International MD/PhD Program

[Domek]

Hi everyone,

I'm an M1 at an international 4-year MD program. This particular program has offered me the option of doing an accelerated 5-year MD/PhD. I'm not entirely sure how this would work...from what I understand, I would be doing some kind of research alongside the regular 4-year curriculum starting in M2, and ultimately have my own project completed by the end of the 5th year. Obviously I'm pretty skeptical.

Logistics aside, I wanted to ask all of you, what are your opinions of an international MD/PhD degree? For me, the end goal is a residency back in the US. I know about the difficulties of matching as an IMG, the importance of Step scores, US electives, etc. and I want to do everything I can. Do you think that taking an additional year to get the dual degree would be beneficial?

I have so many questions/concerns this year, and this is only one of them. That being said, I really appreciate everyone's input and help. Thank you!

D.

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[emergencycat]

This totally depends on whether, by "international 4-year MD program," you're talking about being in another first world country or are in a place like the Caribbean. If it's the former, then it absolutely could be useful because it would allow you time to publish, hopefully in the field that you wish to match, and to work under influential and prolific researchers. However, it sounds like it's the latter since it's somehow a five year program (that sounds far too quick; my MD/PhD colleagues often must spend much longer than that to get their PhDs and do research) and you say it's MD, not one of the other international medical degrees you see in places like Ireland and the UK (MB, MBBS, etc). In that case, it seems like a huge waste of time and money, and you should concentrate on doing well in your courses and rocking the steps. Best of luck with everything.

Edit: just realized that your location says "The North." Are you in Canada? I thought that Canadian MD/PhDs often took 8 or 9 years. Seems way too short of a time to do quality research and to obtain a PhD.

 

[Goro]

If you want o practice medicine in the US, go to a US medical school.

Hi everyone,

I'm an M1 at an international 4-year MD program. This particular program has offered me the option of doing an accelerated 5-year MD/PhD. I'm not entirely sure how this would work...from what I understand, I would be doing some kind of research alongside the regular 4-year curriculum starting in M2, and ultimately have my own project completed by the end of the 5th year. Obviously I'm pretty skeptical.

Logistics aside, I wanted to ask all of you, what are your opinions of an international MD/PhD degree? For me, the end goal is a residency back in the US. I know about the difficulties of matching as an IMG, the importance of Step scores, US electives, etc. and I want to do everything I can. Do you think that taking an additional year to get the dual degree would be beneficial?

I have so many questions/concerns this year, and this is only one of them. That being said, I really appreciate everyone's input and help. Thank you!

D.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

An extra year to get a PhD is a joke. If you are skeptical, guess what people reviewing your application will think.

 

[Domek]

This totally depends on whether, by "international 4-year MD program," you're talking about being in another first world country or are in a place like the Caribbean. If it's the former, then it absolutely could be useful because it would allow you time to publish, hopefully in the field that you wish to match, and to work under influential and prolific researchers. However, it sounds like it's the latter since it's somehow a five year program (that sounds far too quick; my MD/PhD colleagues often must spend much longer than that to get their PhDs and do research) and you say it's MD, not one of the other international medical degrees you see in places like Ireland and the UK (MB, MBBS, etc). In that case, it seems like a huge waste of time and money, and you should concentrate on doing well in your courses and rocking the steps. Best of luck with everything.

Edit: just realized that your location says "The North." Are you in Canada? I thought that Canadian MD/PhDs often took 8 or 9 years. Seems way too short of a time to do quality research and to obtain a PhD.

Second world country, so I wouldn't exactly be working with prolific researchers. On the other hand, I'm not paying an absurd amount to be here (at least relatively speaking) and I'm not jaded by medicine just yet so an extra year in school doesn't sound too bad.

An extra year to get a PhD is a joke. If you are skeptical, guess what people reviewing your application will think.

Really this is my biggest concern. I know program directors are skeptical enough of internationally-obtained MD. Do you think that doing the dual degree would somehow hurt my chances of getting a residency?

I guess what I'm really asking is, assuming that everything else (test scores, grades, time and money) is in order, would doing this help or hurt my overall chances of getting a residency? I mean, I've heard of people taking an extra year to do some research in order to strengthen their application, and that's pretty much how I'm viewing this right now.

And thanks again for the responses, I'm pretty on the fence about this.

 

[emergencycat]

Second world country, so I wouldn't exactly be working with prolific researchers. On the other hand, I'm not paying an absurd amount to be here (at least relatively speaking) and I'm not jaded by medicine just yet so an extra year in school doesn't sound too bad.



Really this is my biggest concern. I know program directors are skeptical enough of internationally-obtained MD. Do you think that doing the dual degree would somehow hurt my chances of getting a residency?

I guess what I'm really asking is, assuming that everything else (test scores, grades, time and money) is in order, would doing this help or hurt my overall chances of getting a residency? I mean, I've heard of people taking an extra year to do some research in order to strengthen their application, and that's pretty much how I'm viewing this right now.

And thanks again for the responses, I'm pretty on the fence about this.

Definitely listen to aProgDirector. At my school (US MD), an extra year of work would get you an MPH or MS degree. If the research year is productive, then it may help your application. From everything I've read and heard from people in medicine, publications help, and publications within the field that you're applying to help more. It sure doesn't sound like the PhD itself would be viewed like what a PhD from a first world country/well known institution would be. Maybe some programs would see it being more akin to a masters degree, since it would take you a similar amount of time as getting a masters during med school in the US would. Don't think it would be detrimental to your ap, just doesn't seem like it would be all that helpful. Time and money aren't a factor for you. I guess the question might be whether or not simply doing a research year could be equally beneficial than doing the PhD. Does the PhD require a lot of extra classes that would decrease your productivity during the year?

 

[Domek]

Definitely listen to aProgDirector. At my school (US MD), an extra year of work would get you an MPH or MS degree. If the research year is productive, then it may help your application. From everything I've read and heard from people in medicine, publications help, and publications within the field that you're applying to help more. It sure doesn't sound like the PhD itself would be viewed like what a PhD from a first world country/well known institution would be. Maybe some programs would see it being more akin to a masters degree, since it would take you a similar amount of time as getting a masters during med school in the US would. Don't think it would be detrimental to your ap, just doesn't seem like it would be all that helpful. Time and money aren't a factor for you. I guess the question might be whether or not simply doing a research year could be equally beneficial than doing the PhD. Does the PhD require a lot of extra classes that would decrease your productivity during the year?

All good points, I guess I really just need to look into the program a little more. I've heard that people usually get at least a couple of publications out of it, but like you said, I wouldn't want to fall behind in classes doing menial labor just for the title (even though we've all agreed that it's pretty impressive). Thanks for the advice!


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[emergencycat]

All good points, I guess I really just need to look into the program a little more. I've heard that people usually get at least a couple of publications out of it, but like you said, I wouldn't want to fall behind in classes doing menial labor just for the title (even though we've all agreed that it's pretty impressive). Thanks for the advice!


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Re-read what aProgDirector wrote: "An extra year to get a PhD is a joke. If you are skeptical, guess what people reviewing your application will think." His advice is far more insightful and relevant than mine, as I'm just a medical student. The whole point of what everyone is saying is that it's not necessarily impressive at all, that doing productive research is the only impressive thing that would come out of this and doing that research doesn't necessarily have to include getting a PhD. The respect a PhD garners is directly proportional to the work that goes into getting it (how productive you were, the implications of your research, the prestige of the school, and being of a standardized quality--e.g. not taking just one year to get). Definitely do some more research, and talk to some doctors in the specialty you're trying to match to about whether a PhD would be valuable. Hope you match to your preferred specialty, and best of luck with everything!

 

[Domek]

Re-read what aProgDirector wrote: "An extra year to get a PhD is a joke. If you are skeptical, guess what people reviewing your application will think." His advice is far more insightful and relevant than mine, as I'm just a medical student. The whole point of what everyone is saying is that it's not necessarily impressive at all, that doing productive research is the only impressive thing that would come out of this and doing that research doesn't necessarily have to include getting a PhD. The respect a PhD garners is directly proportional to the work that goes into getting it (how productive you were, the implications of your research, the prestige of the school, and being of a standardized quality--e.g. not taking just one year to get). Definitely do some more research, and talk to some doctors in the specialty you're trying to match to about whether a PhD would be valuable. Hope you match to your preferred specialty, and best of luck with everything!

Right haha sorry I was being sarcastic. I agree completely, 5-year PhD =/= PhD.

Thank you again emergencycat, and best of luck to you too!

 

[emergencycat]

Right haha sorry I was being sarcastic. I agree completely, 5-year PhD =/= PhD.

Thank you again emergencycat, and best of luck to you too!

Ha, apologies! Hard to see sarcasm over the internet sometimes. Best of luck with everything!