Is being in Phi Beta Kappa REALLY that impressive?

[Cotterpin]

That's the thing about Phi Beta Kappa. If you do a quick google search, you can find a bunch of articles (WSJ, NYT, etc.) about how kids these days don't realize how prestigious PBK is, so they figure it's just like all the other garbage honor societies looking for money and they ignore the invitation.

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[Cotterpin]

@Cotterpin Soo....can you actually expand on what makes PBK so "prestigious?" How is it any different from all the "other garbage honor societies?" Everything you just said sounds rather pretentious. "Hey guys I'm in PBK it's the only prestigious honor society out there all the others are garbage."

I didn't say it was the "only" prestigious honor society. But there a bunch of garbage ones out there.
Anyway, you can read about it yourself:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phi_Beta_Kappa_Society
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Phi_Beta_Kappa_members_by_year_of_admission
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB113107309946088181
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/05/26/n...a-key-being-turned-down-by-many-honorees.html

 

[md-2020]

@Cotterpin Soo....can you actually expand on what makes PBK so "prestigious?" How is it any different from all the "other garbage honor societies?" Everything you just said sounds rather pretentious. "Hey guys I'm in PBK it's the only prestigious honor society out there all the others are garbage."

PBK is the preeminent academic honor society int he United States. End of story.

Can it be elitist? Sure. It probably doesn't matter much in medicine, but it definitely helps in some other fields. When I was interviewing at a BB investment bank, a senior partner came in and said something like, "Oh hey, you're the PBK member from [insert school here]! I'm an alum, c/o [something old]." Boom. Got an offer.

 

[Cotterpin]

Don't get me wrong, I was in it too (mostly because I needed something to fill the "honors" section of my resume, but to go as far as saying "all other garbage honors societies" is overboard. @md-2020 you gave your anecdotal evidence but it fails to follow through on logic. If the guy hiring you was a member of XYZ honor society, the outcome would have been exactly the same. It had nothing to do with you being in PBK in particular; it only had to do with you being in the same honor society he was in.

Again, you are misreading my post. I did not say that any honor society that isn't PBK is garbage. I said that there are other honor societies out there that are garbage. Read those articles I linked you to. They can explain it better than I.

 

[whitemagic]

@Cotterpin, must have been a misunderstanding on my part. Will do!

 

[md-2020]

Don't get me wrong, I was in it too (mostly because I needed something to fill the "honors" section of my resume, but to go as far as saying "all other garbage honors societies" is overboard. @md-2020 you gave your anecdotal evidence but it fails to follow through on logic. If the guy hiring you was a member of XYZ honor society, the outcome would have been exactly the same. It had nothing to do with you being in PBK in particular; it only had to do with you being in the same honor society he was in (which happened to be PBK)

True.

I think any honor society is great. But PBK, like AOA for med students, is the "industry standard," no?

 

[PhillyMed777]

Look, if you are PBK and Summa at a decent school, clearly you did really well. That's all it is. on your resume, throw out the GPA, and throw in PBK and summa cum laude.

It also makes for having a sweet looking wall of awards and for a sharp looking resume. If you add AOA with those, looks even better. Just proves an unbeaten path of excellence.

Also, its not exactly like GPA. latin honors are about being at a certain percentile (rather than raw numbers, as averages vary across the country), and PBK is about getting good grades in a variety of subjects and having a few faculty nominate you

 

[DrDorianTurkleton]

I got an invite to PKP but I was hoping for the PBK from my school. Like many have said, it is definitely a reinforcement if a third-part organization backed up by faculty at your school says "look, this kid has got the grades and background to be at the top." On the other hand, not getting in to PBK is not a mark of being "not at the top." I was not elected and was still top 10% in my graduating class and had a hard science/liberal arts/service/research background (which is what I thought our school based it off of). PBK is cool, but not the end all be all; if you're in it that's awesome (and also I'm jealous of you) and if not, I wont scoff at you either.

 

[spaingirl17]

It honestly probably doesn't make a huge difference in terms of med school admissions, but can definitely help get your foot in the door when applying for jobs (ex. during a gap year, for example). Every school has different requirements, but I suppose the biggest honor is that your professors felt you were in the top 10% of your class in terms of the whole package. For my school, it is a big deal and is truly an honor for being well-versed in "liberal arts" I guess you could say. Most of the inductees had high GPAs, but were were double majors or minored in something pretty different from their major (ex. Bio and Spanish, Bio and Music..). We also had to take a certain number of foreign language classes, and had to be heavily involved in something other than academics, whether that was community service, athletics, fine arts, campus leadership, etc. So yeah, it's pretty cool but it's probably not going to hurt you nor help any of us members.

 

[OSUkid]

I think I may have gotten an email from them, and deleted it.

 

[StudyLater]

I've been a member for years, but I haven't actually done anything with them or anything.

Do I get a cookie?

 

[OSUkid]

I've been a member for years, but I haven't actually done anything with them or anything.

Do I get a cookie?

your not a member, what year are you in school. Exactly thought so, no cookie tubs

 

[Goro]

"Is being in Phi Beta Kappa REALLY that impressive?"

No.

As to the bolded part, life's not fair.

I always hear about how impressive it is when adcoms see that an applicant is a member of PBK, but I mean, isn't it all relative? I had a cumulative GPA of 3.86 as an undergraduate at an Ivy League college, and I wasn't elected to become a member of PBK. However, I know some people who go to much lower ranked schools (as in US News ranked 50+) who were able to be a member of PBK with lower GPAs than me. Shouldn't this be taken into consideration; the fact that people who go to lower schools are probably competing against a population of students that are overall not as "intelligent" as top tier schools? I don't know, it just seems a bit unfair to me when adcoms always mention how impressed they are by someone who is PBK, but honestly, I feel it shouldn't carry as much weight as it does. Thoughts?

 

[Doug Underhill]

Ultimately, you have no control over what impresses a given adcom member. This is why it pays to be a well-rounded applicant: you can appeal to a wide-variety of adcoms.

 

[Dirtyclothes]

yea, i really dont think it matters tbh

 

[TexasSurgeon]

Dude, I didn't read all these posts but here's what you should do:

Join the organization.

It's a small fee compared to the amount you'd spend a Starbucks in a year (or in my case, chipotle in a month LOL)

Interestingly enough, I got an invite to join Phi Kappa Phi which is the 2nd most prestigious after PBK (we don't have PBK at our school). I came on SDN looking for these same answers and couldn't get a decisive answer. I joined it and while it hasn't done anything for me, it's not like I'm losing anything but a little bit of money.

 

[DingoPingo]

Well, PBK isn't really top 10%, as it has some huge bull**** disqualifiers including not learning a new language in college, testing out of doing any college math, or knowing what you want to study from the beginning and only taking classes that count towards majors. The real king is Summa Cum Laude for most universities

Haha this describes me perfectly. F*** college math.

Edit: Oh wait, read this incorrectly. This is wrong because I didn't take college math and I was invited. I also didn't learn new language in college itself. I also knew what I wanted to study at the beginning. I know you're just joking though.

 

[efle]

Haha this describes me perfectly. F*** college math.

Edit: Oh wait, read this incorrectly. This is wrong because I didn't take college math and I was invited. I also didn't learn new language in college itself. I also knew what I wanted to study at the beginning. I know you're just joking though.

Not really joking. I think what they look for, and how strictly, varies by school. Nationally their rule is only 10% of a class nominated, but they're all about showing some love for humanities/liberal arts. For example my school states:

"In making its nominations, the Selection Committee reviews each record looking for evidence of both breadth and depth of interest in the liberal arts, as demonstrated in a student's work at Washington University. One record, for example, might be for a 4.00 science major who shows few interests outside the sciences--just the minimal set of distribution requirements. Such a student is clearly outstanding and deserves special recognition of some kind, but he or she probably would not be nominated"

Well, I guarantee you there are some seriously brilliant people here who knew they wanted to study Chem/Neuro/Physics/Etc and only took the required non-science classes. So while PBK elects only ~7% of senior students each year here, it's hard to say it's the top 7%.

Latins is a similar deal, in order to be eligible for it in some departments (including Bio where most premeds are) you have to do a ~40-60 page research thesis which not a lot of people do. So Summa Cum Laude puts you in the top 15%...of heavily research-oriented students.

In the end honors are cool and all, but if someone can come in loving science, make a 4.00 studying science material, and get no PBK or Latins, I become skeptical of just how impressive the honors are. Schools that base it just off GPA are much more legit, imo.

All that said, I'm still forking over the $75 for my invite, because some people like to see it on your resume/assume it just means you were near the top of your class.

 

[KungFuPanda123]

Not really joking. I think what they look for, and how strictly, varies by school. Nationally their rule is only 10% of a class nominated, but they're all about showing some love for humanities/liberal arts. For example my school states:

"In making its nominations, the Selection Committee reviews each record looking for evidence of both breadth and depth of interest in the liberal arts, as demonstrated in a student's work at Washington University. One record, for example, might be for a 4.00 science major who shows few interests outside the sciences--just the minimal set of distribution requirements. Such a student is clearly outstanding and deserves special recognition of some kind, but he or she probably would not be nominated"

Well, I guarantee you there are some seriously brilliant people here who knew they wanted to study Chem/Neuro/Physics/Etc and only took the required non-science classes. So while PBK elects only ~7% of senior students each year here, it's hard to say it's the top 7%.

Latins is a similar deal, in order to be eligible for it in some departments (including Bio where most premeds are) you have to do a ~40-60 page research thesis which not a lot of people do. So Summa Cum Laude puts you in the top 15%...of heavily research-oriented students.

In the end honors are cool and all, but if someone can come in loving science, make a 4.00 studying science material, and get no PBK or Latins, I become skeptical of just how impressive the honors are. Schools that base it just off GPA are much more legit, imo.

All that said, I'm still forking over the $75 for my invite, because some people like to see it on your resume/assume it just means you were near the top of your class.

PBK and Summa Cum Laude are both extremely prestigious. Magna Cum Laude as well. At my school, you need to be ~top 10% of the class in pure GPA as well as take a boat load of liberal arts classes including 1 year of a foreign language to be eligible (and then you still need to be invited after the school looks over your school transcript). My school's breakdown for Latin honors was top 2% = Summa, next 4% = magna, next 8% = regular cum laude. If you're in PBK, chances are that you're either Magna or Summa Cum Laude (or a high regular Cum Laude) as well as taking a diverse selection of courses, which can be challenging depending on your major.

PBK is the only honors society really worth putting on your CV/resume (unless you were an engineer in which case, it'd be Tau Beta Pi). There's a reason why if you look up your professors, the ones who qualified for it still include it in their CV. It demonstrates excellence in pure academics in a similar way to latin honors but also demonstrates a special desire to learn on top of pure raw ability to do well in classes. No one includes their GPA after some years of working in their field, but they will always include latin honors and PBK

 

[redferrari]

I ran out of entries on AMCAS to list my honor society affiliations, so I didn't even mention it. My activities and experiences held more weight to me than a piece of paper that says "redferrari is a good student."

 

[yellow-mango]

I am glad I am reading this thread.
Two weeks ago, I received three emails from two deans regarding the PBK invitation, but totally ignored them.
I am invited as a junior, and will definitely list. I don't have many to list in honors/awards section.

 

[efle]

also demonstrates a special desire to learn on top of pure raw ability to do well in classes

But, like I said, many brilliant people want to do nothing but a BCPM subject. It's like winning an Olympic gold in soccer. You're great, but should be acutely aware that many of the best were excluded.

It must be the norm to do things more like your school, with everyone eligible for Latin based on GPA. I honestly can't even explain our policy. Acing all your classes and doing several years of research should be recognized separately.

 

[KungFuPanda123]

But, like I said, many brilliant people want to do nothing but a BCPM subject. It's like winning an Olympic gold in soccer. You're great, but should be acutely aware that many of the best were excluded.

It must be the norm to do things more like your school, with everyone eligible for Latin based on GPA. I honestly can't even explain our policy. Acing all your classes and doing several years of research should be recognized separately.

Yea, and that's fine. Those people can just get magna/summa cum laude which also look great. The thing is though that PBK (at least at my school) requires people to take things outside of what is required to graduate. For example, I was a chemistry major (and economics minor), but I was interested in learning a foreign language and taking history classes on top of what I needed to graduate. Sure, I had to tack on a ton of extra credits that made my academic life a bit tougher each semester, but I felt like it was worth it because I had a genuine curiosity in these subjects. PBK seeks to try to recognize people who are intellectually curious and love learning for the sake of learning as well as love learning about a diverse range of subjects - not just the sciences or just the social sciences or just the humanities.

PBK definitely excluded many people who I considered to be extremely, extremely smart at my school. Many of those people were engineers who didn't have time to take random classes since their schedules were already jam packed in order to allow them to graduate in 4 years. I also knew plenty of people who were really smart and genuinely interested in tons of different subjects and read about them on their own time but didn't elect to take college credit courses in those subjects, thus not letting their interests showing up in their school record. This basically made it so that they were not eligible to get into PBK despite having traits that are obviously parallel to the central tenants of PBK. At the end of the day, PBK is a great professional way to demonstrate academic excellence and having diverse interests in various fields without explicitly having to state it or talk about your "stats."

Yea... that's unfortunate. I don't know of any school of my head where they do latin honors in any way besides GPA haha. At my school, doing several years of research within a given department can often lead to a departmental honors that shows up on your diploma. There were other requirements too but every department was different (usually there were a certain # of courses you had to take, a certain GPA you had to have, a presentation/publication requirement, and some other things). I never bothered getting departmental honors, because I wasn't interested in doing chemistry research, and I wasn't eligible for biology department honors since I wasn't majoring or minoring in a something in their department.

 

[DingoPingo]

Not really joking. I think what they look for, and how strictly, varies by school. Nationally their rule is only 10% of a class nominated, but they're all about showing some love for humanities/liberal arts. For example my school states:

"In making its nominations, the Selection Committee reviews each record looking for evidence of both breadth and depth of interest in the liberal arts, as demonstrated in a student's work at Washington University. One record, for example, might be for a 4.00 science major who shows few interests outside the sciences--just the minimal set of distribution requirements. Such a student is clearly outstanding and deserves special recognition of some kind, but he or she probably would not be nominated"

Well, I guarantee you there are some seriously brilliant people here who knew they wanted to study Chem/Neuro/Physics/Etc and only took the required non-science classes. So while PBK elects only ~7% of senior students each year here, it's hard to say it's the top 7%.

Latins is a similar deal, in order to be eligible for it in some departments (including Bio where most premeds are) you have to do a ~40-60 page research thesis which not a lot of people do. So Summa Cum Laude puts you in the top 15%...of heavily research-oriented students.

In the end honors are cool and all, but if someone can come in loving science, make a 4.00 studying science material, and get no PBK or Latins, I become skeptical of just how impressive the honors are. Schools that base it just off GPA are much more legit, imo.

All that said, I'm still forking over the $75 for my invite, because some people like to see it on your resume/assume it just means you were near the top of your class.

Yeah definitely. Most of my undergrad studies were in neuro, but I did take random courses for fun. I received summa cum laude (top 5%) without a senior thesis. But my school does have graduation with distinction for those that do some independent study their final year, which I skipped.

I know PBK doesn't matter much in terms of medical admissions because they can see your GPA already, but I've seen incredible doctor's CVs where one of the few things they list under academics is stuff like PBK/AOA, so I accepted my invitation. It might not mean that much in application but it's a good way to demonstrate to people outside of that area that you did well. Not that it's bad to not get it, but I would definitely take it if you get the chance.