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International in despair

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by Fakesmile, Dec 31, 2008.

  1. Fakesmile

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    I'm a Canadian student.
    From the MSAR, I'm shocked to learn that most schools accept 0 international students.
    Even those that accept internationals do so at an extremely low rate of 1-10%.

    For NYU, out of 160 matriculants, only 1 was international.
    For Einstein, out of 184 matriculants, only 7 were internationals.
    For Columbia, 9 out of 155.
    Other schools are even worse.

    I am pretty sure that, even though the average GPA of matriculants is 3.6-3.9 for most schools, the average only for internationals would be 4.0 or very close like 3.95, considering such a low rate of acceptance for internationals. (Internationals must be competing against each other, basically.)

    I'm starting to lose hope.
     
    #1 Fakesmile, Dec 31, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2008
  2. Retsage

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    Learn to read the numbers better.

    AECOM:
    Out of state matriculated/applied - 1.85%
    Internationals matriculated/applied - 1.36%

    Columbia:
    OOS - 1.88%
    Int - 2.11%

    NYU:
    OOS - 1.51%
    Int - 0.05%

    So only NYU really shows a significant difference (Columbia is actually better for international applicants), and this is based on data from one year. It may just be that a lot of the people NYU accepted went to another school with financial aid (like Columbia). Moreover, in many schools, Canadians aren't considered international, just out of state.
     
  3. phospho

    phospho SDN Lifetime Donor
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    dude, i don't mean to sound like an ass, but why do don't you attend med school at where you came from? we invest in the people who will actually practice here... i.e. usually the people who are FROM here...

    like every other country in the world...

    good luck though...:luck:
     
  4. bozz

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    lol relax.. those numbers are not true at all. You're reading the numbers all wrong. Look at the # interviewed!
     
  5. Fakesmile

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    OMG I'm so stupid lol..... (embarrassed)
    Thanks for your posts.
     
  6. Retsage

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    Blow us.
     
  7. rama kandra

    rama kandra Actual Psychiatrist jk
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    Well perhaps the OP intends to study in the US and stay? We don't know that, and also the US education system is really good - why shouldn't anyone have a shot at it?
     
  8. ar2388

    ar2388 rads resident
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    for college and grad school... shame we still suck at everything before college
     
  9. HeatherMD

    HeatherMD Queen of Passiveagressiva
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    The US education system is a global laughingstock. Most of us just marvel you can produce such brilliant graduates and impressive institutions like Harvard with your dismal highschool system and the gross discrepancy between undergraduate institutions.

    To the OP, you'll be fine, I wouldn't worry too much about it. There's some schools that simply say no to all international applicants, but there's a few that can even be considered Canadian-friendly.
    Like any other medical school, you just have to sell yourself well. If your reasons for wanting to attend a US med school is sincere (not simply a lack of acceptances to Canadian institutions), the school will see that and you'll have a good shot.
     
  10. Retsage

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    ^
    Have you ever considered pulling your head out of your ass and not rambling borderline incoherently about how Canada is number one and America is full of morons and losers? Every thread you post in, the same nationalistic bull****. The US post-secondary education system is second to none.
     
  11. 236116

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    We suck, actually. Thanks to NCLB, it's going more downhill. Granted, other systems suck too, but the US education system from preK-12 is useless.
     
  12. rama kandra

    rama kandra Actual Psychiatrist jk
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    I have no idea why you would assume I was talking about the K-12 system in the US... I meant our post-secondary education ie - college and beyond is the best in the world.

    But besides the point, I think the OP needs to look at each schools policy toward international acceptances.
     
  13. Thriller

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  14. Retsage

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    Post-secondary.
     
  15. 236116

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    heather was talking about secondary school?

    the uni system... well... there are really good schools, and there are diploma mills, and everything in between.
     
  16. Retsage

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    She also questioned the entire post-secondary system by talking about discrepancies between good and bad schools. But it's mainly just the irritating, jingoistic attitude she always brings to threads.
     
  17. Pinkertinkle

    Pinkertinkle 2003 Member
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    What's wrong with Canadian med schools? Aren't they very good.
     
  18. RoyBasch

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    Someone correct me if I am wrong, but aren't Canadians given some benefit over other internationals? i.e. schools have the preference (assuming they have no instate preference) Americans > Canadians > all others?
    -Roy
     
  19. HeatherMD

    HeatherMD Queen of Passiveagressiva
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    I think so, some people on SDN have said there's a few schools that treat Canadians as out-of-state students instead of of international.
     
  20. HeatherMD

    HeatherMD Queen of Passiveagressiva
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    Take a breather, Retsage. Jesus.
     
  21. Fakesmile

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    I'd like to know what those schools are.
     
  22. bozz

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    Having attended high school in both Canada and the U.S, for me, there was no difference in the quality of education I got.
     
  23. bozz

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    Harvard, Yale, Johns Hopkins, most top schools. The best don't care where you're from.

    Some other schools that come to mind: Case Western, Dartmouth, UT Southwestern, UT Galveston... << the Texas schools don't hesitate if you show an interest in them. They're public. They get few international applicants and seem to appreciate the interest. for example.. some that come to mind

    Apply to many schools. I received interviews at some schools in New York City that had very low international interview rates.. but got rejected at others that had very promising international numbers. You never know.
     
  24. M3dhop3ful

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    Just an FYI for NYU, the USNews statistic showed a % accepted for those interview to be even greater than 50%, bigger than the ~ 50% for OOS and IS applicants. Again, learn to read the numbers. Number accepted =/= number matriculated, and the latter often underestimates our potential because many of us will choose canada over US due to 1/3 tuition prices.
     
  25. cbrons

    cbrons Ratatoskr! *Roar*
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    Its not just no child left behind, its the whole nationalization of our educational system (Dept. of Education). They've been completely and utterly worthless... that's why those who can afford it send their kids to private schools or home school.
     
  26. cbrons

    cbrons Ratatoskr! *Roar*
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    Why would they treat Canadians as out of state? Canada is a country. You seem to have a pretty big sense of entitlement for someone who pays absolutely no taxes to support a foreign education system and its institutions. Just because its American doesn't mean its the Land of Milk and Honey where everyone who comes to the table is entitled to a seat.
     
  27. 236116

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    i know, it's been broken for a while... nclb just made it worse.
     
  28. RoyBasch

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    Calm down cbrons, I don't think she is saying she is "entitled" to an American education, she was just stating objectively that some American medical schools view Canadians differently than other internationals. As for "why" I do not know, but its up to the medical schools to decide how they want to shape their class.
    -Roy
     
  29. HolyGrail

    HolyGrail A magnum opus suscipio
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    Having also attended schools in Canada and the United States, I will say that my U.S. schools were better than my Canadian schools for the most part... But this is regionally biased.

    I think that Inner City schools probably really bring down the U.S. secondary schools. If you're talking about the same demographics, the U.S. is better.

    Inner city schools being terrible is one of the shameful facts about U.S. high schools =(
     
  30. Obnoxious Dad

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    My parents were born and raised in Nova Scotia and got out for economic reasons. I have no ax to grind about Canada in general but I have to say that some of these Canadian posters here are ridiculously chauvinistic.

    Canadians keep saying it's more difficult to get into Canadian schools than American schools but the fact is many Canadian schools don't even require the MCAT. Look at the statistics in the back of the MSAR and you will see that the stats at Canadian schools that require the MCAT are not terribly impressive. The University of Saskatchewan has a median MCAT of 24!

    If our educational system is a joke why do Canadians want to come here and learn from American professors? When was the last time a Canadian won a Nobel prize in ANYTHING? Australia has about as big a population as Canada and two Aussies won a Nobel in physiology just a few years ago.

    I believe the sentiment that American medical schools should serve Americans first and everyone else second is quite understandable. Americans pay enormous taxes to support our system. We now have corporate tax rates that are higher than those of China and France!

    Have Mr. Harper divert some tax money to Canadian schools.
     
  31. rkaz

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    OP, if your reasons to come to a US school is due to an inability to get a spot in a Canadian medical school.... you may want to consider applying to St. George's University in Grenada. A LOT of Canadians are students there.

    Otherwise, you might consider applying to US osteopathic schools, as many are private. However, I don't know too much about this option, as I don't know about licensing issues with a DO degree if you want to return to Canada to practice (though you can check on this). So applying to St. George's may also be a good idea for you if the US or Canadian medical schools don't work out. There are options... don't despair.
     
  32. chiz2kul

    chiz2kul t.roll.ed for Banning
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    Good call. I'm not even canadian international, i'm international international lol and got accepted to 2 of those schools u mentioned.
    N ya try to get 'instate residency' in a sweet state like tx or i think FL. U'll be fine if you've got decent numbers, EC, a sweet story n if you sell urself well.
     
  33. chiz2kul

    chiz2kul t.roll.ed for Banning
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    Dont mean to be condescending but you do sound like one for saying that.
    Dont you know that many int'l students come to study n eventually practice here? and there are tons of factors that make int'l students leave their country n fam n culture to come here....one of such cld be the disparity in educational standards btw the 2 countries. Educate yourself.
     
  34. 236116

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    translation?
     
  35. murfettie

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    how are you going to get the loans for it??

     
  36. Kaustikos

    Kaustikos Archerize It
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    It was an idea. As bad as it was, you can't lambaste them for trying. People outside this country are quick to try and critique us but its' not like we aren't trying.
     
  37. 236116

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    Yeah, I know. I've got to get back to that "fixing the educational system" thing I was working on.
     
  38. Kaustikos

    Kaustikos Archerize It
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    :laugh:


    Make sure to put that on your app for med school
     
  39. scarletgirl777

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    You're kidding right????

    The thing about the US post-secondary system (much like the healthcare system) is that there is great disparity. In countries like Canada, you can assume that all the four-year universities are pretty strong. Does not work that way here at ALL. Happening to have the top 10 or 15 or how many universities in the world does not meet that the entire system is leaps and bounds ahead (of Western peers).
     
  40. scarletgirl777

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    They're harder to get into than American schools. I have no idea how they actually compare, but I think that's why so many Canadians apply in the US.
     
  41. bozz

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    It's a fact, that's why. Take a look at some of the interview #s for schools that have a large number of internationals, namely Canadians. Many of these schools interview the same % of Internationals as OOS... in some cases a higher % of int'ls are interviewed than OOSers.

    Many private schools don't care. It's about the $$$, not some misplaced sense of nationalistic pride. In fact interviewers have tried convincing me that their education will prepare physicians to practice all over the world if that is of interest to me. If you've got the $, they'll let you in.
     
    #41 bozz, Jan 1, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2009
  42. scarletgirl777

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    I don't think private schools should be expected to have any loyalty to anything other than themselves...but I'd expect and hope that public schools would be different and show a much stronger preference. Have you personally found this to be true?

    EDIT: Never mind, I just read your comment about TX schools.
     
    #42 scarletgirl777, Jan 1, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2009
  43. 236116

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    most public schools show a strong preference to state residents. some don't accept any oos-ers, a few (wiche/wwami) only take a few states.
     
  44. KeyzerSoze

    KeyzerSoze Scrambled Member
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    :thumbup:
     
  45. cbrons

    cbrons Ratatoskr! *Roar*
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    yeah it does

    nope
     
  46. chessknt87

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    American society's emphasis on diversity that starts in primary education and continues for the rest of the elarners life can help explain why we dont excel in certain areas. Sure our middle schoolers arent doing calculus like the kids in China are, but they are also being taught physical ed, music, creative writing, etc because our society doesnt like the concept of pidgeon holing everyone into a specific genre.
     
  47. 236116

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    pe, music, and creative writing are relics of the 90's. too much teaching the test and cuts to art funding. plus pe is not easily equalised.
     
  48. chessknt87

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    That is true as they have managed to cut funding to a lot of these programs. The education system is indeed need of redress just as much as the healthcare system is.
     
  49. Lukkie

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    oh man Retsage just went off on her :laugh:
     
  50. bozz

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    My situation is weird. Out of the 3 schools I've gotten into, 1 is private and 2 are public.
     

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