Interviewed at 4 schools but still no "Yays". What can/should I do?

[doctorswag]

If this post is too long and you don't feel like reading, the post title should suffice as a summary. Any advice is appreciated!​

Hello everybody!

I am going to be honest; I am making this post because I am desperate and I would like to consult the great oracle SDN. Below, I have appended a post a made before I applied last year with all my ECs and stats etc for your reference.

I sent my primary AMCAS application last June and received secondary applications from pretty much every school I applied to. I was honestly terrible at sending them back in a timely manner, if at all. I understand now that schools are looking to have you send back your secondaries within two weeks of receiving them and I doubt I did that for any school. Of all the regrets I have about this past admissions cycle, that tops the list.

In any case, I got interview invites (and consequently interviewed) at four schools. Two in-state here in California, and two out-of-state in New York (11/16/2013, 3/6/2014; 12/16/2013, 4/3/2014 respectively). Cool right?! Ehh. Kinda.

I have since been notified of being waitlisted at one New York school. The other three schools that I interviewed at have been perfectly silent and at this point, the silence is crushing me. We are now 11 months into this cycle, and so, as much as I am dreading it, I am seriously considering re-opening my AMCAS application. Yeah yeah, dramatic. I know.

Anyway, we are rapidly approaching the seemingly "big" day May 15th, the day everyone who is fortunate enough to have multiple acceptances has to give them all up except for one. This opens up quite a few spots at many schools, so the weeks following are more or less the last chance for applicants to get into medical school barring some major change (dropouts, etc). At least that's what I understand. That's my little glint of hope right there.

Okay, now here is where you guys come in:

1) What can/should I do between now and May 15th (or since I am desperate, June 1st) to improve my chances even in the slightest?

• NOTE: I haven't sent any letters of interest/intent thus far and I am somewhat certain that I should at this point. WHAT SHOULD I SAY? This is a major point for me.

2) Nothing really significant has changed except for maybe the fact that I graduated last month or that my scientific paper is just starting on its way to being published. I dont really feel like thats enough for an update? What do you guys think?

3) Lets say worse comes to worst, and I don't get an acceptance in the next 3 weeks to a month or so, I figure I should re-apply because that seems like a better idea than essentially waiting TWO more years before I can start medical school. And I am sure as hell not going to hold my breath for schools to accept me on some random occurrence the day before classes start this August.

Okay cool, I'll reapply but I am worried that I am gonna look the exact same on my application as I did when I applied last June. As I said in #2, nothing significant has changed and if anything, my GPA actually dropped a little bit with the last few classes I took. Not really sure what to do.

I can wait until my paper gets published, but I am afraid that applying slightly late at the beginning of this current cycle was what put me at a disadvantage in the first place. Lets assume my paper gets published in like mid-July maybe...What do you guys think?

That is the end of my rant/cry for help. Thank you guys so much in advance!

I would honestly appreciate ANY and ALL advice you can give me, but in all cases, be honest and give it to me straight!

Good luck to all those in the same position!

As aforementioned, here is the post I made about my stats and ECs when I was still hopeful and was planning to apply last June:

"Hey guys!

I am getting ready to submit my application, but I need some help tailor fitting my school list. A huge thank you to everyone in advance!

Here are my specs:

At a glance:

Egyptian-American Male
Neuroscience major at a top California public school
Cumulative GPA: 3.65
Science GPA: 3.67
Junior Year (Last completed year) GPA: 3.85
MCAT: 33 (11/11/11)

Work Experience:

• (1.75 years) University student fundraiser/caller mentor: 9 hours/week cold-calling alumni, parents, students, and friends of the university to raise monetary funds for the school. Huge lesson in communication, persistence, and professionalism.
• (1+ years) University information technology and technical support center: student consultant, this often involves diagnosing, explaining, and resolving problems in computers/mobile devices in the same way that a doctor would in patients. (Reflects my technical background)

Research:
Not exactly that impressive.
1 year at a neurobiology lab independently preparing and analyzing resting fMRI data of sleep study patients for functional connectivity. I have some findings, but no publications yet! I am definitely working on it though; Ill be there ALL summer.

Volunteer:

• (1.5 years) Director of Education for a science educational organization run by undergraduates; Responsible for everything from the coordination and evaluation of every member's presentation, to the creation of entirely new scientific modules in line with California's current high school science standards. I am also managing the creation of an organization textbook for use by members as a reference for the content of their presentations.
• (1 Quarter) Member of a science outreach program developed to stimulate an interest in neuroscience for children and adolescents. Created a detailed lesson plan for a presentation and hands-on practicum for high-school students.
• (5 years) Church volunteer - coach/organizer/Sunday School teacher; youth leader of youth ministry

Clinical:

• Shadowing: A total of 95 hours shadowing various radiologists, nephrologists, and internists, some of whom are directors of their respective departments.
• Hospital volunteer at a large university hospital (not much; 20 hours total)

Application:
My PS has gone through quite a few drafts and it seems pretty strong from what I have heard. It describes a unique aspect of my life that few can claim and ties it up neatly in a metaphor.
My LORs are sort of a question mark. I know I have a strong one from my university's vice-chair of neuroscience. I will also be getting a fairly strong one from the director of a department in the humanities. Another will be from my priest which should be quite strong as well and describes all my responsibilities at my church. Another will be from a science professor whose class I scored and presented very well in.

School list: (this is where I need help!)

I am honestly open to any schools that of course are either in-state or friendly to California OOS-ers. As another bit of helpful criteria, I have family/friends in California, Chicago, Boston, and Florida. I am looking to apply to 30+ schools (?) organized in a fall-back, good fit, reach stratification. The list below is sort of a compilation of suggestions from friends, etc; its not an honest reflection of my own picks from MSAR:

In-State:
Loma Linda
UC Irvine
UC Davis
USC
Stanford (?)
UCLA - David Geffen
UCLA/Charles Drew
UCLA PRIME
UCSF
UCSD
UCR (?; very Riverside-oriented)

Out-of-state:
George Washington
Georgetown
Rosalind Franklin
Northwestern
Rush
UChicago (?)
Albany
Albert Einstein
NYU
Columbia
NY Medical College
SUNY Downstate
SUNY Upstate
Stony Brook
Rochester
Johns Hopkins (?)
Howard
Washington University St. Louis
University of Washington
Baylor
Temple
Michigan
University of Arizona

Please please feel free to make comments about what I have for a school list so far. Go ahead and suggest removing schools that aren't OOS-friendly or are severely out of my range! I would also GREATLY APPRECIATE suggestions on schools that should be added and the possible organization of schools into fall-back, good fit, and reach schools!

Any insight on anything here would be awesome!

Thanks again!"

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[mct2762]

send some letters of intent. Call the admissions office to check on your status

 

[Goro]

Nothing. Patience is a virute. Make sure that LOI or updates are accepeted at the schools. Unless they're specifically welcomed. LOI are a waste of time. They already know you want to go there. Don't show that you're someone who can't follow directions, or who thinks that the rules don't apply to you.


1) What can/should I do between now and May 15th (or since I am desperate, June 1st) to improve my chances even in the slightest?

Imagine you're the Dean of Admissions. You have a ton of wait-listees. You get a note from one stating the below. Do YOU think you'd bump this guy up?

2) Nothing really significant has changed except for maybe the fact that I graduated last month or that my scientific paper is just starting on its way to being published. I dont really feel like thats enough for an update? What do you guys think?


Very smart move. Always have aplan B. You should make sure to not how you've improved int he past years, and for crissakes, apply early! And work on interview skills.

3) Lets say worse comes to worst, and I don't get an acceptance in the next 3 weeks to a month or so, I figure I should re-apply because that seems like a better idea than essentially waiting TWO more years before I can start medical school. And I am sure as hell not going to hold my breath for schools to accept me on some random occurrence the day before classes start this August.

Not oa good sign, but you'll just have to take it on the chin.


Okay cool, I'll reapply but I am worried that I am gonna look the exact same on my application as I did when I applied last June. As I said in #2, nothing significant has changed and if anything, my GPA actually dropped a little bit with the last few classes I took. Not really sure what to do.

Nope, late = wait-list. You can always update.

I can wait until my paper gets published, but I am afraid that applying slightly late at the beginning of this current cycle was what put me at a disadvantage in the first place. Lets assume my paper gets published in like mid-July maybe...What do you guys think?



Stats are, well, avg.

Cumulative GPA: 3.65
Science GPA: 3.67
Junior Year (Last completed year) GPA: 3.85
MCAT: 33 (11/11/11)


You had better boost those clinicla volunteer hours. You need to show adcoms that you want to be around patients for the next 30-40 years.

Goro's list


In-State:
Loma Linda
UC Davis
USC
UCLA - David Geffen

Out-of-state:
George Washington
Georgetown
Rosalind Franklin
Northwestern
Rush
Albany
Albert Einstein
NY Medical College
Rochester
Temple
University of Arizona (maybe)
MCW
SLU
Loyola
Creighton
BU
Tufts
Wake Forest
Tulane
All new MD schools
EVMS
VCU
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Tufts
Miami

 

[doctorswag]

Thanks for your responses!
Okay I called all 4 schools and they all welcome letters of interest, so I am writing them now and will send them ASAP with a few updates that I am scraping together.

In the meantime, I am applying to a medical scribing position which I hope will be the clinical experience I am looking for.

NOW, I have a question for you guys: If I reopen/submit a new application for this upcoming cycle, am I effectively withdrawing my current applications with these schools? In other words, if I submit an application for this upcoming cycle, can I still theoretically be accepted for the current cycle?

If not, what the hell do I do?? I'm not sure if I should wait or submit!!

If I can still be accepted with a new application submission, then totally ignore my freakout above.

 

[Plecopotamus]

Thanks for your responses!
Okay I called all 4 schools and they all welcome letters of interest, so I am writing them now and will send them ASAP with a few updates that I am scraping together.

In the meantime, I am applying to a medical scribing position which I hope will be the clinical experience I am looking for.

NOW, I have a question for you guys: If I reopen/submit a new application for this upcoming cycle, am I effectively withdrawing my current applications with these schools? In other words, if I submit an application for this upcoming cycle, can I still theoretically be accepted for the current cycle?

If not, what the hell do I do?? I'm not sure if I should wait or submit!!

If I can still be accepted with a new application submission, then totally ignore my freakout above.

Submitting an application for the next cycle will not remove you from consideration/waitlists for the current cycle.

 

[Captain Sisko]

In your update letters you should tell them about all the extra clinical experience you racked up during your application year. If you didn't do that, I'd opine that you want to before you reapply.

 

[MedWonk]

I would add UVM to Goro's list. Might be the most OOS friendly state school.

 

[RiceKrispyTreats]

I'd add way more schools to your list. It does cost more money, but it's still much less money than a re-applicant cycle. Med school admissions is such a crapshoot anyway; there wasn't that much rhyme or reason in where I got interviews or where I got in.

 

[lobo.solo]

It is possible that you can get in this cycle. Get those LOIs before May 15th. Things to say in the letter are anything new: graduation, the continuation of other ECs. Also, how you liked the school and how you are a good fit for school. There are examples on here. Use search button. But really get those letters in ASAP. Prepare for reapplying anyways. Submit early. If you have to interview in the next cycle, make sure you prepare well: research the school and practice extensively. From this cycle it seems you need to improve your interviewing skills. GL

 

[mvenus929]

I have since been notified of being waitlisted at one New York school. The other three schools that I interviewed at have been perfectly silent and at this point, the silence is crushing me. We are now 11 months into this cycle, and so, as much as I am dreading it, I am seriously considering re-opening my AMCAS application. Yeah yeah, dramatic. I know.

Let's be realistic for a moment here. It's almost May 15th and you haven't heard a single thing from three schools. That probably means you've been rejected. Every single school that had waitlisted me notified me of that status in April. The ones who were silent later sent me notices informing me of my rejection.

Anyway, we are rapidly approaching the seemingly "big" day May 15th, the day everyone who is fortunate enough to have multiple acceptances has to give them all up except for one. This opens up quite a few spots at many schools, so the weeks following are more or less the last chance for applicants to get into medical school barring some major change (dropouts, etc). At least that's what I understand. That's my little glint of hope right there.

Another dose of harsh reality--fewer spots open than you think. Schools overaccept people, and count on people dropping by that May 15th deadline. My school has, in the past 5 years, not had enough people drop by May 15th twice, and thus didn't remove anyone from the waitlist those years.

1) What can/should I do between now and May 15th (or since I am desperate, June 1st) to improve my chances even in the slightest?

2) Nothing really significant has changed except for maybe the fact that I graduated last month or that my scientific paper is just starting on its way to being published.

I know this sucks to hear, but you should have been working on improving your application all year. Yes, you waited forever to send in secondaries, but if you apply with the same exact application this year, you're unlikely to have much success, particularly at the places that already interviewed you. But, you can start working on stuff now. I'd suggest beefing up your clinical experience a little. Get a job as a scribe, go back to hospital volunteering, volunteer in a nursing home or rehab hospital, get EMT trained--something. That's the biggest weakness on your application, and not being able to articulate appropriately why you want to be a physician will keep you out of medical school.

3) Lets say worse comes to worst, and I don't get an acceptance in the next 3 weeks to a month or so, I figure I should re-apply because that seems like a better idea than essentially waiting TWO more years before I can start medical school. And I am sure as hell not going to hold my breath for schools to accept me on some random occurrence the day before classes start this August.

Okay cool, I'll reapply but I am worried that I am gonna look the exact same on my application as I did when I applied last June. As I said in #2, nothing significant has changed and if anything, my GPA actually dropped a little bit with the last few classes I took. Not really sure what to do.

My honest advice is to wait a year before reapplying. I've been in your position. I know it hurts, and I know how frustrating it can be. But I went from 0 acceptances to 2 (one on October 15th, allowing me to drop interviews I didn't want) my second cycle, and I'm going to have my MD in 4 days. You can apply this year, but you'll be applying with a subpar application. You might end up lucky and get in somewhere if you apply broadly enough, but you might also waste a year and thousands of dollars. Instead, you can wait a year, build up a savings, and apply with the strongest application you can put forward, and have a much higher chance of earning that acceptance.

And if you end up getting accepted off the waitlist this cycle, then you wouldn't have dropped fees on another application yet.

Good luck.

 

[mizzu]

Mid June July isn't late...

Second, just look up letters of intent, and try calling.

 

[doctorswag]

Alright guys! Thank you for all your help.
Some updates:

• I sent a letter of intent to my top choice and letters of interest to the other three. I gave them updates on my graduation, the completion of my research, and the results of my leadership in one of the organizations I'm involved in. I also talked about the things I loved about their school and how I could apply my experience to the pursuit of their mission.
• The other NY school officially put me on their waitlist, but I haven't heard anything else from the other schools.
• I am reapplying this cycle, BUT I need some advice. Does anybody have tips on how to reapply successfully? What to do differently and what to avoid? Are there any seminal posts on this topic?
• Based on my situation outlined above, does anyone have any ideas as to why my application could have been put aside? My assumption is that my late secondaries plus my relative lack of clinical experience put me at a disadvantage. If I submit my secondaries right away this time and talk about the medical scribe position that I am about to start, do you think I'll have a better chance?
• I'll also need help with my school list. Based on my info above, do you guys think you could help me come up with a better list?
• Also, what advice do you have on new LORs? I will add one from my PI and possibly another doctor that I shadowed, but should I absolutely get the ones I submitted last time updated? I don't know how much different those LOR writers will be able to make their letters. What are your thoughts?

Thank you all in advance!

 

[doctorswag]

One last thing to add to my post above: does anyone have an opinion on sending in an additional LOR last minute for this current cycle? Worth a shot?