I am a 2008 applicant currently interviewing for pathology residency. I was trying to be organized and planned a pregnancy for this year. The plan was to pop out the little bundle this spring and start residency with my biological clock slightly less angry at me. Unfortunately, I just had a miscarriage. So now the question becomes should I try to get pregnant now? My OB, who is my age, says this should not be a question and I need to get back on board and make this baby. However, I have heard horror stories of residents being ostracized because of intern year pregnancies. I have a wonderful support system and a nanny already lined up. If anyone has any experience in this area I would love to hear what you have to say.
Intern Year Pregnancy
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I think as long as you are upfront with your PD and co-residents about when you will be expecting and about when you will need to be off-service it probably won't be an issue. It would be an issue (at least with me) if you deliberately withheld the fact that you were pregnant then requested that schedules be changed at the last minute to accomodate your personal life. I think as long as you realize that people make plans far ahead contigent on when they can take vacation (ie on certain rotations only), you should be ok.
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consider trying to go to a program that has some CP built into the PGY-1 year. this way your absence doesn't affect service work as much. i agree with darkside that honesty and being upfront with your fellow residents can make this go much more smoothly.
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At our program it would be really hard to manage intern year. There is 6 months of cutting, 3 autopsy and 3 CP. I am not sure I would want to be pregnany and exposed to all that. Now, second year on the other hand would be a great year. I would look at how the schedule is designed at the place where you match and then maybe decide.
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Pathology training should be secondary IMO from the things you really want to accomplish in your life...being BC in Pathology should not be in ANYONE's top 5, FFS.
that being said training IS fairly serious. this isnt pouring Coors Light at local pub for a living and does require a willingness to devote a solid 60-80hrs/week once you include studying/previewing/reading.
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You can always take time off, as people said. Many programs it won't matter too much because they have enough residents to cover everything. For others, they will have to shuffle and scramble a little but still will handle it fairly easily.
I think first year is as good as any time, you can fill in stuff you missed later. It does put a bit of a burden on you, unfortunately, but that's kind of part necessity - training requires X months of this, X months of that, etc.
I think first year is as good as any time, you can fill in stuff you missed later. It does put a bit of a burden on you, unfortunately, but that's kind of part necessity - training requires X months of this, X months of that, etc.
I don't think you need to tell any PDs about your plans for family in the immediate future, especially because you don't know what will happen in the next few months yourself. Instead, feel out how family friendly each program is during your interviews--ask how many residents have family (and have them clarify the number of female residents they are including), life outside of residency, etc. You will find that some programs are very up front about residents and pregnancy; for instance, one I interviewed at last year was very proud of the fact that their residents average 2.2 kids/year! Others will not talk about it, but instead will impress upon you how horrid your years of AP will be, insinuating, IMO, that family, pregnancy and free time would be very difficult. Also, ask what the residents do as far as making up time off, etc (most take a 3 mo leave and this works out well when calculated in the allowed time off over 4 yrs).
As someone mentioned earlier, it would be great if you had some CP time in your first or second year, but don't let that discourage you--a baby during AP is totally possible. Of course I'm limited by my experience at my own program (and my med school experiences), but I have not seen any kind of problem in pathology with scheduling/workload when other residents take maternity leave. Frankly, I think it is the responsibility of a residency program and faculty to anticipate and plan for situations in which residents AND faculty need time off, regardless of the reason why. For instance, if someone does an away rotation or takes time off for research, does that negatively impact other residents? Because it absolutely should NOT, and neither should a maternity/paternity/family leave. That's one of the reasons why there are chiefs and fellows--they can step in an fill in any gaps. And btw, we have had a couple of female residents in AP have babies, and I've not heard ANY other residents complain.
A few other things--people get pregnant in all walks of life and in all professions, so while it may seem undesirable to be pregnant while in AP, you can deal with it safely. You can wear a special respirator mask while working with formalin fixed tissue, and PPE while doing autopsies is a given, of course. Talk to your OB about safety issues, and if he/she doesn't know they best way to take precautions, keep searching for someone who does (my program touched on necessary precautions for pregnant residents on the first day!).
Bottom-line, most residency applicants are in the middle of their prime reproductive years, and as much as residency programs in any specialty may not like it, pregnancy is a fact of life. AND, it is possible to have a 60-80 hr week and still be a good mother (speaking from experience on this one, although the weeks that avg 60 weeks are a heck of a lot easier than the 80 hr weeks!), especially if you have good childcare lined up. So I encourage you to go for it--apply for path, pick your dream program that will meet your professional goals AND your personal goals, and start a family. This is your life, after all, and you have to be happy in it.
Good luck!
As someone mentioned earlier, it would be great if you had some CP time in your first or second year, but don't let that discourage you--a baby during AP is totally possible. Of course I'm limited by my experience at my own program (and my med school experiences), but I have not seen any kind of problem in pathology with scheduling/workload when other residents take maternity leave. Frankly, I think it is the responsibility of a residency program and faculty to anticipate and plan for situations in which residents AND faculty need time off, regardless of the reason why. For instance, if someone does an away rotation or takes time off for research, does that negatively impact other residents? Because it absolutely should NOT, and neither should a maternity/paternity/family leave. That's one of the reasons why there are chiefs and fellows--they can step in an fill in any gaps. And btw, we have had a couple of female residents in AP have babies, and I've not heard ANY other residents complain.
A few other things--people get pregnant in all walks of life and in all professions, so while it may seem undesirable to be pregnant while in AP, you can deal with it safely. You can wear a special respirator mask while working with formalin fixed tissue, and PPE while doing autopsies is a given, of course. Talk to your OB about safety issues, and if he/she doesn't know they best way to take precautions, keep searching for someone who does (my program touched on necessary precautions for pregnant residents on the first day!).
Bottom-line, most residency applicants are in the middle of their prime reproductive years, and as much as residency programs in any specialty may not like it, pregnancy is a fact of life. AND, it is possible to have a 60-80 hr week and still be a good mother (speaking from experience on this one, although the weeks that avg 60 weeks are a heck of a lot easier than the 80 hr weeks!), especially if you have good childcare lined up. So I encourage you to go for it--apply for path, pick your dream program that will meet your professional goals AND your personal goals, and start a family. This is your life, after all, and you have to be happy in it.
Good luck!
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The portion of your comment that I have underlined is ridiculous. Usually these kinds of opportunities (usually in the form of electives) are built into the schedule at the beginning of the year. Thus, the services are all appropriately staffed by residents when this person is gone. It is a far different situation in which someone suddenly needs to be gone during a certain busy rotation and then someone has to fill in (possibly getting pulled off their own elective time). While I agree that the program has a responsibility to anticipate that people will need to take leave, it is impossible to have enough residents available to cover every service and invariably, we, not faculty, are the ones who suffer when a resident takes leave.
We had a resident on CP take personal leave this year and it threw the schedule into complete chaos, causing people to miss out on electives, having to replan vacations, etc. In fact, during March and April we will be down a resident on our busiest CP call rotation-- so now we will have to be Q4 for two months, not to mention have to pick up an extra weekend. Don't make it sound like this **** has no impact on the people you work with--ultimately its the other residents who suffer. All I'm asking is to be upfront when you find out when you are pregnant so that things can be scheduled accordingly or adjustments made. No one cares if you want time off for x, y, or z, just don't f*ck every one else over in order to get it.
Good lord, there is no reason to get so nasty. And pregnancy does not create a "sudden need" for leave. I was trying to impart to the original poster that there is no reason to discuss her plans for family while interviewing, especially when she is not currently pregnant. From what was posted, she has no idea when she will be pregnant and when she will potentially need time off, therefore why bring it up now? Of course when/if the time comes she should tell the necessary people so plans can be made for her leave, and with good planning there should be at least 6 mos notice. So check your attitude and relax.
B
b&ierstiefel
You are not obligated to and you do not need to bring this up in your applications or interviews.
As for UCSFbound's response, I can see where he is coming from. However, this has little to do with pregnancy specifically but the division of labor between folks with families and folks without families. As a fellow, I am in the position of training people, helping people out whenever necessary, and troubleshooting problems...when in this position, I hear quite a lot of gossip. I do hear folks without families comment about the few instances where folks with families have to leave early or can't take all of their call night or weekend so they arrange for coverage. The dumping of work seems to go in a unidirectional flow. Usually this isn't a problem as things are quite flexible and coverage is pretty easy. However, when it's the same people who repeatedly do this, the single folks feel like they're being penalized for not having families.
Now back to pregnancy...babies aren't born suddenly. Usually pregnant mothers can arrange for coverage well in advance and get maternity leave, no problem. But you do NOT need to discuss this in any fashion or format during the application process. And they should not ask you about this either.
I'm sorry to hear you had a miscarriage...but having a family is important to you and you have to do what you have to do. Residency is secondary to your life...residency is not your life!
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I completely agree with azul. I wouldn't say anything to a PD especially since you can't predict when your pregnancy will happen or when you would need time off. Also, getting a feel for how friendly your program is towards families/maternity leave from current residents, etc is a good idea. As far as being pregnant early on first year, its definitely do-able (though I am sure difficult). I am not sure there is ever a great time for having kids in residency, but if you have a nanny and all that lined up, that seems like most of the battle.
Though we are all entitled to our opinions, there is really no need for nastiness, DarksideAllstar.
Though we are all entitled to our opinions, there is really no need for nastiness, DarksideAllstar.
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I never mentioned that the OP should tell any PD at any interview that they need to discuss their pregnancy plans at the time of interview. I am merely requesting that the person be up front with her PD at the program at which she matches (at the time of discovering that she is pregnant or soon thereafter) about needing to take time off and plan for it in advance. All I am asking is that the person plan ahead appropriately, in fact, if you go back to my first post in this thread you'll see the same thing written. Apologies if I came off with an attitude, just a little irritated with my own CP shenanigans come this March and April.
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i would also suggest that if you want to minimize the impact of your pregnancy on the program's workload and therefore your fellow residents, consider trying to go to a larger program. someplace that takes at least 6 residents each year. this way, it's easier to manage the lost productivity. at places where there's only 3-4 residents per year, losing a pgy-1 for 3 months means a lot of grossing and autopsy work that has to be dealt with somehow.
L
l&usibari
Loss of a resident, for whatever reason, is always going to have effects on other people, even if it's just on the chief resident who has to make the rotation and call schedules for that year. The key is trying to minimize and distribute these effects so as to not unduly burden others. If you have the ability to plan a leave (although when pregnancy occurs cannot always be planned despite our best efforts), it is extremely helpful to inform the appropriate parties before the rotation and call schedules get made for the year. If you have a general idea of when you will deliver and require maternity leave, it will be possible to plan the schedule around those estimated dates. Much different from having the schedule already made, with of course you scheduled to be on surgical pathology on your due date.
While I can completely understand how frustrating it can be for people to have to change their own schedules or lose out on opportunities because of others' life choices, we have to understand that as humans we depend upon each other. You never know when YOU will need to take leave, for medical reasons, a car accident, a sick family member, or for your own maternity or paternity leave. So try to be flexible and not grumble too much, okay?
While I can completely understand how frustrating it can be for people to have to change their own schedules or lose out on opportunities because of others' life choices, we have to understand that as humans we depend upon each other. You never know when YOU will need to take leave, for medical reasons, a car accident, a sick family member, or for your own maternity or paternity leave. So try to be flexible and not grumble too much, okay?
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another good point - places with lots of PAs, be they in training or employed, can likely pick up the work better than places where residents are doing most of the cutting on autopsy and surg path rotations. duke and ohio state are places i visited that have PA training programs, and each pointed out that the department would be able to run pretty well without residents because there are plenty of staff to perform the service work residents on AP provide. so perhaps this is something else to consider for a applicant planning to become pregnant during residency.
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I'm so sorry to hear about your loss, I can imagine how hard it must be with the stress of your final year, interviews, exams, etc. Even if you were early on, it is never easy to lose a pregnancy, it's tough on your body and your soul.
--> I agree with your OB that you should get back on board ASAP. In fact, I've heard you are most fertile right after!
There's no reason to wait - residency will be grueling, but so will practice. There is always something, but you can't go home at night and hug your microscope. Life will fill up with things that are less important than your own children, and kids can be a great stress-reliever, too.
It sounds like you have your resources lined up, re:nanny, but I would also consider matching at a program near family. There's just no substitute when you are in a pinch with a baby at home.
I would only tell the PD/chief resident after you match, they don't make the schedule until the end of May/June anyway and by then you should know whether there's a bun in the oven or not.
I was very open on my interviews re: family is a priority, and seemed to get a warm response almost everywhere.
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