Internship always needed before residency>

[vetter45]

Random question..From what I understand, an internship isn't technically required to apply for residency, but an applicant wouldn't be considered a strong candidate without one. Is this true? Do graduates ever go straight into a residency or is this unheard of/not wise?

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[nyanko]

Depends on the residency, but for the majority of the small animal clinical ones (aside from lab animal!) you won't even be considered for residencies without a small animal rotating internship. The VIRMP descriptions for them will explicitly state such. In a few specialties it's not uncommon for a resident to have done both a rotating and a specialty internship even prior to matching.

 

[SocialStigma]

The only residency programs (that I know of) that accept applicants straight out of vet school are pathology and lab animal. All of the other clinical specialties (neuro, IM, surgery, cardio, etc) require at least a SA rotating internship.

 

[deleted387118]

For Therio: I know two theriogenologists that skipped the internship - but they were at the right place at the right time and hand selected. Most programs require internship or clinical experience equivalent to an internship prior to the residency.

 

[Jamr0ckin]

I know for derm you can do 2-2-3 years of clinical practice, but they prefer internship

 

[deleted498041]

I know for derm you can do 2-2-3 years of clinical practice, but they prefer internship

Same with sports medicine rehab. You have to do 5 years of clinical practice, but there are some other requirements attached to that.

 

[jmo1012]

Same with sports medicine rehab. You have to do 5 years of clinical practice, but there are some other requirements attached to that.

are you thinking of practice equivalency prior to sitting for boards? or years of practice equal to an internship prior to applying for a residency? 5 years is a ton prior to a residency, sheesh

 

[deleted498041]

are you thinking of practice equivalency prior to sitting for boards? or years of practice equal to an internship prior to applying for a residency? 5 years is a ton prior to a residency, sheesh

It's 5 years clinical practice instead of a residency. Sorry, probably should have specified that.

 

[jmo1012]

It's 5 years clinical practice instead of a residency. Sorry, probably should have specified that.

thats what i figured, i think there are a few specialties that are that way (particularly the ABVP stuff).

for those who are thinking about clinical practice prior to a residency instead of an internship, i will warn you that it is extremely hard to get a residency spot without an internship before hand, even in private practice residencies (i know a criticalist who just finished her residency that had been in ER for 6+ years and could not get a residency spot without doing a specialty internship first - she did not initially do a rotating. if you do a rotating then practice, you will still be looked at more favorably than lots of practice and no internship)

 

[Kpowell14]

thats what i figured, i think there are a few specialties that are that way (particularly the ABVP stuff).

for those who are thinking about clinical practice prior to a residency instead of an internship, i will warn you that it is extremely hard to get a residency spot without an internship before hand, even in private practice residencies (i know a criticalist who just finished her residency that had been in ER for 6+ years and could not get a residency spot without doing a specialty internship first - she did not initially do a rotating. if you do a rotating then practice, you will still be looked at more favorably than lots of practice and no internship)

Good to know... 🤔

 

[dyachei]

I haven't decided yet, but I've gotten some encouragement from former professors to go out and try for ABVP.

 

[Kpowell14]

I haven't decided yet, but I've gotten some encouragement from former professors to go out and try for ABVP.

You should DO IT!

 

[dyachei]

You should DO IT!

it's a lot of work. And I'd need to start getting cases together for the case studies now. Which means owners going through work ups completely

 

[deleted498041]

it's a lot of work. And I'd need to start getting cases together for the case studies now. Which means owners going through work ups completely

Do it! We've got a couple ABVP here at school. I like their scholarship... mainly because I got some money from it my first year 😀

 

[Doktor Timo]

The ACVIM specialties all say you need a yearlong internship or "appropriate broad-based clinical experience," but they don't specify what they mean by the latter. I asked an internist that I know what they mean and he said his guess was at least a few years of in-depth clinical experience, and that's just to get you qualified to apply for a residency.

 

[shortnsweet]

The ACVIM specialties all say you need a yearlong internship or "appropriate broad-based clinical experience," but they don't specify what they mean by the latter. I asked an internist that I know what they mean and he said his guess was at least a few years of in-depth clinical experience, and that's just to get you qualified to apply for a residency.

The internship route is easier.

And honestly, I don't know why you would go into a residency without having done an internship first. They really are the ultimate prep. You know exactly what you are getting yourself into. I think it would also be really hard to go from an associate in a practice to low man on the totem pole in a residency, but, to each their own.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

The internship route is easier.

And honestly, I don't know why you would go into a residency without having done an internship first. They really are the ultimate prep. You know exactly what you are getting yourself into. I think it would also be really hard to go from an associate in a practice to low man on the totem pole in a residency, but, to each their own.

For most clinical specialties, yes. For path and lab animal, the general medicine rotating internship environment really isn't that applicable to the focus of the residency, hence they are the two that most commonly do not require it. In place of that,though, they often require extensive exposure in the form of externships and such for applicants to be considered competitive.

I agree though, for most specialties I would pick an internship over clinical practice any day. The rigor is what sets you up for success.

 

[shortnsweet]

For most clinical specialties, yes. For path and lab animal, the general medicine rotating internship environment really isn't that applicable to the focus of the residency, hence they are the two that most commonly do not require it. In place of that,though, they often require extensive exposure in the form of externships and such for applicants to be considered competitive.

I agree though, for most specialties I would pick an internship over clinical practice any day. The rigor is what sets you up for success.

Right...I knew those two you could straight out of vet school. Though, what is your opinion on being able to apply a clinical setting that you would get in an internship etc into a pathology residency? I know it's not the norm, but was just curious on the being able to relate what you are seeing to what they are seeing. I know I appreciated working in a private practice setting before a referral center simply to see what the front lines were seeing.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Right...I knew those two you could straight out of vet school. Though, what is your opinion on being able to apply a clinical setting that you would get in an internship etc into a pathology residency? I know it's not the norm, but was just curious on the being able to relate what you are seeing to what they are seeing. I know I appreciated working in a private practice setting before a referral center simply to see what the front lines were seeing.

Eh, it certainly wouldn't count against an applicant. But I don't think it would give someone a great advantage either. Pathology is a very different discipline than most of the other clinical ones because we, frankly, don't really do anything "clinical" in the classical sense. Most of the stuff you focus on in an internship - things like surgery, treatment, management, etc - we don't do any of that. Most of the stuff you would learn and perfect in a internship you would never do again if you went into pathology, so I don't really see the point. Of course they both have diagnostic components, but there are even differences there.... diagnostics in practice are much more simplified in both scope and species (i.e. usually small vs large); you don't need to know much about the cellular pathogenesis of the disease in ALL species; that's what we do. You guys see the live animal; we see the organs and the cells. And I don't mean "simplified" that in any sort of holier-than-thou way - I have immense respect for clinical vets. I mean that you guys don't have to know all the details about it to treat the disease; for what we're here for. We can't do all the fancy surgery and stuff; that's what you're there for.

 

[shortnsweet]

Eh, it certainly wouldn't count against an applicant. But I don't think it would give someone a great advantage either. Pathology is a very different discipline than most of the other clinical ones because we, frankly, don't really do anything "clinical" in the classical sense. Most of the stuff you focus on in an internship - things like surgery, treatment, management, etc - we don't do any of that. Most of the stuff you would learn and perfect in a internship you would never do again if you went into pathology, so I don't really see the point. Of course they both have diagnostic components, but there are even differences there.... diagnostics in practice are much more simplified in both scope and species (i.e. usually small vs large); you don't need to know much about the cellular pathogenesis of the disease in ALL species; that's what we do. You guys see the live animal; we see the organs and the cells. And I don't mean "simplified" that in any sort of holier-than-thou way - I have immense respect for clinical vets. I mean that you guys don't have to know all the details about it to treat the disease; for what we're here for. We can't do all the fancy surgery and stuff; that's what you're there for.

Fair points. I was just curious. Speaking of, i've gotta line up my pathology rotations....wanna have a medicine resident shadow? 😉

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Fair points. I was just curious. Speaking of, i've gotta line up my pathology rotations....wanna have a medicine resident shadow? 😉

Totally! I might even know a few places you could stay; our place is only a 1 bdrm but our chief path resident has an extra room I think. Lemme know!

 

[futurovet]

Very difficult to get into a residency without a rotating internship. You need a lot of experience in that area to even be considered. the thing about a rotating internship is that you can talk to the doctors and try to add more hours in the specialty that you want to prepare for to do your residency, so that is why a rotating internship is required because you can tailor it to your needs.

 

[Adrcy]

Hello there, I have a few questions too.

When VIRMP mentioned that we have to have some sort of "rotating internship or equivalent", does the clinical experience obtained when working as a vet count? I am a non-US graduating from a foreign vet school (not accredited) in 2013 and now I am working in the teaching hospital (>2years now). I was in a rotating duty IM-Surgery-critical care-clinic (clinic means being in the front line to accept walk-in/referral cases). Second year of my career I rotated in IM-clinics-critical care when I focused on my master degree.

Do all those above qualify me to try applying for a residency or i may better off just try internship? I did email a coordinator from NCSU and she was quite direct to hint "don't bother ranking us" 🙁 Another professor from Georgia however did welcome my application. So I'm getting confused here, do I stand a chance??

Also I'm quite curious about the VIRMP match stats for non-US citizens. I'm just guessing that most unmatched candidates are from the non-US pool? I know this is out of the topic but that would be helpful to people far far away like us.

Thanks for helping!

 

[rdc]

Hello there, I have a few questions too.

When VIRMP mentioned that we have to have some sort of "rotating internship or equivalent", does the clinical experience obtained when working as a vet count? I am a non-US graduating from a foreign vet school (not accredited) in 2013 and now I am working in the teaching hospital (>2years now). I was in a rotating duty IM-Surgery-critical care-clinic (clinic means being in the front line to accept walk-in/referral cases). Second year of my career I rotated in IM-clinics-critical care when I focused on my master degree.

Do all those above qualify me to try applying for a residency or i may better off just try internship? I did email a coordinator from NCSU and she was quite direct to hint "don't bother ranking us" 🙁 Another professor from Georgia however did welcome my application. So I'm getting confused here, do I stand a chance??

Also I'm quite curious about the VIRMP match stats for non-US citizens. I'm just guessing that most unmatched candidates are from the non-US pool? I know this is out of the topic but that would be helpful to people far far away like us.

Thanks for helping!

I think rotating internships are becoming the norm for most residencies, especially as more and more candidates have done a rotating, and even a speciality internship in their given field. Although its not 'required', its difficult to remain competitive when your peers have done all this additional formalized training, thereby making their applications that much stronger.

This will be somewhat speciality dependent however (for example, many radiology programs like their candidates to have an internship, and practice experience whereas if you want to do SA surgery, going into practice can very detrimental to your application).

 

[Adrcy]

Thanks! I guess the formalized training is somewhat better than just experience alone. Will try for both internship and residency but it is not easy coming from a non-AVMA accredited school and that I have no ECFVG yet. Very limited choices.

This will be somewhat speciality dependent however (for example, many radiology programs like their candidates to have an internship, and practice experience whereas if you want to do SA surgery, going into practice can very detrimental to your application).

Just curious with your statement over here, you mean SA Surgery would prefer a blank fresh graduates with no practicing experience to begin with? That makes sense...

 

[rdc]

Thanks! I guess the formalized training is somewhat better than just experience alone. Will try for both internship and residency but it is not easy coming from a non-AVMA accredited school and that I have no ECFVG yet. Very limited choices.


Just curious with your statement over here, you mean SA Surgery would prefer a blank fresh graduates with no practicing experience to begin with? That makes sense...

It means that faculty surgeons do not want to 'un-train' all the bad habits you may pick up in private practice; so in a sense, yes they want a blank canvass. What they do want, however, is someone who knows how to look after a postoperative patient; those are the skills you should have picked up in your internship, surgical internship etc.