Internship cover letter length?

[iheartbacon]

Do any guidelines exist for length of cover letters for APPIC applications? One site specifically said approximately 750 words but otherwise have not seen any guidelines.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Big5Club]

Do any guidelines exist for length of cover letters for APPIC applications? One site specifically said approximately 750 words but otherwise have not seen any guidelines.

Typically 1.5-2 pages if not specified. Don’t go beyond 2. But first and foremost, follow the guidelines for each site. They’re paying attention to whether you can follow instructions.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Typically 1.5-2 pages if not specified. Don’t go beyond 2. But first and foremost, follow the guidelines for each site. They’re paying attention to whether you can follow instructions.

This.

Use the cover letter as a way to (1) cover things you couldn't say in the essays that are important to demonstrate fit (2) communicate clear and explicit reasons for their site matching to your interests (i.e., see Mitch Prinstein's statements on Twitter as examples)

 

[cotn_psych]

Be kind to the people reading your application and keep it short. Your CV and LOR are probably more important. FWIW, my cover letters were one page in length and I got 15/17 interviews I applied for.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I would agree--1 page if you can swing it, otherwise 1.5 to 2 (including your signature block) is plenty. You can definitely highlight your past training and accomplishments, especially things you're particularly proud of that might not be as apparent on your CV, but don't feel the need to re-state everything in said CV. It's been a while, but I think my format was something like--brief introductory paragraph, paragraph about my past experiences, paragraph about why I'm a good fit for their program, and brief final paragraph.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Be kind to the people reading your application and keep it short. Your CV and LOR are probably more important. FWIW, my cover letters were one page in length and I got 15/17 interviews I applied for.

LOR are considerably less important than cover letter. LOR are also declining in importance over the last twenty years relative to the other materials

In order, internship directors care about:

1. "Fit" - which can be demonstrated in the cover letter.
2 and 3. Completed Comptency Exam and Coursework
4. Cover Letter
...
10. Letters of reference

This perceived importance does not vary by site type (although order may as a function of other things which vary)

Error - Cookies Turned Off

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

 

[cotn_psych]

LOR are considerably less important than cover letter. LOR are also declining in importance over the last twenty years relative to the other materials

In order, internship directors care about:

1. "Fit" - which can be demonstrated in the cover letter.
2 and 3. Completed Comptency Exam and Coursework
4. Cover Letter
...
10. Letters of reference

This perceived importance does not vary by site type (although order may as a function of other things which vary)

Error - Cookies Turned Off

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

I'd disagree on 2 and 3. Competency exam and coursework never came up on interviews and seemed to be useful only in setting a minimum bar of expectations. Research productivity, externship/practicum experience, and hours of F2F with clinical population of interest to illustrate fit (detailed in the cover letter and CV of course) seemed to matter much more.

 

[Justanothergrad]

I'd disagree on 2 and 3. Competency exam and coursework never came up on interviews and seemed to be useful only in setting a minimum bar of expectations. Research productivity, externship/practicum experience, and hours of F2F with clinical population of interest to illustrate fit (detailed in the cover letter and CV of course) seemed to matter much more.

I'm telling you this based on what 1/3rd of training directors said but feel free to disagree. Research (pubs/presentations/essays) are amongst the least important things (this will obviously vary if you are shooting for research heavy sites like Yale.. but that is the minority of sites)

 

[cotn_psych]

I'm telling you this based on what 1/3rd of training directors said but feel free to disagree. Research (pubs/presentations/essays) are amongst the least important things (this will obviously vary if you are shooting for research heavy sites like Yale.. but that is the minority of sites)

OK fair enough... My experience was based on applying to research heavy sites like Yale, Pitt, McLean, MGH etc. OP take my advice with a grain of salt if you are applying to more counseling centers or such.

 

[Justanothergrad]

OK fair enough... My experience was based on applying to research heavy sites like Yale, Pitt, McLean, MGH etc. OP take my advice with a grain of salt if you are applying to more counseling centers or such.

Or just non research sites. Its not just about Counseling v other (although that is a huge distinction). Pitt/Yale/etc are as different on one end as counseling centers are on the others. Even then then, the points (2&3) don't really vary - they're important.. which is why everyone has them done. It's also why APPIC shifted to requiring dissertation proposals finished before application.

 

[WisNeuro]

I'm telling you this based on what 1/3rd of training directors said but feel free to disagree. Research (pubs/presentations/essays) are amongst the least important things (this will obviously vary if you are shooting for research heavy sites like Yale.. but that is the minority of sites)

Having served on committees for both general sites and neuro specific internship and postdoc committees, research is definitely more important for neuro, even at clinical sites. And, I've never seen the cover letter factor in at all besides someone making a big mistake in the document. Also, another possible specialist difference between general and neuro, as we are a relatively smaller niche, cover letters are more important, especially if we know the writer. Though, that can be either a positive or negative for the applicant...

 

[Justanothergrad]

Having served on committees for both general sites and neuro specific internship and postdoc committees, research is definitely more important for neuro, even at clinical sites. And, I've never seen the cover letter factor in at all besides someone making a big mistake in the document. Also, another possible specialist difference between general and neuro, as we are a relatively smaller niche, cover letters are more important, especially if we know the writer. Though, that can be either a positive or negative for the applicant...

I was surprised to, honestly, but thats what TDs said were valued and in what order 🤷‍♂️

 

[WisNeuro]

I was surprised to, honestly, but thats what TDs said were valued and in what order 🤷‍♂️

Well the "fit" piece still jives as most importance from my experience. But some of the others were largely checkboxes or irrelevant. For exam, the competency exam and dissertation proposal completed, simply checkboxes. I've never seen coursework play a role unless someone had failed multiple classes, or had like all Bs. As for Letters of rec, they do decline in importance if we don't know who the person is, though sometimes they play a big role when it's easy to read between the lines that the applicant is something of a trainwreck. I still remember someone saying something to the effect of "applicant is within the top 75% of students I have supervised."

 

[Justanothergrad]

Well the "fit" piece still jives as most importance from my experience. But some of the others were largely checkboxes or irrelevant. For exam, the competency exam and dissertation proposal completed, simply checkboxes. I've never seen coursework play a role unless someone had failed multiple classes, or had like all Bs. As for Letters of rec, they do decline in importance if we don't know who the person is, though sometimes they play a big role when it's easy to read between the lines that the applicant is something of a trainwreck. I still remember someone saying something to the effect of "applicant is within the top 75% of students I have supervised."

yeh, for sure with the checkbox items. thats sort of how I see them as well and part of why i grouped those above - they matter but they don't. i wouldn't expect them to come up on interviews since those with issues would get weeded out before. that doesn't mean they don't matter, only that when they matter is earlier in the consideration process. letters can sink someone but i see minimal value in them to pull them up in most realistic cases (sure, if Beck wrote a letter saying that so-and-so student revolutionized how he thought about cognitive therapy that would probably carry considerable weight.. butttttt). Given the poor utility of clinical interview and clinical decision making, i'm not sure letters should have a ton of weight either honestly. Fit is just a summative way to say something important about the site and the person, which can be used in a cover letter.

 

[WisNeuro]

yeh, for sure with the checkbox items. thats sort of how I see them as well and part of why i grouped those above - they matter but they don't. i wouldn't expect them to come up on interviews since those with issues would get weeded out before. that doesn't mean they don't matter, only that when they matter is earlier in the consideration process. letters can sink someone but i see minimal value in them to pull them up in most realistic cases (sure, if Beck wrote a letter saying that so-and-so student revolutionized how he thought about cognitive therapy that would probably carry considerable weight.. butttttt). Given the poor utility of clinical interview and clinical decision making, i'm not sure letters should have a ton of weight either honestly. Fit is just a summative way to say something important about the site and the person, which can be used in a cover letter.

I still haven't seen committees really get fit from the cover letter though. I've seen plenty of cover letters talk about the fit of certain rotations to their interests, but then their CV shows almost all peds experiences (I've always been at adult-only sites, VAs). The CV is where we got most of our "fit" feelings from. The cover letters were up there with the essays, generally useless, but we just looked them over for red flags.

 

[cotn_psych]

Regardless of the relative importance of the cover letter to the application, if you’ve got 500 or 750 words you want to make it concise as possible to clearly indicate your fit and experience. For a lot of that space it should mainly focus on the things that set you apart from others like research experience, specific training you have and hope to gain, and why you are excited to be at that internship. It doesn’t do anyone any good to list out the coursework or other minimum expectations that are usually filtered out during the initial application review.

 

[Justanothergrad]

I still haven't seen committees really get fit from the cover letter though. I've seen plenty of cover letters talk about the fit of certain rotations to their interests, but then their CV shows almost all peds experiences (I've always been at adult-only sites, VAs). The CV is where we got most of our "fit" feelings from. The cover letters were up there with the essays, generally useless, but we just looked them over for red flags.

That presumes past experience has allowed for all the opportunities related to interest, which isn't always the case or isn't always clear from a C.V. That doesn't preclude fit of interest or allow for specificity. I have no doubt that the people you would get are good but that doesn't mean those are exhaustively the best fitted. What your saying is consistent with the greater focus placed on prior experience.

 

[WisNeuro]

That presumes past experience has allowed for all the opportunities related to interest, which isn't always the case or isn't always clear from a C.V. That doesn't preclude fit of interest or allow for specificity. I have no doubt that the people you would get are good but that doesn't mean those are exhaustively the best fitted. What your saying is consistent with the greater focus placed on prior experience.

At least to us, it was more of an issue that if you had no adult experience, we didn't want to be the ones that got you that foundational knowledge. You may have the interest, but we felt that was beyond our jobs at that particular level.

 

[Justanothergrad]

At least to us, it was more of an issue that if you had no adult experience, we didn't want to be the ones that got you that foundational knowledge. You may have the interest, but we felt that was beyond our jobs at that particular level.

Yeh, that makes sense but is a fairly low bar for what the CV offers (not even uniquely really)

 

[WisNeuro]

Yeh, that makes sense but is a fairly low bar for what the CV offers (not even uniquely really)

I'd disagree somewhat. I think a lot can be gleaned from the course of clinical work that one completes in grad school, in addition to the progression of research interests as seen by posters, pubs and conferences.

 

[Justanothergrad]

I'd disagree somewhat. I think a lot can be gleaned from the course of clinical work that one completes in grad school, in addition to the progression of research interests as seen by posters, pubs and conferences.

I'm not sure the evidence supports that greater research involvement makes a better clinician. I'm open to changing my mind, but I haven't seen that data.

 

[WisNeuro]

I'm not sure the evidence supports that greater research involvement makes a better clinician. I'm open to changing my mind, but I haven't seen that data.

Well, we don't have data that more hours, good cover letters, or good essays make better clinicians either, so we go with what we know in the application. And, at least anecdotally, those more involved in research have been far better trainees than those with minimal experience in my neuro rotations. Less likely to rely on outdated "clinical lore."

 

[iheartbacon]

Thank you all for your input! I am enjoying all of these comments - thank you for sharing your perspectives and experiences!

 

[iheartbacon]

I'd disagree somewhat. I think a lot can be gleaned from the course of clinical work that one completes in grad school, in addition to the progression of research interests as seen by posters, pubs and conferences.

Are you a supervisor at an internship training site? If so, would you consider a potential intern for a neuro track if he/she came from a PsyD program and did not have any neuropsych training or much research involvement, but was overall skilled in assessment and motivated to learn?

 

[WisNeuro]

Are you a supervisor at an internship training site? If so, would you consider a potential intern for a neuro track if he/she came from a PsyD program and did not have any neuropsych training or much research involvement, but was overall skilled in assessment and motivated to learn?

This is the first year I am not training. Previously I spent the better part of a decade as a supervisor for neuropsych rotations/tracks for VA and hospital system programs. As to your question, generalist interns will do minor rotations with us to get a feel for neuropsych. However, if we're talking about a specific neuropsych track, wherein an intern/postdoc were applying to neuropsych heavy training, I would not consider applicants with little neuropsych work for those specific tracks. Additionally, minimal research training would have gotten applicants vetoed from the neuropsych specific tracks at my sites, though it was a different criteria for the generalist spots at some of the sites.

 

[beantownpsych]

LOR are considerably less important than cover letter. LOR are also declining in importance over the last twenty years relative to the other materials

In order, internship directors care about:

1. "Fit" - which can be demonstrated in the cover letter.
2 and 3. Completed Comptency Exam and Coursework
4. Cover Letter
...
10. Letters of reference

This perceived importance does not vary by site type (although order may as a function of other things which vary)

Error - Cookies Turned Off

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Internship TD here (AMC). We assume people have completed quals and their coursework but don't look at these more than to make sure they are marked as done. In my 10+ yrs of reviewing applications, I can't ever recall seeing an applicant who didn't have these complete.

1. meeting the bare minimum in terms of number of intervention/assessment hours (this is not a high bar)
2. cover letter documenting fit
3. clinical experience: diversity of placements, some experience with semi-structured assessment, not all hours in dept clinic. This is another measure of fit and we don't want to bring in anyone who may not have the training to succeed.
4. research: in order of weight, grants (NSF, NRSA) etc, FA pubs, other pubs, chapters. We don't care about presentations/posters.
5. stage of dissertation
6. LoR from someone we know/someone that carries weight
7. essays to rule out people who, ahem, say odd or uninformed things
8. other LoRs
9. DCT letter unless they trash the applicant in which case move this to #1 because we stop reading the application.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Well, we don't have data that more hours, good cover letters, or good essays make better clinicians either, so we go with what we know in the application. And, at least anecdotally, those more involved in research have been far better trainees than those with minimal experience in my neuro rotations. Less likely to rely on outdated "clinical lore."

fair. lol. doesn't paint a good picture for training

 

[WisNeuro]

fair. lol. doesn't paint a good picture for training

True, though getting this data would be quite an undertaking. Tracking somewhat subjective application variables, and then following that person through licensure and then doing meaningful outcome measures on their patients to judge clinical acumen? That's a lot of IRBs and consent forms to work through.

 

[Justanothergrad]

True, though getting this data would be quite an undertaking. Tracking somewhat subjective application variables, and then following that person through licensure and then doing meaningful outcome measures on their patients to judge clinical acumen? That's a lot of IRBs and consent forms to work through.

I mean, that's one way. there are others which are more feasible. part of the issue is training isn't emphasized by research institutions. this isn't harder than other things we study.

 

[jdawg2017]

A bit of an aside, but does anyone have tips at tailoring cover letters to sites at which you have already worked (e.g., as a practicum student, or applying to work with a faculty co-mentor on internship who you've only ever done research work with yet to date)?

I feel a bit lost because normally the networking component helps IRL (assuming you are hardworking and not totally bonkers/doing unethical things), but with internship as the process is double-blind to ranking I feel weird applying to sites I've already work at in the past. I know some people are against this and suggest you get a breadth of training, but in my two specific cases there are specific reasons I would like to return to a practicum site for internship or work with my other mentor clinically (vs. in research), as they would both round out aspects of my training that I have not had.

Any tips are appreciated for this type of cover letter! I am trying to be myself and as professional as I can, but it I find writing letters to people I do not know significantly easier.

 

[PsyDuck90]

A bit of an aside, but does anyone have tips at tailoring cover letters to sites at which you have already worked (e.g., as a practicum student, or applying to work with a faculty co-mentor on internship who you've only ever done research work with yet to date)?

I feel a bit lost because normally the networking component helps IRL (assuming you are hardworking and not totally bonkers/doing unethical things), but with internship as the process is double-blind to ranking I feel weird applying to sites I've already work at in the past. I know some people are against this and suggest you get a breadth of training, but in my two specific cases there are specific reasons I would like to return to a practicum site for internship or work with my other mentor clinically (vs. in research), as they would both round out aspects of my training that I have not had.

Any tips are appreciated for this type of cover letter! I am trying to be myself and as professional as I can, but it I find writing letters to people I do not know significantly easier.

I am in a similar position. I'm actually applying to an internship where I'm currently doing my practicum. I spoke with my supervisor (who is also the internship TD), and they said it is actually very common for past practicum students to apply for their internship. In my discussion with them, the biggest thing was explaining what I hope to gain as an intern that cannot be accomplished as a practicum student. They have a history of taking some prac students as interns, but not every one. I think the differentiation is whether they feel you have something to gain by training there again in that other capacity. My plan is to discuss the skills I have gained while there but also emphasizing what aspects of the internship specifically appeal to me and will be beneficial for my continued training and the pursuit of my short and long term goals.

I am very interested in hearing what all the established professionals on this board think as well!

 

[WisNeuro]

I mean, that's one way. there are others which are more feasible. part of the issue is training isn't emphasized by research institutions. this isn't harder than other things we study.

I think it's harder, but not to the extent that it''s not feasible.

 

[summerbabe]

there are specific reasons I would like to return to a practicum site for internship or work with my other mentor clinically (vs. in research), as they would both round out aspects of my training that I have not had.

Speak to those specifics to make the case for continued growth and fit with the site.

Even if you've trained there, people who you have not interacted with will likely be reviewing your application so it's best to presume that everybody is coming in with a blank slate.

Also, it's possible to give off the impression that you know everything about how training/healthcare happens at this site since you've been there, which can potentially read as off-putting. Perhaps having somebody else review this cover letter specifically would be helpful.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Speak to those specifics to make the case for continued growth and fit with the site.

Even if you've trained there, people who you have not interacted with will likely be reviewing your application so it's best to presume that everybody is coming in with a blank slate.

Also, it's possible to give off the impression that you know everything about how training/healthcare happens at this site since you've been there, which can potentially read as off-putting. Perhaps having somebody else review this cover letter specifically would be helpful.

Yup. Highlight what they offer that you haven't already had exposure to as part of your training + how your training prepares you to be well suited (this is the easier part generally given past experience)

 

[Noor0183]

Or just non research sites. Its not just about Counseling v other (although that is a huge distinction). Pitt/Yale/etc are as different on one end as counseling centers are on the others. Even then then, the points (2&3) don't really vary - they're important.. which is why everyone has them done. It's also why APPIC shifted to requiring dissertation proposals finished before application.

I know this is slightly veering from the thread topic, but I just noticed that you mentioned that APPIC has shifted to requiring dissertation proposals completed before application deadline. I have never received this news and I’m a bit worried as my expected proposal date is in November and I don’t know if that will have an impact on my applications. Also, I see some participating sites are not requiring a proposal by application deadline. Just wanted to make sure. If you can clarify, that would be great.

 

[PsychPhDone]

I am an N of 1, but last year I reviewed applications for my site and the vast majority of cover letters were between 1.25-1.5 pages long. Please be sure to be clear about your rotation interests so that we can set up interviews to match, if feasible. That's my big pet peeve - vague cover letters! I actually read it first to orient myself to the applicant and applicant package.

 

[Justanothergrad]

I know this is slightly veering from the thread topic, but I just noticed that you mentioned that APPIC has shifted to requiring dissertation proposals completed before application deadline. I have never received this news and I’m a bit worried as my expected proposal date is in November and I don’t know if that will have an impact on my applications. Also, I see some participating sites are not requiring a proposal by application deadline. Just wanted to make sure. If you can clarify, that would be great.

1. What are the pros and cons of requiring either the dissertation proposal, data collection, or defense prior to application for internship?
   For multiple reasons in addition to the match imbalance, students should be required to propose the dissertation prior to entering the Match. Some may see this as restrictive. However, the internship should be a year of immersion in clinical practice. Even if a student has academic aspirations, this year of training is critical to his or her development. If significant progress is not made on the dissertation prior to internship, that year of training will likely be less effective due to distractions related to dissertation activities. In addition, students who have not been able to demonstrate the skills etc. needed to propose prior to internship may struggle with the requirements of internship. Having proposed the dissertation could also serve as a gatekeeping criterion for internship.

News Article

Association of Psychology Postdoctoral and Internship Centers, Postdoc Interns, Psychology Internships, Psych Internship Matching - APPIC

www.appic.org

This is an APPIC recommendation and your dissertation status is (has always) been reported as part of the APPI. Lots of applications are due in late November / early December and so that leaves you plenty of time, but it certainly is becoming a disadvantage not to have proposed. I was trying to find the more specific guidance but struggled/didn't have time. I'll see what I can dig up for you.

 

[WisNeuro]

Never knew about any requirement by APPIC. Our program itself always required having your dissertation proposal accepted before the DCT would even sign off on your application, so wasn't even a question for us.

 

[jdawg2017]

1. What are the pros and cons of requiring either the dissertation proposal, data collection, or defense prior to application for internship?
   For multiple reasons in addition to the match imbalance, students should be required to propose the dissertation prior to entering the Match. Some may see this as restrictive. However, the internship should be a year of immersion in clinical practice. Even if a student has academic aspirations, this year of training is critical to his or her development. If significant progress is not made on the dissertation prior to internship, that year of training will likely be less effective due to distractions related to dissertation activities. In addition, students who have not been able to demonstrate the skills etc. needed to propose prior to internship may struggle with the requirements of internship. Having proposed the dissertation could also serve as a gatekeeping criterion for internship.

News Article

Association of Psychology Postdoctoral and Internship Centers, Postdoc Interns, Psychology Internships, Psych Internship Matching - APPIC

www.appic.org

This is an APPIC recommendation and your dissertation status is (has always) been reported as part of the APPI. Lots of applications are due in late November / early December and so that leaves you plenty of time, but it certainly is becoming a disadvantage not to have proposed. I was trying to find the more specific guidance but struggled/didn't have time. I'll see what I can dig up for you.

I have seen several sites that have stated that if the prospectus is not proposed by Nov. 1 then no later than ~Nov. 30 is fine. This may widely vary between sites and I have not been looking that closely because I am well along in my post-prospectus dissertation work so I have not personally been searching for this information that closely in brochures.

 

[thebalmofhurtminds]

Never knew about any requirement by APPIC. Our program itself always required having your dissertation proposal accepted before the DCT would even sign off on your application, so wasn't even a question for us.

That was our program requirement as well. I always figured it was required by most programs.

 

[PedsPhD23]

Also another question - I want to become a pediatric neuropsychologist and am applying to internships both with pediatric neuropsychology tracks + experiences. For the sites that provide major rotations with neuro as part of a larger hospital based site, can I say my long-term goals are board certification?? Places like Children's National or Dupont? I have supervisors that have truly opposing views... Leaning towards this is what I want bc I have the experience (1 rehab + 2 outpatient testing practicum) to back it up as my long term goal. Curious what you all think!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Figured this may be a good place to ask this question -- I am second guessing how I've tracked some of my hours. I worked on an inpatient rehab as a neuro experience. My direct patient care included intake assessments with brief cog measures (cognistat etc), some follow-up testing (BDAE, NAB, etc), and then also psych support. This included evaluating mood + helping support mood with coping strategies etc.

I have tracked the assessments between neuro / psychodiagnostic as appropriate but not sure where the ~1/3 of coping support should go. It feels like incorrect to put it in psychotherapy experience and I'm just not sure!!

Thanks so much for any help!!

I'm not sure what all the APPIC categories are at this point, but my knee-jerk response is that it sounds viable to count those hours as psychotherapy.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Also another question - I want to become a pediatric neuropsychologist and am applying to internships both with pediatric neuropsychology tracks + experiences. For the sites that provide major rotations with neuro as part of a larger hospital based site, can I say my long-term goals are board certification?? Places like Children's National or Dupont? I have supervisors that have truly opposing views... Leaning towards this is what I want bc I have the experience (1 rehab + 2 outpatient testing practicum) to back it up as my long term goal. Curious what you all think!

I can't speak to those specific sites, but at this point, I would say there are enough neuropsychologists who either support board certification or are indifferent enough for your mention of it to not negatively impact your application. Especially for hospital-based sites.