Irish schools better regarded for US residencies?

[jane2]

I've heard that the US universities are much more amenable to taking students from Ireland than from the UK for residencies. Is this really true ? Apparently they are more well known than even the extremely good UK universities, and they also have good links to US hospitals / med schools, so you can do electives and placements there.

Does anyone have any first-hand / evidence-based evidence on these things? I've tried to find statistics of where foreign non-visa-possessing IMGs who gain residencies are from, but have not had very much luck.

Thoughts....feelings...opinions.....statistics......all are welcome.

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[Jamesmtl]

This is just to bump this up....anyone have any answers....What about Irish schools vs those in the caribbean??? I'm hoping Irish ones are better recognized!

 

[punjabiv]

my academic adivisor said that outside the US, Ireland is the best place to go. He said that you don't really have a stigma attached to going to med school there as you would in the carrib.

 

[Waiting4Ganong]

The sample size of UK applicants applying to US is tiny(<<100/yr). The number of North Americans (NA) getting in UK medical schools is also tiny(<20/yr).

I don't think anything meaningful can be said beyond stating I've never heard of a UK medic not being able to match in the US.

Even beyond the tiny numbers we are talking about here - trying to compare UK to US residency match rates from NAs from Carib or Ireland is ludicrous as those people have completely different academic records.

For most UK isn't even an option so a completely moot point.

Both Ireland and Top 3 Carib will probably let you match in a US residency if you work hard but, as I've said once or twice before, your best option is simply to ....

"Go to Medical School in the Country you want to Practice in"

 

[leorl]

jane, sorry don't really know the answer to that. I really wouldn't know why Irish schools would be better regarded than UK schools. They might be more known because more Americans go here than to the UK (I think the UK selection process is more difficult), but the standard of education isn't any better. Maybe because they're more well known, there might be more connections to US hospitals but really, there aren't That many connections and only a few get to avail of them. But I'm sort of postulating here. They might be more well known simply because of the tourist factor that more Americans come to Ireland. sorry, no ebm that I'm aware of.

 

[dr strangelove]

I've heard that the US universities are much more amenable to taking students from Ireland than from the UK for residencies. Is this really true ? Apparently they are more well known than even the extremely good UK universities, and they also have good links to US hospitals / med schools, so you can do electives and placements there.

Does anyone have any first-hand / evidence-based evidence on these things? I've tried to find statistics of where foreign non-visa-possessing IMGs who gain residencies are from, but have not had very much luck.

Thoughts....feelings...opinions.....statistics......all are welcome.

My own experience: I was talking to the former director of the Johnson Space Centre and he was very impressed when I told him I was studying at Glasgow. He had heard a lot about the medical school's reputation. Believe me, I was very surprised too! With the exception of perhaps UCD or TCD I don't even think he would have heard of an Irish university!

As for US universities being more taking more Irish graduates, there could be a simple explanation for this: Ireland graduates more Americans every year than the UK does, despite the fact that the UK has far more student spaces in its medical schools. I presume American univerisites will look more favourably on Americans, even if they're educated abroad. It's just like Waiting4Ganong said.

 

[roo]

UK gives its overseas spots to countries that don't have medical schools of their own, or from 3rd world mostly, with a handful of NA students.

Converse for Ireland, lions slice of non-RCSI is from countries that can afford the costs, and from USA/Canada, with a smattering of students from poor countries (often their home governments pick up the tab).

So by the numbers, going to have bit more Irish-trained than UK-trained.
Quality-wise is likely the same, as much of the cirriculum is similar orientation.

I met one Irish grad and one UK grad in residency travels. Neither had problems.

Best wishes

 

[BlondeCookie]

Please stop with the broad sweeping generalisations about Ireland's med schools being better/worse than England's. Programme Directors of Residency Programmes are certainly not going to look at applications from new grads and unequivocally state that the education in Ireland is better/worse than the education in England. Don't be naive. Both countries have very high standards of education. To infer that one country is superior to the other is foolish.

 

[skomes]

This is just to bump this up....anyone have any answers....What about Irish schools vs those in the caribbean??? I'm hoping Irish ones are better recognized!

I'm going to go with probably not. There will always be a certain stigma against caribbean schools, I don't think it exists with irish schools only because they aren't well known whereas carib schools have been around 20-30 years. However, if you check around, the carib schools generally match well, it really depends on your USMLE scores, and the carib schools aim to prepare their students as well as possible for those exams. One guy from AUC matched in general surgery at Mayo, only irish grad I've heard of matching at mayo was for psychiatry, generally not a competitive residency. The carib schools aren't generally well known, but they are well known to the people doing interviews for residency programs. Again, it mostly depends on your marks, aim to do better than most american students in terms of average USMLE scores for whatever residency you want.

 

[Arb]

Schools like Ross also has a huge number of alumni and I guess it's possible to have good connections at a great number of hospitals. Apparently, who you know is important for getting that residency position,fellowhip, etc. Of course in the end it's up to the student and studying in Ireland can prepare you well for the USMLEs. I think the major advantage of the Caribbean is the 2 years of clinical training in US hospitals.

 

[Jammer]

I'm going to go with probably not. There will always be a certain stigma against caribbean schools, I don't think it exists with irish schools only because they aren't well known whereas carib schools have been around 20-30 years. However, if you check around, the carib schools generally match well, it really depends on your USMLE scores, and the carib schools aim to prepare their students as well as possible for those exams. One guy from AUC matched in general surgery at Mayo, only irish grad I've heard of matching at mayo was for psychiatry, generally not a competitive residency. The carib schools aren't generally well known, but they are well known to the people doing interviews for residency programs. Again, it mostly depends on your marks, aim to do better than most american students in terms of average USMLE scores for whatever residency you want.

The problem with this type of post is that there is far too much speculation and generalization but, in reality, very few facts. Matching to a US residency is dependent on a variety of factors including chance coincidence that someone has some connection to or has heard of the foreign medical school that you attend. More importantly, though, is what you bring to the table in your application. Great performances on electives, competitive USMLE scores, excellent letters of reference (especially from US clinicians), academic awards, publications, etc. are what will get you noticed. Probably, in general, your USMLE scores and performance on electives are most important as a FMG. Most FMGs matching into competitive residency positions match at a program where they have rotated (only anecdotal evidence, but supported by about 20 people that matched into great programs, that I went to school with). However, it is very difficult to find just where irish graduates have matched in the US because there is no complete list (not even the one that ABP provides applicants) that includes people that go directly from medical school and those that match after several years of postgraduate training in Ireland. Even more important, there is no list that provides you with information on how many irish graduates apply to the US but fail to match. Also, at the stage of applying to medical school, even if you had a comprehensive list, the majority of medical school applicants really don't have the experience to qualitatively evaluate the residency positions that people have matched to. You don't really gain that type of knowledge until you have done some electives and talked to many different people to gain their opinions on the quality of different US residency programs that you are interested in. In each specialty, there are many different places to train and a broad range in the quality of programs.

I believe that most reputable Caribbean schools are providing lists on their websites of where their recent graduates have matched now. That is a good starting point. Again, they don't tell you how many graduates don't match.

Fact: To my knowledge, RCSI has had two students that matched into categorical general surgery at Mayo, one in 2004 and the other just this year.