Is a 3.7 too low for t20 schools?

[musicmasta1996]

I have a 3.7/522 (3.65 sGPA) from a top 10 school in a hard science major. Cookie-cutter ECs (~300 hr volunteering in a hospice, decent hours shadowing variety of specialties, 1st author poster at a national conference, possibly a 1st author paper in the works)

On the MSAR, most (if not all) t20s have 10th percentile GPAs above my GPA. Should I even bother applying to these schools? Some people have suggested that I do a post-bacc/SMP to bring my GPA up, but my family really cannot afford doing something like that.

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[bigeman101]

I would still apply to top 20 schools. Your MCAT makes up for a lower GPA and if your EC's are decent then you'll be fine.

 

[DubbiDoctor]

Apply to the top 20s but not only the top 20s.

 

[MedicalDoge]

I would go for it if I were you! I have been accepted to schools where my CARS score isn't even on the MSAR percentile range lol. I think your MCAT should make up for it. Just maybe try to spread it out among the top 20 and not go for all in the top 5

 

[pikagyu]

You're fine. Was in a similar boat and got T-20 IIs. Just make sure you apply non-T20s/state schools too for reassurance. Just because you get invited to interview doesn't necessarily translate to acceptances. But you might have better luck than I did!

 

[tbonez71]

Your stats won't hold you back, I had essentially the same and had a good deal of luck. What will matter now is differentiating yourself with good ECs, essays, and LOR.

 

[AquaticallyInclined]

I wouldn't recommend a post-bacc. I had a 3.68 cGPA/3.58 sGPA, 518 MCAT, and got 3 interviews and 2 acceptances at t-20 schools (still waiting on the third). I spent a lot of time on my ps and secondaries and took several gap years to work and volunteer as well.

 

[DrDwayneJohnson]

A post bacccc program isn't needed. Def don't waste money on one. Your essays are what will set you apart. I'd recommend ~20% of your schools be top 20s with the bulk being mid-range schools.

Edit: also top 20 schools tend to be research-focused. When you apply you'll only have a poster prez and no pubs. That's not super great, but a 1st author pub would be a nice update. I think your essays will have to be really reflective and do a good job of showing how your experiences have prepared you for medicine.

 

[DBC03]

I have a GPA below 3.5 and got one interview at a T20 this year, so if you have the money and energy to complete secondaries, I would throw your hat in the ring. Keep in mind that many schools are accepting many more students than their class size, and at least 10% of those students they accept have GPAs at or below the 10% threshold, so for many schools that can be anywhere from 20 to 50 students. I think the biggest issue is really the ECs - cookie cutter ECs are more likely to hold you back than the GPA.

 

[DubbiDoctor]

I have a GPA below 3.5 and got one interview at a T20 this year, so if you have the money and energy to complete secondaries, I would throw your hate in the ring. Keep in mind that many schools are accepting many more students than their class size, and at least 10% of those students they accept have GPAs at or below the 10% threshold, so for many schools that can be anywhere from 20 to 50 students. I think the biggest issue is really the ECs - cookie cutter ECs are more likely to hold you back than the GPA.

>throw your hate in the ring
haha

 

[DBC03]

>throw your hate in the ring
haha

I was like, "what does this person mean??" Then I saw my quote. Too funny! I'll fix it now!

EDIT: it's quite apparent that I can't spell.

 

[musicmasta1996]

Your GPA alone will not hold you back. You say that your ECs are cookie cutter (and where's your non-clinical volunteering?). Your GPA is also average. Your MCAT is good but it's the only thing that stands out about your application as you've described it here. If you are asking if you should include top 20s on a long list of "normal" schools, that's fine if you want to spend the money on it. But if you are shooting to go to a top tier school you need to significantly strengthen your app before you apply. Don't mean to be harsh, just realistic.

I have other significant ECs and I will probably make a WAMC thread later with more details, but suffice it to say I think I have plenty of non-clinical hours as well as a few other pretty unique/strong ECs. I am not overly concerned my ECs will keep me out, given that my premed advisor has said that they are pretty strong in relation to students typically from my school.

I am concerned because it doesn't seem like <3.8 GPAs get much love at t20s statistically and I'm worried that this stat alone will get my app in the shredder.

 

[DBC03]

I have other significant ECs and I will probably make a WAMC thread later with more details, but suffice it to say I think I have plenty of non-clinical hours as well as a few other pretty unique/strong ECs. I am not overly concerned my ECs will keep me out, given that my premed advisor has said that they are pretty strong in relation to students typically from my school.

I am concerned because it doesn't seem like <3.8 GPAs get much love at t20s statistically and I'm worried that this stat alone will get my app in the shredder.

Honestly, go for it. It’s a little extra time and money for apps, but nothing else to lose.


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[mdwannabepleaseacceptme]

I have other significant ECs and I will probably make a WAMC thread later with more details, but suffice it to say I think I have plenty of non-clinical hours as well as a few other pretty unique/strong ECs. I am not overly concerned my ECs will keep me out, given that my premed advisor has said that they are pretty strong in relation to students typically from my school.

I am concerned because it doesn't seem like <3.8 GPAs get much love at t20s statistically and I'm worried that this stat alone will get my app in the shredder.

I would recommend using WedgeDawg's applicant rating system to help guide your application. I was in a similar situation (and slightly lower MCAT), and I got a handful of t20 IIs and 3 t20 acceptances. Your GPA won't doom your application, but apply broadly and work hard on your PS and secondaries and hopefully you'll be pleasantly surprised! Best of luck !

 

[SuaveCardigans]

I am concerned because it doesn't seem like <3.8 GPAs get much love at t20s statistically and I'm worried that this stat alone will get my app in the shredder.

This, from my n=1, is simply not true. I went 3/5 on top 20 II with a 3.6/3.4, including two top tens.

Now I did have the ECs and MCAT for a top 20.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

This, from my n=1, is simply not true. I went 3/5 on top 20 II with a 3.6/3.4, including two top tens.

Now I did have the ECs and MCAT for a top 20.

What ECs and MCAT did you have - and for ECs, was it anything insane like Olympic athletics or military service, or a paper in a top journal like Nature?

 

[Goro]

I have a 3.7/522 (3.65 sGPA) from a top 10 school in a hard science major. Cookie-cutter ECs (~300 hr volunteering in a hospice, decent hours shadowing variety of specialties, 1st author poster at a national conference, possibly a 1st author paper in the works)

On the MSAR, most (if not all) t20s have 10th percentile GPAs above my GPA. Should I even bother applying to these schools? Some people have suggested that I do a post-bacc/SMP to bring my GPA up, but my family really cannot afford doing something like that.

A post-bac/SMP would be stupid.

Somebody has to be in the < 10th %ile; why not you?

Hedge your best and apply to a few (ex: Harvard OR Yale OR Stanford; AND JHU OR Vandy OR NYU) and a decent range of Keck and Einstein class schools.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

Can you comment on whether that <10th percentile GPA is mostly filled with URMs, veterans, people with first-author publications in top journals, and generally unusual and awe-inspiring life stories?

 

[foregoingfun]

I would hope that the rigor of an undergraduate institution would be taken into account especially with such exceptional scores.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

True - I have heard from some that, say, a Chemical Engineering major at MIT or Caltech will get a little leeway - maybe 0.1 points or so, on their GPA. Others say a 3.7 from MIT in astrophysics is treated the same way as a 3.7 from THE Ohio State University in Underwater Basketweaving.

 

[foregoingfun]

I've heard Reed College in Oregon is known throughout medical schools for their rigor. Explaining why 70% of their applicants with a GPA of 2.9 and above are still accepted.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

I've heard Reed College in Oregon is known throughout medical schools for their rigor. Explaining why 70% of their applicants with a GPA of 2.9 and above are still accepted.

Maybe. It could also be that Reed College applicants shine in other areas: Peace Corps service, starting nonprofits, and 515+ MCATs might all be quite common for Reed's student body.

 

[foregoingfun]

Agreed. I'm sure there is a correlation between undergraduate rigor and average MCATs, thus balancing out application discrepancies.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

And schools like Caltech and MIT probably get more of a prestige/rigor boost than Reed, all else being equal.

 

[MDPedigree]

I've heard Reed College in Oregon is known throughout medical schools for their rigor. Explaining why 70% of their applicants with a GPA of 2.9 and above are still accepted.

Maybe. It could also be that Reed College applicants shine in other areas: Peace Corps service, starting nonprofits, and 515+ MCATs might all be quite common for Reed's student body.

It might have to do with being the college that Steve Jobs dropped out of. If the greatest innovative mind of our generation couldn't last there, then you surely are welcome to any medical school if you did.

 

[foregoingfun]

I believe it is more related to the overall mission of the school regarding the focus of learning opposed to the sole objective of receiving a grade. To quote their website, "The average GPA for all students in 2016–17 was 3.10 on a 4.00 scale. This figure has increased by less than 0.15 of a grade point in the past 32 years. During that period, only eleven students have graduated from Reed with perfect 4.00 grade averages." (sorry, cannot link yet...) Similarly, "students are evaluated rigorously, and semester grades are filed with the registrar, but by tradition, students do not receive standard grade reports" further indicating that Reed is overall more focused on the academic curiosity and learning through constructive criticism and extensive comments from their instructors. To reference the Washington Post, "A Yale report found that 62 percent of all Yale grades are A or A-minus. According to a 2013 article in the Harvard Crimson, the median grade at Harvard was an A-minus , while the most common grade was an A." Certainly, there is a disparity when 91% of the students graduate with honors. Now one could argue that such correlation is due to the exceptional cohort of students, however, the cutoff for honors is only at 50% of the entire student body.

Here is an unlinked link to an interesting trend over the years. ( gradeinflation*com) If you scroll down to the third graph, I think you'd understand my perspective.

Thanks for your insight! Let me know what you think.