not need that rotation site anymore some other poor shmuck can take it.

 

[BenJammin]

I think the idea is that the school was required to find the rotation sites to get them to agree to accept the students due to the hour requirement. Now, with no requirement the student does not need that rotation site anymore some other poor shmuck can take it.

So how does that work logistically with the student? I had 9 rotations that were 4 weeks each and the local schools here do 6 week rotations. Is it going to be "today you're going to cvs, tomorrow cardinal nuclear, the next day back to cvs"?

 

[BMBiology]

To the OP: I go to UCSD which spearheaded this movement. Our dean wrote the original proposal to remove the requirement and he collaborated with UCSF to get more leverage.

This is not about making it easier on pharm students who can't find intern jobs, it is about California getting their act together with the present day practice of pharmacy. The vast majority, if not all, of non-California schools already have this "if you graduate from our school you get your 1500 hours" policy that is accepted by their respective state boards, so it is both presumptuous and ignorant for you to make that kind of statement.

If anything, it won't affect the students' pursuit of intern jobs anyways because some people need the income and everyone is trying to stay competitive for residency nowadays.

Wait a minute, wasn't UCSD put on probation for not having enough sites for their students?

Have you have been on rotations before? Do it and get back to us.

 

[njac]

This is not about making it easier on pharm students who can't find intern jobs, it is about California getting their act together with the present day practice of pharmacy. The vast majority, if not all, of non-California schools already have this "if you graduate from our school you get your 1500 hours" policy that is accepted by their respective state boards, so it is both presumptuous and ignorant for you to make that kind of statement.

Disagree.

I went to school in a state that required non-school affiliated hours. 80+% of my class worked >16 hours a week and I think we were better for it.

My rotations at the same hospital where I worked were very different than my intern experience there.

 

[BMBiology]

People just assume schools like UCSD and UCSF would not have a problem with getting rotation sites. The problem? The new schools are paying big bucks for sites and they are filling quality sites with their students. Money talks.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Anyone who thinks interning isn't important is just foolish. With all the new grads I've trained, the ones with little experience always have a harder time then those that do.

 

[confettiflyer]

The transition of BS Pharm degree to PharmD degree has nothing to do with it since California schools have been offering a PharmD degree before we were born.

It did, because PharmD was optional -- practicing pharmacists went BS Pharm + experiential hours = career. Old pre-2004 PharmD had nothing to do with intern hours.

If pharmacy schools want to move to a competency based evaluation, why would they get rid of the internship hours requirement before this new evaluation is set up? It doesn't sense.

Same reason why we can't build the entire high speed rail system in one fell swoop.

Let's be frank here. Pharmacy schools got together and pushed for this because their graduates can't take the licensure exam without the required intern hours and therefore, they can't work as a pharmacist. This would make their school look bad.

By offering endless free labor via rotations, the need to hire an intern is no longer there. Bring in a couple of rotation students. Just place one at the drop off counter and another at the pick up counter and you are set.

Students are a lot of work.... I spend at least 2 weeks with a net loss of work productivity training up students, even the best ones take a week to orient and make functional to integrate into my clinical program. Some students never achieve full independence some weeks. Very few students are able to extend our clinical program and provide a net gain to the department.

I thought the BOP is suppose to protect the public.

Yeah, they're protecting me from stupid paper requirements. That's all SB590 was. Paperwork clean up.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160SB590

Also, this is minor, but your title is misleading. Intern hours are still required in California... they just inserted language that allows for rotation experience to count as intern experience. Your title should be "Intern hours now satisfied by institutional rotational experience in California."

 

[confettiflyer]

To make things clear, I'm a HUGE fan of non-rotation intern experience. I worked 24-30 hours a week in an inpatient pharmacy unaffiliated with my school, it's a big part of why I've done so well today, and it's something I look for when screening PGY-1 applications.

My issue is archaic laws and forcing people to do things devalues those who go above and beyond. Like I said, it's been a paper chase for a long time, my rotation experience has long satisfied the California requirement. I don't see where the outrage was years and years ago when this was happening...all of a sudden, a legislative change to (gasp!) streamline an arm of state government gets criticism? Y'all are smoking.

 

[confettiflyer]

People just assume schools like UCSD and UCSF would not have a problem with getting rotation sites. The problem? The new schools are paying big bucks for sites and they are filling quality sites with their students. Money talks.

We refuse money from new schools all the time - it's not worth it. We're quite happy with UCSF students roaming around.

 

[confettiflyer]

Is the paperwork really that big of an issue? My interns get their hours signed off at the end of the rotation and get sent to the Dean who notarizes their hours at the end of rotations.

I just did not want to fill out that California form. I don't have time for that ****. We have half a dozen students roaming around any given rotation, if their primary preceptor isn't there on the last day or whenever the form got presented, the rest of the staff has to deal with it.

Sorry but I have real work to do - like verify orders for patients and monitor IV's being made. The only reason I was signing paperwork was because a law was outdated.

I don't understand how eliminating hours frees up sites. The schools usually have to get the pharmacy to agree to take the intern and the hours have nothing to do with it.

It doesn't make sense. And like I mentioned above, the title is misleading. Intern hours are still required, but they are satisfied by attending any accredited school that imposes ~1500 hours of rotational experience in the P-4 year.

 

[confettiflyer]

Okay I'm going to put this in big lettering because I keep reading the above replies and no one gets it:

California did NOT remove the intern hour requirement to be a pharmacist.

They CLARIFIED that rotational experience satisfies the intern hour requirement.

THIS IS NOT NEW. Rotational experience has ALWAYS satisfied the 900/600 rule as the law was written.

What you guys are confusing are intern hours vs. outside work experience. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

 

[Chriskahn]

IPPE experience isn't the same as an actual paid internship. My IPPE experience was kind of lame. I didn't learn much because the pharmacy was busy and my preceptor was busy filling scripts all day. I wasn't allowed to handle money or work the register so I spent my time walking around trying to learn the system from techs and assistants...which was pointless since they cant do what pharmacists do. I worked the drive through sometimes, but I had to go get a tech to cash out and that pissed off the patients since they had to wait.

I only have about 100 hours out of the 300 required for licensing outside of IPPE . I wont be able to complete the remaining hours this coming summer because my wife and I just had a baby. So I'll be finishing my hours post grad which is fine. But I cant imagine working as a pharmacist with only IPPE and APPE experience alone. I think students definitely need actual paid intern hours to get the full experience (even though I would love to be in CA right now and not have to finish my hours). But that's because I'm lazy and this baby never lets me sleep.

 

[confettiflyer]

Additional legislative background to add to discussion (bold = mine):

Senate Floor Analysis:
Existing law establishes parameters for pharmacy practice experience and how an applicant for a pharmacist license must comply with pharmacy practice requirements while Board regulations provide further specificity on pharmacy practice experience and in what settings the experience is to be obtained. In 2014, the Board had various discussions and determined it should revise its current process for the reporting of pharmacy practice experience for individuals who graduate from an ACPE school of pharmacy, specifically indicating a desire to accept the PharmD degree from an ACPE accredited school as documentation that an individual has completed the required pharmacy practice experience requirements.

Many student applicants have difficulty providing documentation of professional practice experience to the Board if they have gained experience in several pharmacies and different pharmacy settings as part of their pharmacy practice experience over a three to four year period, due to the requirement that such experience must be documented and signed under penalty of perjury by a pharmacist under whose supervision such experience was obtained (or by another designated pharmacist).

The Author notes, that since all schools of pharmacy recognized by the Board meet the same standards of curriculum (including pharmacy practice experience) as outlined in the Pharmacy Law, the current method of documentation, which can be cumbersome for applicants, does not actually add value to the application process or enhance the Board’s consumer protection mandate.

Assembly Analysis:

ARGUMENTS IN SUPPORT:

According to the Board, "As written, this bill will streamline the application process for individuals seeking licensure as pharmacists who are recent graduates of accredited schools of pharmacy or other schools or pharmacy recognized by the board without compromising the board's consumer protection mandate."

According to the University of California, "Out-of-state graduates pursuing a license to practice as a pharmacist in California simply need to inform the Board that they graduated from an accredited school of pharmacy…We believe that the process should be the same for graduates of any accredited school of pharmacy, regardless of whether it is located in California or another state. Furthermore, the attestation required for California graduates is labor-intensive for the interns, the supervising pharmacists, as well as the Board."

According to the California Pharmacists Association, "Given that each school of pharmacy carefully monitors the pharmacy practice experience of students, the burdensome affidavit requirement is not necessary."

ARGUMENTS IN OPPOSITION: None on file.

 

[bacillus1]

Don't see a problem with it. For most other health professions, rotations are enough as well. I don't see why pharmacy should be any different. If a school doesn't equip you to be a competent pharmacist through education and rotations, then that is a problem with the school.

 

[Rukn]

Don't see a problem with it. For most other health professions, rotations are enough as well. I don't see why pharmacy should be any different. If a school doesn't equip you to be a competent pharmacist through education and rotations, then that is a problem with the school.

Almost all retail pharmacists I've spoken to say that school doesn't really help you to perform well on the job.

 

[BMBiology]

This is just a start to the lowering of standards.

Watch the pharmacy schools getting rid of some pre-reqs because they need students. Watch them turn their 4 year program to 3 years so they can enroll more students.

Whether you agree with these changes or not is a different issue. The trend is becoming obvious. The goal is to keep on pumping out more graduates and collecting tuition money, even in a saturated job market.

 

[confettiflyer]

This is just a start to the lowering of standards.

I think it's a stretch calling the removal of a paperwork requirement the "lowering of standards" even for the most hardened SDN pessimist.

 

[BMBiology]

Removal of a paperwork requirement? Do you honestly think pharmacy schools care so much about this paperwork requirement that they got together and pushed for this legislation?

 

[Shazzy1228]

^ people are now graduating and they don't know metformin ER can be taken twice a day because their lecture notes say it is given once a day.

😱 you can't be serious......I mean you have to be joking right?? they don't know the various ways drugs can be given?
somebody please verify this because that is some bullsh** and scary.

 

[confettiflyer]

Removal of a paperwork requirement? Do you honestly think pharmacy schools care so much about this paperwork requirement that they got together and pushed for this legislation?

Well...yeah, it was unnecessary and burdensome for student, schools that bundle the applications in-state, and preceptors.

 

[steveysmith54]

problem is that most rotations suck. Those 900 hours of working outside of rotations is critical... Rotations are often filled students doing disease state reports, cleaning shelves and doing inventory outdates in retail, and just counting pills for the most part. Also most schools are teaching pts that retail rph have to mtm and SOAP pts.. I've already seen a big decline in quality of students that i get in my practice bc they lack any real work experience. The experience gained working far outweighs any paper work burden. It's silly to think otherwise. Funny that the biggest supporter of this change is someone who worked enormous amount of hours himself.. it's actually comical.

 

[bacillus1]

problem is that most rotations suck. Those 900 hours of working outside of rotations is critical... Rotations are often filled students doing disease state reports, cleaning shelves and doing inventory outdates in retail, and just counting pills for the most part. Also most schools are teaching pts that retail rph have to mtm and SOAP pts.. I've already seen a big decline in quality of students that i get in my practice bc they lack any real work experience. The experience gained working far outweighs any paper work burden. It's silly to think otherwise. Funny that the biggest supporter of this change is someone who worked enormous amount of hours himself.. it's actually comical.

Well then, schools should reform their curricula to ensure rotations teach students properly. Do you see dental school require dental assistant experience to get a license? How about physical therapy? No and no. I agree that work experience is valuable, and encourage all students to work during school to be more marketable, but do not think that this should be a requirement.

 

[steveysmith54]

Well then, schools should reform their curricula to ensure rotations teach students properly. .

We don't live in a perfect world, right now schools are scrambling to find and retain their rotations with 9 billion new schools trying to find sites. We went from 4 schools to 12 schools in CA in about a decade, we are running out of sites. The system was fine and was working... I used to get much much more prepared students who knew what they were doing.

 

[BMBiology]

Well...yeah, it was unnecessary and burdensome for student, schools that bundle the applications in-state, and preceptors.

You don't get rid of the required internship hours because you don't like the paperwork (pharmacists confirming a student is competent to do certain task). Get rid of the paperwork. Keep the required internship hours.

Students are graduating nowadays with just a limited number of work hours. Following your professor while he tags along the med team doesn't count. That is not what a working pharmacist does for a living. Pharmacy schools do such a poor job preparing students for this career. Most of them don't know what is important and what is not so important. They think they have 30 mins to do a SOAP assessment and another 30 mins to counsel a patient.

See how weak this profession is? Not one person or organization was against this legislation. It is all lowering standards and making more money.

 

[confettiflyer]

You don't get rid of the required internship hours because you don't like the paperwork (pharmacists confirming a student is competent to do certain task). Get rid of the paperwork. Keep the required internship hours.

Did you not see my post....did you not read the legislation? The intern hour requirement is still there. Black and white. What students had to do in 2008...2010...2012...2013...2014 is not changing. What's changing is CA BOP is recognizing that every single damn student graduating from an ACPE accredited school is meeting the intern requirement.

Students are graduating nowadays with just a limited number of work hours. Following your professor while he tags along the med team doesn't count. That is not what a working pharmacist does for a living. Pharmacy schools do such a poor job preparing students for this career. Most of them don't know what is important and what is not so important. They think they have 30 mins to do a SOAP assessment and another 30 mins to counsel a patient.

See how weak this profession is? Not one person or organization was against this legislation. It is all lowering standards and making more money.

You're seriously misreading this legislation and its effect. Nothing is new. You're trying to extrapolate a mandate for external pharmacy experience that was never ever required in the modern era. Stop pretending that was the requirement all along.

That all said...I agree with you students need real world non-rotation experience. We place a premium on it in hiring decisions.

 

[confettiflyer]

We don't live in a perfect world, right now schools are scrambling to find and retain their rotations with 9 billion new schools trying to find sites. We went from 4 schools to 12 schools in CA in about a decade, we are running out of sites. The system was fine and was working... I used to get much much more prepared students who knew what they were doing.

And nothing's changed. Schools have needed rotation sites since PharmD was introduced...this legislation does not alter that in any way. If anything, it puts pressure on schools to deliver because now rotation sites are directly linked to licensing via ACPE accreditation.

 

[confettiflyer]

problem is that most rotations suck. Those 900 hours of working outside of rotations is critical... Rotations are often filled students doing disease state reports, cleaning shelves and doing inventory outdates in retail, and just counting pills for the most part. Also most schools are teaching pts that retail rph have to mtm and SOAP pts.. I've already seen a big decline in quality of students that i get in my practice bc they lack any real work experience. The experience gained working far outweighs any paper work burden. It's silly to think otherwise. Funny that the biggest supporter of this change is someone who worked enormous amount of hours himself.. it's actually comical.

Did you even read the legislation? Do you even understand the difference between intern hours and external work experience? Here, let me post my other post for you that reduces the # of words you have to read:

California did NOT remove the intern hour requirement to be a pharmacist.

They CLARIFIED that rotational experience satisfies the intern hour requirement.

THIS IS NOT NEW. Rotational experience has ALWAYS satisfied the 900/600 rule as the law was written.

What you guys are confusing are intern hours vs. outside work experience. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

 

[njac]

Did you even read the legislation? Do you even understand the difference between intern hours and external work experience? Here, let me post my other post for you that reduces the # of words you have to read:

California did NOT remove the intern hour requirement to be a pharmacist.

They CLARIFIED that rotational experience satisfies the intern hour requirement.

THIS IS NOT NEW. Rotational experience has ALWAYS satisfied the 900/600 rule as the law was written.

What you guys are confusing are intern hours vs. outside work experience. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

Might be different nomenclature.

Back in my day "rotations" were "rotations" and "work outside of school" was "intern hours"

 

[confettiflyer]

Might be different nomenclature.

Back in my day "rotations" were "rotations" and "work outside of school" was "intern hours"

It is nomenclature, but legally a student was able to use CA Form 17A-29 to affirm the hours of experience required by state law. Whether those experience hours were obtained by paid employment, volunteering, or under the umbrella of a rotation with school was irrelevant. Experience was experience.

I think everyone is under the impression that there was a requirement that students needed to go out on their own to obtain 1500 hours of experience. This was never the case in the modern PharmD era. That's why people who aren't reading think all of a sudden California stripped away a requirement to work outside of school....but there was never such a mandate to begin with.

The actual legislation even says very clearly the hours requirement is not disappearing. I don't think anyone above has even read the thing before commenting on it. They're just reading the misleading title of this thread.

And back in your day isn't so far removed from back in my day 🙂

 

[steveysmith54]

Did you even read the legislation? Do you even understand the difference between intern hours and external work experience? Here, let me post my other post for you that reduces the # of words you have to read:

California did NOT remove the intern hour requirement to be a pharmacist.

They CLARIFIED that rotational experience satisfies the intern hour requirement.

THIS IS NOT NEW. Rotational experience has ALWAYS satisfied the 900/600 rule as the law was written.

What you guys are confusing are intern hours vs. outside work experience. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

nobody understands you today, and you clearly don't understand what this thread is about. your post doesn't even warrant a reply...

 

[a student]

Watch the pharmacy schools getting rid of some pre-reqs because they need students. Watch them turn their 4 year program to 3 years so they can enroll more students

How does that allow them to enroll more students?

 

[confettiflyer]

i'm too dumb to understand you today, and i don't feel like reading the law to understand, so i'm not going to reply...

fixed that one

 

[confettiflyer]

C'mon everyone....there was never ever ever ever an outside work requirement, neverrrr. Stop pretending there ever was one.

This isn't some mass conspiracy because schools "couldn't get their students placed" in outside employment.

Schools aren't going to waste their time arguing against a law that doesn't exist.

I'm happy I don't have to attest under penalty/perjury that form and look up dates for previous students.

I can use that extra time gained to post raging posts on SDN.

 

[steveysmith54]

fixed that one

hmm, all the posters in this thread disagree with you, but you continue to write nonsense. This is factual. I think the consensus is that there is something wrong with you, not me.. you are just embarrassing yourself, son...

 

[confettiflyer]

More background in case no one wants to read the damn law:

Senate Bill No. 590
CHAPTER 147

An act to amend Section 4209 of the Business and Professions Code, relating to pharmacy.

[ Approved by Governor August 07, 2015. Filed with Secretary of State August 07, 2015. ]

LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST

SB 590, Stone. Pharmacy: intern pharmacists.
Existing law, the Pharmacy Law, establishes the California State Board of Pharmacy within the Department of Consumer Affairs and sets forth its powers and duties over the licensing and regulation of the practice of pharmacies, pharmacists, intern pharmacists, and pharmacy technicians. A knowing violation of these provisions is a crime.
Existing law requires an intern pharmacist to complete 1,500 hours of pharmacy practice or intern experience before applying for the pharmacist licensure examination. Existing law authorizes an applicant for examination who has been licensed as a pharmacist in any state for at least one year to submit certification to satisfy the required 1,500 hours of intern experience if that applicant has obtained a minimum of 900 hours of pharmacy practice experience in a pharmacy as a pharmacist.
This bill would instead require, for all applicants, that 900 hours of the 1,500 required pharmacy practice experience include experience in a pharmacy, including experience in both a community and institutional pharmacy practice setting.
Existing law requires the pharmacy practice to comply with the Standards of Curriculum established by the Accreditation Council for Pharmacy Education (ACPE) or with regulations adopted by the board. Existing law requires an intern pharmacist to submit proof of his or her experience under penalty of perjury.
This bill would require that an applicant for the licensure examination who has graduated after January 1, 2016, from an ACPE accredited college of pharmacy or school of pharmacy recognized by the board, be deemed by the board to have satisfied the required hours of pharmacy practice experience, as specified.
By expanding the scope of an existing crime, this bill would create a state-mandated local program.
The California Constitution requires the state to reimburse local agencies and school districts for certain costs mandated by the state. Statutory provisions establish procedures for making that reimbursement.
This bill would provide that no reimbursement is required by this act for a specified reason.

DIGEST KEY
Vote: majority Appropriation: no Fiscal Committee: yes Local Program: yes
BILL TEXT
THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

SECTION 1.
Section 4209 of the Business and Professions Code is amended to read:


4209.
(a) (1) An intern pharmacist shall complete 1,500 hours of pharmacy practice experience before applying for the pharmacist licensure examination.
(2) This pharmacy practice experience shall comply with the Standards of Curriculum established by the Accreditation Council for Pharmacy Education (ACPE) or with regulations adopted by the board.
(3) This pharmacy practice experience shall include 900 hours of pharmacy practice experience in a pharmacy as a pharmacist and shall include pharmacy practice experience in both a community and institutional pharmacy practice setting.
(b) An intern pharmacist shall submit proof of his or her pharmacy practice experience on board-approved affidavits, or another form specified by the board, which shall be certified under penalty of perjury by a pharmacist under whose supervision the experience was obtained or by the pharmacist-in-charge at the pharmacy while the pharmacist intern obtained the experience. Pharmacy practice experience earned in another state may be certified by the licensing agency of that state to document proof of those hours.
(c) An applicant for the examination who has been licensed as a pharmacist in any state for at least one year, as certified by the licensing agency of that state, may submit this certification to satisfy the required 1,500 hours of pharmacy practice experience, provided that the applicant has obtained a minimum of 900 hours of pharmacy practice experience in a pharmacy as a pharmacist and has pharmacy practice experience in both a community and institutional pharmacy practice setting. Certification of an applicant’s licensure in another state shall be submitted in writing and signed, under oath, by a duly authorized official of the state in which the license is held.
(d) An applicant for the examination who has graduated after January 1, 2016, from an ACPE accredited college of pharmacy or school of pharmacy recognized by the board shall be deemed to have satisfied the pharmacy practice experience requirements specified in subdivisions (a) and (b).


SEC. 2.
No reimbursement is required by this act pursuant to Section 6 of Article XIII B of the California Constitution because the only costs that may be incurred by a local agency or school district will be incurred because this act creates a new crime or infraction, eliminates a crime or infraction, or changes the penalty for a crime or infraction, within the meaning of Section 17556 of the Government Code, or changes the definition of a crime within the meaning of Section 6 of Article XIII B of the California Constitution.



From ACPE, now linked by the above legislation:
https://www.acpe-accredit.org/pdf/Standards2016FINAL.pdf


12.6. IPPE duration – IPPE totals no less than 300 clock hours of experience and is purposely integrated into the didactic curriculum. A minimum of 150 hours of IPPE are balanced between community and institutional health-system settings.

13.4. APPE duration – The curriculum includes no less than 36 weeks (1440 hours) of APPE. A

 

[confettiflyer]

hmm, all the posters in this thread disagree with you, but you continue to write nonsense. This is factual. I think the consensus is that there is something wrong with you, not me.. you are just embarrassing yourself, son...

because everyone blindly believed the title of the post that CA banished intern hours

It's like if your student presented an article title/abstract and didn't read the actual article itself, and then you took it as an article of faith.

I mean, feel free to disagree...but people are agreeing with a law that doesn't even exist. It's seriously like a circus in here. See above copy/paste of the laws and linked ACPE hours requirements that have always satisfied the 1500.

 

[mtlam]

Is this really a big issue? We have established this in MA already, fulfilling our rotation requirements at the college satisfies the 1500 hours requirement.