Interview stories: 2006-2007

[RuNnR]

---

Members do not see this ad.

You interview with program directors. Two interviews with tours of 3 places: VA (super nice!!!), TIRR, and QM county hospital. Great and laid back. Be ready for the session where YOU take the floor and ask all the questions. You're gonna get it here.

sorry if some info is repeated

GENERAL
This program needs to just be called Baylor because residents are ranked the same, get the same training & lectures, same vacation, same rotations, one call schedule...... The only differences are your badge name, your benefits, your parking, and what your diploma says you graduated from. And Baylor is the one with "the name"..........

ONLY taking 10 this year. Some peeps decided to get pregnant so in order for everyone to graduate on time, they have to cut back.

Program is huge. 9 hospital rotation sites (42 total) with about 42 total residents BUT the attending:resident ratio is 2:1, 1:1, or 1:2. So you get individual attention. 17 months inpatient (11 in pgy2 year and 6 mons @ TIRR during pgy3)

Mutiple sites allows maximal PM&R site exposure: private, public, SNFs, free standing rehab TIRR....and also exposure to it all in rehab.
Didactics are 3 hours on Fridays 7:30 to 10:30 AM. It's protected but you still get the occasional page (s). Guess it depends on ya nurse but they all raved about the nursing and ax staff.

pgy2 - 11 mon inpt & 1 mon outpt
pgy3 - 6 mon inpt @ TIRR, 2 mon EMGs, and outpt stuff
pgy4 - no call and all outpt, consutls, EMGs 2 - 4 months

You dictate H&Ps and d/c's for all places but some want consults also

On call is about 2 - 3x/month mostly. Home call PGY2 year. Then take inhouse call at TIRR for 6 months in PGY3 but only 4 -5x/month. Can be uploaded during holidays so you could be oncall q4 for 2 weeks but then have last 2 weeks of no call. always depends on vacation and such. HOme call is in 2 blocks. One block covers VA and St. Lukes (1 mile within each other) and 2nd block covers Hermann, Methodist, and one of the County hospitals. so you are on call for one of those 2. i am sure it alternates but didn't ask. You are oncall from Mon - thurs OR Friday thru sunday. 12 - 14x pgy2 and 2 -4x pgy3, and none pgy4.

There's an oncall cellphone you get so you don't have to use your minutes

360 evals

electives to be done at baylor b/c the rational is "we are the largest med center in the world and everything is offered here." uh, ok. I never agree with this rational.....

Great supplemental workshops (all on saturdays and on campus) --> sports & MSK injury, Spine and peripheral joint injxn, electrophys, and spasticity

Courses --> Orthosis, IV spine, Impairment Rating, board review

Need extra cash? yes, you can moonlight. you get paid for staffing high school football games ($100 or $150 per game) and for rounding at certain hospitals on weekends ($250/weekend).

Fellowships abound: TBI, SCI, MSK/SM, Pain and they just added a cancer rehab fellowship, which one of their own matched in. Done at MD Anderson.

Grads get what they want and go everywhere. 1 chief doing pain, 1 doing TBI, and 1 got Sports/spine at RIC for next year. so do well. This program is competitive but you are competitive when you get out......

Baylor has a large alumni network, which helps. But what I really liked about this program is that they make it very clear that "# 1 rehab hospital does not mean # 1 residency." and talked about weaknesses they are working on, which leads me to............

WEAKNESSES IMPROVING UPON

1. yes, you know you've all heard it. "baylor is weak on outpt/MSK/SM." Well, they now offer outpt experience EVERY PG year so it's just 11 inpt and 1outpt. AND they hired 2 MSK IV pain PM&R docs last oct 2005. With growth in pt base, there should be a concomitant increase in the educational experience in MSK medicine. So, they heard the call peeps. Still, if you want a program that primarily emphasizes MSK medicine, you will not be happy at Baylor/UT.

2. EMGs.......ok so since ACGME requires 200 EMGs, they have to cut back on residents taken. The reason why the resident # fluctuates is b/c they have been taking transfers.........always marriage related. (signif.other is transferring to Baylor for whatever reason so had to let so-and-so in) But people have transfered out for hte same reason (only 1 did this). Well, due to all this flux, they are in a bit of a jam with getting #s of EMGs for their seniors/juniors now. however, they are addressing this 3 ways: not taking any more transfers, only taking 10 this year, and meeting 200 by observing as well as doing (so you get 2 residents in a room.) None of the residents I talked to mentioned anyone being upset or put out. but again, i didnt talk to everyone.

other things you may not like.....

They don't give out free PDA's anymore! The parking situation is confusing and I'm not discussing it here but to fix and pay for the problem, they got rid of free PDAs to solve the parking problem................

Okay, so there's 40 residents, but really, you have 1:1 with the attending. you get your one on one. you get individual attention training. the class is large enough so if you hate Joe Shmoe and his buddies, you can hook up with someone else. So, it gives you flexibility to be friends with a ton of people or just pick 3 you really like. You can make it your own really.

Houston: Oh my gosh, it gets hot and humid in the summer. AND houston floods. so make sure you live on floors 2 and above and get yourself some flood insurance. It will flood a few times if you come here.....

Extra Info

Francisco, Tan, Dejoya or one of the other PDs (there's like 4) meets with you 2x/year individually and then 2x/year as a group. Very very resident friendly and are advocates. as you see the changes they've made, as well as the ones below.....

You do 6 months at TIRR but do 2 month rotations of TBI, SCI, and then general rehab. They have just added a resident to cover outpatient clinic at TIRR. You used to have to do it all - inpt and outpt clinic. But it was such a burden they have capped your patients and put a resident in outpt clinic. General day at TIRR is get in @ 7:30 to round on your pts, go to clinic at 9, go to afternoon conference, admit in afternoon, can leave from 5 to 6 to 7pm. depends on your efficiency and workload. ALSO, there used to be 24 max patients YOU carried. Yeah, that's a lot and I was surprised. But the cap is now 22. I honestly still think that's too many. I did SCI at RIC and at 17 I was like, "NO MORE!!!" So, it's a heavy load in MY opinion. And one of the residents agreed with me so.......

At the VA they have kinesiology therapy (KT) as well as your basics. I thought that was cool......

Residents are from all over the USA. They have 4 chiefs but are decreasing to 3. 2 are administrative and 1 is academic. They all raved about faculty being interested, available, and stable. Relations great with attendings and with residents. no major drama.

The benefits, salary, and parking are all different for UT and Baylor and they change so just know it all evens out. Parking changes EVERY year so don't even try to ask. It's subsidized and one program gets screwed somewhere.

Houston: TRAFFIC sucks bad......but youcan live close to baylor in condoland (yeah, i thought that was a joke but for real though). Midtown is up and coming and can live there too. it's close but the med center is confusing and the traffic around there isn't the best but it aint' the bumper to bumper stopped up highway.

There is a lot in a small area around the TMC. Cheap affordable housing to buy or rent. 50% Residents bought and others rent. Starbucks on campus to get your jolt. Very diverse city and residency. You can bike to work if you live close. Rice university and shopping village is near by with a nice gravel running path. pretty safe area. Rice village has a shopping, bars, sushi, ect. Really true that there is a lot in a small area.

International bush airport. forgot to check flight prices but I talked to Dr Francisco about it and there is a direct flight to beijing! awesome.

comments, opinions, changes, additions!!!!

 

[Finally M3]

I thought I'd chime in on one you all haven't covered yet... thanks for all of the previous posts. I would have contributed, but you're all too quick for me!


Call: Home Call - I actually don't remember the exact frequency 😕, but it's not weekly call like some home call programs. (Maybe someone can help me out with the details) Like most places, call is variable depending on the patients, your comfort level, and the person placing the call... knowing that there are those with black clouds hovering, some calls can be rough, but many have said that they've had "call-free" call nights. As with most other programs, call becomes less frequent as you make your way through the years.

Call: Approx. 40 (includes about 8 weekends, either Fri&Sunday or Saturday, rounding with another resident both days) PGY2 year, 20 PGY3 year, 0 PGY4 year. Very true regarding frequency and importance of calls, although I seem to be developing a white cloud.

 

[RuNnR]

GENERAL

Dinner the night before. I couldn't go b/c of flight. But everyone said it was a great way to meet residents and was very laid back. I meet 4 residents on interview day (pgy1, 2 pgy2s, and 1pgy4).

5 interviews - one with 2 residents and others with PD, chair, and 2 faculty
7 interviewees but this was the least they had at once. Usually it's around 10 - 12 (3 didn't show up/cancelled our day)

Interviews--> some laid back and get to know you. Dr Wang just likes to talk. He's fun! I had some harder questions though like, "What would you bring to this program that is unique?" Be ready to sell yourself without being arrogant.

Take 3 (1 advanced and 2 cat) and interviewing less than 40 (220 apps)
Centralized program at UCDavis (beautiful campus!!!) & not much driving at all

Rotate mostly at UCDavis main hospital, VA (not much though so a very small component used for specific purposes like amputee, spine IV, and acupuncture), Shriners (which in oncampus), Kaiser Vallejo Rehab, and a few smaller outpt clinics. They just added 1 month rotation at Kaiser. You do TBI, carry about 7 - 11 patients, and get experience in the Kaiser system. It's 1 hour away and there is no housing. UCD gives you $50/day for gas so some have rented a hotel room for a month, stayed with friends or family. This is the first year they have done it so the kinks need to be worked out and they may increase it to 2 months in the future...

pgy1 --> 5 mon medicine and 1 month each of burn surgery, gen surgery at the VA (supposed to be mostly vascular), nuerology, EM, ortho spine surgery, and inpt PM&R. Not much down time.

pgy2 depends on if you did pgy1 here.
cat pgy2 --> 1 month of ortho hand, 6 mon outpt, 3 inpt, 1 mon Kaiser
advanced pgy2 --> 6 mon outpt, 4 mon inpt, 1 mon Kaiser

pgy3--> 4 mon inpt, 1 mon Pain, 4 mon Shriner's, 3 mon EMGs, clinics, VA

pgy4--> 2 x 2 mon consults at UCDavis, 4 mon of being chief outpt clinic resident whre do supervise trainees but also do administrative work, and last 4 mon outpt with cardiac rehab in there somewhere

Call is home call except at Shriner's you do 1x/week b/c you rotate with the ortho and nuero residents and then 1 Saturday/month. Shriner's is new in Sac by a few years. Used to be in San Fran but due to financial reasons had to move. Oakland and Sac bidded for it. Obviously Sac won...

Special experiences: Pediatrics is strong! Shriners has a burn institute, ortho service, and SCI, ect all at one place. UCDavis also has a nueromuscular disease clinic sponsored by muscular dystrophy association, a post-polio clinic, MSK outpt clinics in sports, rheum, occupational medicine, & fracture are strong, and 6 mon of EMGs with 2x/month conf. with case studies. so basically the rumors about this program are correct about it being a strong outpt, EMG, and peds program. If you H-A-T-E peds, go somewhere you get only 1 month of it. not here.

You don't get any time dedicated to PT, OT, ST, ect. You just go hang out after work. You'll have time I'm told.

P&O --> in didactics and go to lab but most experience is at VA and Shriner's. forgot to ask about how this training is....will do it today. IM me if you wanna know.

Teaching experience --> you do bedside teaching, clinic supervision, and provide didactics to medical students who rotate. It's a popular rotation so you come here, you teach.

360 evals
Research is required here.
pgy1 has 4 weeks of vacation to be taken in one block
pgy2-4 --> 3weeks vaca,12 days/year of sick leave accrued yr 2 yr, and 3 weeks of educational leave is allowed.
get all your benefits, no premiums, except disablity "is available".

It's so funny to me that being physiatrist's we don't just get disability benefits. I mean, WTF?

What is different about Davis?

1. Didactics & outpatient rotations. This is interesting. so you get your general 3 hr sessions on Tuesdays 7:30 to 10:30am with each topic repeated in 18 mon cycle. But this program does not take a block approach to learning. They don't focus on just one thing at a time. YOu see things at various time and get continuous exposure. so, what does that mean? This:

one outpatient rotation week
PGY2
Monday Tuesday Wed Thurs Friday
AM - amputee clinic AM - didactics AM -EMG AM - peds AM- polio
PM - gen peds PM - general PM - SCI PM - NMD PM - EMG

pgy 3s and 4s have more spine and sports and emgs and less peds

The philosophy is this: When you are in practice, you will see topics in unorganized fashion so we want to mimic a practice and prepare you for life.

So to some this may be schizo but it makes sense to me. You learn like this while your whole 3rd year of clinical medicine. So, it's really the same thing. But most programs/residencies do block scheduling.

2. Most residents go into Kaiser system in private practice after leaving. Many came here back from east or midwest to be close to family but get great outpt training. so they do that. One did a peds fellowship here in california.

Why don't mroe do MSK fellowships? Well, the theory is that you get such great MSK training here (and htey do) that you don't need a fellowship. I cannot argue either way. So, I'd need someone who graduated from there who knows someone with did a fellowship to compare......anybody know anybody??

3. 13 month inpt and the other 23 for outpt, emg's, ect. OKay, so most programs have 15 - 18 inpt months. And I asked why the split or why they set the program that way. The theory/belief is that "a resident's learning curve plateau's after 13 months of inpatient so we cap at 13." I mean I don't know this and have no data to support it AND this is proly resident dependant AND I didn't push it. so of course I said, "oh, okay!"

I emailed Dr Gittler and asked her how/why she set up schwab and what she thinks. I have emailed some others about this without telling them who said what but haven't heard word yet. She wrote me this

"We have 16 mos of inpatient medicine; 2 1/2 of those are on the subacute unit in anticipation of the effect the 75% rule will have on medicare patients. During all inpatient rotations, you have a 1/2 day of clinic per week, so technically, it's about 14 1/2 mos of inpatient medicine. I DO NOT believe the learning curve plateaus; i believe it steepens with experience. The 4 mos of EMG count neither as inpatient nor outpatient, but they are separate from other rotations. The leaves about 17 1/2 mos that are outpatient/ consults/ electives etc. Your take home message though, should be to go where you will be happy. All programs have to teach the same stuff no matter what!
regards"
mg

I agree with her but again, I'm just a lil m4 on the outside with no research on learning curves. However, I know how to draw them!! =)

But i digress, back to UCDavis.

So here are some extra Qs I asked:

No changes will be made in program in upcoming years except Vallejo maybe adding another month experience. They have a stable faculty and program and have tweaked the program to their liking and are done with that part of things.

11 PMR faculty, so 1:1, financially stable, 4 MSK/EMG guys, ect.

Yeah it's a small program but chill and laid back and everyone gets along. they were SO nice and laid back. all here for family and friends and Cali is home. ALL residents are happy.

Davis gets most major trauma in northern cali

Program director and chair are awesome! very very resident friendly.

Ya get your EMGs of course, SAE 1x/year, and orals practice 1x/year

no one has left

Yes vent pts

Lots of escapes from work --> ski @ tahoe about 1 hour away, hike mountains, kayak, one guy kiteboards!, one VA attending does ultrarunning (ultra knee killer running), very outdoorsy. Bay Area is like 90 minutes. Reno the same. lots to choose from and time to do it (NOT pgy1 year)

Residents believe the faculty is excellent in all regards. All are eager to teach/educate and available when you need help.

Patient loads:
UCD med center --> 5 - 12 inpts
Kaiser (only TBI) --> 7 - 11 inpts
Peds--> cannot find that info. i'll update this when i get it.

Ancillary staff and nurses are super. never had to start IV. IF floor nurses can't do something, the call the "action nurse." haha. i thought that was funny.

YOu have your nights, holidays and weekends free. they have a lot of holidays.

Parking is $30/month but you get 2 mon free if you have it deducted from your paycheck.

farthest drive is 20 - 25 min for outpt clinic (minus vallejo)

So, I really liked this program and the people. It's for people who either:
want outpt for sure
have a family to take care of also or other interests to pursue as well
want to come back to california
or are seriously considering peds

On sacramento:
Outdoorsy place
plenty of restaurants, bars, clubs in downtown/midtown near capitol
Arnold lives in Hyatt near capital for so many months so you can get in on some political life if you so choose. or just get motivated to workout a ton.
nice affordable housing some have bought (but are married!) and most rent
gReat family town also b/c safe.
um.....not sure about singles scene but you have UCDavis med school and other residencies, and colleges like cali state. So there HAS to be stuff to do. I was only there a day and was beat. I am so tired of interviewing. I am having trouble keeping up working out and running! My human-ness is getting to me! Help! Me want schedule!

ok, so that's it.
OH, Sac has an international airport(this surprised me). not srue why. it's a capital city and all. it reminds me of lincoln, nebraska the way it's set up. The streets are A, B, C, and 1, 2, 3, ect. same in lincoln. easy to get around. easy to learn.

anyone gonna report on ohio state? i go there jan 30.

 

[RuNnR]

Changes in program for next few years will be

1. adding faculty so able to add more EMG experience in 3rd year. Although no set EMG rotations until 4th year, you do some on MSK rotations and observe. And you also get the EMG didactic is a 2 month module twice during your time here.

2. more medical student teaching. Dr Mayer is big into this and apparently on his service you'll have a med student.

3. will start doing mock orals. what they do now is informal and just on wards/in clinics. But will start a formal, consistent oral pretty soon.

 

[nicko18]

please delete

 

[nicko18]

edit - wrong board

 

[RuNnR]

Just an extra on baylor residents I forgot to mention until talking to 3 other people who also interviewed at Baylor. Now before I begin, all of hte attendings and PDs, the chairs were AWESOME and really nice. Can sit down and talk and relax so these are only thoughts/comments about residents.

The whole day we met 4 residents and saw 2 others. 3 who were involved in the tours and 3 who came by to eat lunch. They were all pgy3 and 4s. SO, how come we only really met 4/40ish residents, no pgy2s - just peeps who will NOT be there? The 3 who came to lunch - 2 sat down and chatted which was nice. But one ran in - "ANy questions?" ok good. bye. (um, bye? you just got here.....)

Even at the nighty social, no one showed up. Just the same tour residents. Am I missing something? Why are the residents not promoting a program? I know Baylor has a great reputation and all but that can also be ruined by residents who don't give a crap about who comes. You have a build and maintain a great program by recruiting great people. Not turning them sour.

Also of note: some interviewees were taken to grand rounds and then at some point NOT offered rides back to baylor/TIRR. Apparently no one talked to them after/before Rounds and at afterwards 4 girls just went to their cars and left them without offering a ride to the interviewees. Hum.............

Now I know this could be due to: 1) you are in hurry to get to work, 2) cockiness, 3) shyness, 4) having no idea that interviewees actually take in the little things you do, 5) being on your period so you hate the world, 6) let's see......oh, you are in a rush to a funeral or to the ER (wait, we don't work in the ER), 7) okay rush to a family member in the ER.

Point is: Baylor is on the bottom of some people's list b/c of resident's not showing any care about interviewees at all. Whether it be by not showing up to anything or by showing up and turning their heads the other way.

Now I do have to say that everyone I met was super nice and happy. And I didn't get any doors closed in my face. But i also have to say that i only met pgy3s/4s. so yeah, i'd be happy to if i were in there spot - almost done.....

I was told that resident's picked hot summers over brutal winters or they put RIC as 1 and baylor 2 and loved both. So could someone report here on the feel of RIC ?

comments/ concerns/ agree/not!! add it!

 

[TUCOMSam]

Just an extra on baylor residents I forgot to mention until talking to 3 other people who also interviewed at Baylor. Now before I begin, all of hte attendings and PDs, the chairs were AWESOME and really nice. Can sit down and talk and relax so these are only thoughts/comments about residents.

The whole day we met 4 residents and saw 2 others. 3 who were involved in the tours and 3 who came by to eat lunch. They were all pgy3 and 4s. SO, how come we only really met 4/40ish residents, no pgy2s - just peeps who will NOT be there? The 3 who came to lunch - 2 sat down and chatted which was nice. But one ran in - "ANy questions?" ok good. bye. (um, bye? you just got here.....)

Even at the nighty social, no one showed up. Just the same tour residents. Am I missing something? Why are the residents not promoting a program? I know Baylor has a great reputation and all but that can also be ruined by residents who don't give a crap about who comes. You have a build and maintain a great program by recruiting great people. Not turning them sour.

Also of note: some interviewees were taken to grand rounds and then at some point NOT offered rides back to baylor/TIRR. Apparently no one talked to them after/before Rounds and at afterwards 4 girls just went to their cars and left them without offering a ride to the interviewees. Hum.............

Now I know this could be due to: 1) you are in hurry to get to work, 2) cockiness, 3) shyness, 4) having no idea that interviewees actually take in the little things you do, 5) being on your period so you hate the world, 6) let's see......oh, you are in a rush to a funeral or to the ER (wait, we don't work in the ER), 7) okay rush to a family member in the ER.

Point is: Baylor is on the bottom of some people's list b/c of resident's not showing any care about interviewees at all. Whether it be by not showing up to anything or by showing up and turning their heads the other way.

Now I do have to say that everyone I met was super nice and happy. And I didn't get any doors closed in my face. But i also have to say that i only met pgy3s/4s. so yeah, i'd be happy to if i were in there spot - almost done.....

I was told that resident's picked hot summers over brutal winters or they put RIC as 1 and baylor 2 and loved both. So could someone report here on the feel of RIC ?

comments/ concerns/ agree/not!! add it!

I'm sorry to hear your experience was like that at Baylor. I truly mean that. Not sure what has changed since early Dec. when I interviewed. Basically everything you mentioned above was the opposite when I was there. Lots of residents to speak with including PGY2's (even one PGY2 gave us the tour). TONS of residents at the social/beer fest, which was really fun actually! Very cognizant of people who needed rides from one end of the campus to the other after lunch. SO, your question is very valid as to why it was like that when you were there. Did they just get done with SAE's? Maybe they're exhausted? Maybe Houston's cold? I don't know, but I can assure you that they're not always like that, for what it's worth. 😉

 

[Gauss]

You must remember that big programs which interview loads of apps for multiple months aren't going to be able to have their residents available for every interview day. Additionally, they can't make every social. However, being short with interviewees and leaving them w/o rides is inexcusable.

 

[Gauss]

"During all inpatient rotations, you have a 1/2 day of clinic per week, so technically, it's about 14 1/2 mos of inpatient medicine. "

Very nice reviews Runnr.
I feel I must point out this quote though. Based on my experiences, if you have inpatients they are your #1 responsibility. Therefore, clinic time is not protected - if your inpatients have any issues, you must attend to them. Whether that be: admissions, discharges, medical or social issues, meetings/conferences/family, etc. If you are a clinic oriented person with future outpt practice goals, then this may bother you. If not, then this can be your golden ticket out of clinic.

 

[zwasfeli]

Very nice reviews Runnr.
I feel I must point out this quote though. Based on my experiences, if you have inpatients they are your #1 responsibility. Therefore, clinic time is not protected - if your inpatients have any issues, you must attend to them. Whether that be: admissions, discharges, medical or social issues, meetings/conferences/family, etc. If you are a clinic oriented person with future outpt practice goals, then this may bother you. If not, then this can be your golden ticket out of clinic.

I have never been allowed to not go to clinic because of inpatient issues. As a matter of fact I MUST sign out to someone else and forward my pager because if I don't go to clinic no-one else will see my clinic patients who are scheduled and waiting and I will get a beat down from the administration. Obviously this is varible in nature.

 

[RuNnR]

Started at 8am with the PD - Dr. Clinchot going over the basics. I then had 3 interviews - 1 CR and 2 faculty (Peace and Johnson). Please read fozzy's earlier assessement (i agree). Dr. Clinchot gave each 1 of us a tour of Dodd Rehab hospital (stand alone rehab facility close to the main hospital with underground walkways to connec it)

Take 6 & interviewing 30. They pretty much rank everyone (unless you bomb the interview I'm sure) so if you get an interview, you're very competitive.
4 interviewed on my day.....
2 cat positions --> which are both hard medicine prelim years at OSU. You get 1 mon of gen med and 5 of subspecialty medicine. so critique I heard here was that it's too much subspecialty and not enough general. I'd get more but I'll do that if I match in the cat program so I won't put it here. But also have 1 mon each of MICU, ER, Neuro, VA outpt clinic and one elective.

Read fozzy's review for didactics (Grand rounds, ect). It's 100% protected. why? 100% attendance is mandatory so you'll be there (and get let go for it).
360 evals and you also get to eval a resident you worked with (dept randomly picks one for ya).
Research WILL be required next year or the year after. It's not bad! 1 case study pgy2 and 3 years. and pgy4 year ya do a real study.
Required journal club 1x/month --> can be a a faculty's house, resturant, or just at work
Sports med exposure --> high school and columbus activities
EMGs --> you are gonna 'em and then some. #s range from 700 - 2200! (yeah) But Chinchot also said you don't have to if you don't want that many.
There are opportunities on every rotation to do them
IV experience --> 1 day/wk at riverside, 1x/2wks at Dodd, and can do elective
2 electives --> 1 has to be done at OSU and the other ANYwhere (international included)

You get exposure to everything here. If you hate EMGs, I'd say you'd get over exposed here. but you learn it from the best (johnson!)
Rotations are 2 months!
On top of your basics ( SCI, TBI, gen, stroke, geriatrics, peds), OSU is the Burn Center in Ohio so you'll see burn rehab (not a ton but it's not big anywhere)
Multiple sites in a small area (columbus) --> you will work at Riverside (high end, insured clients), OSU/dodd (mixture), and Grant (poverty, indigent), VA is outpt clinic only, OSU for consults, and finally a 12 bed community hospital in Springfield (longest commute can be up to 45 min). You get reimbursed for the drive. Sites are NOT far and traffic is NOT bad. You can bike to work or even walk to some places depending on where you live. pretty sweet.

You also learn about systems management and private practice stuff.
All services are busy. YOu come in, you work hard (and are expected nothing less than your best), but it seemed that most days overall are 7:30/8 to 5/5:30

About 14 month inpt
here is a sample schedule:
pgy2
stroke/neuro rehab inpt at Dodd
Riverside Consults (10 min away)
TBI at Dodd
Grant hospital Consults (10 min away)
Ortho inpt at Dodd
Peds inpt at Children's (10 min away)

pgy3
Dodd outpt & EMGs
TBI inpt @ Dodd
SCI @ Dodd
Consults @ OSU
Senior Inpt rehab
Peds Outpt @ children's

pgy4
grant hos. outpt & EMG
Riverside Outpt & EMG
VA outpt clinic & EMG
elective
Dodd outpt and EMG
Springfeild comm. hos. inpt/consults

**SCI and TBI at Dodd are on same floor. Range of patients is about 6 - 10 b/c there are 60 beds and 6 residents there. however, if one service is over/under full than you can have less or more pts but not more than 12. (very attractive and manageable compared to the 22 @ TIRR you have! yikes!)

**NO vent pts on SCI but you have them on peds inpt. (i have to double check on this). also there is a lift that transfers SCI patients in/out of bed BUT also into/out of bath/bathroom! They will put one in every room since it has been shown to decrease healthcare costs. (awesome.)

**consults at OSU are super busy. You get a lot of peeps tryin' to dump on ya, but you have to stand your ground.

**patient population is diverse b/c you get most of ohio except cleveland area, which isn't that big.

Call is all home call. 1x/wk and 1 weekend/month. NO call in springfeild. While on peds, 1 weekend/month. no call pgy4.

Da Lil thangs --> no book $ but given 1 of the most recent texts EACH year. PDAs given. There is $500 added to your paycheck for meals. It used to be given separately for meals but either no one used it or didn't use all of it. So instead of just taking it away, they add it to your check. but technically it's for oncall meals. (yes, as i said b4 it's home call). NICE nice resident work space on TBI/SCI floors. And the resident room is connected to the nurse manager's office SO you are a happy family and you get to voice your complaints/issues about nurses to her/him.

Grads --> most go into private practice, one off to RIC for peds fellowship, have done pain fellowships, most have jobs b4 graduate so OSU doesn't have any job placement help for you. only b/c never needed to. Huge alumni network and can go anywhere in states if you so wish to do so..............

100% performance on boards. they do awesome. no sweat on this part. no board review coarse but seniors make a study group so no need for it.
Anyone who failed orals waited until after a fellowship (like pain) to take it.....duh.

Met 4 residents and really only talked indepth with 2. It was bad weather that day so maybe that's why not many showed up for lunch. 4 did. but everyone was so nice and answered Qs readily and were happy with thier choice. Residents are from all over but OSU does take 1-2 OSU med students so it's not a weak Ohio showing.

OSU was either #1 or 2 on rank lists and over RIC, baylor bunch in some cases. So, again, it's what works for you individually. I think Columbus is what 'scares' people.....thaz ok. =)

All faculty are great, friendly, and open to the residents. Great environ. If you need support, you'll get it here. You will be listened to.
that being said, there will NOT be any changes in the program to come (besides the new research requirement)

Weaknesses: some said that on the SAE's they don't do as well on P&O but nationally this is a weakness. There is P&O in didactics and exposure in clinic/outpt exposure. PD mentioned he thought the amputee training could be better and needs work. Working on more research. Finally, you get exposure to cardiopulm rehab but it's not a set rotation. It's more of an observation.....But that said, NO resident has EVER done cardiopulm or P&O for elective time.

Strengths: EMGs, ready for fellowships or academic or private practice, great alumni network, great well rounded training with pioneers in the field, super nice faculty, Johnson (he ain't retiring peeps. So, don't you worry. NOt sure how old he is but his enthusiasm and energy are contagious and inspiring and for someone that happy and well, he's gonna be around. And he said "I'll die in my boots." = DEDICATED! Lots of medical student teaching (there are m1s - m4s on service for different reasons. OSU has an m4 required rotation.) But definitely a top program, no doubt.

Ok so Columbus............after lunch we drove around and saw all the hospitals (really close so remember, MINIMAL driving time) and columbus. I have never been here and I cannot really compare to any other city. But it does remind me of a Chicago suburb - cold as heck midwestern winter (but NOT chicago cold!! this is so important). REALLY safe. I feel like I could go run at night. And I am staying with a friend downtown who lives in a SA-WHEAT place (well, for me). it's 5 minutes from work, has a gym with pool, indoor park garage, bars are a walk away (i don't drink), sushi is a walk away, and starbucks is a 2 minute walk away. I know this stuff is important to me but I'll add it FYI. email me for details. BUT residents live in other areas NOT downtown. So you can live in condos or buy a condo (100,000 to 150,000s) really close by a lake so you are close to work and the small city but get a relaxing homey feel.

Columbus has a wholefoods, trader joes, and whole oats and a ton of outdoorsy stuff. So, it's easy to be healthy. Not everyone works out or has outdoory activities but whatever. You can also try new stuff like frisbee golf, crew, ect. Many people bike, rollerblade, run. there are paths to do this and a few parks.

There are concerts, movie theaters, shopping, and all of a city except a whole bunch of big buildings......It's not a glamourous place. BUT totally serves your purpose t/o residency if you aren't looking to go out clubbin' all the time. tons of bars. And this IS a big city of young professionals b/c it's cheap to live with good pay so you can save dough. a best friend of mine just moved (for a job) from the NYC and he's amazed about prices - but still misses new york.

I agree this is a place you may end up hating. I wouldn't go that far. They have an international airport so you can leave!! =)

please post CORRECTIONS, comments, feelings, thoughts, ect.....

GOOD LUCK ON THE RANK LIST!!!

 

[axm397]

Anyone who failed orals waited until after a fellowship (like pain) to take it.....duh.

the Oral boards are taken about a year after the written boards. currently, the written boards are in August and the Oral boards are in May the next year. You have to take the written first then the Oral so if one is doing a fellowship, you would have to take both exams DURING the fellowship.

 

[dc2md]

just to add a little something to RuNnR's post on OSU: just outside Dr. Pease's office there's a map of the US with push-pins showing where all the graduates of the program currently are. I haven't seen this at any other program. It really shows the network possibility when you're looking for a job in your PGY-4 year. They have graduates all over the US. Always a plus!!

 

[normalforce]

Dr. Sliwa has one in his office. Facing him in the interview, it would have been behind your head on the wall, so you probably wouldn't see it. RIC has the largest alumni network of any PMR program in the country. And, yes, it is a huge help and should be considered in your selection process.

Later,

NF

 

[RuNnR]

Moonlighting offered pgy3 and 4 years. It's workers comp cases downtown and if I remember correctly, it's $ 120/hour......writing that makes me think I heard that wrong so I'll double check. PM me if you care. Also, OSU the college is really close and I drove around and there is a ton of grass to run on and a running path around there too. I think we get free OSU tickets during the season. something like that.

ok, I think I got all the important info except on call: most people came here b/c you don't (or traditionally don't) get killed oncall. You are responsible for 60 patients at Dodd & then 10 inpt peds bed while on that Peds service.

please correct if this is wrong.

 

[dc2md]

RuNnR,
you're right on about the $120/hr moonlighting. you basically clock in, sit down at a computer terminal, and type your expert opinion on worker's comp (and maybe others) cases. your essentially reviewing charts for $120/hour...pretty sweet deal. and i think they have enough work for PGY4, PGY3, and occassionally PGY2 (i'm not certain about the PGY2 though). and i'm not sure if IMGs can moonlight at all...so it probably doesn't even apply to me. maybe i'll just see some chiropractic patients on the occassional weekend.

 

[dc2md]

Apparently it's more profitable for residents to moonlight than pay others to take their call. A typical call night goes for ~$200...more for weekends and holidays though. As an IMG who can't moonlight in Texas (I think??), I'd take those call nights.

 

[freddydpt]

Where are the LI interview experiences? Nassau, LIJ, Stony Brook

 

[uvamed07]

First of all, I haven't rotated in the department and I didn't bother interviewing there. I interviewed at many of the places RuNer interviewed and I agree with RuNer's reviews. However, let me share my knowledge of UVa. I can't comment on the interview experience, but I know friends who had to eat their lunch from the HealthSouth cafeteria which seems below the standard in my experience.

PGY-2

Pros:

Call is reportedly easy and from home
Free lunch (with the opportunity to usher the future candidates through the line)

Cons:

HealthSouth: For those of you who aren't aware, HealthSouth was involved in a very large Medicare fraud case in the mid 1990s. As the rumor goes, the residents are treated like *&%$. They don't use the same computer system as we do at UVa and they don't have the ability to work anything up because HealthSouth will not invest into basic lab equip, etc.. Therefore, their transfers are a real pain in the #@!. As a result, most everyone, especially the ED residents, have little respect for the PMR residents. The residents spend most of their day performing mindless activities to appease HealthSouth who is under closed scrutiny by Medicare. To make all of this worse, the rumor is the medical director of HealthSouth is PMR faculty which seems to be a big problem. I don't know any details, but there seems to be potential for conflicts of interest. Once again, these are the stories floating around and I haven't seen any of it first hand. However, if you are on the fence between UVa and another place, then this may help.

PGY-3

Pros

Less call and same free lunch
3 months with Dr Wilder who is well known in Sports Medicine, but I don't know if this qualifies UVa as a strong Sports Medicine program. They don't cover any of the UVa sporting events (football, basketball, etc) However, you are required to cover several Saturday races throughout the year which are mandantory.

Cons

Consults for 3 months at UVa where you aren't respected by the cosulting teams.

I don't know anything about the 4th year, but I understand it is pretty laid back and gives you plenty of time to get ready for practice or fellowships. Once again, I don't have any details or specific names to mention. I haven't heard anything bad about the faculty per se, but it seems like there is a lot of work needed. Oh yeah, if you are interested in the pain fellowship, then forget about it. A friend of mine is going into anesthesia and he tells me the department is furious with the PMR department regarding one of their past residents. Best of luck to everyone.

 

[mdvol]

Wow, a lot of statements from someone who never rotated in the department! I am positive we are just as glad as you that you didn't bother to rotate with us.

I don't really feel compelled to respond to any of these comments but if a resident applicant is out there who liked UVA and wants specific points commented on let me know.

I am a current chief so take my comments with a grain of salt, what do I know.

 

[Brooklyndo2.1]

Wow, a lot of statements from someone who never rotated in the department! I am positive we are just as glad as you that you didn't bother to rotate with us.

I don't really feel compelled to respond to any of these comments but if a resident applicant is out there who liked UVA and wants specific points commented on let me know.

I am a current chief so take my comments with a grain of salt, what do I know.

Well since you are a resident and chief, why dont you address the specific points and set the record straight? not that it matters now that rols are in. but still it would be nice to hear the "other" side.
😕

 

[uvamed07]

This wasn't meant to start a war and I respect you for standing up for the program. However, I didn't rotate at your program because my significant other, who did, advised against it. I know UVa is thought of as a large university by some, but it is small enough for problems to leak out to the medical students and other residents. I am only trying to help others with their decisions. I regret finding this site and post so late into the process. As Brooklyn stated, it really doesn't matter because the rols are in. I love Charlottesville and UVa and I hope the program can improve, but my criticism of your program is valid. Anyone who knows how to do a google search can type in HealthSouth + Medicare and get the story on the mid 90's fraudulant charges. Anyone who has been a medical student or worked in the ED at UVa can tell you the reputation of HealthSouth and the PMR residents. In regards to sporting event coverage, am I wrong? I am not aware of the residents covering the major sports at UVa. Listen, I am sure there are great things about the program, but the first year sounds like %$# and it doesn't have to be that way. There are too many great programs who don't have a private, for profit institution running the show. Once again, I am not trying to stir up trouble. I wish it wasn't true. I would have loved to stay in Charlottesville.

 

[RuNnR]

I am sorry you didn't find this site sooner also. I knew there was/is some political stuff going on. The secretary told me about different depts. fighting for space b/c space is an issue.

But one thing to note is that just because Healthsouth got slammed for fraud doesn't mean UVA was involved. You can work for or with someone and have nothing to do with the things they do. And HS is all over.

Obviously, I never was told about reputation of UVA PMR being an issue. That may have a lot to do with PMR being completely away from UVA's other specialities so they really don't know WHAT we do or work with UVA much. I did get the feeling that anything traumatic or some medical emergency couldn't be dealt with. But as I said before, it's more of an outpt program. Your inpatient knowledge and training will suffer.

And you have to be careful about some doctors bashing other depts. Some people are rude A-holes b/c it validates their life decisions and makes them feel superior. OR they are uneducated and assume they know what's up. I really think you need to find the REASON the dept is not respected IF that is true. And if it's due to education, you can work to change that. People have to be advocates and stand up for what they believe. You teach others and work with others so that they understand and respect you.

On a side note, yeah, the lunch at UVA was cheesy as hell. I mean, I spent $350 to fly there and stayed a few nights to see Char'ville. and i get a crappy cafeteria food meal for busting my balls? WHATever. I was frustrated about that. It's unprofessional.

ANd your posts DO matter b/c next year people will read these interviews and know what questions to ask. It's very important to report as close to the truth as you know it to be.

we are making life decisions. complete career moves that will change our lives forever. don't mess around with that.

Good luck in the match!!

 

[Brooklyndo2.1]

still waiting for MDVOL to respond

 

[mdvol]

I remember both RuNnr and Brooklynd2.1 at their interviews and I would hope you had the feeling we answered any and all questions posed as honestly as possible. This UVAMED07 poster seems ticked off that he feels that our dept doesn't offer what he wants but he would love to stay in Charlottesville ( can understand that as it is a great place) and actually I wasn't "standing up" for the program as much as saying that making a post without really knowing the different situations really does a disservice to this forum.

As for specific answers to UVAMED07's comments maybe I will decide to lay out my thoughts but I am not sure they are even worth responding too because they affect so little about the true experience over 4 years that it really does not help someone deciding on which residency to go to.

Interestingly I am at UVA, a chief and have no clue who UVAMED07 is, he/she could have talked to me anytime. Also, we have one UVA grad who is a current PGY2 and one who is a PGY1.

Ok, ok, I'll comment on the sports medicine part. All UVA sports teams covered my ATC's, football by UVA team physicians comprised of ortho/family/PM&R ( Dr. Mistry, yes no residents, I"m sure there are so many PM&R programs out there where the residents are covering Div I football, right?). As residents we cover most running events in community, high school football ( Monticello High ) and we spend two days per week with Dr Wilder in the training room where we see cross country, track/field, lacrosse, field hockey - i.e. ATC covers game/event, athelete injured get rx by trainers, if athelete not getting better sees physician (PM&R if one of above sports). We see so much sports/MSK it isn't even funny.

Also, the whole talk about crappy food cracks me up as I had pizza in a conference room at RIC when I interviewed and it never entered my equation on where I was going. Sound like little brats to me. However, we did have two groups who did get crappy food at our cafeteria (unfortunately) and two groups who had catered lunch - you guys got the short stick, sorry.

 

[puravida]

Some very interesting comments about the PM&R program at UVA. Before I address these, I would like to preface my statements by saying that everyone must decide what is right for them about a particular residency program, and what you will get out of it is what you put into it. I knew as a 1st year med student that I wanted to do a sports/spine or pain fellowship, and PM&R was it for me. As a fourth year med student, I interviewed at all the "top" programs (RIC, UW, Baylor, Spaulding, etc.), and as a fourth year resident I interviewed at all of the "top" tier pain and sports/spine fellowships, and matched into a very coveted ACGME PM&R pain fellowship. I tell you this as a means of lending credibility to my statements and in such, also putting my comments into perspective about the field and this program in general. Hopefully my comments will be helpful to others.

First, there is no correlation between what happened in the 90s with Health South and any part of the PM&R dept at UVA, to imply such a link is ludicrous. Regarding the inpatient program at UVA, none of us would say it is outstanding, but it is also not awful. There are certainly areas we would like to improve in, however, you will graduate from this program competent in inpatient rehabilitation and you will pass your boards. We don't tout our programs strength in inpatient rehab. We often tell interviewees that if you want to do inpatient rehab, there are better programs. This is common knowledge. Our strength is outpatient musculoskeletal (sports, spine, EMG), and there are few programs that can match ours in this area.

I agree, the Healthsouth issue is not ideal from an academic standpoint, but this is a joint venture between UVA and Healthsouth, which really has nothing to do with our department, unfortunately. UVA as an academic center, is one of the very few profitable academic institutions in the country. The bottom line is really all that they are looking at here. The reality of public and private sector will become very apparent if you decide to enter into private practice. Healthsouth is the Microsoft of rehab.

I am not sure where the comments about reputation amongst other residents in other programs at UVA stems from, but I have had excellent rapport with and have found residents from other depts to be collegial and friendly. Many are grateful for us to take "their" patients into rehab, and often, executives and VIPs from around the area will come to our rehab hospital. In addition, docs will often refer patients to us when they cannot figure out what else to do, so we will often see very complicated patients in addition to the straight forward ones. I should add, that for 3 out of the last 4 years, we have had a UVA med student match into our highly competitive residency program. I should also add, that our pgy 1 interns spend time working with our colleagues in neurology, medicine, surgery and the ED among other places, and you will be hard pressed to find someone to criticize the strength of our interns.

I think RuNnr makes a good point about docs bashing other depts, and this unfortunately in medicine is not uncommon, but is also not to be taken as the final word. Docs disagree with docs on patient management, and it runs both ways. Believe me, it is frustrating to us to have to send patients to UVA or to the ED for things we knowingly can handle, however, this is a system-based problem. The rehab hospital is not ACLS certified, therefore any codes must be transported out. However, the residents are all ACLS certified and proceed with the initial management. By the way, this is rehab, not the ICU. Among other system problems mentioned are the computers/labs. We have been trying for years to be on the "same" system, and are so close now to finally having it all in one. I think the problems you might find with our freestanding rehab institution are similar to other freestanding rehab hospitals, and some of these fixable problems certainly are not for a lack of our trying to fix them. Politics within institutions can be difficult.

RuNnr, regarding the lunch, I am terribly sorry about this. For a few of our interview days, the catering was unable to deliver, and unfortunately we had to rely on the cafeteria at the last moment. We have all been there on the interview trail, and couldn't agree with you more. I am not sure why this was the case, but funny enough, after your visit RuNnr, all of the lunches were catered with really good food. It is sad that happened while you were visiting.

The sports medicine comments by UVAmed07 are somewhat innaccurate. Let me clarify. So, we do spend 3 months during our pgy 3 year with Dr.Wilder, a board certified, fellowship trained sports medicine specialist. You will see a high volume of true "sports medicine" patients. As mentioned, we cover some weekend and weekday running races. These races include local, highschool, and college (ACC/UVA). In addition, we accompany Dr. Wilder to the UVA athletic training room twice a week to care for the UVA cross country/track athletes, and will also see volleyball, lacrosse, and some other sports. Furthermore, we cover Highschool football games in the summer/fall. Also, we spend a month with the orthopedists, often at the McCue sports medicine center with the Ortho sports medicine fellowship trained physicians. During our fourth year, we have 3 months of electives and 3 months of research. The research time is protected, with the exception of two half days of interventional spine. You are free to use that time in addition to your elective time to pursue clinical interests. We have an advanced sports medicine elective that may be taken by a pgy 4 if they like with Dr. Mistry, one of our faculty, and the co-medical director of the UVA athletic training room. Dr. Mistry covers UVA soccer, lacrosse, volleyball, and swimming to mention a few. If a resident demonstrates an interest in covering these, he or she may. We have had senior residents who have done this, and the opportunity is certainly there.

As mentioned, we spend two half days a week during our research blocks peforming interventional spine procedures as a pgy-4. We also spend a month in the anesthesia run pain management center as a pgy 3. For the past 7 out of 8 years, one or more UVA PM&R residents have gone into the UVA pain fellowship. This past year marked the first time someone from our dept. had not gone into the program. This coincidentally happened following the hire of a former UVA PM&R resident turned UVA anesthesia pain fellow who turned down an offer to join the anesthesia pain center faculty, and subsequently was joined our dept. to start the interventioal spine program. This same individual, now attending, will also be one of the key players in the newly opening UVA Spine Center. Understandably, feathers were ruffled. However, the anesthesia pain faculty were very helpful in my personally obtaining a pain fellowship, provided excellent advice, and wrote recommendation letters on my behalf. Furthermore, I am involved in research with their dept. With the new ACGME multidisciplinary guidelines, it will be interesting see what develops.

Some final words, in what has been way too long a post: What I find difficult to understand, is why someone would post negative comments about a program based on "rumors" and second hand knowledge? Like all rumors there is a vague foundation of reality, but it has been twisted to reflect poorly on an otherwise well-rounded, successful PM&R residency that has attracted some of the best faculty and residents in the field. These statments I have read in the previous posts are not to be confused with the truth, and simply reflect a lack of insight that is matched by arrogance. I wish all the 4th year medical students the best of luck in the upcoming match, and remember, the best program out there is the one that works the best for you. 😀

 

[RuNnR]

Well, I did feel like my questions were answered......and a brat? Sorry, I'm far from that. I won't resort to name calling, and I wasn't alone in feeling this way about the food.

Why are little things important? Well, it's demeaning to the program b/c it shows you don't give a hoot. All you have to do is cut off 1/2 to 3/4s of your day for interviews. Some of us are flying from all over the USA b/c UVA IS a great program. I never doubted this. You don't have to wine and dine or give out party bags. BUT reality is, people remember things about programs, and one of them is the food!

 

[fozzy40]

Any feedback about Georgetown?

 

[melancholy]

Dr. Sliwa has one in his office. Facing him in the interview, it would have been behind your head on the wall, so you probably wouldn't see it. RIC has the largest alumni network of any PMR program in the country. And, yes, it is a huge help and should be considered in your selection process.

Later,

NF

Does Dr. Sliwa still have that picture of Charlie Knoll behind his desk?

 

[axm397]

Does Dr. Sliwa still have that picture of Charlie Knoll behind his desk?

yes! That's a classic.

 

[mdvol]

I was a little peeved at the UVAMED07 post when the "brat" comment came out 😡 but to blanket a program "as not caring" is a little strong - it actually requires a great amount of work (not simply taking th day off) for the program directors, coordinators to put together/schedule the interviews, you will appreciate this more when you see the process in action or when you are chief at your future program.

I agree with you though, especially when you are into like interview #8 and some $thousand down and at a program where you aren't getting good vibes then you don't even get a decent lunch!

Thanks to my colleague above for posting with a more level head and I couldn't agree more with his post.

Good luck to you guys with "match" - it can be nerve wracking, I remember!

 

[rehab_sports_dr]

For whatever my opinion is worth-

I think it is crazy to judge a program by the quality of the lunch they served.

 

[dc2md]

For whatever my opinion is worth-

I think it is crazy to judge a program by the quality of the lunch they served.

i don't think anyone is judging the entire program on the lunch alone. it just adds to the whole experience. just like when we go to prelim medicine interviews and they have a free hotel stay, gift bag at hotel desk, free nice dinner, and of course excellent lunch at an actual restaurant. that all just leaves a great impression months later when rank order time comes.

 

[RuNnR]

oh good lord. So this has been blown WAY out of proportion. So maybe I used certain words that were too harsh. I'll take that. I didn't go to med school for my English. And dc2md puts it much better than I did.

And maybe I have a skewed view. I interviewed for real estate companies and investment firms after I graduated from college. ANd they really do a fine job of attracting candidates and feeding them with info and great food. SO maybe I was off a little. But in past experience, I was taught that it's the presentation that just adds to the experience and lasting impression.

BY NO MEANS would I rank a program on it's food.

 

[rehab_sports_dr]

oh good lord. So this has been blown WAY out of proportion. So maybe I used certain words that were too harsh. I'll take that. I didn't go to med school for my English. And dc2md puts it much better than I did.

First off, as you will soon see when you start seeing patients, the words use have enormous impact on perception. While maybe you "didn't go to med school for your English," realize that the way you use language will likely have more impact on your success as a physician than any other skill you carry forward. There is an enormous literature on this (including the most recent Presidential address to the North American Spine Society), and it is focus of 1 of the 6 core competences by which you will be evaluated.

Second, beyond your use of language, the concern I have is not in how you articulated your thoughts, but the enormous sense of entitlement that may be underlying your thoughts. I can't speak of you personally- perhaps it was simply a poorly constructed choice of words- so I will speak of a hypothetical medical student making similar comments.

Candidates deserve to have a well organized day that doesn't excessively inconvenience them and provides them with all the information they need to make an informed decision

The interview day should not be about residency programs trying to "woo" candidates. It should be about honestly presenting their educational product, and the medical students using that information to make an informed decision about the best place to train.

> And maybe I have a skewed view. I interviewed for real estate companies and investment firms after I graduated from college. ANd they really do a fine job of attracting candidates and feeding them with info and great food. SO maybe I was off a little. But in past experience, I was taught that it's the presentation that just adds to the experience and lasting impression.

Totally different industries, and IMO not particularly relevant. I don't know if you fully appreciate how expensive the interview process is on a departmental level. Beyond the food (which can be expensive), think about the lost clinical time that is spent interviewing candidates. For a typical interview day, each candidate will be interviewed three times by clinical faculty, plus an hour or so of introduction or overview. That is a clinical half day. So, basically, in order to try and provide a useful presentation for each residency candidate, each department is forgoing up to 10% of their departments clinical productivity. I would think about that when you wonder whether a department actually cares about you as a candidate. How willing would you be to give up 10% of your income?

> BY NO MEANS would I rank a program on it's food.

I can't comment on you specifically, not knowing you personally. This is not meant as a comment on you particularly, just the tenor of some of the comments posted both here and in the rank list discussion. It appears that many of the medical students ranked programs on how much departments are willing to "give" them, whether it be in terms of cush schedule, perks, allowing them to tailor their schedule around their current interests rather than ACGME requirements, etc.

The comment about the food at the interview is just emblematic of this greater attitude, which I find unfortunate, and I think will ill serve people going forward. The best training programs will be those that give residents the tools they need to succeed, and who successfully recruit candidates who will take advantage of those opportunities (as per the "teach a person to fish" cliche). People looking for a "free lunch" - both literally and figuratively, well .... ultimately they will get what they deserve

 

[PencilRiot]

Normally I'm hesitant to post anything on an internet forum, but I feel I should reply to uvamed07's comments.

I'm currently a 4th year student at UVA and a PM&R applicant. In fact, I'm only one of two PM&R applicants in my class (of whom I am aware). Both of us rotated through the department and loved it. Furthermore, I have never heard anyone in the hospital speak poorly of the department. Sure, some people don't know what PM&R is, but that's not a problem isolated to UVA.

It's a little strange for a PM&R applicant to avoid rotating at their home department. I have to question whether you are actually a UVA student. I don't want anyone to reveal personal information in a public forum, so just send me a PM if you take issue with what I have said. If you actually are a classmate, I'll be happy to retract my statement.

 

[thewza]

In reply to all these comments, I feel the need to rank my favorite lunches at my interviews:

1) Emory - Excellent hotel lunch buffet. Fantastic fare. It combined buffet staples such as prime rib, with a southern Georgia flare.

2) U of Colorado - Dinner at an above average eatery. The fish was highly recommended and did not disappoint.

3) U of Washington - Excellent pre-boxed lunches. Upscale sandwiches with gourmet breads and fixings such as roasted red peppers. Phenomenal attention to detail.

4) Mount Sinai - Lunch at upscale hospital cafeteria for physicians only. Delicious salad.

5) Temple, Hopkins, Cornell, NYU, and Kessler: All similar sandwich platters. Nothing memorable, but certainly good sustenance.

6) UCLA - No lunch, hence last on my rank list They could have at least given ramen noodles.


P.S. - As Mr. Ando, the recently deceased inventor of Ramen Noodles said, "Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime. Give him ramen noodles, and you don’t have to teach him anything."

 

[Disciple]

I was taught that it's the presentation that just adds to the experience and lasting impression.

Absolutely.

Something that is essential to private practice that they don't teach you during residency.

 

[Disciple]

It appears that many of the medical students ranked programs on how much departments are allowing them to tailor their schedule around their current interests rather than ACGME requirements, etc.

There is nothing wrong with knowing what you want. I would be more inclined to take a candidate who is motivated and focused in this manner than someone who says "What about PM&R do I like? Well, uh, I guess I like everything".

The comment about the food at the interview is just emblematic of this greater attitude, which I find unfortunate, and I think will ill serve people going forward. The best training programs will be those that give residents the tools they need to succeed, and who successfully recruit candidates who will take advantage of those opportunities (as per the "teach a person to fish" cliche). People looking for a "free lunch" - both literally and figuratively, well .... ultimately they will get what they deserve

Look at it this way. Yes, food has no bearing on quality of training. However, a poor presentation can be a sign of other things. To relate an experience, about a year and a half ago I had a fellowship interview (reuputable program) where I, and other candidates, were treated very poorly i.e. no coffee, water (let alone lunch), guide to the various faculty offices, directions until I was in the cab on the way to the hospital. "Yeah, just take 2 blocks down, then a left, then another left and knock on the door and security should let you in. Oh, and you can grab a hotdog from the vendors on the way over".

It just leaves a bad taste in your mouth and really makes you think. Were I to come here, would the Dept/PD/chairman acutally care about my career/have my best interests at heart? Am I just here to see that the Dept gets their per resident stipend from Medicare?

Clearly, there are programs out there that do not do all that is necessary to optimally provide for their residents.

 

[cleospot]

As someone who was lucky enough to rotate at UVA and who is going to Stanford for rehab next year, I just wanted to put in my two cents...

First - UVA. Great outpatient experiences, great collegiality between residents and attendings, and all the sports you could ask for (plus the extra-cool SPEED lab in the basement with the 8 million dollar treadmill). Probably not the place to go for inpatient, but they'll tell you that straight out.
And the whole Healthsouth thing? Who cares? Every hospital these days is run by bean counters, obvious or not. And maybe the lunch wasn't all that great, but as a vegetarian, it sure beat the spare ribs at Baylor or the all-meat Chinese food at Davis 😉 Sub-par lunch is a pretty silly reason not to rank what is otherwise a great program with a great program director.

Second - Stanford. As a current intern at the Valley, I can tell you that it's a bit rough. But compared to other county hospitals? Give me a break - it's a freakin' palace. Life there isn't easy, but it's not quite the killer it's made out to be on this forum. Trust me - after internship anything less than 80 hours a week sounds great. And you get a ton of exposure to inpatient rehab as well as vent management and direct interaction with the neurosurg attendings (there aren't any residents).

 

[HunterGatherer]

Where are the LI interview experiences? Nassau, LIJ, Stony Brook

hoping for more feedback after the match especially for LI. Congrats.

 

[freddydpt]

hoping for more feedback after the match especially for LI. Congrats.

I'll second that...

 

[axm397]

I'll second that...

moving this year's interview trail thread off so we can start a new one for next year.

 

[FitDoc]

I would like to hear more about UW, particularly the didactics, the board review, and other's experiences on the rotation/interview trail...

 

[SportsMed09]

Anybody interview at KU? I'm interested in knowing what people thought of their program, and what their didactics and what is their inpt/outpt emphasis.