Is a DO looked down upon?

[harnabra01]

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House did med school at hopkins, got kicked out and went to U of Michigan. That said, House was about to hire an old dude that didn't even have a medical degree. He doesn't give a damn.

not as a "doctor" tho...where did the show say he went to UOM? Im surprised I missed this...

 

[as1212559]

It's not really frowned upon. With all due respect:

DO is to Reebok as MD is to Under Armour/Nike.

I think it's just that brand name people want. Do you think that people would watch House if the name was House, D.O.?

Again, no disrespect.

lol at underarmour. that crap is busch league. DNP school for sure.

PA school is Adidas. Pod school is Russell.



















Midlevel creep: coming to a Dick's Sporting Goods near you spring 2013.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I feel a moral obligation to let everyone know that starting a new thread about this beaten-to-death topic is beyond ridiculous.

I approve of your morals. +1

 

[DrBumblebee]

not as a "doctor" tho...where did the show say he went to UOM? Im surprised I missed this...

In the show, Dr. House was kicked out of John Hopkins for cheating on an exam. He continued his medical studies at the University of Michigan, where he met Cuddy.

In an episode from 2005, Humpty Dumpty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humpty_Dumpty_(House)), Cuddy says that she and House went to Michigan.

 

[Sephy]

 

[SamyLSF]

The D.O. award, is a remedial six month course, after-which the recipient can proceed to a duly authorized nail tech, aesthetician, or massage therapy class. Occasionally a D.O. recipient will rise above other D.O. certificate holders and find gainful employment at any of a number of chiropractic centers.

If you enable the text to speech feature of your computer, allow the device to further your understanding, because you may very well be a: DODO

lolololol

 

[Jamie561]

ehh how about someone who had good stats but with a severe downward GPA trend due to severe psychological/ personal circumstances.

This person nonetheless has terrible stats and is therefore not competitive for MD

 

[turtle1234]

DO's are looked down upon. DO's are people who could not get into MD programs so of course people look down upon them. It is a psychological thing because of the DO. So, someone who is a foreign graduate gets an MD, and thus is likely to get more respect than a DO.

If you do not believe me, look at the top residency programs at Mayo, Anderson, Sloan, Sini, Beth, Yale, Hopkins, etc. No DO's as residents or fellows, even though 1/5 are DO's, because they are looked down upon.

 

[FutureOncologist]

DO's are looked down upon. DO's are people who could not get into MD programs so of course people look down upon them. It is a psychological thing because of the DO. So, someone who is a foreign graduate gets an MD, and thus is likely to get more respect than a DO.

If you do not believe me, look at the top residency programs at Mayo, Anderson, Sloan, Sini, Beth, Yale, Hopkins, etc. No DO's as residents or fellows, even though 1/5 are DO's, because they are looked down upon.

1. Holy Necrobump, Batman!
2. Thank you, premed, for informing others about medical schools (of which, you have no experience in taking any classes, exams, boards, or matched into a residency program.) Top-notch post.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

With all being said and done, I will choose the MD school because, personally, I value the opportunity to have classmates that are much more academically capable than me. In high school, I went to one of the best schools out there and I was average but I sure as hell pushed myself because I felt part of something bigger than myself and after I graduated I realized how much I had accomplished.

See, I'm excited about attending a DO school because I hope to meet other artsy/entrepreneurial/nontraditional/creative peeps who've had some experience out in the working world.

 

[Hospitalized]

The doctor's I work with in the ER do not even know the initials that follow their colleague's names, unless they are a mid-level provider (NP, PA). 100% serious. DO's and MD's are both high level providers and that's that.

 

[Goro]

Mayo has taken KCUMB grads, among others. Get your facts straight. My schools has gotten grads into JHU.

DO's are looked down upon. DO's are people who could not get into MD programs so of course people look down upon them. It is a psychological thing because of the DO. So, someone who is a foreign graduate gets an MD, and thus is likely to get more respect than a DO.

If you do not believe me, look at the top residency programs at Mayo, Anderson, Sloan, Sini, Beth, Yale, Hopkins, etc. No DO's as residents or fellows, even though 1/5 are DO's, because they are looked down upon.

 

[turtle1234]

1. Holy Necrobump, Batman!
2. Thank you, premed, for informing others about medical schools (of which, you have no experience in taking any classes, exams, boards, or matched into a residency program.) Top-notch post.

Mayo has taken KCUMB grads, among others. Get your facts straight. My schools has gotten grads into JHU.

Friends, I have a family member who is a medical director, supervises fellows, residents. I am just saying what he told me. In private doctors look down upon DO's.

I have a low GPA so I will likely have to go to a DO. If you don't mind me asking, did those DO's who went to Mayo and Hopkins go into family medicine or internal medicine? I suspect that is the case.

I don't see any DO's in dermatology, plastic surgery, ophthalmology, neuro-surgery, cardiology.

Residencies are based largely on USMLE scores, so maybe DO's--who overall have less intelligence than MD's--get lower scores.

 

[NontradCA]

I am black, have a tattoo on my neck and am a DO student if that tells you anything.

 

[FutureOncologist]

Friends, I have a family member who is a medical director, supervises fellows, residents. I am just saying what he told me. In private doctors look down upon DO's.

I have a low GPA so I will likely have to go to a DO. If you don't mind me asking, did those DO's who went to Mayo and Hopkins go into family medicine or internal medicine? I suspect that is the case.

I don't see any DO's in dermatology, plastic surgery, ophthalmology, neuro-surgery, cardiology.

Residencies are based largely on USMLE scores, so maybe DO's--who overall have less intelligence than MD's--get lower scores.

 

[deleted407021]

Friends, I have a family member who is a medical director, supervises fellows, residents. I am just saying what he told me. In private doctors look down upon DO's.

I have a low GPA so I will likely have to go to a DO. If you don't mind me asking, did those DO's who went to Mayo and Hopkins go into family medicine or internal medicine? I suspect that is the case.

I don't see any DO's in dermatology, plastic surgery, ophthalmology, neuro-surgery, cardiology.

Residencies are based largely on USMLE scores, so maybe DO's--who overall have less intelligence than MD's--get lower scores.

<--- also invented one of the first artificial disks

 

[Goro]

:troll:

Friends, I have a family member who is a medical director, supervises fellows, residents. I am just saying what he told me. In private doctors look down upon DO's.

I have a low GPA so I will likely have to go to a DO. If you don't mind me asking, did those DO's who went to Mayo and Hopkins go into family medicine or internal medicine? I suspect that is the case.

I don't see any DO's in dermatology, plastic surgery, ophthalmology, neuro-surgery, cardiology.

Residencies are based largely on USMLE scores, so maybe DO's--who overall have less intelligence than MD's--get lower scores.

 

[turtle1234]

:troll:

I was just wondering, what residencies those OD's went into at Mayo and JHU? Why is that a troll question?

If I understand correctly, a good USMLE score, and good grades and research--even from a DO school--can get you into a top residency program in a competitive field. I have read that 25% of DO's fail to get into residency. What happens to these people? When you choose DO, you have to keep that in mind. The number of residence slots are decreasing.

The MCAT is very much correlated with IQ, especially the verbal section. Just saying.

 

[Aloft085]

So I just realized that there are two different programs for Medical School: MD and DO. I always hear "MD" and not "DO." Is DO a less respected version of the MD? Is it a remedial degree? What is the difference? I am striving to get an MD but my GPA is only 3.5. Could someone elaborate?

Well, I'll put it this way: My stats according to AAMC gave me only a 50% chance of acceptance into an MD program. In spite of this, I chose not to apply to any DO schools. I don't believe that DO's are an inferior breed of doctor, but I do believe that the perception is that lesser-qualified candidates generally go to DO schools. I, personally, did not want to be perceived as a lesser-qualified candidate for the rest of my career. Most regular people generally equate medical doctor with MD anyway, so it also reduces the confusion and explaining.

However, the consensus seems to be that it does not matter at all in the professional post-residency world. You'll get paid the same, your co-workers won't care, and generally no one will give a crap. Honestly though, I don't really get why DO degrees are still a thing. It seems to me like the original justification is outdated. Why don't we just all have MD degrees now? It seems to be just a way for schools to stay out from under the AAMC's thumb at this point.

 

[feeling-dizzy]

I was just wondering, what residencies those OD's went into at Mayo and JHU? Why is that a troll question?

If I understand correctly, a good USMLE score, and good grades and research--even from a DO school--can get you into a top residency program in a competitive field. I have read that 25% of DO's fail to get into residency. What happens to these people? When you choose DO, you have to keep that in mind. The number of residence slots are decreasing.

The MCAT is very much correlated with IQ, especially the verbal section. Just saying.

Again another pathetic "turtle" who feels so insecure about himself to feel the need to stomp on other ppl to feel good. FYI, not every MD programs are prestigious. So many MD programs only accept IS applicants even though those IS applicants score are lower than DO applicants average. Touro CA MCAT ave has been 30.5 last year and expect to raise this year, which I believe is on-par with or higher than some MD programs in the south. So MCAT score is not everything; DO students not necessary cannot get into MD just because of lower MCAT. They may choose to go to DO school close to home or OOS applicants (from California for example)

 

[D4C]

I was just wondering, what residencies those OD's went into at Mayo and JHU? Why is that a troll question?

If I understand correctly, a good USMLE score, and good grades and research--even from a DO school--can get you into a top residency program in a competitive field. I have read that 25% of DO's fail to get into residency. What happens to these people? When you choose DO, you have to keep that in mind. The number of residence slots are decreasing.

The MCAT is very much correlated with IQ, especially the verbal section. Just saying.

Your troll bait is too good.

for the first bolded

for the second bolded

If you get this information from your father, the illustrious and infallible program director that he is, you should probably stop listening to him and I suggest reading the tabloids as they are likely to give you more accurate information.

 

[jbuc1081]

What does it matter how people view DO's? Seeing as how medicine is a humanistic and philanthropic career geared towards healing sick people, questions like "are DO's looked down upon?" mean about as much as North Korea. Yeah, Kim Jong Un may look down on us Americans, but he's still a dick that no one takes seriously.

 

[FutureOncologist]

I genuinely respect the DO philosophy of "treat the patient, not the disease." I believe a lot of DO programs teach students a lot on how to better the person (not just in OMM.) A few DOs in practice that I worked with in rotations create a great rapport with patients because s/he went beyond the whole "you need to smoke less and take this medicine" and worked with nutritionists, PTs, etc. to make the patients' life better.

Just my (n=1) opinion.

 

[Bea5T]

DO's are looked down upon. DO's are people who could not get into MD programs so of course people look down upon them. It is a psychological thing because of the DO. So, someone who is a foreign graduate gets an MD, and thus is likely to get more respect than a DO.

If you do not believe me, look at the top residency programs at Mayo, Anderson, Sloan, Sini, Beth, Yale, Hopkins, etc. No DO's as residents or fellows, even though 1/5 are DO's, because they are looked down upon.

glad the Asian parent could make it

 

[W19]

I am black, have a tattoo on my neck and am a DO student if that tells you anything.

I thought the tattoo was in your face--like a Mike tyson type of thing!

 

[67552931811]

I was just wondering, what residencies those OD's went into at Mayo and JHU? Why is that a troll question?

If I understand correctly, a good USMLE score, and good grades and research--even from a DO school--can get you into a top residency program in a competitive field. I have read that 25% of DO's fail to get into residency. What happens to these people? When you choose DO, you have to keep that in mind. The number of residence slots are decreasing.

The MCAT is very much correlated with IQ, especially the verbal section. Just saying.

Damn, optometrists are doing medical residencies now: crazy!

Lol, no no.

Ugh....... wut?

 

[Fedekz]

The general consensus is that they are equal, and DO is not looked down upon vs MD.

I'm considering both MD and DO schools, and don't have anything against DO's, and feel they are equal ... I felt it was important to include this before my next statement.

My father has been a physician for 41 years (University of Washington C/O 1973), so his viewpoint may be skewed, but he absolutely does not respect DO's compared to MD's. He feels they are places where people go if they aren't smart enough to get accepted into a MD school. Before he retired and started working part time he was the president of a fairly large hospital (with residencies) and always griped about having DO's there.

I'm absolutely not saying he is correct, in fact I'm considering DO schools ... just sharing my experience with MD vs DO perception. They may very well be equal, but there will still be "haters" everywhere.

I also love getting him all worked up when I tell him I'm thinking about X DO school lol.

 

[jbuc1081]

The general consensus is that they are equal, and DO is not looked down upon vs MD.

I'm considering both MD and DO schools, and don't have anything against DO's, and feel they are equal ... I felt it was important to include this before my next statement.

My father has been a physician for 41 years (University of Washington C/O 1973), so his viewpoint may be skewed, but he absolutely does not respect DO's compared to MD's. He feels they are places where people go if they aren't smart enough to get accepted into a MD school. Before he retired and started working part time he was the president of a fairly large hospital (with residencies) and always griped about having DO's there.

I'm absolutely not saying he is correct, in fact I'm considering DO schools ... just sharing my experience with MD vs DO perception. They may very well be equal, but there will still be "haters" everywhere.

I also love getting him all worked up when I tell him I'm thinking about X DO school lol.

Does he say "get off my lawn!" every time you mention DO school?

 

[Fedekz]

Does he say "get off my lawn!" every time you mention DO school?

Just about XD!

 

[Goro]

The only people who look down upon DOs are ignorant pre-meds and elderly MDs.

Even among the pre-Allo forum, I've noticed a huge increase in respect for the DO pathway over the past few years..

The general consensus is that they are equal, and DO is not looked down upon vs MD.

I'm considering both MD and DO schools, and don't have anything against DO's, and feel they are equal ... I felt it was important to include this before my next statement.

My father has been a physician for 41 years (University of Washington C/O 1973), so his viewpoint may be skewed, but he absolutely does not respect DO's compared to MD's. He feels they are places where people go if they aren't smart enough to get accepted into a MD school. Before he retired and started working part time he was the president of a fairly large hospital (with residencies) and always griped about having DO's there.

I'm absolutely not saying he is correct, in fact I'm considering DO schools ... just sharing my experience with MD vs DO perception. They may very well be equal, but there will still be "haters" everywhere.

I also love getting him all worked up when I tell him I'm thinking about X DO school lol.

 

[JimmyB123]

Friends, I have a family member who is a medical director, supervises fellows, residents. I am just saying what he told me. In private doctors look down upon DO's.

I have a low GPA so I will likely have to go to a DO. If you don't mind me asking, did those DO's who went to Mayo and Hopkins go into family medicine or internal medicine? I suspect that is the case.

I don't see any DO's in dermatology, plastic surgery, ophthalmology, neuro-surgery, cardiology.

Residencies are based largely on USMLE scores, so maybe DO's--who overall have less intelligence than MD's--get lower scores.

Lol omg

also cardiology doesn't fit in that group duh

 

[JimmyB123]

I was just wondering, what residencies those OD's went into at Mayo and JHU? Why is that a troll question?

If I understand correctly, a good USMLE score, and good grades and research--even from a DO school--can get you into a top residency program in a competitive field. I have read that 25% of DO's fail to get into residency. What happens to these people? When you choose DO, you have to keep that in mind. The number of residence slots are decreasing.

The MCAT is very much correlated with IQ, especially the verbal section. Just saying.

Residency slots arent decreasing fyi

Ok I'm done

 

[keevwu]

I'm applying to both MD and DO programs this year. I got into a DO program near my home, and I have two waitlists to MD programs. If I get admissions off these waitlists, I still wouldn't be 100% set on leaving my DO program to go to one of these MD programs for many reasons (family/friends, support system, rotation opportunities in CA). My brother's an MD and he told me to pick the DO program, even if I get off the MD waitlists, because its my cheapest and most established option.

From my experiences, the only people who look down on DOs are ******* pre-meds who are in love with the glamorization that "MD" letters bring and old MD's who are on the brink of retiring. I spoke to a psychiatrist MD (about 70-80 years old) about DO programs, and he told me to reapply if I don't get into MD programs because "DO programs are doctors of osteopathic medicine. OSTEO. BONE. They focus on bones."

In general, I think it depends upon the individual. If the MD letters are really that important to you, and you need it to boost your ego, then go MD. However, you are most likely going into medicine for the wrong reasons.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

I spoke to a psychiatrist MD (about 70-80 years old) about DO programs, and he told me to reapply if I don't get into MD programs because "DO programs are doctors of osteopathic medicine. OSTEO. BONE. They focus on bones."

LOL! That's what the woman at the hotel front desk in Alabama said. I politely explained to her that DOs weren't bone doctors, and she was happy to learn the truth.

We just need more edumacation. 😀 We should all start blogging about osteopathic medicine. Get to it, my friends! We have the power to shape future perceptions about DOs. Let's do this.

 

[sliceofbread136]

1. You will be looked down on for having a DO degree. Doctors, patients, nurses, everyone is looking for a reason to think less of you. Being DO or FMG just makes it too easy.
2. MD will always be better than DO for MD residencies, especially at competitive programs.

Your degree likely won't make that much of a difference in your career, but I think it's safe to say MD>DO. A good analogy would be comparing a top tier MD to a low tier MD.

 

[LilEngineThatCould]

Funny how DO schools are looked down on by some ppl for the fact that their applicants tend to be lower stats or used by some pre-meds as back ups. But I know a few ppl who applied both MD and DO because of low or borderline stats who couldn't get into any DO schools but got into some MDs schools. Where's the logic in that? lol regardless, this whole thread is so

 

[Low Flow]

There will always be someone out there who thinks they're "better" than you. Some jackass out there at a high-tier MD school will look down on someone from a lower-tier MD school, just as someone at an MD school will look down at a DO grad. It's sad that this is an issue, but careers like this attract people who are only concerned with the prestige.

 

[TheLeadSeed]

 

[feeling-dizzy]

I'm applying to both MD and DO programs this year. I got into a DO program near my home, and I have two waitlists to MD programs. If I get admissions off these waitlists, I still wouldn't be 100% set on leaving my DO program to go to one of these MD programs for many reasons (family/friends, support system, rotation opportunities in CA). My brother's an MD and he told me to pick the DO program, even if I get off the MD waitlists, because its my cheapest and most established option.

From my experiences, the only people who look down on DOs are ******* pre-meds who are in love with the glamorization that "MD" letters bring and old MD's who are on the brink of retiring. I spoke to a psychiatrist MD (about 70-80 years old) about DO programs, and he told me to reapply if I don't get into MD programs because "DO programs are doctors of osteopathic medicine. OSTEO. BONE. They focus on bones."

In general, I think it depends upon the individual. If the MD letters are really that important to you, and you need it to boost your ego, then go MD. However, you are most likely going into medicine for the wrong reasons.

It is worth to point it out that med school competition increases every year. MD acceptance score/standard 30 yrs ago may not even be competitive for DO school now. Heck, a 30 MCAT that is usually competitive back then; now as a California resident, I can't even get any MD interview.

 

[JimmyB123]

It is worth to point it out that med school competition increases every year. MD acceptance score/standard 30 yrs ago may not even be competitive for DO school now. Heck, a 30 MCAT that is usually competitive back then; now as a California resident, I can't even get any MD interview.

A 30 MCAT is a dying breed, not just in Cali

 

[sliceofbread136]

Funny how DO schools are looked down on by some ppl for the fact that their applicants tend to be lower stats or used by some pre-meds as back ups. But I know a few ppl who applied both MD and DO because of low or borderline stats who couldn't get into any DO schools but got into some MDs schools. Where's the logic in that? lol regardless, this whole thread is so

Because you are comparing tip top DO with bottom of the barrel MDs. As a whole DO does have lower stats and is often used as a backup. Based on that generality people will make assumptions about you.

 

[JimmyB123]

Funny how DO schools are looked down on by some ppl for the fact that their applicants tend to be lower stats or used by some pre-meds as back ups. But I know a few ppl who applied both MD and DO because of low or borderline stats who couldn't get into any DO schools but got into some MDs schools. Where's the logic in that? lol regardless, this whole thread is so

I definitely had borderline numbers (3.7/32) but all my luck came on the DO side. That's why I hate these generalizations because I know that numbers wise, I'm better than about half of the MD matriculants.

I'd say about 25% of DO matriculants have numbers in my range yet they also get grouped in the "didn't have stats for MD" category. Things like ECs, LORs, or pure luck were probably lacking in our case - and yeah, we all know how those non-metric aspects of your application indicate how "smart" you are 🙂:sarcasm:🙂. That's why I don't care if people ever look down on me because of my degree. Because for me the reason I didn't get into an MD school was probably because of a mediocre letter or average personal statement or not enough volunteering. Those are such trivial factors for me.

 

[derpina]

I think it's a highly personal question, one than can be answered with: "If you were accepted to an MD school and DO school of EQUAL prestige, which would you pick?"

I've found positing this question to people, majority saying they'd pick MD, some fidgeting and saying they don't care, but NONE thus far saying DO. All things being equal, the DO doesn't attract premeds in my experience.

 

[Aloft085]

Because for me the reason I didn't get into an MD school was probably because of a mediocre letter or average personal statement or not enough volunteering. Those are such trivial factors for me.

I totally agree with this sentiment.

 

[deleted436726]

There will always be someone out there who thinks they're "better" than you. Some jackass out there at a high-tier MD school will look down on someone from a lower-tier MD school, just as someone at an MD school will look down at a DO grad. It's sad that this is an issue, but careers like this attract people who are only concerned with the prestige.

As a solution to this, I propose that all medical schools add a longitudinal rotation as a garbage man/sanitation engineer.

 

[FutureOncologist]

In 10-20 years, DOs, in comparison to MDs, will be looked upon like seeing a DDS vs. a DMD for a dentist: no one will care and will just expect someone to help with your orthodontic needs.

It is worth to point it out that med school competition increases every year. MD acceptance score/standard 30 yrs ago may not even be competitive for DO school now. Heck, a 30 MCAT that is usually competitive back then; now as a California resident, I can't even get any MD interview.

"More and more people apply every year. But the amount of competitive applicants stay the same" ~gyngyn. Hell, my school almost had a problem last year (what I've heard from the adcoms) finding enough people to fill the 140-160 people needed for the class. Not enough quality applicants. I know that it's only one school and it doesn't really represent every public school, but just because more people apply doesn't mean med schools get more quality applicants.

 

[sundancing]

I interviewed at 3 DO schools and 4 MD schools. Thus far, I was accepted to all 3 DO schools and on the MD front, I got two waitlists and a rejection (one interview is still upcoming). I'm starting to think that I'm just meant to be at a DO school and that's just fine with me. According to the famous LizzyM chart I had ~70% chance of being admitted to an MD school, and while I know it could still happen, I will still be perfectly fine with going to a DO school.

Other people's perception of where I go to school don't matter to me. I know that I won't be any less qualified as a DO and that's all that matters to me. It also helps that I don't want a particularly competitive specialty lol.

 

[FutureOncologist]

I think it's a highly personal question, one than can be answered with: "If you were accepted to an MD school and DO school of EQUAL prestige, which would you pick?"

I've found positing this question to people, majority saying they'd pick MD, some fidgeting and saying they don't care, but NONE thus far saying DO. All things being equal, the DO doesn't attract premeds in my experience.

If people knew that you had the same opportunity for clinical rotations as the same-tier MD school, they would probably change to "it doesn't matter." The only problem that DO students really face is getting the quality clinical rotations to get out of the whole "I have to go into PC with my degree." If you get into a DO school in an area/state with a lot of hospitals, then you have a great chance to match into a more-specialized residency program. The age of the DO school also matters. Places like PCOM, AZCOM, Touro Med, and Goro's school has had great match lists (at least that's what Goro tells us 😉.)

Once the DO school has established itself in the state with creating great and competent physicians, then that DO school is a great option for you.

 

[Aloft085]

I interviewed at 3 DO schools and 4 MD schools. Thus far, I was accepted to all 3 DO schools and on the MD front, I got two waitlists and a rejection (one interview is still upcoming). I'm starting to think that I'm just meant to be at a DO school and that's just fine with me. According to the famous LizzyM chart I had ~70% chance of being admitted to an MD school, and while I know it could still happen, I will still be perfectly fine with going to a DO school.

Other people's perception of where I go to school don't matter to me. I know that I won't be any less qualified as a DO and that's all that matters to me. It also helps that I don't want a particularly competitive specialty lol.

I think your mistake was applying to only four MD schools. I think the average is closer to 20. I sent secondaries to 19 schools, received interview offers from four. That's with 50% chance of acceptance according to AAMC.

 

[Beargryllz]

I think your mistake was applying to only four MD schools. I think the average is closer to 20

I applied to 31 schools and interviewed at 2

You don't automatically get an interview just because you apply