International in despair

[Retsage]

---

Members do not see this ad.

oh man Retsage just went off on her

It was cathartic! 😀

 

[onestepatatime]

Canadians keep saying it's more difficult to get into Canadian schools than American schools but the fact is many Canadian schools don't even require the MCAT. Look at the statistics in the back of the MSAR and you will see that the stats at Canadian schools that require the MCAT are not terribly impressive. The University of Saskatchewan has a median MCAT of 24!

If our educational system is a joke why do Canadians want to come here and learn from American professors? When was the last time a Canadian won a Nobel prize in ANYTHING? Australia has about as big a population as Canada and two Aussies won a Nobel in physiology just a few years ago.

1) I am not sure where you are getting your information that many Canadian Schools don't require MCAT. From all 17 schools, I know only McMaster, University of Ottawa, and Northern Ontario do not require MCAT and they are impressive schools. The number of schools available is one of the determining factors why Canadians are going international for a medical education. There is not enough spots.

2) What does having a Canadian going to the States for an education has anything to do with the amount of Canadians winning a Nobel prize?

Canadians won Nobel prizes in the past and shaped the world we live in today. Come on, Sir Frederick Banting; insulin!!! You know how many current research projects are going on around the world just because of this discovery and how many lives are being saved because of it!


The American medical education system is a fine system and respected around the globe, but for everyone, try not to disrespect another country's education system in order to prove your arguement.

Happy New Year!

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

1) I am not sure where you are getting your information that many Canadian Schools don't require MCAT. From all 17 schools, I know only McMaster, University of Ottawa, and Northern Ontario do not require MCAT and they are impressive schools. The number of schools available is one of the determining factors why Canadians are going international for a medical education. There is not enough spots.

2) What does having a Canadian going to the States for an education has anything to do with the amount of Canadians winning a Nobel prize?

Canadians won Nobel prizes in the past and shaped the world we live in today. Come on, Sir Frederick Banting; insulin!!! You know how many current research projects are going on around the world just because of this discovery and how many lives are being saved because of it!


The American medical education system is a fine system and respected around the globe, but for everyone, try not to disrespect another country's education system in order to prove your arguement.

Happy New Year!

Banting won the Nobel in 1923. His accomplishment was stupendous but can you come up with something more recent?

Besides the three schools you mentioned the French speaking schools at Laval, Montreal and Sherbrooke do not require the MCAT or an analog of it. Can you show me an American school (DO's included) that doesn't require the MCAT? Wouldn't everyone like to get a pass on the MCAT?

I was responding to the all-too-frequent chauvinistic posts made by Canadians that reflect their superior attitude about American education. The specific post claimed that American education was the laughing stock of the world. I found it revolting. It's reminiscent of the hee haw I hear from my Canadian cousins.

At least you didn't call me a bully.🙂

 

[onestepatatime]

Oh I read most of the posts on this thread and that quote stood out. I wasn't picking out you specifically.

The 3 schools you mentioned required you to demonstrate you can speak French. Not everyone can speak French which limits the number of applicants applying. However, just because a school doesn't require the MCAT in the admission process, doesn't makes them any less of a school.

From my memory, the latest Canadian who won a Nobel prize was in 1993 by Dr. Michael Smith in Chemistry.

I understand what you are trying to say but for a Nobel Prize, what nationality you are are what insitution he/she got her education are secondary to their findings and goal toward vasting our knowledge of the world.

I agree that what was said in the previous posts about comparing both education systems isn't as "just". In my opinion, the quality of an education shouldn't be determined from which country you got it from or which insitution, because at the end of it, we are all going to be colleagues and using our education to work to improve the health of society.

 

[kalia]

I have a feeling that many Canadians who actually apply to the US are from Ontario, and that's because most medical schools in Ontario offer no preference for their in-province ppl. Except for U of Ottawa, which offers preference for individuals in Ottawa (and thus this still excludes many ppl from Ontario, aka Torontonians), Mac and Western Ontario (which offers preference for individuals in London, and thus still excludes many ppl from Ontario, aka Torontonians), schools like U of Toronto and Queen's offers absolutely no preference for in-province ppl, making it harder for Ontario students to get a seat in a medical school. Other provinces accept mainly their own ppl (about 9-10 seats are reserved for out of province, but that's about it) so really, what choice do Ontario ppl have except for applying to the States and their own province?

 

[rama kandra]

1. it is difficult to get into the US MD system no matter who you are
2. it is not as difficult to get into the CA MD system if you are an american.

3. take what you will from the above 2 statements.

 

[RoyBasch]

2. it is not as difficult to get into the CA MD system if you are an american.

Really?

Also, a previous poster said there are not enough schools in Canada for Canadians. Canada has less than one tenth of the population of the United States. So therefore the U.S. should have ~ 170 MD schools, it has far less than that. (yeah I did not control for the number of seats at each school, that would be too tiresome of a calculation and I don't feel that emphatic about this point). Tho I do believe US medical schools have a first responsibility to US citizens who will likely practice in the US as these schools receive public funding. Even private schools receive quite a bit of NIH money, which is derived from US taxes. It's not a "false sense of nationalism" that US schools prefer US applicants.

Note though, some of the Canadians who come to the United States are moving here permanently. Two of my roommates are Canadian but they have lived permanently in the United States for 10+ years and will probably never go back to Canada except as tourists (both carry Canadian and US passports and have dual citizenship).
-Roy

 

[scarletgirl777]

Really?

Also, a previous poster said there are not enough schools in Canada for Canadians. Canada has less than one tenth of the population of the United States. So therefore the U.S. should have ~ 170 MD schools, it has far less than that. (yeah I did not control for the number of seats at each school, that would be too tiresome of a calculation and I don't feel that emphatic about this point). Tho I do believe US medical schools have a first responsibility to US citizens who will likely practice in the US as these schools receive public funding. Even private schools receive quite a bit of NIH money, which is derived from US taxes. It's not a "false sense of nationalism" that US schools prefer US applicants.

Note though, some of the Canadians who come to the United States are moving here permanently. Two of my roommates are Canadian but they have lived permanently in the United States for 10+ years and will probably never go back to Canada except as tourists (both carry Canadian and US passports and have dual citizenship).
-Roy

The percentage of Canadian applicants who fail to get into med school is higher for some reason. Americans pay about 3-4 times more tuition to matriculate at Canadian schools, so yes, it is easier for an American to get into a school than a Canadian who is not from the school's province because money talks. And the US does have close to 170 med schools when you include DO. (Canadians do not have DO schools and do not always give DOs full practice rights)

 

[angrypremed]

Ok, the truth is that, the only reason a Canadian would go for an American school is because its easier to get into. Think about it, Canadian schools charge 1/3 the price and a Canadian can get scholarships from them and can work in the US pretty easily after. Also, I dont want to hit on anyone, but my friends in Canadian high schools 3 years ago, had a 68% average in high school! They were denied from all Canadian Universities but went to American ones...tells you something (the US schools only care about money). Also I had 8 friends come to the american school i go to because they were all failing the Canadian school, not to mention the American system only has A when the Canadian has A + which is 97 %, so yeah Canadian schools are harder.

 

[236116]

The American schools are harder for Canadians to get into...

 

[angrypremed]

Then whats the reason they go into it? Drives me crazy, if you graduate from a Canadian Med school you can work in both places but if you graduate from an American School you can only work in the US

 

[scarletgirl777]

It was cathartic! 😀

Then whats the reason they go into it? Drives me crazy, if you graduate from a Canadian Med school you can work in both places but if you graduate from an American School you can only work in the US

Only some of the Canadian schools are seen equivalently to US ones in residency directors eyes, right? Basically McGill and some others. So if you wanted to practice in the US but couldn't get into those specific schools, maybe because you lived in a province where none of your schools prepared you for the US boards, it would make more sense to go to an American school.

 

[Ella Shepherd]

I'm a Canadian student.
From the MSAR, I'm shocked to learn that most schools accept 0 international students.
Even those that accept internationals do so at an extremely low rate of 1-10%.

For NYU, out of 160 matriculants, only 1 was international.
For Einstein, out of 184 matriculants, only 7 were internationals.
For Columbia, 9 out of 155.
Other schools are even worse.

I am pretty sure that, even though the average GPA of matriculants is 3.6-3.9 for most schools, the average only for internationals would be 4.0 or very close like 3.95, considering such a low rate of acceptance for internationals. (Internationals must be competing against each other, basically.)

I'm starting to lose hope.

Hello! This might help: List of US Schools Accepting Canadians

Check it out. I hope it helps. 🙂

 

[THH]

Ok, the truth is that, the only reason a Canadian would go for an American school is because its easier to get into. Think about it, Canadian schools charge 1/3 the price and a Canadian can get scholarships from them and can work in the US pretty easily after. Also, I dont want to hit on anyone, but my friends in Canadian high schools 3 years ago, had a 68% average in high school! They were denied from all Canadian Universities but went to American ones...tells you something (the US schools only care about money). Also I had 8 friends come to the american school i go to because they were all failing the Canadian school, not to mention the American system only has A when the Canadian has A + which is 97 %, so yeah Canadian schools are harder.

lol, anecdotal evidence is fun!

 

[Retsage]

Ontario applicants had a 20% matriculation rate last year. It makes a lot of sense to apply to the States, especially if you have a high MCAT (which Ontario schools don't give a damn about - they just use them as cutoffs or not at all).

 

[angrypremed]

Ontario applicants had a 20% matriculation rate last year. It makes a lot of sense to apply to the States, especially if you have a high MCAT (which Ontario schools don't give a damn about - they just use them as cutoffs or not at all).

Thats extremely true, they dont even care, I noticed that. But whats the point of going to an American if you can get into a Canadian med school as a Canadian (Talking about LCME schools the ones that are equiv)..? Unless you are planning to get into an Ivy league in the US. One more thing though, even if someone goes to Ivy league whats the difference if someone goes to a non-ivy league. My cousin told me that residency depends heavily on the USLME scores and not what school you attended.

 

[236116]

One more thing though, even if someone goes to Ivy league whats the difference if someone goes to a non-ivy league. My cousin told me that residency depends heavily on the USLME scores and not what school you attended.

For the most part, it is your scores, letters, interviews.

However, the letterhead on those LORs can open a few doors. The school you came from can open a few doors. It's not all residencies, or even all programs in a particular field. But it can, and has, and will continue to make a difference, however small.

Also, Ivy League is really only for the ugrad schools. That said, the top 20 or so-- the ones with name recog in the real world-- we could consider them to be "Ivy"...

 

[Retsage]

Why stay in Canada when I want to practice in the USA?

 

[angrypremed]

Why stay in Canada when I want to practice in the USA?

The schools cost much less and you can still practice in the US by going to a Canadian med school

 

[Retsage]

Schools I interviewed at, for the most part, will cost me about the same. They'll also make getting a residency there much easier and there are far more competitive residency positions available there than in Canada.

 

[angrypremed]

Schools I interviewed at, for the most part, will cost me about the same. They'll also make getting a residency there much easier and there are far more competitive residency positions available there than in Canada.

I agree with you on the competitive residency, but them costing about the same. Not sure about that, because when I asked about application they told me that the amount I am going to spend is the international rate which is much MORE than the non-international rate. 🙁

 

[HeatherMD]

Why would they treat Canadians as out of state? Canada is a country. You seem to have a pretty big sense of entitlement for someone who pays absolutely no taxes to support a foreign education system and its institutions. Just because its American doesn't mean its the Land of Milk and Honey where everyone who comes to the table is entitled to a seat.

I said this is just what I HEARD. It's not my personal "sense of entitlement", its a rumor.

PS. both my parents live in the USA and are paying US taxes so I don't think it would be that big of a crime to cross borders. Also, I'd still pay international tuition, which is higher to account for inferred tax difference.

 

[HeatherMD]

I have a feeling that many Canadians who actually apply to the US are from Ontario, and that's because most medical schools in Ontario offer no preference for their in-province ppl. Except for U of Ottawa, which offers preference for individuals in Ottawa (and thus this still excludes many ppl from Ontario, aka Torontonians), Mac and Western Ontario (which offers preference for individuals in London, and thus still excludes many ppl from Ontario, aka Torontonians), schools like U of Toronto and Queen's offers absolutely no preference for in-province ppl, making it harder for Ontario students to get a seat in a medical school. Other provinces accept mainly their own ppl (about 9-10 seats are reserved for out of province, but that's about it) so really, what choice do Ontario ppl have except for applying to the States and their own province?

It's true. The benefit of living in the province with the most medical schools is really hampered by the lack of preference for provincial students =p

A friend of mine is applying to one of the French-speaking schools and she says there's only like 40 applicants for 10 spots. I'm so taking advantage of that..

 

[orangeMango]

I'm starting to lose hope.

Don't lose hope! I am an international student and I had the same feelings as you. I have no green card, I am not a us citizen. I applied this cycle with the mindset of, "I hope I get one interview..."

I ended up getting interviewed at 8 schools: Four acceptances, three waitlists, and waiting to hear back from one more.

They may tell you these rates (my pre-med advisor told me sophmore year that i should apply to nursing school because the chances were so low that i would be successful in pre-med), but its up to you to show them what you want. If you want to be a doctor and go to med school in the US, you will be able to as long as you are willing to work for it. Good luck!!!!