International in despair

[Fakesmile]

I'm a Canadian student.
From the MSAR, I'm shocked to learn that most schools accept 0 international students.
Even those that accept internationals do so at an extremely low rate of 1-10%.

For NYU, out of 160 matriculants, only 1 was international.
For Einstein, out of 184 matriculants, only 7 were internationals.
For Columbia, 9 out of 155.
Other schools are even worse.

I am pretty sure that, even though the average GPA of matriculants is 3.6-3.9 for most schools, the average only for internationals would be 4.0 or very close like 3.95, considering such a low rate of acceptance for internationals. (Internationals must be competing against each other, basically.)

I'm starting to lose hope.

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[Retsage]

Learn to read the numbers better.

AECOM:
Out of state matriculated/applied - 1.85%
Internationals matriculated/applied - 1.36%

Columbia:
OOS - 1.88%
Int - 2.11%

NYU:
OOS - 1.51%
Int - 0.05%

So only NYU really shows a significant difference (Columbia is actually better for international applicants), and this is based on data from one year. It may just be that a lot of the people NYU accepted went to another school with financial aid (like Columbia). Moreover, in many schools, Canadians aren't considered international, just out of state.

 

[phospho]

dude, i don't mean to sound like an ass, but why do don't you attend med school at where you came from? we invest in the people who will actually practice here... i.e. usually the people who are FROM here...

like every other country in the world...

good luck though...

 

[bozz]

I'm a Canadian student.
From the MSAR, I'm shocked to learn that most schools accept 0 international students.
Even those that accept internationals do so at an extremely low rate of 1-10%.

For NYU, out of 160 matriculants, only 1 was international.
For Einstein, out of 184 matriculants, only 7 were internationals.
For Columbia, 9 out of 155.
Other schools are even worse.

I am pretty sure that, even though the average GPA of matriculants is 3.6-3.9 for most schools, the average only for internationals would be 4.0 or very close like 3.95, considering such a low rate of acceptance for internationals. (Internationals must be competing against each other, basically.)

I'm starting to lose hope.

lol relax.. those numbers are not true at all. You're reading the numbers all wrong. Look at the # interviewed!

 

[Fakesmile]

Learn to read the numbers better.

AECOM:
Out of state matriculated/applied - 1.85%
Internationals matriculated/applied - 1.36%

Columbia:
OOS - 1.88%
Int - 2.11%

NYU:
OOS - 1.51%
Int - 0.05%

So only NYU really shows a significant difference (Columbia is actually better for international applicants), and this is based on data from one year. It may just be that a lot of the people NYU accepted went to another school with financial aid (like Columbia). Moreover, in many schools, Canadians aren't considered international, just out of state.

lol relax.. those numbers are not true at all. You're reading the numbers all wrong. Look at the # interviewed!

OMG I'm so stupid lol..... (embarrassed)
Thanks for your posts.

 

[Retsage]

dude, i don't mean to sound like an ass, but why do don't you attend med school at where you came from? we invest in the people who will actually practice here... i.e. usually the people who are FROM here...

like every other country in the world...

good luck though...

Blow us.

 

[rama kandra]

Well perhaps the OP intends to study in the US and stay? We don't know that, and also the US education system is really good - why shouldn't anyone have a shot at it?

 

[ar2388]

Well perhaps the OP intends to study in the US and stay? We don't know that, and also the US education system is really good - why shouldn't anyone have a shot at it?

for college and grad school... shame we still suck at everything before college

 

[HeatherMD]

Well perhaps the OP intends to study in the US and stay? We don't know that, and also the US education system is really good - why shouldn't anyone have a shot at it?

The US education system is a global laughingstock. Most of us just marvel you can produce such brilliant graduates and impressive institutions like Harvard with your dismal highschool system and the gross discrepancy between undergraduate institutions.

To the OP, you'll be fine, I wouldn't worry too much about it. There's some schools that simply say no to all international applicants, but there's a few that can even be considered Canadian-friendly.
Like any other medical school, you just have to sell yourself well. If your reasons for wanting to attend a US med school is sincere (not simply a lack of acceptances to Canadian institutions), the school will see that and you'll have a good shot.

 

[Retsage]

^
Have you ever considered pulling your head out of your ass and not rambling borderline incoherently about how Canada is number one and America is full of *****s and losers? Every thread you post in, the same nationalistic bull****. The US post-secondary education system is second to none.

 

[236116]

The US education system is a global laughingstock. Most of us just marvel you can produce such brilliant graduates and impressive institutions like Harvard with your dismal highschool system and the gross discrepancy between undergraduate institutions.

The US post-secondary education system is second to none.

We suck, actually. Thanks to NCLB, it's going more downhill. Granted, other systems suck too, but the US education system from preK-12 is useless.

 

[rama kandra]

I have no idea why you would assume I was talking about the K-12 system in the US... I meant our post-secondary education ie - college and beyond is the best in the world.

But besides the point, I think the OP needs to look at each schools policy toward international acceptances.

 

[Thriller]

The US education system is a global laughingstock. Most of us just marvel you can produce such brilliant graduates and impressive institutions like Harvard with your dismal highschool system and the gross discrepancy between undergraduate institutions.

Having lived in three western european countries I'm not quite sure what you mean by the US education system being a global laughingstock? I never heard anybody over there disregard my US education as second rate. I also never felt that I was intellectually inferior to my european friends. The latest math & science youth study shows a cluster of Asian countries leading the world. The next highest group includes the US, along with various european countries. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081210171906.htm
Our education system doesn't lead the world, but we're far from being a disgrace.

 

[Retsage]

Post-secondary.

 

[236116]

Post-secondary.

heather was talking about secondary school?

the uni system... well... there are really good schools, and there are diploma mills, and everything in between.

 

[Retsage]

She also questioned the entire post-secondary system by talking about discrepancies between good and bad schools. But it's mainly just the irritating, jingoistic attitude she always brings to threads.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

What's wrong with Canadian med schools? Aren't they very good.

 

[RoyBasch]

I'm a Canadian student.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but aren't Canadians given some benefit over other internationals? i.e. schools have the preference (assuming they have no instate preference) Americans > Canadians > all others?
-Roy

 

[HeatherMD]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but aren't Canadians given some benefit over other internationals? i.e. schools have the preference (assuming they have no instate preference) Americans > Canadians > all others?
-Roy

I think so, some people on SDN have said there's a few schools that treat Canadians as out-of-state students instead of of international.

 

[HeatherMD]

^
Have you ever considered pulling your head out of your ass and not rambling borderline incoherently about how Canada is number one and America is full of *****s and losers? Every thread you post in, the same nationalistic bull****. The US post-secondary education system is second to none.

Take a breather, Retsage. Jesus.

 

[Fakesmile]

I think so, some people on SDN have said there's a few schools that treat Canadians as out-of-state students instead of of international.

I'd like to know what those schools are.

 

[bozz]

Having attended high school in both Canada and the U.S, for me, there was no difference in the quality of education I got.

 

[bozz]

I'd like to know what those schools are.

Harvard, Yale, Johns Hopkins, most top schools. The best don't care where you're from.

Some other schools that come to mind: Case Western, Dartmouth, UT Southwestern, UT Galveston... << the Texas schools don't hesitate if you show an interest in them. They're public. They get few international applicants and seem to appreciate the interest. for example.. some that come to mind

Apply to many schools. I received interviews at some schools in New York City that had very low international interview rates.. but got rejected at others that had very promising international numbers. You never know.

 

[M3dhop3ful]

Just an FYI for NYU, the USNews statistic showed a % accepted for those interview to be even greater than 50%, bigger than the ~ 50% for OOS and IS applicants. Again, learn to read the numbers. Number accepted =/= number matriculated, and the latter often underestimates our potential because many of us will choose canada over US due to 1/3 tuition prices.

 

[cbrons]

We suck, actually. Thanks to NCLB, it's going more downhill. Granted, other systems suck too, but the US education system from preK-12 is useless.

Its not just no child left behind, its the whole nationalization of our educational system (Dept. of Education). They've been completely and utterly worthless... that's why those who can afford it send their kids to private schools or home school.

 

[cbrons]

I think so, some people on SDN have said there's a few schools that treat Canadians as out-of-state students instead of of international.

Why would they treat Canadians as out of state? Canada is a country. You seem to have a pretty big sense of entitlement for someone who pays absolutely no taxes to support a foreign education system and its institutions. Just because its American doesn't mean its the Land of Milk and Honey where everyone who comes to the table is entitled to a seat.

 

[236116]

Its not just no child left behind, its the whole nationalization of our educational system (Dept. of Education). They've been completely and utterly worthless... that's why those who can afford it send their kids to private schools or home school.

i know, it's been broken for a while... nclb just made it worse.

 

[RoyBasch]

Why would they treat Canadians as out of state? Canada is a country. You seem to have a pretty big sense of entitlement for someone who pays absolutely no taxes to support a foreign education system and its institutions. Just because its American doesn't mean its the Land of Milk and Honey where everyone who comes to the table is entitled to a seat.

Calm down cbrons, I don't think she is saying she is "entitled" to an American education, she was just stating objectively that some American medical schools view Canadians differently than other internationals. As for "why" I do not know, but its up to the medical schools to decide how they want to shape their class.
-Roy

 

[HolyGrail]

Having attended high school in both Canada and the U.S, for me, there was no difference in the quality of education I got.

Having also attended schools in Canada and the United States, I will say that my U.S. schools were better than my Canadian schools for the most part... But this is regionally biased.

I think that Inner City schools probably really bring down the U.S. secondary schools. If you're talking about the same demographics, the U.S. is better.

Inner city schools being terrible is one of the shameful facts about U.S. high schools =(

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

The US education system is a global laughingstock. Most of us just marvel you can produce such brilliant graduates and impressive institutions like Harvard with your dismal highschool system and the gross discrepancy between undergraduate institutions.

To the OP, you'll be fine, I wouldn't worry too much about it. There's some schools that simply say no to all international applicants, but there's a few that can even be considered Canadian-friendly.
Like any other medical school, you just have to sell yourself well. If your reasons for wanting to attend a US med school is sincere (not simply a lack of acceptances to Canadian institutions), the school will see that and you'll have a good shot.

My parents were born and raised in Nova Scotia and got out for economic reasons. I have no ax to grind about Canada in general but I have to say that some of these Canadian posters here are ridiculously chauvinistic.

Canadians keep saying it's more difficult to get into Canadian schools than American schools but the fact is many Canadian schools don't even require the MCAT. Look at the statistics in the back of the MSAR and you will see that the stats at Canadian schools that require the MCAT are not terribly impressive. The University of Saskatchewan has a median MCAT of 24!

If our educational system is a joke why do Canadians want to come here and learn from American professors? When was the last time a Canadian won a Nobel prize in ANYTHING? Australia has about as big a population as Canada and two Aussies won a Nobel in physiology just a few years ago.

I believe the sentiment that American medical schools should serve Americans first and everyone else second is quite understandable. Americans pay enormous taxes to support our system. We now have corporate tax rates that are higher than those of China and France!

Have Mr. Harper divert some tax money to Canadian schools.

 

[rkaz]

OP, if your reasons to come to a US school is due to an inability to get a spot in a Canadian medical school.... you may want to consider applying to St. George's University in Grenada. A LOT of Canadians are students there.

Otherwise, you might consider applying to US osteopathic schools, as many are private. However, I don't know too much about this option, as I don't know about licensing issues with a DO degree if you want to return to Canada to practice (though you can check on this). So applying to St. George's may also be a good idea for you if the US or Canadian medical schools don't work out. There are options... don't despair.

 

[chiz2kul]

Harvard, Yale, Johns Hopkins, most top schools. The best don't care where you're from.

Some other schools that come to mind: Case Western, Dartmouth, UT Southwestern, UT Galveston... << the Texas schools don't hesitate if you show an interest in them. They're public. They get few international applicants and seem to appreciate the interest. for example.. some that come to mind

Apply to many schools. I received interviews at some schools in New York City that had very low international interview rates.. but got rejected at others that had very promising international numbers. You never know.

Good call. I'm not even canadian international, i'm international international lol and got accepted to 2 of those schools u mentioned.
N ya try to get 'instate residency' in a sweet state like tx or i think FL. U'll be fine if you've got decent numbers, EC, a sweet story n if you sell urself well.

 

[chiz2kul]

dude, i don't mean to sound like an ass, but why do don't you attend med school at where you came from? we invest in the people who will actually practice here... i.e. usually the people who are FROM here...

like every other country in the world...

good luck though...

Dont mean to be condescending but you do sound like one for saying that.
Dont you know that many int'l students come to study n eventually practice here? and there are tons of factors that make int'l students leave their country n fam n culture to come here....one of such cld be the disparity in educational standards btw the 2 countries. Educate yourself.

 

[236116]

Good call. I'm not even canadian international, i'm international international lol and got accepted to 2 of those schools u mentioned.
N ya try to get 'instate residency' in a sweet state like tx or i think FL. U'll be fine if you've got decent numbers, EC, a sweet story n if you sell urself well.

Dont mean to be condescending but you do sound like one for saying that.
Dont you know that many int'l students come to study n eventually practice here? and there are tons of factors that make int'l students leave their country n fam n culture to come here....one of such cld be the disparity in educational standards btw the 2 countries. Educate yourself.

translation?

 

[murfettie]

how are you going to get the loans for it??

I'm a Canadian student.
From the MSAR, I'm shocked to learn that most schools accept 0 international students.
Even those that accept internationals do so at an extremely low rate of 1-10%.

For NYU, out of 160 matriculants, only 1 was international.
For Einstein, out of 184 matriculants, only 7 were internationals.
For Columbia, 9 out of 155.
Other schools are even worse.

I am pretty sure that, even though the average GPA of matriculants is 3.6-3.9 for most schools, the average only for internationals would be 4.0 or very close like 3.95, considering such a low rate of acceptance for internationals. (Internationals must be competing against each other, basically.)

I'm starting to lose hope.

 

[Kaustikos]

i know, it's been broken for a while... nclb just made it worse.

It was an idea. As bad as it was, you can't lambaste them for trying. People outside this country are quick to try and critique us but its' not like we aren't trying.

 

[236116]

It was an idea. As bad as it was, you can't lambaste them for trying. People outside this country are quick to try and critique us but its' not like we aren't trying.

Yeah, I know. I've got to get back to that "fixing the educational system" thing I was working on.

 

[Kaustikos]

Yeah, I know. I've got to get back to that "fixing the educational system" thing I was working on.

Make sure to put that on your app for med school

 

[scarletgirl777]

^
Have you ever considered pulling your head out of your ass and not rambling borderline incoherently about how Canada is number one and America is full of *****s and losers? Every thread you post in, the same nationalistic bull****. The US post-secondary education system is second to none.

You're kidding right????

The thing about the US post-secondary system (much like the healthcare system) is that there is great disparity. In countries like Canada, you can assume that all the four-year universities are pretty strong. Does not work that way here at ALL. Happening to have the top 10 or 15 or how many universities in the world does not meet that the entire system is leaps and bounds ahead (of Western peers).

 

[scarletgirl777]

What's wrong with Canadian med schools? Aren't they very good.

They're harder to get into than American schools. I have no idea how they actually compare, but I think that's why so many Canadians apply in the US.

 

[bozz]

Why would they treat Canadians as out of state?

It's a fact, that's why. Take a look at some of the interview #s for schools that have a large number of internationals, namely Canadians. Many of these schools interview the same % of Internationals as OOS... in some cases a higher % of int'ls are interviewed than OOSers.

Many private schools don't care. It's about the $$$, not some misplaced sense of nationalistic pride. In fact interviewers have tried convincing me that their education will prepare physicians to practice all over the world if that is of interest to me. If you've got the $, they'll let you in.

 

[scarletgirl777]

It's a fact, that's why. Take a look at some of the interview #s for schools that have a large number of internationals, namely Canadians. Many of these schools interview the same % of Internationals as OOS... in some cases a higher % of int'ls are interviewed than OOSers.

Many private schools don't care. It's about the $$$, not some misplaced sense of nationalistic pride. In fact interviewers have tried convincing me that their education will prepare physicians to practice all over the world if that is of interest to me. If you've got the $, they'll let you in.

I don't think private schools should be expected to have any loyalty to anything other than themselves...but I'd expect and hope that public schools would be different and show a much stronger preference. Have you personally found this to be true?

EDIT: Never mind, I just read your comment about TX schools.

 

[236116]

I don't think private schools should be expected to have any loyalty to anything other than themselves...but I'd expect and hope that public schools would be different and show a much stronger preference. Have you personally found this to be true?

most public schools show a strong preference to state residents. some don't accept any oos-ers, a few (wiche/wwami) only take a few states.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

I have no ax to grind about Canada in general but I have to say that some of these Canadian posters here are ridiculously chauvinistic.

 

[cbrons]

Happening to have the top 10 or 15 or how many universities in the world does not meet that the entire system is leaps and bounds ahead (of Western peers).

yeah it does

You're kidding right????

nope

 

[chessknt]

American society's emphasis on diversity that starts in primary education and continues for the rest of the elarners life can help explain why we dont excel in certain areas. Sure our middle schoolers arent doing calculus like the kids in China are, but they are also being taught physical ed, music, creative writing, etc because our society doesnt like the concept of pidgeon holing everyone into a specific genre.

 

[236116]

American society's emphasis on diversity that starts in primary education and continues for the rest of the elarners life can help explain why we dont excel in certain areas. Sure our middle schoolers arent doing calculus like the kids in China are, but they are also being taught physical ed, music, creative writing, etc because our society doesnt like the concept of pidgeon holing everyone into a specific genre.

pe, music, and creative writing are relics of the 90's. too much teaching the test and cuts to art funding. plus pe is not easily equalised.

 

[chessknt]

That is true as they have managed to cut funding to a lot of these programs. The education system is indeed need of redress just as much as the healthcare system is.

 

[Lukkie]

oh man Retsage just went off on her

 

[bozz]

I don't think private schools should be expected to have any loyalty to anything other than themselves...but I'd expect and hope that public schools would be different and show a much stronger preference. Have you personally found this to be true?

EDIT: Never mind, I just read your comment about TX schools.

My situation is weird. Out of the 3 schools I've gotten into, 1 is private and 2 are public.