Interview question: Why do YOU want MD, and not DO?

[drmota]

The schools that I was interested in based on match list, reputation, and location were all MD schools (at an interview point out that you want to go to THAT school, and it gives out MD degrees).

DO's have a challenging time if they want to do any kind of international work as some countries do not recognize the degree.

this is great advice.
-mota

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[DropkickMurphy]

Yes, I've heard of OMT used for just about everything, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it is worthwhile or proper to do so. A lot of the "research" I have seen to support OMT for various conditions is so poorly constructed to be laughable; beyond the musculoskeletal problems it really has no definitive use so far as I can tell (and several of my DO friends agree with this)

 

[Taus]

Yes, I've heard of OMT used for just about everything, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it is worthwhile or proper to do so. A lot of the "research" I have seen to support OMT for various conditions is so poorly constructed to be laughable; beyond the musculoskeletal problems it really has no definitive use so far as I can tell (and several of my DO friends agree with this)

be that as it may....being able to treat common musculoskeletal problems (ie back-ache/joint & muscle pain/many forms of headaches) is pretty cool to me.

For many people...it doesn't interest them....nothing wrong w/ that....to each his/her own...

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I find it fascinatingly useful for its benefits in the cases of musculoskeletal disorders, but I do think that OMT and osteopathy has been seriously been hurt by those who seek to further expand the critieria for the use of this treatment option. This is especially true when very poor quality research is used to back up the claims.

 

[Chris127]

Hmmm, ok, let me throw this out. I am sure it is a common scenario...

Lets say you are applying to med school. You have a 3.4, 28 MCAT, average ECs and LORs. You apply to 10 allo schools, and 1 DO school. Because of your stats, you get in to no MD schools, yet the DO school grants you an acceptance

You can either A) Do post bacc work, apply to allo next year or, B) Take the DO acceptance

Which would you do?

My second question. It has been established that osteapathic schools train you more for primary care. Would a DO have a significant disadvantage in getting into an allo residency? (for, lets say, surgery, optho, derm, rads)?

 

[Pharos]

OK, so I'm too lazy to search for the history, so here's my question (in several parts):

MDs are Medical Doctors (or something similar in Latin), and practice allopathic medicine.

DOs are Doctors of Osteopathy, but why not Osteopathic Doctors? Did they just not want to be OD, for the stigma of Overdose?

And did veterinarians not want to be VD (Veterinary Doctors, or venereal disease), so they chose DVM?

Or should we just switch to DM? I want a consensus!

Here’s a little trivial information for ya………..Actually, the M.D. doesn’t stand for Medical Doctor (medical doctors are what we MD and DOs are, "Medical Doctor" it is not the degree that’s conferred) – the MD stands for Doctor of Medicine. The abbreviated letters are switched because of its European ancestry (i.e. Medcine de Docteur, for example - ? spelling). The D.O. degree currently stands for Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine, but the original degree (way back when, was Doctor of Osteopathy). I would assume the abbreviation was in the “forward” direction because it had American (English language) origins. I also suspect that the DO letters remained over time because it was simply too much work to change to MDO or OMD, etc, etc (this, and the fact that the Doctor of Osteopathy degree truly was where the current Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine degree gained its origins). Not sure when the OD degree began, but I actually don’t think it had much to do with it (however, I’m certainly not an expert, so someone feel free to correct me at any time).

 

[Chris127]

Here’s a little trivial information for ya………..Actually, the M.D. doesn’t stand for Medical Doctor (medical doctors are what we MD and DOs are, "Medical Doctor" it is not the degree that’s conferred) – the MD stands for Doctor of Medicine. The abbreviated letters are switched because of its European ancestry (i.e. Medcine de Docteur, for example - ? spelling). The D.O. degree currently stands for Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine, but the original degree (way back when, was Doctor of Osteopathy). I would assume the abbreviation was in the “forward” direction because it had American (English language) origins. I also suspect that the DO letters remained over time because it was simply too much work to change to MDO or OMD, etc, etc (this, and the fact that the Doctor of Osteopathy degree truly was where the current Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine degree gained its origins). Not sure when the OD degree began, but I actually don’t think it had much to do with it (however, I’m certainly not an expert, so someone feel free to correct me at any time).

Great info

 

[JMC_MarineCorps]

Flame war waiting to happen........... but you deserve an answer anyway.

An analogy -- If I were a football player I'd want to play in the NFL rather than the arena football league.

Premiere NFL wideouts Chad Johnson and Steve Smith both started out at Santa Monica Junior College. And superbowl MVP Kurt Warner was bagging groceries the year before he became an immediate NFL star. Just to name a few exceptions...not a strong argument, but I am bored and you needed to know that I am watching you.

To the OP...if you had to anser this question honestly, I would say, "because I would like to be taken seriously and employable when all is said and done." That should suffice!

 

[nvshelat]

Dad: You got another rejection letter today.

Me: Oh?

Dad. Yeah. What are you going to do if you don't get into medical school? Do you have a backup plan? Have you applied to different jobs yet?

Me: Well, I applied to DO schools too; I think I'll get into atleast one of them.

Dad: What kind of school is DO school?

Me: (not in the mood to explain): It's medical school, Dad.

Dad: What does it stand for?

Me: Doctor of osteopathy

Dad: Osteopathy? Oh, so you want to be a bone doctor? That's good, they make good money.

I suppose it would be nice to have to avoid all of that...

 

[chaeymaey]

Before SDN I also thought DO's were bone doctors and my family and I went to a wedding of this couple who were starting TCOM that fall. My mom was like, what's a DO? and I said, bone doctor and she said, well people to break a lot of bones when they get old. Haha, those were the days.

 

[Telemachus]

Premiere NFL wideouts Chad Johnson and Steve Smith both started out at Santa Monica Junior College. And superbowl MVP Kurt Warner was bagging groceries the year before he became an immediate NFL star. Just to name a few exceptions...not a strong argument, but I am bored and you needed to know that I am watching you.

Get bent. It is a good analogy, and you helped prove it by citing Warner. The NFL and arena league play a similar game with the same basic goal but employ a few different strategies and methods. There is some cross-over between the leagues in terms of personel; and despite the similarities one league attracts more attention, is generally regarded as the place that attracts the stronger prospects, and is regarded by the public as the gold standard for the profession.

 

[arkroyal]

Get bent. It is a good analogy, and you helped prove it by citing Warner. The NFL and arena league play a similar game with the same basic goal but employ a few different strategies and methods. There is some cross-over between the leagues in terms of personel; and despite the similarities one league attracts more attention, is generally regarded as the place that attracts the stronger prospects, and is regarded by the public as the gold standard for the profession.

yeah, except the nfl and arena league players would be making the same amount of money. if you're going to put sports analogies, i would compare it to the NL and AL of baseball. By the way TCOM in texas has same stats as the other med schools with the exception of southwestern and baylor.

 

[jbone]

Here’s a little trivial information for ya………..Actually, the M.D. doesn’t stand for Medical Doctor (medical doctors are what we MD and DOs are, "Medical Doctor" it is not the degree that’s conferred) – the MD stands for Doctor of Medicine. The abbreviated letters are switched because of its European ancestry (i.e. Medcine de Docteur, for example - ? spelling). The D.O. degree currently stands for Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine, but the original degree (way back when, was Doctor of Osteopathy). I would assume the abbreviation was in the “forward” direction because it had American (English language) origins. I also suspect that the DO letters remained over time because it was simply too much work to change to MDO or OMD, etc, etc (this, and the fact that the Doctor of Osteopathy degree truly was where the current Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine degree gained its origins). Not sure when the OD degree began, but I actually don’t think it had much to do with it (however, I’m certainly not an expert, so someone feel free to correct me at any time).

Interesting.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Get bent. It is a good analogy, and you helped prove it by citing Warner. The NFL and arena league play a similar game with the same basic goal but employ a few different strategies and methods. There is some cross-over between the leagues in terms of personel; and despite the similarities one league attracts more attention, is generally regarded as the place that attracts the stronger prospects, and is regarded by the public as the gold standard for the profession.

whatever. it's an insulting comparison, and you know it. you're essentially saying that do's are the less qualified and trashier component of the medical world. arena league football players are worse players than nfl players. do you think do's are worse doctors? if so, you get bent.

 

[dr.z]

Here’s a little trivial information for ya………..Actually, the M.D. doesn’t stand for Medical Doctor (medical doctors are what we MD and DOs are, "Medical Doctor" it is not the degree that’s conferred) – the MD stands for Doctor of Medicine. The abbreviated letters are switched because of its European ancestry (i.e. Medcine de Docteur, for example - ? spelling). The D.O. degree currently stands for Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine, but the original degree (way back when, was Doctor of Osteopathy). I would assume the abbreviation was in the “forward” direction because it had American (English language) origins. I also suspect that the DO letters remained over time because it was simply too much work to change to MDO or OMD, etc, etc (this, and the fact that the Doctor of Osteopathy degree truly was where the current Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine degree gained its origins). Not sure when the OD degree began, but I actually don’t think it had much to do with it (however, I’m certainly not an expert, so someone feel free to correct me at any time).

Thanks for the info. I learned something new today.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Actually MD is an abbreviation for the Latin for doctor of medicine.

 

[jbone]

whatever. it's an insulting comparison, and you know it. you're essentially saying that do's are the less qualified and trashier component of the medical world. arena league football players are worse players than nfl players. do you think do's are worse doctors? if so, you get bent.

Dude, I think she just virtually "bitch slapped" you. Nice. Felt that one over the internet. Ouch! You go girl!

 

[Telemachus]

whatever. it's an insulting comparison, and you know it. you're essentially saying that do's are the less qualified and trashier component of the medical world. arena league football players are worse players than nfl players. do you think do's are worse doctors? if so, you get bent.

How dare you defame arena football players like that! Just because some people think one way doesn't make it true. I cite the aforementioned Kurt Warner.

 

[Napoleon4000]

You know degree of no degree, I'm getting the sense that many people here want to hide a major flaw (as we all have) behind this or that degree. Of course this is a generalization. I'm very saddened by the fact that this thread, originally to understand the real difference, has turned into this debacle. Sad. So to the Mods I apologize for having to repost this. There is really no difference between the degree except those imposed by our society. To those who need to hide their insecurity behind the veil of superiority I say, please, go right ahead. To those who yearn for a challenge, I say, have fun. To those who want to learn, I say dig in. To those that want to make money, I say good luck. And finally to those who seek a different form of art, I say let's paint! So here it is again:

I'm not sure if there are any REAL differences exept by the elitism which is part of both MD (who think they are better trained out of tradition) and DO (who think they are more holistic) but here we go:

1. The average GPA and MCAT scores for osteopathic matriculants in 2002 were 3.4 and 25, respectively, as compared to 3.45 and 30 at allopathic schools.

2. Allopathic training will give you the option to practice in any of the medical specialties, and, unlike the D.O. (Doctorate of Osteopathic Medicine), the M.D. is universally recognized as a medical degree. If you are interested in practicing overseas, the M.D. is far easier to negotiate with than is the D.O.

3. D.O. programs concentrate more effort on primary care, training strong, general physicians before specialists. They emphasize preventative care and a holistic approach to patient care, treating the whole person, not just symptoms;


4. D.O. programs focus extra attention on musculo-skeletal health and train students in Osteopathic Manipulative Treatment, a unique, hands-on approach to diagnosis and treatment;


5. M.D.s do their clinical rotations in a teaching hospital affiliated with their medical school while D.O.s do their clinical rotations in community hospitals and local doctor's offices;

6. D.O.s must pass the COMLEX board exam to be licensed; in some cases, D.O.s also take the USMLE board exam if they choose to compete for some allopathic residency program;

7. D.O.s have the option of pursuing an osteopathic residency program or applying for a residency through the National Residency Match Program ("The Match") used by allopathic physicians.

One final factor to consider is that, while most D.O.s feel that their training is as strong as, if not superior to, M.D. training, prospective D.O.s should be prepared to be a part of the minority in the medical community. Because they comprise only 6 percent of American doctors, osteopathic physicians must often explain—and sometimes defend—their educational background. When considering the weight of this issue, it may also be useful to consider where you plan to practice. In states such as Pennsylvania and Michigan, osteopathic doctors comprise about 10 percent of all practicing physicians, whereas in many Southern and Southwesters states like Arizona and Arkansas, they make up less than 1 percent of the physician population. If you are not comfortable being part of a misunderstood or minority group, osteopathy may not be a good fit for you.

Whether you chose to become an M.D. or a D.O., medical school is a long and challenging journey that will require stamina, commitment, and a lot of hard work. You will be most successful—not to mention happiest—in a program that fits with your personal philosophy and career goals. Before you apply to any medical school, allopathic or osteopathic, you should carefully consider where you can get the education you need to do the work you want to do.


The best way to decide which path is right for you is to spend time with both M.D.s and D.O.s, and to talk with them about the differences in their practices.

Disclaimer all this info is from www.princetonreview.com

 

[LTrain1]

I need to give props to the guy with the NFL-AFL comparison. It really is spot-on accurate. Even though Arena players have lower stats, they aren't inferior football players. They simply *prefer* the rules of the arena league and the cities the teams are located in. 40 times and drills cannot accurately determine who will be a better football player, as they are only numbers. Also, the rules of arena, like the learning of omt, are different. Some people like the walls on the sidelines and kickoffs off the net. So to all the people above who said it was an insulting comparison, look at your own situation and then judge arena players. They all wanted to go arena in the first place because the nfl only cares about numbers and isn't as innovative.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I need to give props to the guy with the NFL-AFL comparison. It really is spot-on accurate. Even though Arena players have lower stats, they aren't inferior football players. They simply *prefer* the rules of the arena league and the cities the teams are located in. 40 times and drills cannot accurately determine who will be a better football player, as they are only numbers. Also, the rules of arena, like the learning of omt, are different. Some people like the walls on the sidelines and kickoffs off the net. So to all the people above who said it was an insulting comparison, look at your own situation and then judge arena players. They all wanted to go arena in the first place because the nfl only cares about numbers and isn't as innovative.

so lame. so are you an a$$hole in real life or just on message boards?

 

[gujuDoc]

OD is the degree an optometrist gets. I think OD might have already been taken.



Well what else is there that distinguishes a DO from an MD besides those? Hello!



Actually, I've heard of DO's using OMT to treat sinus conditions, etc., so it might be used if you were an ENT.

And you know, in theory, boobs on a boy dog could act as a placebo to puppies if the mother wasn't around. I mean, they say to put a ticking clock (to simulate a heartbeat) in a blanket that smells like you to help keep a puppy calm at night, so boy dog boobs could definitely have potential.

I don't know why you are attacking me. I was just stating my answer to the original question. I'm well aware that is what supposedly distinguish the two. However, NOT ALL DO's use OMT and many go to allopathic residencies where there real training begins. Hence, in effect they are not going to be that distinguished. And if that is the case, then what is the point of learning OMT at all??? That was my point. And as a result, I don't know how much I'd like DO school.

But whatever. I knew someone would turn this into an attack thread eventually.

 

[fullefect1]

Just tell them that you would have no chance in hell matching into the Harvard orthopedics combined residency program.

 

[LTrain1]

so lame. so are you an a$$hole in real life or just on message boards?

please refute my point, no attacks are necessary. I really want to know how I was wrong because your attack of arena players is no different no people dissing d.o.'s. I think I illustrated your hypocrisy nicely.

 

[humuhumu]

My interviewer: Why do you want MD and not DO?
Me: Cause I want to treat the disease, not the patient. Ka-ching!
Interviewer & I high five enthusiastically.

In reality: blah blah specialization blah blah research blah blah thank god interview season is coming to an end

 

[Doctor Bagel]

please refute my point, no attacks are necessary. I really want to know how I was wrong because your attack of arena players is no different no people dissing d.o.'s. I think I illustrated your hypocrisy nicely.

no, your post was riddled with sarcasm and full of the implication that no one chooses to go do over md. that's why it was obnoxious. also, we all know that arena football is inferior, and it's facetious to try to pretend otherwise. that's why the comparison is so offensive. nfl is on primetime television. don't they show arena football at like midnight or some other absurd time?

sorry, no hypocrisy there. granted, your initial post was clever, but it was still rude and supportive of a false analogy.

 

[Pewl]

no, your post was riddled with sarcasm and full of the implication that no one chooses to go do over md. that's why it was obnoxious. also, we all know that arena football is inferior, and it's facetious to try to pretend otherwise. that's why the comparison is so offensive. nfl is on primetime television. don't they show arena football at like midnight or some other absurd time?

sorry, no hypocrisy there. granted, your initial post was clever, but it was still rude and supportive of a false analogy.

HAHAHA Arena Football is generally just shown on local stations. My only issue with it is how small the fields are, and how they don't play any defense at all! They make scoring look easy. Whereas, in the NFL the defense is really, really out to kill you! =P

 

[Telemachus]

no, your post was riddled with sarcasm and full of the implication that no one chooses to go do over md. that's why it was obnoxious. also, we all know that arena football is inferior, and it's facetious to try to pretend otherwise. that's why the comparison is so offensive. nfl is on primetime television. don't they show arena football at like midnight or some other absurd time?

sorry, no hypocrisy there. granted, your initial post was clever, but it was still rude and supportive of a false analogy.

Aren't you now advocating a positon held by a large portion of the public that is based, in part, on a lack of exposure to and knowledge of one of the groups in question? And isn't that what some are claiming is happening to DO's?

"we all know that arena football is inferior" = "we all know that DO's are inferior" ??????

 

[arkroyal]

the medical education training of a DO and MD differ by one set of courses and that is the OMTs. Most DOs go into allopathic certified residencies and alot go into non primary care programs (the surgical anesthiologist for Presidents Reagan and Bush was a DO)

 

[JonnyG]

it appears Taus has his flame war. So gratifying right before a test

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Aren't you now advocating a positon held by a large portion of the public that is based, in part, on a lack of exposure to and knowledge of one of the groups in question? And isn't that what some are claiming is happening to DO's?

"we all know that arena football is inferior" = "we all know that DO's are inferior" ??????

well, aren't you clever? i still think your intent was to be insulting.

 

[silas2642]

OK, so I'm too lazy to search for the history, so here's my question (in several parts):

MDs are Medical Doctors (or something similar in Latin), and practice allopathic medicine.

DOs are Doctors of Osteopathy, but why not Osteopathic Doctors? Did they just not want to be OD, for the stigma of Overdose?

And did veterinarians not want to be VD (Veterinary Doctors, or venereal disease), so they chose DVM?

Or should we just switch to DM? I want a consensus!

I know, I know, I understand what you're saying completely. It's like if one goose is a goose and two goose are geese, then why is one moose a moose and two moose not meese?

 

[Taus]

it appears Taus has his flame war. So gratifying right before a test

always quality entertainment here...

 

[anon-y-mouse]

The answer to this question is simple. Residencies. DO's are at a major statistical disadvantage to getting competitive residencies with their degree. I was also reading Iserson's (*amazing*) guide to getting a residency, and he talked about how there is some underhanded politics involving licensing, DO and MD boards in various states... I don't remember the exact discussion, but the gist was that DO's who train with allopathic residencies can have a hard time getting licensed.

Also, when was the last time you heard of a DO general surgeon? Never? That's because there are almost no DO surgeons... there is still huge bias against DO in the surgery field.

 

[Telemachus]

Also, when was the last time you heard of a DO general surgeon? Never? That's because there are almost no DO surgeons... there is still huge bias against DO in the surgery field.

To be fair, I know one.

 

[Taus]

to be fair....yeah I guess those 51 spots that PCOM alone has for surgical residencies (ortho/plastic/general/vascular/etc) don't produce any surgeons.......

All kidding aside, you have to realize that only around 5 out of every 100 Doctors are DO's, so it is a valid statement to say that you don't see many....not derogatory at all....its just how it is....

 

[silas2642]

to be fair....yeah I guess those 51 spots that PCOM alone has for surgical residencies (ortho/plastic/general/vascular/etc) don't produce any surgeons.......

All kidding aside, you have to realize that only around 5 out of every 100 Doctors are DO's, so it is a valid statement to say that you don't see many....not derogatory at all....its just how it is....

Some of the best docs I know are DOs... I wouldn't mind being a DO. The only reason I didn't apply to osteopathic schools is because I have no money and didn't want to have to fill out another fricking primary.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

The answer to this question is simple. Residencies. DO's are at a major statistical disadvantage to getting competitive residencies with their degree. I was also reading Iserson's (*amazing*) guide to getting a residency, and he talked about how there is some underhanded politics involving licensing, DO and MD boards in various states... I don't remember the exact discussion, but the gist was that DO's who train with allopathic residencies can have a hard time getting licensed.

Also, when was the last time you heard of a DO general surgeon? Never? That's because there are almost no DO surgeons... there is still huge bias against DO in the surgery field.

the one do in my brother's practice is a general surgeon. look at the match list for the osteopathic schools, and you'll see what do's do indeed match in general surgery. in fact, there are plenty of osteopathic general surgery residencies along with osteopathic surgical specialties residencies.

also, the licensing issue only affects five states who have lame osteopathic boards that require do's to do a traditional rotating internship to be licensed. what they means is that you have to officially do a aoa approved first year internship or you have to get approval from the aoa for your allopathic internship year. i've heard this is harder to do, but again, this only matters in five states, and not five cool states. i believe the states are oklahoma, michigan, pennsylvania, florida and west virginia or something like that. lots of do's don't do the traditional rotating internship and just don't practice in those states.

if you want to practice in one of those states and do an allopathic residency, it's always possible to do a dually approved internship year. i agree, though, that it sounds like a drag if you really want to be in one of those states. oddy enough, those five states all have osteopathic schools and are very do friendly.

i would agree that if you're dead set on doing a super competitive residency or get really hung up on prestige issues, then you'd probably be happier with an md.

 

[chaeymaey]

I went to my cousin's allopathic residency graduation and the only DO graduating there was a surgical resident.

 

[exmike]

I'm not sure if there are any REAL differences exept by the elitism which is part of both MD (who think they are better trained out of tradition) and DO (who think they are more holistic) but here we go:

1. The average GPA and MCAT scores for osteopathic matriculants in 2002 were 3.4 and 25, respectively, as compared to 3.45 and 30 at allopathic schools.


Disclaimer all this info is from www.princetonreview.com

Actually Allo matric is more like 3.62 and 30

 

[gtleeee]

The answer to this question is simple. Residencies. DO's are at a major statistical disadvantage to getting competitive residencies with their degree. I was also reading Iserson's (*amazing*) guide to getting a residency, and he talked about how there is some underhanded politics involving licensing, DO and MD boards in various states... I don't remember the exact discussion, but the gist was that DO's who train with allopathic residencies can have a hard time getting licensed.

Also, when was the last time you heard of a DO general surgeon? Never? That's because there are almost no DO surgeons... there is still huge bias against DO in the surgery field.

More and more silliness. The reference to "DOs who train with allopathic residencies can have a hard time getting licensed." This concerns D.O. graduates who have done their allopathic training without the pre-requisite year of internship mandated by the AOA. This is a stumbling block by the AOA. Certainly not some insidious plot "underhanded" against D.O.s. And as for the remark about D.O. surgeons. I have known countless D.O. general surgeons. It never hurts to research something before you let your fingers hit the keyboard.

 

[Pharos]

Actually MD is an abbreviation for the Latin for doctor of medicine.

Thanks...I had said "European" ancestry in my previous post because I wasn't certain of the exacts. What you are saying makes sense. I'm curious - does anyone know what it was(is) in latin?

 

[Pharos]

The answer to this question is simple. Residencies. DO's are at a major statistical disadvantage to getting competitive residencies with their degree. I was also reading Iserson's (*amazing*) guide to getting a residency, and he talked about how there is some underhanded politics involving licensing, DO and MD boards in various states... I don't remember the exact discussion, but the gist was that DO's who train with allopathic residencies can have a hard time getting licensed.

Also, when was the last time you heard of a DO general surgeon? Never? That's because there are almost no DO surgeons... there is still huge bias against DO in the surgery field.

I'm not sure where your last comment came from, but FYI....This simple Yahoo search took me about 3 minutes and I could have kept going but didn't want to waste the time on it:

http://www.ows.com/

http://www.tempestlukeshospital.com/second/physicians.asp

http://www.alexclinic.com/general.cfm

http://www.dchosp.org/daviess.nsf/View/General&VascularSurgery

 

[nvshelat]

But the analogy doesn't work as well bc the arena league doesn't have
(1) equal attendance to the NFL; DOs and MDs probably get the same pt. volume, since insurance covers both anyway
(2) equal pay to NFL players; DOs and MDs make the same salary.

Inherent in the analogy is that the NFL players are better, which is probably true in comparison to the arena league. So then you're applying that to MDs and DOs - the problem is, there isn't really any impirical evidence that MDs are better than DOs. For instance, I can look at a running back in the arena league and say, well he had a 1300 yds rushing, but adjusted for the smaller field and easier defense, he's like a 1000 yd rusher, so he's pretty decent.

But no one has done a study yet to show that MD surgeons or PCPs are any better/worse than DO surgeons or PCPs. Using their undergrad GPA and MCAT score isn't too useful because it doesn't tell us about their quality as a physician. Yes, it tells us who performed better in school, but that of course doesn't translate into who is a better doctor. That would be like saying since Ron Dayne had so many yards rushing in high school, he'll be better than Barry Sanders, who had less yards rushing in high school. To see how they can compete in the NFL, and predict how they will do, you should look at their "residency" period or college performance - thus, we can use their performance in the first two years of the NFL to predict how they will perform; likewise, It would be more appropriate to forsee the quality of DOs vs. MDs by compare board scores, mortality rates, early in their practicing careers.

All of this effort just to procrastinate... ehh, well, its better than procrastinating on facebook...

 

[samdwi]

Also, when was the last time you heard of a DO general surgeon? Never? That's because there are almost no DO surgeons... there is still huge bias against DO in the surgery field.[/QUOTE]

There are plenty of DO surgeons, and a lot of DO students know many. They're difficult to find because many times you wouldn't know a DO from an MD in the hospital. ALso, many, if not most DO surgeons would be in community hospitals rather than academic ones, so MD students and DO studenst may not cross paths with them as often. That said, I would find it hard to argue that there is still a bias against DOs in surgery - but that generation is retiring over the next 15 years, so things are bound to get better.

 

[Law2Doc]

That said, I would find it hard to argue that there is still a bias against DOs in surgery - but that generation is retiring over the next 15 years, so things are bound to get better.

Not sure old doc retirement will fix the specialty biases. With allo med schools increasing their enrollment slightly over the next few years, unless the number of residencies are correspondingly increased I would think competition will get tougher in all areas. From numbers I have seen, there are about 24,000 residency positions, and currently around 16,000 allopathic grads and 17,000 non-allo residency seekers (DOs and IMGs).

 

[banana k]

fix the problem:

if DO and MD schools turn out equally qualified graduates, you find examples of either degree in any specialty, and the only real differences are elitism and different application forms...

why not merge the degrees? (change the degree back to the world standard of MBBS or MChb or whatever.) put them on one app form and choose based on school (esp since plenty of md schools i'm sure have a great primary care component, right?)

...answer: we can't merge them cos some ivy-trained, overpriveleged wanker wants to keep is old-boys network. OH YEAH, i forgot!

 

[Law2Doc]

fix the problem:

if DO and MD schools turn out equally qualified graduates, you find examples of either degree in any specialty, and the only real differences are elitism and different application forms...

why not merge the degrees? (change the degree back to the world standard of MBBS or MChb or whatever.) put them on one app form and choose based on school (esp since plenty of md schools i'm sure have a great primary care component, right?)

...answer: we can't merge them cos some ivy-trained, overpriveleged wanker wants to keep is old-boys network. OH YEAH, i forgot!

I'm not so sure it's the old boys network on the MD side that is the bigger hurdle to such a merger (although that certainly exists too), though I could be wrong. The bigwhigs running the DO world don't want a merger because that puts some of them in a bad place in terms of rankings/stats, and means they would then have to let allo types apply to their residencies. It would also perhaps put additional restrictions on accreditation of DO med schools that they don't currently have, create a redundancy in organizations etc. I think I read on here that the DO organizations have been a bigger opponent to a combined match than the MD types. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[beastmaster]

fix the problem:

if DO and MD schools turn out equally qualified graduates, you find examples of either degree in any specialty, and the only real differences are elitism and different application forms...

why not merge the degrees?

Because we live in a free country, where 2 or more enterprises that provide similar services are allowed to co-exist, cooperate, and compete in a marketplace of ideas.

I believe you are thinking of the former Soviet Union and North Korea, where your fix has been widely applied to produce the two ugliest places on Earth. They merged everything into one large government and things turned out just fine and dandy. But keep applying your fourth grade logic to real life situations, it will take you far.

 

[theunderdog]

Actually Allo matric is more like 3.62 and 30

well, according to the new MSAR, allo matric is 3.62 and 31 (10P,10V,11B)