sepsis

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Interns, did you get paid for orientation?
 

chicamedica

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whoa u guys are lucky!! my program didn't pay for the week of orientation. I am in a little bit better position cause i didn't have to move, but I dont know what those interns who had to move long distance to get here are expected to live on for this month!
 

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no pay for 5-day orientation.
btw: this isn't an uncommon practice in many different fields.
 
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sepsis

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DrMom said:
no pay for 5-day orientation.
btw: this isn't an uncommon practice in many different fields.
I'd love to know which. I have worked in many different areas from corporate america to academic research and I was paid my full salary during orientation for each.

For those of you who did NOT get paid, did your program inform you of this either in interview materials or at the actual interview or in your contract after the match?
 

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chicamedica said:
I dont know what those interns who had to move long distance to get here are expected to live on for this month!
Didn't everyone just spend the last four years living with no income? What's another week or so? ;)
 

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I so got paid for my orientation. Just got the check. :cool: :love:
 

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Back in the day, we did not get paid and it was spread out over two weeks. Thankfully I had taken out a loan to cover moving expenses, so I could afford to get by. Some people couldn't and had to live in seedy motels for awhile. Others let their car payments and bills slide.
 

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sepsis said:
I'd love to know which. I have worked in many different areas from corporate america to academic research and I was paid my full salary during orientation for each.

For those of you who did NOT get paid, did your program inform you of this either in interview materials or at the actual interview or in your contract after the match?
I wasn't paid for orientation for any of my teaching jobs or summer temping jobs when I was a teacher (medical clerical work) and my husband ran into the same thing in the business world.


I was notified in advance by my residency program after the match, although I'd already learned this info from other residents.
 

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KentW said:
Didn't everyone just spend the last four years living with no income? What's another week or so? ;)
Oh come on Kent.... come of us are starving here... especially after the move from one state to another.

I maxed on on all loans.
 

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Nope. AND we didn't get our first paychecks until the end of the first month! They warned us about that part beforehand, though.
 

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It is all a gimmick. Some programs give moving expenses, some book money, some orientation, some food card, decrease salary give perks, increase salary no perks, conference money.... At least we get some type of check and yeah don't expect first check till end of July or August.
 
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sepsis

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happydoc said:
...At least we get some type of check...
I really dislike this beaten down attitude that so many interns, med studs, residents develop. Where are the standards? Stick up for yourselves! Why do we have to accept what's handed to us simply because that's what's been done before?

80/30 hours would never have materialized with such sheepish behaviour.
 

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Nope, and we had to arrive/start 11 days before the official 1st day of work, although we probably weren't working 3-4 days of that, and a few of those days were half days.
 
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sepsis

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KentW said:
Usually, you sign a contract. ;)


Contracts don't define what's right or best though, only what is... not what could or should be.
 

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sepsis said:
Contracts don't define what's right or best though, only what is... not what could or should be.
Then don't sign it.

Seriously, some of you just need to chill. Enjoy orientation, paid or not. I guarantee you that you will have bigger things to worry about very shortly. :rolleyes:
 

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Some states require employers to pay employees for required orientation at their normal, customary agreed upon wage. If you weren't paid, check with your state Department of Labor and see if your employer was required to pay you. However, I have a feeling your employer already knows whether they are required to pay or not.

I was paid for my orientation period. (I live in Connecticut.)
 

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KentW said:
Then don't sign it.

Seriously, some of you just need to chill. Enjoy orientation, paid or not. I guarantee you that you will have bigger things to worry about very shortly. :rolleyes:
Come on Kent, you know very well that the residency training programs have us by the short hairs when it comes to pay. Every program pays approximately the same.

My new program paid us for the orientation days we spent before July 1st. Cheap-ass Duke did not.
 

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I was lucky enough to get paid for orientation. Also lucky enough to get 300 bucks for books and train in a state without income tax or sales tax. They get money out of you in other ways but it makes me feel better to have a bit bigger pay check.
 

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KentW said:
Didn't everyone just spend the last four years living with no income? What's another week or so? ;)
Actually we have to make do with NOTHING for a whole month, not a mere week because we get paid at the end of the month. Mind you this is with a credit card debt of thousands of dollars still from interview season, PLUS for those residents who had to move long distance, I'm sure those peeps got totally cleaned out. These aren't things that have grace periods like student loans do. Meanwhile where are we gonna squeeze out money to pay for rent or groceries?? Med school was different because student loans were a source of "refund money" towards living expenses. Now to boot many graduates also have those to pay (if they lost their grace period doing consolidations). so yeah, not exactly the same situation as med school finances.
 

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Hova2005 said:
Nope. AND we didn't get our first paychecks until the end of the first month! They warned us about that part beforehand, though.
Same here!
 

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No pay for our 2 week orientation. All we got was some crappy ham sandwiches. They didn't specifically mention it, but the contract clearly said that salary begins july 1.
 

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We were told we're getting paid for half of orientation (3 days out of 5) but come time for our first pay checks, we didn't get those 3 days of pay. Go figure.
 

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I was told that I wouldn't be paid for orientation and that I wouldn't get a paycheck until mid-July. They didn't tell me though that my first paycheck would only be for 1 week of work. :mad: Good think I wasn't relying on an entire half-month's pay to get by until the next paycheck or I'd be screwed.
 

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Getting paid for one week of work when your first paycheck is in mid-July is STANDARD. Most companies, hospitals included, close the payperiod one week prior to the date your paycheck is issued. Therefore, for those paid on July 14, the pay period closed on July 7, or after 1 week of work.

Being paid for orientation is another matter. I was not paid for the 1 week of orientation as an intern (which included ATLS, ACLS, etc.) but was paid (or will be supposedly) for my fellowship orientation. Unfortunate, because it was a repeat of everything I had been through in residency (HIPPA Complicance stuff, HIV precautions etc.), and was not helpful AT ALL...I would have just as soon skipped it (and the money) and requested a REAL orientation - where is my information on how the pager system works, which parking lot are we to use, what are the hours of the cafeteria, how do I get scrubs, an OR locker, etc. Pretty dismal here on that front.
 

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DrMom said:
I wasn't paid for orientation for any of my teaching jobs or summer temping jobs when I was a teacher (medical clerical work) and my husband ran into the same thing in the business world.


I was notified in advance by my residency program after the match, although I'd already learned this info from other residents.
Was an exec before...new hires had a week of orientation, required by regulatory agencies and paid for out of the personnel department budget which then billed my profit center for "recruiting costs" with a mark up.

Couldn't not pay 'em since the law says if you required it you better pay the wages promised. I can't imagine any industry hiring BS/BA or MS prepared people or even Burger King for that matter not paying for your time. Sounds like a labor board issue. Wonder how they got away with it?

Was paid for orientation.
 

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spalatin said:
Was an exec before...new hires had a week of orientation, required by regulatory agencies and paid for out of the personnel department budget which then billed my profit center for "recruiting costs" with a mark up.

Couldn't not pay 'em since the law says if you required it you better pay the wages promised. I can't imagine any industry hiring BS/BA or MS prepared people or even Burger King for that matter not paying for your time. Sounds like a labor board issue. Wonder how they got away with it?

Was paid for orientation.
I was thinking that , too. Hell, Chili's and my [email protected] telemarketing company paid me for orientation way back when. It's a shame that a residency program wouldn't do the same.
 

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We were not paid for starting early, but we were given an extra 10 days of vacation at the end of the year. Finished my first year....got the 10 days and did not start till July 4th (an extra 4 days) because I already did all the orientation at the same hospital before staring PGY2.
 

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spalatin said:
Was an exec before...new hires had a week of orientation, required by regulatory agencies and paid for out of the personnel department budget which then billed my profit center for "recruiting costs" with a mark up.

Couldn't not pay 'em since the law says if you required it you better pay the wages promised. I can't imagine any industry hiring BS/BA or MS prepared people or even Burger King for that matter not paying for your time. Sounds like a labor board issue. Wonder how they got away with it?

Was paid for orientation.
They "get away" with it, and many other things, by classifying residents as students, not real employees. This is the reason we can't strike, can't form unions to raise our salary or decrease our work hours, etc. Our salary is not salary but a "stipend".
 
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sepsis

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KentW said:
Then don't sign it.
Seriously, some of you just need to chill. Enjoy orientation, paid or not. I guarantee you that you will have bigger things to worry about very shortly. :rolleyes:
You may think we are a bunch of sniveling whiners, but your remedy is ridicules.
Don't sign it? How about informed consent? Sure I have the choice, but I WAS NOT told that we were NOT getting paid for orientation. It was NEVER mentioned - NOT on the website, NOT in the interview packet, NOT at interview, and very specifically NOT IN THE CONTRACT.

None of us found out until orientation - and don't you think it's a little bit TOO LATE then, after we've signed?

Maybe some people who have a family in the medical field know about this mandatory volunteer orientation business... but I have worked for multi-national corporations to NHI funded labs and they all paid. Now since practically ALL hospitals are now corporations and they pay for all the other employees orientation WHY on earth would I even begin to think that we would not get paid??? :rolleyes:
 

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I was paid for orientation albeit my orientation was only 4 days.
During those 4 days the residents had to do all the intern work.
 

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Kimberli Cox said:
They "get away" with it, and many other things, by classifying residents as students, not real employees. This is the reason we can't strike, can't form unions to raise our salary or decrease our work hours, etc. Our salary is not salary but a "stipend".
In that case, the "stipend" should not be taxed like a salary. ;)
 

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chicamedica said:
In that case, the "stipend" should not be taxed like a salary. ;)
You put a smilie in there, so I know you're joking...but, seriously, income is income. If you don't like paying taxes, take a job with the Federal government. Hellooooooooo V.A.! ;)

On a related note, I see a lot of people toss the word "salary" around on SDN as if all physicians are paid a guaranteed fixed wage (I'm talking about after residency). In reality, most of us work under some sort of production scheme. The more we work/bill/collect, the more money we make. Salaries are for wimps. ;)
 

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Kimberli Cox said:
They "get away" with it, and many other things, by classifying residents as students, not real employees. This is the reason we can't strike, can't form unions to raise our salary or decrease our work hours, etc. Our salary is not salary but a "stipend".
You can form a union - there is a HO union at UMich. http://www.med.umich.edu/medschool/hoa/

We get better benefits than most comparable institutions - they have even threatened a walkout during contract negotiations in the past.
 

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I thought New Jersey had a resident union.
 
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cook county has a union - all the residents get paid exactly the same and get the same increases every year :)
 
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sepsis

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link from kentw:


"...the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) ruled that residents are employees, not students."

***Kent you ROCK!!!***
 

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sepsis said:
link from kentw:


"...the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) ruled that residents are employees, not students."

***Kent you ROCK!!!***
Thanks for the clarification.

While residents may have unions these are not comparable to unions with any sort of power - if they were the salaries would be higher, the time off would be better, we'd be paid overtime, etc.

My benefits have always been good, only complaint being that my last day of coverage for residency was June 30 and my first day of fellowship coverage is September 1. I am expected to pay the COBRA fees of $340/month for coverage.

Hopefully I don't get sick in the next few weeks.. :scared:
 

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Kimberli Cox said:
Thanks for the clarification.

While residents may have unions these are not comparable to unions with any sort of power - if they were the salaries would be higher, the time off would be better, we'd be paid overtime, etc.

My benefits have always been good, only complaint being that my last day of coverage for residency was June 30 and my first day of fellowship coverage is September 1. I am expected to pay the COBRA fees of $340/month for coverage.

Hopefully I don't get sick in the next few weeks.. :scared:
The cool thing about Cobra is that you have 60 days to sign up, and you get retroactive coverage back to the first day after your employment ended provided that you pay full premiums. So, if you get sick on August 1, sign up for coverage on August 2 and pay premiums going back to July 1, you're covered. :) We're uninsured and riding the Cobra thing until school starts. The only hitch is if you wind up in a coma or something, and your representative doesn't know about signing up. :eek:
 

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exlawgrrl said:
The cool thing about Cobra is that you have 60 days to sign up, and you get retroactive coverage back to the first day after your employment ended provided that you pay full premiums. So, if you get sick on August 1, sign up for coverage on August 2 and pay premiums going back to July 1, you're covered. :) We're uninsured and riding the Cobra thing until school starts. The only hitch is if you wind up in a coma or something, and your representative doesn't know about signing up. :eek:
Sure...but it isn't cool that its so expensive I can't afford the monthly premium!
 

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KentW said:
You put a smilie in there, so I know you're joking...but, seriously, income is income. If you don't like paying taxes, take a job with the Federal government. Hellooooooooo V.A.! ;)

On a related note, I see a lot of people toss the word "salary" around on SDN as if all physicians are paid a guaranteed fixed wage (I'm talking about after residency). In reality, most of us work under some sort of production scheme. The more we work/bill/collect, the more money we make. Salaries are for wimps. ;)
I know. . .I know. . .i was indeed being facetious. I DO in fact like paying taxes, actually. The amount withheld from my 1 week of pay just makes me wince a bit when there is zilch in the bank and a credit card debt from interview season to pay off (not to mention bills!). :eek: Maybe the funds the end of this month will bring will make me a more relieved taxpayer. . . :D