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I'm think the 10-14+ is what is going to get you a shot at a top research place. It is also QUALITY as much as QUANTITY...as well as being 1st author on a number of publications, since that is what is (probably) expected at top places.

It surprised me how many people had 0-1 for both of those. I am not a big researcher/presenter at all, and I still have more than average (as a PsyD). Of course, I'm stuck fighting for competitive placements that expect great everything so it definitely was a challenge.

<1 day until match day.....😱
 
Yeah, those numbers are always a great pick-me-up when I think about how competitive things can be in this field. The numbers just baffle me. I guess grad students can be just as lazy as undergrads...

How anyone can get a clinical degree and not publish at least once is beyond me. Even for a clinically-oriented person. I mean, I'm a research-oriented person and I view not publishing in the same way I'd view it if I only did asessments and initial sessions and never actually carried my clinical work all the way through and completed therapy! This is grad school...finish what you start.

Does anyone know if those numbers are just in print articles, or are in-press and under-review included as well?

If its in print...I can come a little closer to understanding since the review process is so heinously long for alot of journals that I have no idea how many publications I'll actually have at graduation. If in press and under review stuff will count though, then there's no excuse...

Here's hoping for breaking into the double digits as a grad student🙂
 
Ollie123 said:
Yeah, those numbers are always a great pick-me-up when I think about how competitive things can be in this field. The numbers just baffle me. I guess grad students can be just as lazy as undergrads...

How anyone can get a clinical degree and not publish at least once is beyond me. Even for a clinically-oriented person. I mean, I'm a research-oriented person and I view not publishing in the same way I'd view it if I only did asessments and initial sessions and never actually carried my clinical work all the way through and completed therapy! This is grad school...finish what you start.

Does anyone know if those numbers are just in print articles, or are in-press and under-review included as well?

If its in print...I can come a little closer to understanding since the review process is so heinously long for alot of journals that I have no idea how many publications I'll actually have at graduation. If in press and under review stuff will count though, then there's no excuse...

Here's hoping for breaking into the double digits as a grad student🙂
Click to expand...

If you don’t plan on going into academics, what exactly is the purpose of publications (other than perhaps looking more impressive on your cv)?

Also, very often students are not the 1st authors of publications. These publications are less a reflection on the student than on if the student is around professors who publish a lot.
 
parto123 said:
If you don't plan on going into academics, what exactly is the purpose of publications (other than perhaps looking more impressive on your cv)?
Click to expand...
It is a way to get information out there for others. I am not a traditional researcher, but I plan on doing research here and there as I progress through my career. It will never be a large research study as I prefer more exploratory work and case study work, but I'm hoping that can help others in their work.

Things like presentations/workshops are a great way to get new information out to people who may or may not have access to it. I lean much more on the applied side, so I hope my work is something that clinicians can pick up and use. For instance, I presented at a conference a couple years ago and was able to provide direct interventions that I found effective in a particular setting. It wasn't ground breaking work, but it was something that could be brought right into the clinical setting and used (when applicable).
 
Ollie123 said:
Yeah, those numbers are always a great pick-me-up when I think about how competitive things can be in this field. The numbers just baffle me. I guess grad students can be just as lazy as undergrads...

How anyone can get a clinical degree and not publish at least once is beyond me. Even for a clinically-oriented person. I mean, I'm a research-oriented person and I view not publishing in the same way I'd view it if I only did asessments and initial sessions and never actually carried my clinical work all the way through and completed therapy! This is grad school...finish what you start.

Does anyone know if those numbers are just in print articles, or are in-press and under-review included as well?

If its in print...I can come a little closer to understanding since the review process is so heinously long for alot of journals that I have no idea how many publications I'll actually have at graduation. If in press and under review stuff will count though, then there's no excuse...

Here's hoping for breaking into the double digits as a grad student🙂
Click to expand...



Also keep in mind that these stats are looking at clinical Ph.D. & Psy.D., counseling, and school psychology students, as a composite. If it was broken down looking just at clinical Ph.D. students, I'm sure you would see more publications.
 
parto123 said:
If you don't plan on going into academics, what exactly is the purpose of publications (other than perhaps looking more impressive on your cv)?

Also, very often students are not the 1st authors of publications. These publications are less a reflection on the student than on if the student is around professors who publish a lot.
Click to expand...

Well, I think alot of it is just understanding the research process. That's why I think at least one should just be a requirement. I don't intend to be a clinician but I can't imagine not doing therapy as a grad student. Its a part of the learning process - everyone should have to experience both sides of it so they understand where each is coming from. Therapy will help me keep a clinical framework in mind for my future research, and I think the same can be said for a therapist who needs to be guided by research understanding the process of going through peer reviews.

It IS true that not everyone is going to be around faculty churning out papers like crazy but zero? There is NO excuse for that. Anyone who can't find one opportunity to publish in 4 years of grad school just can't be trying. Its not like I'm saying everyone should publish in an APA journal, even a quick survey published in a small journal so someone can get a feel for the peer-review process. Doesn't even have to be first author, just something to show that you put at least a tiny bit of effort in.
 
parto123 said:
Also, very often students are not the 1st authors of publications. These publications are less a reflection on the student than on if the student is around professors who publish a lot.
Click to expand...

I think this is an important point. Perhaps only having 2 pubs, but both being 1st authored would be equivalent to having 5 pubs of 2nd or 3rd author? It would be interesting to find some stats on the # of 1st authored pubs.

Oh, and ditto on the good luck, hope y'all get a positive e-mail in the morning!
 
I just matched!! Has anyone else heard????
 
Congrats to both of you! (and all future matched posters!)
 
I also matched this morning! Monday feels like a long time to wait to find out where!...
As for the number of publications "needed" to get an internship at a top research-oriented site, my opinion is that, much like applying to grad school, it is easy to overemphasize the importance of your stats. I believe that things like fit with the program, well rounded clinical experience, and having strong letters from well regarded faculty (particularly if they have connections at a given site) are more important in getting a second look by these programs. Programs will look for evidence of a commitment to research through some publications and presentations, but I think programs are generally not going to take an applicant with 10 publications over one who has 2 or 3 but better fit, stronger letters, etc.
I am at a strongly research-oriented program that has a good record of placing students in these top programs. From my cohort applying to internship this year, number of publications was in no way a reliable predictor of number of interviews or who got interviews at which top sites. Nor was the number of clinical hours, in fact. In my experience, I was most likely to get interviews at programs where the clinical opportunities and orientation along with the associated research were a good fit for my experience and interests.
 
Ollie123 said:
Well, I think alot of it is just understanding the research process. That's why I think at least one should just be a requirement. I don't intend to be a clinician but I can't imagine not doing therapy as a grad student. Its a part of the learning process - everyone should have to experience both sides of it so they understand where each is coming from. Therapy will help me keep a clinical framework in mind for my future research, and I think the same can be said for a therapist who needs to be guided by research understanding the process of going through peer reviews.

It IS true that not everyone is going to be around faculty churning out papers like crazy but zero? There is NO excuse for that. Anyone who can't find one opportunity to publish in 4 years of grad school just can't be trying. Its not like I'm saying everyone should publish in an APA journal, even a quick survey published in a small journal so someone can get a feel for the peer-review process. Doesn't even have to be first author, just something to show that you put at least a tiny bit of effort in.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you think its important for a clinician to publish, simply because in psychology there is an expectation to publish. However, if you look at other professions, such as lawyer, doctor, banker, teacher etc., you really wont find many people who claim that publication is important for a practitioner- even though these professions have just as much, if not more research, theory and publications behind them. I don’t see why psychology would be so different from most other profession that makes publishing more important for a practitioner.

Also, congrats to everyone on matching!
 
I matched!! Whew! I was not looking forward to clearinghouse!
 
Congratulations to everyone on matching. And I hope you get one of your top spots!!!

:hardy::hardy::hardy::hardy:
 
"Matchmaker, matchmaker, make me a match!"

So how much will you all get paid for these internships? Everyone, please join in, "If I were a rich man..." (don't you guys love my singing?)

And all of you thought that Fiddler on the Roof was a musical about Russian Jews in the 1800's! :laugh:

Congratulations! 👍
 
GiantSteps said:
"Matchmaker, matchmaker, make me a match!"

So how much will you all get paid for these internships? Everyone, please join in, "If I were a rich man..." (don't you guys love my singing?)

And all of you thought that Fiddler on the Roof was a musical about Russian Jews in the 1800's! :laugh:

Congratulations! 👍
Click to expand...

Well my guess is that 73BARMYPgsp has the winning lottery ticket. Minimum of $50k per year, possibly a good deal more. Not bad for an Internship... Wonder if he's going to Trippler (Hawaii) too?

Mark
 
GiantSteps said:
"Matchmaker, matchmaker, make me a match!"

So how much will you all get paid for these internships? Everyone, please join in, "If I were a rich man..." (don't you guys love my singing?)

And all of you thought that Fiddler on the Roof was a musical about Russian Jews in the 1800's! :laugh:

Congratulations! 👍
Click to expand...


Most pay about 20k
 
Anybody here from Therapist4Change??? --- he ususlly posts all the time on here
 
Markp said:
Well my guess is that 73BARMYPgsp has the winning lottery ticket. Minimum of $50k per year, possibly a good deal more. Not bad for an Internship... Wonder if he's going to Trippler (Hawaii) too?

Mark
Click to expand...

I almost feel bad about this, but someone asked about the pay.

0-3E W/ 7 years service base bay: $4740.00
BAH for zip code 98401 (Ft. Lewis WA-My first choice): $1802.00 (Non-Taxable)
BAS for officers: 101.00

Total compensation for one year before taxes: $79,716.00

Plus my wife is a nurse and will given spouse preference to work at the same MEDCEN as me.

Edit--The smallest BAH is Eisenhower Army Med Cen weighing in at $1298.00. SO if you do the math, the LEAST I will make is $73,668.00
 
parto123 said:
It sounds like you think its important for a clinician to publish, simply because in psychology there is an expectation to publish. However, if you look at other professions, such as lawyer, doctor, banker, teacher etc., you really wont find many people who claim that publication is important for a practitioner- even though these professions have just as much, if not more research, theory and publications behind them. I don't see why psychology would be so different from most other profession that makes publishing more important for a practitioner.

Also, congrats to everyone on matching!
Click to expand...

Doesn't really have anything to do with expectations for the profession as a whole so much as ones ability to fully understand the process to know how to interpret new research that's coming out, something any remotely responsible practitioner should be able to do.

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree here. I don't like comparing across professions - of the ones you listed I think doctor is the only one even close to a valid comparison, and there definitely IS pressure for doctors to publish. Not as much admittedly, but the people I know in med school were definitely encouraged to publish as a part of their schooling regardless of their career goals. Their professors seemed to think it would give them a niche and help them better understand one specific area and help make them better doctors overall.

That being said, mostly I just can't imagine not taking advantage of a whole broad area of graduate school when this is a time for learning. I'm still seeking out neat clinical opportunities I won't likely ever have a use for in my career in the interest of having a broad and full graduate school experience. I'm not sure if there are any schools that are THAT awful where a student would seriously be unable to find one opportunity to publish during a 4-or-more year stint. Obviously a clinically-oriented school probably does not have as much pressure to publish, but I doubt their faculty are just sitting around twiddling their thumbs all day long. Case studies, brief surveys, little things like that have to still be on the table.

I think alot of it is just sloth on the part of the student - people who just kind of want to "get by" and don't seem to care about taking full advantage of their education. Dangerous for someone in a healthcare field, and not someone I like the idea of sharing a degree with. Again, I'm not saying everyone needs to do tons of research, but to not publish at all? Did they do ANY research as a grad student?

Like I said before, its like me not learning therapy or assessment. They're not terribly relevant to my goals given I'm more interested in experimental than treatment research, but that doesn't mean I completely blow off ALL opportunities to get involved on that front.
 
Where is T4C, anyway? I hope he's not having to do the clearinghouse thing...
 
Yeah, I know, T4C practically lives on this board, so the fact that he isn't posting is very bizarre........
 
biogirl215 said:
Where is T4C, anyway? I hope he's not having to do the clearinghouse thing...
Click to expand...

I was running around on Friday trying to gather myself, and today I've had work all day. I just got home and figured I'd check in. It was nice that people wondered where I was, but a bummer that I don' t have better news.

Unfortunately I'm a casualty of the clearing house. 🙁 I only applying to competitive sites and although I had a bunch of interviews (most of which I thought went quite well), I came up empty handed. I knew I was in a bit of trouble when I asked each site about how far down their list they usually needed to go....and it was never very far. It's frustrating when you can beat out 200-300+ people at each site, only to lose out in the final group of 10-20. 🙁

This process sucks, and I wish it was over. My school placed pretty well (83%), so I'm definitely feeling like the ******* at the moment. I think what is most frustrating is that I know I'm not a bad candidate, and yet here I am....still in clearing house. I know good applicants get there too....but that doesn't make it any easier to deal with. I'm now wishing I considered some less competitive placements, but they were all compromises that didn't meet my needs. Of course now I'd take most any of the ones I ruled out back in October.

If anyone has connections at an APA-approved sites at a hospital (in-patient and/or out-patient) or college counseling center...feel free to drop me a line. I'm not averse to community mental health centers, I'm just a bit hesitant as I've heard the training can vary greatly. I'm looking for primarily clinical / assessment work, with some out-reach / program development, and maybe a research/teaching opportunity. I have a couple people I can call, but I am looking for any in I can get at the moment.

I am hoping to get this taken care of this on monday....but who knows.

Congrats on all who matched, it must be a relief.
 
Therapist4Chnge said:
I was running around on Friday trying to gather myself, and today I've had work all day. I just got home and figured I'd check in. It was nice that people wondered where I was, but a bummer that I don' t have better news.

Unfortunately I'm a casualty of the clearing house. 🙁 I only applying to competitive sites and although I had a bunch of interviews (most of which I thought went quite well), I came up empty handed. I knew I was in a bit of trouble when I asked each site about how far down their list they usually needed to go....and it was never very far. It's frustrating when you can beat out 200-300+ people at each site, only to lose out in the final group of 10-20. 🙁
Click to expand...


You know what, you were brave enough to reach for the brass ring, you have my respect for not compromising. I know you are probably licking your wounds right now, but you would have kicked yourself for not going for it!

Obviously at 83% your school did well. Here is to hoping the clearinghouse happens to throw you something unexpectedly pleasant!

Mark
 
Good luck T4C!

I think another frequent poster shared a while back that he was matched through the clearinghouse due to some interview issues, and is now in a competitive medical site after internship.
 
Congrats to everyone who's been matched. 😀

T4C, I'm not much of a poster on here, but I browse the forum all the time. I have absolutely no doubt you'll find a terrific internship still, you sound like such an amazing candidate and you're so knowledgeable about everything it seems. I hope you're able to find one that fits your interests very much as well.

I'm a first year at the Adler School in Chicago, and we matched over 70% this year, so I'm happy for that cohort. The past five years we've been in the 60s (averaging around 65 I believe), so we're improving. 🙂
 
T4C, so sorry to hear that things did not go as planned on Friday. I'm thinking of you (and all the other very qualified people who end up getting screwed by this process. It really sucks.).

Best of luck in the clearinghouse!
 
Dear T4C (and others who may be lurking who were disappointed in the Match): No one wants to go to the Clearinghouse but qualified candidates who are open to the process find places they end up loving. There will be sites on Monday who are having their turn at being disappointed and they will be happy to find you if you have matching interests. There are even places that open up in the Clearinghouse over the next 6 months that are wonderful opportunities. So do some grieving over the lost dreams and get ready for some realities and new possibilities on Monday. One of the hallmarks of mental health is "response flexibility" and it just happens that your capacity in this domain is up to bat. My guess is that you will find something in the Clearinghouse and a year from now have no regrets...In any case, Good Luck...
 
JockNerd said:
Good luck T4C!

I think another frequent poster shared a while back that he was matched through the clearinghouse due to some interview issues, and is now in a competitive medical site after internship.
Click to expand...

Yeah....I know who you mean, he was definitely a top guy.

Markro311 said:
Congrats to everyone who's been matched. 😀

T4C, I'm not much of a poster on here, but I browse the forum all the time. I have absolutely no doubt you'll find a terrific internship still, you sound like such an amazing candidate and you're so knowledgeable about everything it seems. I hope you're able to find one that fits your interests very much as well.
Click to expand...

I hope I can convey that on Monday.

I think what is most frustrating is that they try and make everything "fair", and it sure doesn't seem fair. I'm hoping for the best on Monday.
 
Therapist4Chnge said:
I was running around on Friday trying to gather myself, and today I've had work all day. I just got home and figured I'd check in. It was nice that people wondered where I was, but a bummer that I don' t have better news.

Unfortunately I'm a casualty of the clearing house. 🙁 I only applying to competitive sites and although I had a bunch of interviews (most of which I thought went quite well), I came up empty handed. I knew I was in a bit of trouble when I asked each site about how far down their list they usually needed to go....and it was never very far. It's frustrating when you can beat out 200-300+ people at each site, only to lose out in the final group of 10-20. 🙁

This process sucks, and I wish it was over. My school placed pretty well (83%), so I'm definitely feeling like the ******* at the moment. I think what is most frustrating is that I know I'm not a bad candidate, and yet here I am....still in clearing house. I know good applicants get there too....but that doesn't make it any easier to deal with. I'm now wishing I considered some less competitive placements, but they were all compromises that didn't meet my needs. Of course now I'd take most any of the ones I ruled out back in October.

If anyone has connections at an APA-approved sites at a hospital (in-patient and/or out-patient) or college counseling center...feel free to drop me a line. I'm not averse to community mental health centers, I'm just a bit hesitant as I've heard the training can vary greatly. I'm looking for primarily clinical / assessment work, with some out-reach / program development, and maybe a research/teaching opportunity. I have a couple people I can call, but I am looking for any in I can get at the moment.

I am hoping to get this taken care of this on monday....but who knows.

Congrats on all who matched, it must be a relief.
Click to expand...

I don’t mean to be rude or hurtful, but im curious why you wouldn’t apply to a few safeties, considering how competitive the process is. Either way, good luck.
 
I'm sorry to hear that, T4C... However, looking it your school's data, it appears that most who went through Clearinghouse did get APA-accredited internships, so the odds are still good for you. 🙂 I'll be thinking of you, for what little it's worth.

For those with knowledge of the Clearinghouse, how long does the process usually take?
 
T4C Add me to the list of people who are rooting for you. I will be thinking of you on Monday.
 
parto123 said:
I don't mean to be rude or hurtful, but im curious why you wouldn't apply to a few safeties, considering how competitive the process is. Either way, good luck.
Click to expand...

Within my areas of interest I applied to what seemed like 'safety' slots, but in reality....there really aren't safety spots for APA-approved hospitals or counseling centers. My 'safety' spots were a few rural hospitals/counseling centers that didn't get as many applications as the major uni hospitals/counseling centers because of the location (though still 50-150 apps for 2-3 spots). A couple wrote me about the special needs of rural pops, and I wasn't a good match.

biogirl215 said:
I'm sorry to hear that, T4C... However, looking it your school's data, it appears that most who went through Clearinghouse did get APA-accredited internships, so the odds are still good for you. 🙂 I'll be thinking of you, for what little it's worth.
Click to expand...

Hopefully I can get a spot and stop stressing out. I don't stress out easily, though this has me a bit unnerved.

Jivan said:
Best of luck T4C!
Click to expand...

Thanks!

zeldazelda said:
T4C Add me to the list of people who are rooting for you. I will be thinking of you on Monday.
Click to expand...

Thanks!
 
Sorry to hear it didn't work out the way you were hoping, but I know plenty of people do very well in clearinghouse and I'm sure you will soon be one of them🙂
 
Good luck in the Clearinghouse -- a lot of ppl find positions in there, and I hope you do, too!!!
 
Not sure what (if any) your geographical limitations might be, but this ad was posted on Friday's ABCT listserv:

If you know of students who participated in the APPIC Internship Match this year, but are not matched and plan to participate in Clearinghouse, please pass this information on to them.

The Iowa City VA Medical Center plans to welcome its inaugural intern class in September 2008. Due to time constraints, we did not participate in the Match, so our three positions will be filled during the APPIC Clearinghouse. Our program will also be announced on the APPIC Clearinghouse listserv.

Although we will not begin reviewing application materials until Monday (when Clearinghouse officially opens) students who are not matched may want to investigate our program online over the weekend. A brochure with information about the internship can be found on our website at http://www.iowacity.va.gov/careers/PsychIntern/Index.asp

Best of luck with the Match! Feel free to contact Dr. Doris Stormoen, our Director of Training [email protected] regarding questions and to submit application materials. Or write to me back channel ([email protected]) with questions about the internship.

Thank you,
Heather Cochran, Ph.D.
PTSD Clinical Team Coordinator
Staff Psychologist
Training Committee Member
VA Medical Center
601 Highway 6 West
Iowa City, IA 52246
(319) 338-0581 ext. 5480

Wishing you the best as you negotiate the Clearinghouse tomorrow... I have known several great applicants who just had lousy luck negotiating the rank order list, and still found great positions that gave them the opportunity to move forward with their lives!
 
LM02, it doesn't look like that site is APA-accredited yet; am I reading it wrong?
 
Don't know. I just copied and pasted from an email...
 
Therapist4Chnge said:
Much appreciated!

I'm open to move pretty much anywhere....though I'm not wild about major cities like Boston and NYC (cost mostly, as I use to be a city person). I'll check it out.
Click to expand...

Oh sure T4C, I can understand Boston, but NYC! It is good enough for the Mets ( correction: your Mets) but not for T4C! I suppose you make a good point about the expense involved in living in a big city. However, are you aware that "4" on the keyboard is the same key "$"? I think I have even seen you make this Freudian slip before. Your name could easily be understood as a psychologolical repression through distortion of your true name: "Therapist$ (i.e.money)Chnge"! Clearly you have unconsciously repressed the idea of money in your name since your true desire is to be in NYC so that you can see your Mets win a championship! As a former businessman you also unconsciously reject the idea of clinical psychologists shunning money for the supposed higher good of helping people work through their terrible mental health problems. In fact, if we take this a step further, we can see that the internship sites did not reject you; rather, you unconsciously rejected them since the minimal salaries which each could offer you were insults! Now, T4C, sorry T$C, wasn't my psychoanalyzing of you cathartic? You feel like a new man ready on Monday to accept his high paying APA internship in NYC! I have cured you of all of your neuroses! Wait until all of you read T$C's posts from here on out now that he is writing without the burden of his repressive symptoms!:laugh:

Now, let's see, all of this at standard rate should cost you $300. Subtract the student discount and my bill is $250! Cash or checks only, I do not accept any insurance plans (Insurance plans would not recognize any of my diagnostic categories. Hence, I would have to stigmatize you with some burdensome DSM-IV code and where would that get you?:laugh:)!

Now, T$C, run along before there is any transference! Now that you are cured the last thing you need is for Empathiosis 😍 to direct her jeoulous rage at you once she sees that you suddenly have unexplained feelings for me! :laugh:
 
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