Is calculus needed???

[carn311]

Alright guys heres the deal...


I know I can just look and see which schools require a calculus sequence but I'd just like to know how good it truely looks to have taken a calculus sequence or even some high level math.

I'm in a calculus survey course right now which was supposed to be the end of my career in mathematics but I find it pretty interesting and people are telling me that taking any high level math (calc. and above) looks really good to the admissions committies.

Any thoughts?

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[Docta "O"]

bah, a pox on this cursed mathematics

 

[mohammadali99]

bah, a pox on this cursed mathematics

How about is Calc even needed to do anything in Med School?

 

[scrappysurfer]

I believe that most schools require 1 year of Calc. I actually took more than two years of calc for my major, but I don't think they care what Calc you take. Bozo nonscience calc should do the job. You can more or less steer clear of the Science & Engineering courses.

Consider you goals before you decide to skip Calc. One of the programs at Harvard actually requires a differential equations course.

 

[mohammadali99]

I believe that most schools require 1 year of Calc. I actually took more than two years of calc for my major, but I don't think they care what Calc you take. Bozo nonscience calc should do the job. You can more or less steer clear of the Science & Engineering courses.

Consider you goals before you decide to skip Calc. One of the programs at Harvard actually requires a differential equations course.

My questions to MED school students is...

How much calc do you use in your classes period.

I have been told that zero calc is used throughout med school...

anyone heard anything different?

 

[carn311]

My questions to MED school students is...

How much calc do you use in your classes period.

I have been told that zero calc is used throughout med school...

anyone heard anything different?

Perhaps its just the fact that math and computer science promote logical thinking. That would be my main driver to take any upper division math. Im not some sick freak that actually thinks its interesting in and of itself

Lets face it through; admissions people arent thinking about these things....we're premed....they just want to see how many hoops we'll jump through.

 

[gujuDoc]

No but one can say that about organic and physics too. Yet its required.


From what I understand most med schools want you to have 1 semester of Calc, and one semester of calc 2 or stats.

Also, from what I understand......they want any calc class but business calc.

At our school we have 3 options.....life science calc for bio majors, eng calc for engineering people, and regular calc which is the hardest of the three versions.

Then there is business calc which doesn't count for admissions.

It really depends on what schools you are interested in.

I would look up what the requirements are for the specific schools you are interested in.

 

[gujuDoc]

Perhaps its just the fact that math and computer science promote logical thinking. That would be my main driver to take any upper division math. Im not some sick freak that actually thinks its interesting in and of itself

Lets face it through; admissions people arent thinking about these things....we're premed....they just want to see how many hoops we'll jump through.

I totally concur with your post. I really do see how calculus has its applications better too now that I have taken it.

Especially in physics. So many of these formulas are easy to just memorize. However, if you can actually see how they are related to one another through calculus, it makes things easier because you understand why they are what they are which is important.

 

[shantster]

Alright guys heres the deal...


I know I can just look and see which schools require a calculus sequence but I'd just like to know how good it truely looks to have taken a calculus sequence or even some high level math.

I'm in a calculus survey course right now which was supposed to be the end of my career in mathematics but I find it pretty interesting and people are telling me that taking any high level math (calc. and above) looks really good to the admissions committies.

Any thoughts?

Check out the schools that you are interested in applying to. Most require one semester of Calculus, some two, and some (like Johns Hopkins) won't accept AP credit for both semesters so you'd have to take either stats or Calc 3 for admission. From what I understand, Calculus is not needed for Physics unless you are taking Calculus-based Physics, but it is helpful. I took Calc before Physics and it helped me to think in some of those random ways that they expect you to think in. And if you are finding calculus to be interesting, by all means take it since it's best to take classes you like, and generally, you do better in them too.

 

[erin682]

Most schools don't require 2 semesters of calc. Requiring 2 is the exception not the rule. I can't give you numbers but quite a number don't even require 1 semester of calc. They just want 8 hours of math above algebra level. And no you don't use anything remotely resembling calc in med school. The requirement is to show that you have to ability to think in mathematical and logical ways. I think the hardest math I have done all semester is taking a log with a calculator. Either that or doing some division on a test when we couldn't have calculator.

 

[2112_rush]

My questions to MED school students is...

How much calc do you use in your classes period.

I have been told that zero calc is used throughout med school...

anyone heard anything different?

That's about right. Zero calculus. Really we haven't used any math beyond algebra. I've also used little physics or organic chem. I agree with the poster that they want to see how many hoops you'll jump through, but I thinks it's more than that. Med school is a high stress, fast-paced curriculum with lots of detailed information and those courses are the closest college comes to simulating this. They want to see how you perform under those conditions.

 

[45408]

No but one can say that about organic and physics too. Yet its required.

You don't need physics? What're you going to tell the first patient that wants to know how an MRI works? Will it suck his fillings right out of his mouth? Why not? How does that ultrasound know how fast the blood is moving before/after the valve? Speaking of which, how does ultrasound work? Will it hurt my baby? But my sister's friend's mom's cousin said that.....

 

[gujuDoc]

You don't need physics? What're you going to tell the first patient that wants to know how an MRI works? Will it suck his fillings right out of his mouth? Why not? How does that ultrasound know how fast the blood is moving before/after the valve? Speaking of which, how does ultrasound work? Will it hurt my baby? But my sister's friend's mom's cousin said that.....

Point taken. I'm sorry I didn't mean it to come off that way. I just meant that though there is application to what we learn. For instance, applications in organic chm to pharmaceutical development, etc. A lot of us are not really going to be sitting there and writing mechanisms for organic chm nor are we going to be taking out our calculators and starting to solve bernoulli's equation out of nowhere. However, yes you are right that there are applications to most all the courses we learn and that's what is important. But in the way that it is taught at many undergrad institutions, there is not much application taught unless you go to higher level courses. And many people often times don't really take the time to learn those applications. But anyhow, most of what you need to know in med school, you learn in med school anyhow.

 

[PineappleGirl]

Alright guys heres the deal...


I know I can just look and see which schools require a calculus sequence but I'd just like to know how good it truely looks to have taken a calculus sequence or even some high level math.

I'm in a calculus survey course right now which was supposed to be the end of my career in mathematics but I find it pretty interesting and people are telling me that taking any high level math (calc. and above) looks really good to the admissions committies.

Any thoughts?

After your calc sequence I would go for a statistics class. A lot of school recommend stats and some even require it.

 

[hb2998]

I don't know how in some schools you can get a degree in Bio and other lifescienes without Calc! Calc based physics my school requires for life science majors contains a lot of calc, (not just in explaining theory but actually on tests). I'm not the bigest fan of calc (used to love calc befoe finding out its ability to murder GPA!) but it really does make physics much much easier to understand and predict. I would love to know how trig based physics is taught, and how many easily derived formulas need to be memorized! I took math major calc 1 and calc 2. Calc 1... I understand why medschools might recommend/require it. It really is sweet! Calc 2.. Don't care much for it. You'll probebly won't remember any of the tricks to apply them later on anyway, plus most non math instructors assume that people don't know math so they make any problems containing calc very simple, and easy to solve, and 2) if you really really gotta be able to solve calc 2 type problems buy a TI-89, it does every problem in that book and much much more. I didn't take calc 3 [vector calculus] so can't comment. Stat.. I recommend taking stat anyway because its a BCPM GPA Buster!

(ps my comments about calc are about math major calc.. math majors really really know their calc. Save your GPA take lifescience calc whenever possible!)

 

[gujuDoc]

I don't know how in some schools you can get a degree in Bio and other lifescienes without Calc! Calc based physics my school requires for life science majors contains a lot of calc, (not just in explaining theory but actually on tests). I'm not the bigest fan of calc (used to love calc befoe finding out its ability to murder GPA!) but it really does make physics much much easier to understand and predict. I would love to know how trig based physics is taught, and how many easily derived formulas need to be memorized! I took math major calc 1 and calc 2. Calc 1... I understand why medschools might recommend/require it. It really is sweet! Calc 2.. Don't care much for it. You'll probebly won't remember any of the tricks to apply them later on anyway, plus most non math instructors assume that people don't know math so they make any problems containing calc very simple, and easy to solve, and 2) if you really really gotta be able to solve calc 2 type problems buy a TI-89, it does every problem in that book and much much more. I didn't take calc 3 [vector calculus] so can't comment. Stat.. I recommend taking stat anyway because its a BCPM GPA Buster!

(ps my comments about calc are about math major calc.. math majors really really know their calc. Save your GPA take lifescience calc whenever possible!)

I totally agree with you. I took the algebra based physics and didn't get much out of it. Then after I finished calc.......which I know I did things in a backwards sort of order. But anyhow, finishing calc made me see its application to physics. Now understanding things like the big five equations is so much easier because I can see how most of them were integrated from one formula, and how once integrated you can derive them to get back to the original formula. Plus it just serves as a way to connect the dots and make things fit into place better. At least that is my opinion.

Looking at my friends calc based physics book over the christmas break, while studying for the MCAT made a lot of things make more sense. Because it made more sense.

 

[Ross434]

A lot of us are not really going to be sitting there and writing mechanisms for organic chm nor are we going to be taking .

Come on, the other day i was having my physical, and my doctor was like, hold on, i have to step out for a minute to solve bernoulli's equation. then when he was done, he gave me my prescription with the organic pathways diagrammed on the back of it.

 

[Law2Doc]

You don't need physics? What're you going to tell the first patient that wants to know how an MRI works? Will it suck his fillings right out of his mouth? Why not? How does that ultrasound know how fast the blood is moving before/after the valve? Speaking of which, how does ultrasound work? Will it hurt my baby? But my sister's friend's mom's cousin said that.....

A radiologist I know taught a class on "The Physics of MRI" to later year med students. He was shocked and found it remarkable at how not a single one of the med students in attendance remembered even the most basic concepts of college physics. Just lots of blank stares. Thus if you are able to retain your physics knowledge into med school to the point that you find it useful, you may be the atypical med student. More likely you will learn it for the grade/MCAT and forget it, like everyone else.

MRI's won't suck the fillings out of someone's mouth -- in modern days they tend to be made of silver, plastic or other non-magnetic materials. But MRIs have been known to pull certain older (ferrous) surgical pins out of people's knees/hips or bend them into allignment with the magnetic field. Pretty gruesome results.

 

[gujuDoc]

Come on, the other day i was having my physical, and my doctor was like, hold on, i have to step out for a minute to solve bernoulli's equation. then when he was done, he gave me my prescription with the organic pathways diagrammed on the back of it.

Huh your post makes no sense.


I was just trying to make a point. But your post absolutely makes no sense at all.

 

[45408]

MRI's won't suck the fillings out of someone's mouth -- in modern days they tend to be made of silver, plastic or other non-magnetic materials. But MRIs have been known to pull certain older (ferrous) surgical pins out of people's knees/hips or bend them into allignment with the magnetic field. Pretty gruesome results.

I know. It wouldn't even pull a piercing out or anything, but the RF could generate a current in it, which would heat it up and possibly burn you. It will erase your credits cards though.

 

[TexasSnow]

I sat in on a MS2 class while interviewing at X school and could have sworn I saw a differential equation on the board. The prof said it wasn't vital to learn the equation, rather to familiarize; he later said something to the effect of "understanding the equation would certainly make it easier to determine whether or not to intubate the patient"

But then again, at 8am, I'm liable to see pink elephants......

 

[gujuDoc]

I sat in on a MS2 class while interviewing at X school and could have sworn I saw a differential equation on the board. The prof said it wasn't vital to learn the equation, rather to familiarize; he later said something to the effect of "understanding the equation would certainly make it easier to determine whether or not to intubate the patient"

But then again, at 8am, I'm liable to see pink elephants......

lol at your last comment.

Actually after taking calc and finally realizing what I didn't clearly see with algebra/trig physics, I see the importance of calculus.

I don't care what anyone else says, but I seriously do believe Calculus is a good course to help you learn how to logically think and to understand concepts of physics and even to some extent chemistry.

In my honest opinion, if i could do it over again, I would have taken Calc my first semester, and then taken physics and then genchem and then bio and organic.

The reason for this is because as I've been studying for the MCAT I've seen that many things you learn in calculus have applications to the physical sciences. And the things you learn in physical sciences have real life applications in things like biological sciences.

Really to the original poster:

Do take Calculus. It will both look good and be a very good course if you really try to figure out the application rather than learning it and forgetting it.

 

[hb2998]

If I had to do it all over again... I'd take calc and physics first.. before gchem. Two reasons. 1. Some math/physical concepts in GChem which would be easier with physics/math background. 2. Math/Physics are gpa killers, so if you take them earlier, you get the crap grades in your freshman year, rather than junior/senior year!...

My phys lab TA told me that his bro whose in med school wished he "paid more attention" in his physics class. We might not encounter formulas in medschool, but i bet theres gonna be a lot of physical concepts. I heard there was a physics test you had to take before radiology residency... So its good to remember what F equals to.

 

[45408]

2. Math/Physics are gpa killers, so if you take them earlier, you get the crap grades in your freshman year, rather than junior/senior year!...

Not for everyone. I swung easy A's in all my physics and calculus courses, but analytical chem dropped by.

 

[gujuDoc]

I don't know how in some schools you can get a degree in Bio and other lifescienes without Calc! Calc based physics my school requires for life science majors contains a lot of calc, (not just in explaining theory but actually on tests). I'm not the bigest fan of calc (used to love calc befoe finding out its ability to murder GPA!) but it really does make physics much much easier to understand and predict. I would love to know how trig based physics is taught, and how many easily derived formulas need to be memorized! I took math major calc 1 and calc 2. Calc 1... I understand why medschools might recommend/require it. It really is sweet! Calc 2.. Don't care much for it. You'll probebly won't remember any of the tricks to apply them later on anyway, plus most non math instructors assume that people don't know math so they make any problems containing calc very simple, and easy to solve, and 2) if you really really gotta be able to solve calc 2 type problems buy a TI-89, it does every problem in that book and much much more. I didn't take calc 3 [vector calculus] so can't comment. Stat.. I recommend taking stat anyway because its a BCPM GPA Buster!

(ps my comments about calc are about math major calc.. math majors really really know their calc. Save your GPA take lifescience calc whenever possible!)

I know what you mean. My school requires that you take at least one semester of Calc for your degree if you are any sort of bio major. And if you are a chem major, you are required to take 2-3 semesters of calc depending on whether you are doing the BS or BA in chm and which of the 3 derivations of the BA in chem we have.

 

[tharealest]

I didn't take calc 3 [vector calculus] so can't comment.

Calc 3 is actually pretty easy. A lot of the class is just Calc 1 repeated with three variables.

 

[Zondeare]

On the serious side of things, yes. You do need Calc and Physics and all of that crap. It all comes back to haunt you in physiology if you didn't learn it right the first time. While it is possible to do okay without remembering college stuff, your time is MUCH better spent learning it as a pre-med and then not having to deal ineptitude later. Even Bernoulii's principle is used (in regards to respiratory physio)