Internal Medicine to Pain Medicine?

[FeaturingA]

Is this a possible route? Even if it’s not acgme accredited. More so for the training.

if not, sports medicine is a similar alternative. are you able to do basic pain procedures in sports medicine? (Ex. Steroid injections)

thanks

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[deleted472101]

I think it’s possible to get an accredited spot but hard.

I would recommend doing an accredited fellowship as it might be hard to defend in court if you went from non-traditional residency to an unofficial fellowship god forbid if something goes wrong.

 

[Bostonspine]

Is this a possible route? Even if it’s not acgme accredited. More so for the training.

if not, sports medicine is a similar alternative. are you able to do basic pain procedures in sports medicine? (Ex. Steroid injections)

thanks

Basic joint and trigger point injections are in the scope of out primary care and can be learned with mentorship or cme. I suppose the bigger question is what are you hoping to accomplish sub specialty training or increasing billable procedures in an internal medicine practice. Rheumatology can get you all kinda ultrasound procedure training and infusion business. I’ve seen a few work with ortho practices doing osteoporosis, joint injection and inflammatory joint dz work ups

 

[Ducttape]

Basic joint and trigger point injections are in the scope of out primary care and can be learned with mentorship or cme. I suppose the bigger question is what are you hoping to accomplish sub specialty training or increasing billable procedures in an internal medicine practice. Rheumatology can get you all kinda ultrasound procedure training and infusion business. I’ve seen a few work with ortho practices doing osteoporosis, joint injection and inflammatory joint dz work ups

do not go in to rheum thinking that you will be getting a lot of procedures or making a lot of money.

there is a reason why one of the most desperate fellowship programs are rheum.

 

[Baron Samedi]

When I rotated rheum as a resident, it was maybe 2 injections/aspirations a week and the rest was largely fibromyalgia workups and DMARD refills.

 

[lobelsteve]

Most rheums by me do 10 injections per day on knees, shoulders, wrists. With US.

 

[Bostonspine]

Most rheums by me do 10 injections per day on knees, shoulders, wrists. With US.

I agree with Steve the ones I’ve talk to are doing diagnostics for synovitis, infusion and joint injection. They refer fibro to the academic center and brand themselves as joint specialist...

 

[oreosandsake]

Garette Lasalle at the Cleveland Clinic. internist then did pain fellowship at CC. really, really smart and talented guy. it is possible. will need to apply to a larger fellowship program that can absorb and take risk on non trad fellow

 

[Monterosso]

There are challenges for an IM candidate. A main one being internal medicine (by their own board's choosing from my understanding) does not enable ABMS Pain medicine board certification. Thus (unless something has changed very recently or my understanding is way off), an internal medicine resident who then tries to do pain fellowship, will not be board-certifiable in Pain via ABMS. As I mentioned in another thread, doing non-ACGME may be even more challenging later from insurance reimbursement (and credentialing).

Medical Specialties & Subspecialties | ABMS

The 40 medical specialties and 89 subspecialties in which the 24 ABMS Member Boards offer certification.

www.abms.org

If you are truly interested in pain, consider switching into anesthesiology residency or perhaps PM&R. Not only will you have way higher likelihood of matching, but you will also be board certifiable via ABMS.

 

[Entadus]

There are challenges for an IM candidate. A main one being internal medicine (by their own board's choosing from my understanding) does not enable ABMS Pain medicine board certification. Thus (unless something has changed very recently or my understanding is way off), an internal medicine resident who then tries to do pain fellowship, will not be board-certifiable in Pain via ABMS. As I mentioned in another thread, doing non-ACGME may be even more challenging later from insurance reimbursement (and credentialing).

Medical Specialties & Subspecialties | ABMS

The 40 medical specialties and 89 subspecialties in which the 24 ABMS Member Boards offer certification.

www.abms.org

If you are truly interested in pain, consider switching into anesthesiology residency or perhaps PM&R. Not only will you have way higher likelihood of matching, but you will also be board certifiable via ABMS.

Sorry for the necrobump, but can anyone else confirm or deny this?

I see the ABMS list you posted, and notably it does not show pain as a possible subspecialty of IM.
Which is a bit strange, considering in addition to the traditional anesthesia/PM&R , Pain is also listed under Neuro/Psych and Emergency Med!
Surely an IM/HPM boarded doc would be just as capable as an EM or psychiatrist in learning the specialty...

@Birdstrike

 

[swamprat]

Sorry for the necrobump, but can anyone else confirm or deny this?

I see the ABMS list you posted, and notably it does not show pain as a possible subspecialty of IM.
Which is a bit strange, considering in addition to the traditional anesthesia/PM&R , Pain is also listed under Neuro/Psych and Emergency Med!
Surely an IM/HPM boarded doc would be just as capable as an EM or psychiatrist in learning the specialty...

@Birdstrike

Yeah man of course. I'm EM and pain boarded. The field really should be its own specialty with subspecialty training on MIS TBH. Nonetheless it is what it is. I think big problem is you have no way as an IM doc to sit for the pain boards bc ABIM doesn't cosponsor it and programs want their graduates to be BE/BC. They have interventional spin fellowships that are no accredited you can probably get into and learn the skills for what its worth - most of them cater to PMR but I don't see why they wouldn't consider someone like yourself.

 

[Entadus]

Yeah man of course. I'm EM and pain boarded. The field really should be its own specialty with subspecialty training on MIS TBH. Nonetheless it is what it is. I think big problem is you have no way as an IM doc to sit for the pain boards bc ABIM doesn't cosponsor it and programs want their graduates to be BE/BC. They have interventional spin fellowships that are no accredited you can probably get into and learn the skills for what its worth - most of them cater to PMR but I don't see why they wouldn't consider someone like yourself.

Thanks, that's helpful. By the way, what is "MIS"?

And what are the pros/cons of doing non-accredited (vs ACGME accredited) pain fellowship?

 

[A Deep Breath]

In this context, probably means minimally invasive surgery.