Irregular behavior Charge By USMLE

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I'm a little confused....it took them 2 years to accuse you of "irregular behavior"? 😕

And I would tell your PD. Tell him early, and he may be able to offer advice. Hiding things never works out well.
 
How long ago did all of this happen? Did you not know anything like this was stewing before you got the notification? And the irregular behavior -- did it happen, or is it some mistake? If it's a minor technicality type of deal, it's reasonable to tell your pd now. If it's not, and you can get the charges dropped, then maybe wait and see how things are looking. If you really can't take step 3, then he/she is going to have to know.
 
I agree, I would tell your PD now.

Think of it this way:

You vs USMLE

Vs

Your PD vs USMLE

If your PD likes you / you are doing well, there is some chance that they can rescue you from this. If you really discussed the content of the exam on an online forum, that was really dumb. The first thing you do when you take a USMLE exam is sign a contract to not discuss what was on the exam, and then you go and post said information publicly? (I say this not to hurt your feelings, but rather warn others against this).

Not taking Step 3 = never being a physician, so your career is over. This is not a time to wait around and see what happens. The big guns come out now. That (hopefully) includes your program. Hopefully they can help you figure out a better solution.

First piece of advice: Your ultimate target is to get to take Step 3. Assuming that you actually did what they have accused you of, do not plan to get "off" based on someone pulling strings or some technicality. Instead, ask yourself what other, lesser punishment would let everyone walk away from this and feel like justice was done. Assuming that you "did it", you have a better chance of coming out successfully if you're honest, contrite, and remorseful.

Chances are, a lawyer would give you the complete opposite advice -- never admit to anything and fight it all the way. I have no idea which strategy would work better.
 
Jennifer3030 said:
That is my fear. i am hoping a lawyer would be able to do that for me. the problem is where do I get the lawyer. Not sure where to look.
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Start with your local bar association. Most bar associations have a "Lawyer Referral" service which are designed to steer people to an attorney experienced in the area where they needs help.

Good luck!
 
My trolldar is tingling.

How did they pinpoint you based on some random postings about USMLE Q's/topics? Was your username really your first and last name? Then again, it appears you've not learned much given how you used (presumably) your first name to create this new username. :idea:
 
Jennifer3030 said:
Thank you so much for your input.

So, not to implicate myself since we dont know if NBME is monitoring this thread, assuming Mr. Joe was accused of discussing USMLE materials on an online forum. Mr. joe wrote to the USMLE explaining to them that the questions discussed look similar to the NBME ones but that they were actually from a Qbank, but nevertheless Mr. Joe was found to have committed "irregular behavior" based on whatever evidence the USMLE has. Mr. joe did not attend the hearing because he felt that the USMLE has no case since Qbank questions look, for all intents, similar to real USMLE questions.

Anyhow, Mr. Joe now has 15 days to appeal. Should Mr Joe keep using the "they were Qbank questions" line or should Mr. Joe go directly, without a lawyer, to the NBME/USMLE that he is sorry and that they were in fact real questions from the exam he took.

How should Mr. Joe approach this. Fessing up would most likely not change the USMLE decision, but getting a lawyer might ( eg the Optima case where a lot of students were eventually let off the hook after they went to hearings with they attorneys)

Please what do you think.
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So, you DID post real USMLE questions.... keep trolling, dear.
 
Doctor4Life1769 said:
My trolldar is tingling.

How did they pinpoint you based on some random postings about USMLE Q's/topics? Was your username really your first and last name? Then again, it appears you've not learned much given how you used (presumably) your first name to create this new username. :idea:
Click to expand...


I have nothing to hide. I am not a bad person. people discuss questions all the time online and I still feel like this is a witch-hunt. I did not cheat on the exam. And I am not a devious person, I see no reason why i should hide my name because of this. I am here seeking for assistance, not trying to circumvent the system.

If you have nothing to add, please you dont have to respond. No one is above mistake.
 
Jennifer3030 said:
I have nothing to hide. I am not a bad person. people discuss questions all the time online and I still feel like this is a witch-hunt. I did not cheat on the exam. And I am not a devious person, I see no reason why i should hide my name because of this. I am here seeking for assistance, not trying to circumvent the system.

If you have nothing to add, please you dont have to respond. No one is above mistake.
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Way to be on the defensive.

I'm just saying I don't buy your story. I don't see how anyone can pinpoint posts by a poster to a specific person. Even with the use of IP addresses. That only tells you location, anyway.
 
Never use your first or last name on the internet and don't ever let anyone know what your username is. You never know when a classmate who knows that you are ""lollipop53" is gonna stab you in the back and write anonymously to the USMLE board in an effort to eliminate some competition.
 
Jennifer3030 said:
Mr. joe did not attend the hearing because he felt that the USMLE has no case since Qbank questions look, for all intents, similar to real USMLE questions.
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"Joe" made a huge mistake. You should have attended the hearing, represented by counsel. Did you really think that the hearing would turn out favorably for you with no one there to present and argue your case? Get a lawyer. NOW. As the PD stated, your career is at stake

Jennifer3030 said:
Anyhow, Mr. Joe now has 15 days to appeal. Should Mr Joe keep using the "they were Qbank questions" line or should Mr. Joe go directly, without a lawyer, to the NBME/USMLE that he is sorry and that they were in fact real questions from the exam he took.
Click to expand...

No and No. Get a lawyer.

Jennifer3030 said:
How should Mr. Joe approach this. Fessing up would most likely not change the USMLE decision, but getting a lawyer might ( eg the Optima case where a lot of students were eventually let off the hook after they went to hearings with they attorneys)Please what do you think.
Click to expand...

You've answered your own question. Get a lawyer.
 
Doctor4Life1769 said:
I don't see how anyone can pinpoint posts by a poster to a specific person. Even with the use of IP addresses. That only tells you location, anyway.
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I suppose the NBME could have subpoenaed that forum and demanded that user's email address. Not saying that's necessarily what happened, but it's certainly possible.
 
smq123 said:
I suppose the NBME could have subpoenaed that forum and demanded that user's email address. Not saying that's necessarily what happened, but it's certainly possible.
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I dunno. You guys are in the know in how that works.

I'd use a fake email address to sign up for random forums if I had to sign up for one. I think this site requires school email addresses, so it's a different story. Don't think other forums do, though.

Given how this poster has used her first name as part of her username, me-thinks she's not too bright and probably used her 1st and last name as her username, or used a real email address that consisted of her first and last name... for a forum that likely didn't require a school email address.
 
koennen said:
"Joe" made a huge mistake. You should have attended the hearing, represented by counsel. Did you really think that the hearing would turn out favorably for you with no one there to present and argue your case? Get a lawyer. NOW. As the PD stated, your career is at stake



No and No. Get a lawyer.



You've answered your own question. Get a lawyer.
Click to expand...


Thank you.

That's probably what I am going to have to do. BTW, I just re-read the email I got from the NBME and the punishment according to them would be:

1) Notation on all my USMLE transcript with the "irregular behavior " inscription

2)I may be barred from taking the USMLE exams for a certain period ( Not forever). I dont want to mention the exact time period for obvious reasons.

Anyway, thank you so much for your input. I really appreciate it.
 
Doctor4Life1769 said:
Way to be on the defensive.

I'm just saying I don't buy your story. I don't see how anyone can pinpoint posts by a poster to a specific person. Even with the use of IP addresses. That only tells you location, anyway.
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SDN has a warning (or at least they used to) on all their test forums, saying that your identity information can be discoverable if whatever testing agency thinks you posted something that violates their rules. I don't know that SDN has ever given away someone's name, but they notify you that it could happen if they get a subpoena to do so. These test companies monitor forums all the time for this type of stuff, so as APD said, just don't do it. And yeah, the op's story could definitely be legit.

OP, I would talk to your PD based on these circumstances.
 
And they still do -- here's what is posted in the Step 1 forum here.

The materials (i.e., test questions, clinical computer simulations, and standardized patient cases) of the USMLE, NBME’s self-assessment program and NBME subject examinations are copyrighted. Publishing any ‘remembered’ materials or replicas of these materials on The Student Doctor Network (or any other forum) is an unauthorized reproduction of NBME’s materials, constitutes copyright infringement and is strictly prohibited. Any violation of NBME’s copyrights and trademarks can not only lead to legal sanctions, but can also have professional consequences. Medical students and medical school graduates, prospective students, examinees of the USMLE and NBME self-assessment examinations and subject examinations are reminded that they are bound to the terms they agreed to follow regarding disclosure of intellectual property prior to the administration of one of these examinations. Failure to adhere to the terms of these policies will subject an individual to various penalties up to and including being barred from future USMLE examinations.
 
Doctor Bagel said:
SDN has a warning (or at least they used to) on all their test forums, saying that your identity information can be discoverable if whatever testing agency thinks you posted something that violates their rules. I don't know that SDN has ever given away someone's name, but they notify you that it could happen if they get a subpoena to do so. These test companies monitor forums all the time for this type of stuff, so as APD said, just don't do it. And yeah, the op's story could definitely be legit.

OP, I would talk to your PD based on these circumstances.
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Arch Guillotti said:
It can be done very easily.
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Fair enough.

Also, I totally agree that it's a bad idea to do what the OP supposedly did, at any rate.
 
Jennifer3030 said:
Thank you.

That's probably what I am going to have to do. BTW, I just re-read the email I got from the NBME and the punishment according to them would be:

1) Notation on all my USMLE transcript with the "irregular behavior " inscription

2)I may be barred from taking the USMLE exams for a certain period ( Not forever). I dont want to mention the exact time period for obvious reasons.

Anyway, thank you so much for your input. I really appreciate it.
Click to expand...

How did the NBME identify you?
 
This has happened to others, although I don't know the details or the aftermath.

Delete these posts, lawyer up, and talk to your PD.
 
You have made a big mistake in not taking this seriously right from the start, and not being pro-active. Sadly, burying your head in the sand has not made it go away. Even if you get to take your exams, this institutional action will now have job and licensing implications throughout your career. I hope anyone reading this who gets even a whisper of institutional action against them will learn lessons from it, and from all the other cases of institutional action posted on this board - you need to act as quickly as possible, and as strongly as possible, to have the matter resolved as much in your favour as you can manage.

Yes to deleting your earlier posts. If they found you on one on-line forum, they can find you on another. Do you really think no-one in NBME reads these boards? (As anything you say here may already have been taken down for use against you, so include a copy of this thread in the documentation for your lawyer/advisers, so you can work out appropriate answers to any questions that might be raised by what you have said here.)

I suspect you don't have much to lose at this stage by asking to see your PD and laying the whole matter in front of them. If you do have doubts about your PD's potential reaction, do you have a residency adviser/union rep who would understand the situation and know the PD, and be able to help you with talking to the PD?

I do think you should think about having a lawyer who is familiar with professional licensing issues to help. Make sure that any such lawyer is approaching things in a way which is most likely to get you the outcome you want.

I would suggest that, there is any way to do so, you/your lawyer might first try to get the initial decision re-opened for a new "first decision". It is usually easier to get a good outcome by arguing the whole case first time around rather than just appealing an adverse decision. Possible grounds for this would be that you waived your right to a hearing without advice and in a situation where you should not have done. Even if you do not have a legal right to have the initial hearing re-held, it is possible that you would still be given a re-hearing if the NBME are persuaded that this is the best way to deal with the problem they have with you.

Regarding the punishment, how does being banned for a certain period interact with the requirement to take the steps within a certain period? If you do accept/get given this punishment, you will need to be certain before hand of how a revised timeline would work.
 
shopsteward said:
You have made a big mistake in not taking this seriously right from the start, and not being pro-active. Sadly, burying your head in the sand has not made it go away. Even if you get to take your exams, this institutional action will now have job and licensing implications throughout your career. I hope anyone reading this who gets even a whisper of institutional action against them will learn lessons from it, and from all the other cases of institutional action posted on this board - you need to act as quickly as possible, and as strongly as possible, to have the matter resolved as much in your favour as you can manage.

Yes to deleting your earlier posts. If they found you on one on-line forum, they can find you on another. Do you really think no-one in NBME reads these boards? (As anything you say here may already have been taken down for use against you, so include a copy of this thread in the documentation for your lawyer/advisers, so you can work out appropriate answers to any questions that might be raised by what you have said here.)

I suspect you don't have much to lose at this stage by asking to see your PD and laying the whole matter in front of them. If you do have doubts about your PD's potential reaction, do you have a residency adviser/union rep who would understand the situation and know the PD, and be able to help you with talking to the PD?

I do think you should think about having a lawyer who is familiar with professional licensing issues to help. Make sure that any such lawyer is approaching things in a way which is most likely to get you the outcome you want.

I would suggest that, there is any way to do so, you/your lawyer might first try to get the initial decision re-opened for a new "first decision". It is usually easier to get a good outcome by arguing the whole case first time around rather than just appealing an adverse decision. Possible grounds for this would be that you waived your right to a hearing without advice and in a situation where you should not have done. Even if you do not have a legal right to have the initial hearing re-held, it is possible that you would still be given a re-hearing if the NBME are persuaded that this is the best way to deal with the problem they have with you.

Regarding the punishment, how does being banned for a certain period interact with the requirement to take the steps within a certain period? If you do accept/get given this punishment, you will need to be certain before hand of how a revised timeline would work.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much.

I really appreciate that you took the time to post a thoughtful response.
 
HondoCrouch said:
How did the NBME identify you?
Click to expand...
Although somewhat off topic, if someone is focused enough you can usually find out who someone online is. As mentioned, information can be legally compelled from a message board. More commonly (as it's often easier), you get a bit devious. I bet if the USMLE sent the OP a message saying "Hey, we have this new practice Step III exam and we're interested in seeing how accurate it is. Are you interested in trying it out?", they would likely jump at the chance and happily tell them who they are. Police departments do this every once and awhile and it makes the news -- send a bunch of people who are wanted for failing to pay alimony/childcare (or something like that) a letter telling them that they've won a free TV and they just need to show up at a certain store at a certain time. And then they arrest them all.

Note that I just made all of this up. I have no idea how the OP was identified. They could have simply had an MDApps link, or a facebook link, etc.
 
aProgDirector said:
Although somewhat off topic, if someone is focused enough you can usually find out who someone online is. As mentioned, information can be legally compelled from a message board. More commonly (as it's often easier), you get a bit devious. I bet if the USMLE sent the OP a message saying "Hey, we have this new practice Step III exam and we're interested in seeing how accurate it is. Are you interested in trying it out?", they would likely jump at the chance and happily tell them who they are. Police departments do this every once and awhile and it makes the news -- send a bunch of people who are wanted for failing to pay alimony/childcare (or something like that) a letter telling them that they've won a free TV and they just need to show up at a certain store at a certain time. And then they arrest them all.

Note that I just made all of this up. I have no idea how the OP was identified. They could have simply had an MDApps link, or a facebook link, etc.
Click to expand...

This is classic social engineering and WAAAYYY easier than hacking it or getting a subpoena. Bet you dollars to donuts this is how it went down.
 
gutonc said:
This is classic social engineering and WAAAYYY easier than hacking it or getting a subpoena. Bet you dollars to donuts this is how it went down.
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Very likely.

Without revealing details, let it be said that a major testing company in the US caught several SDN users in just that fashion. They are not above using devious practices to catch those who may violate their copyright.
 
Jennifer3030 said:
Thank you so much.

I really appreciate that you took the time to post a thoughtful response.
Click to expand...

Thank you, and I hope it goes well for you.

And as a final suggestion to you and to others, before you act on advice given by anonymous posters over the internet (including mine) please look at it with a critical eye and make your own decisions on what would be in your own best interests.
 
aProgDirector said:
Although somewhat off topic, if someone is focused enough you can usually find out who someone online is. As mentioned, information can be legally compelled from a message board. More commonly (as it's often easier), you get a bit devious. I bet if the USMLE sent the OP a message saying "Hey, we have this new practice Step III exam and we're interested in seeing how accurate it is. Are you interested in trying it out?", they would likely jump at the chance and happily tell them who they are. Police departments do this every once and awhile and it makes the news -- send a bunch of people who are wanted for failing to pay alimony/childcare (or something like that) a letter telling them that they've won a free TV and they just need to show up at a certain store at a certain time. And then they arrest them all.

Note that I just made all of this up. I have no idea how the OP was identified. They could have simply had an MDApps link, or a facebook link, etc.
Click to expand...

I was more interested in whether the OP was just reckless with their identity or if the NBME actually took legal steps to obtain it.

It would take a few steps beyong just "subpena the message board" as they would then have to match the IP address with an actual person and then an additional step to confirm the identity before any legal action could be taken against that person.

Oh how evil it would be if you could just spam post board questions all over the internet under a false name and ruin someones career.

Before they took action they had someway of knowing legally that they had the right person....was curious if the OP foolishly volunteered the info (most likely) of if the NBME was seeking out anonymous internet people and taking not insignificant steps to definitively identify them.
 
Hi there,
I was charged with Irregular behavior by USMLE.
Now that I have cleared all my exams, I am still being haunted by a mistake that I made after Step1. Can anyone with similar situation please contact me. My cell is 4438461582.
 
aProgDirector said:
Although somewhat off topic, if someone is focused enough you can usually find out who someone online is. As mentioned, information can be legally compelled from a message board. More commonly (as it's often easier), you get a bit devious. I bet if the USMLE sent the OP a message saying "Hey, we have this new practice Step III exam and we're interested in seeing how accurate it is. Are you interested in trying it out?", they would likely jump at the chance and happily tell them who they are. Police departments do this every once and awhile and it makes the news -- send a bunch of people who are wanted for failing to pay alimony/childcare (or something like that) a letter telling them that they've won a free TV and they just need to show up at a certain store at a certain time. And then they arrest them all.

Note that I just made all of this up. I have no idea how the OP was identified. They could have simply had an MDApps link, or a facebook link, etc.
Click to expand...


Sorry for your situation!

However as to Program Director's post, this action of "tricking" people should be illegal... I can't remember but I believe legally there may be a term for this... ?entrapment

I remember after my Step 2 CS case that same day, a physician with his license was outside the office of the exam center. He was asking me what type of questions were on the exam because his friend was giving the exam tomorrow. He also offered to give me a ride to the airport while we discussed the questions. He seemed like a pleasant enough person, however was really pushy to get something out of me.

However, I just had a bad feeling about the situation and refused a lot. He may have been one of those actors in the CS for all I knew.
 
Has anyone been charged with Irreguular Behavior?? And actually barred for any amount of time from taking any USMLE exam??
 
Elseguro said:
Has anyone been charged with Irreguular Behavior?? And actually barred for any amount of time from taking any USMLE exam??
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Yes.

I can guarantee you that, among the hundreds of thousands of people who have taken the USMLEs, at least one person has had this happen to them.
 
gutonc said:
Yes.

I can guarantee you that, among the hundreds of thousands of people who have taken the USMLEs, at least one person has had this happen to them.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing this is what the poster wants: "is there anyone here in this forum reading that this applies to or has an anecdote about someone's experience and could elaborate as I am curious about this?"

This is what I mean by people jumping in with delightfully short, yet condescending posts that add worse than nothing to a thread.
 
Crayola227 said:
I'm guessing this is what the poster wants: "is there anyone here in this forum reading that this applies to or has an anecdote about someone's experience and could elaborate as I am curious about this?"

This is what I mean by people jumping in with delightfully short, yet condescending posts that add worse than nothing to a thread.
Click to expand...
because long drawn out convoluted posts that make little sense are so much more helpful...
 
Well if u are one of those ppl could you message me plz?! Thx in advance =)
 
Crayola227 said:
I'm guessing this is what the poster wants: "is there anyone here in this forum reading that this applies to or has an anecdote about someone's experience and could elaborate as I am curious about this?"

This is what I mean by people jumping in with delightfully short, yet condescending posts that add worse than nothing to a thread.
Click to expand...
Thank u crayola... =)
 
If one wants to be anonymous, a Tor browser is a must. The NSA can probably track you, but it would take some effort.
 
Aryan123 said:
What was the outcome of this case?
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MTG-ThreadNecromancer_3198.jpg
 
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