For private schools.
Are you carrying in undergrad debt? Do you hope to specialize if you had the opportunity to do so? Numbers add up.For private schools.
HPSP.
I want to be a general dentist with multiple offices.I think it really depends on the value you see in a dental degree. What do YOU want to do with it? What long-term vision do YOU have?
I have about 24k undergrad debt. I don't want to specialize because I want to open multiple offices. What do you mean numbers add up?Are you carrying in undergrad debt? Do you hope to specialize if you had the opportunity to do so? Numbers add up.
Recruiters like to quote 3.5/18What GPA and DAT do you need for HPSP and how long do you have to serve before you get out? Will they send me to the middle east?
400 + 24 = 424I have about 24k undergrad debt. I don't want to specialize because I want to open multiple offices. What do you mean numbers add up?
Recruiters like to quote 3.5/18
Numbers add up... $24k + dental school debt (if $400k) + compounding interest = $500K+ in debt. Those monthly payments could be 40% of your income your first year or 2 of practice.I have about 24k undergrad debt. I don't want to specialize because I want to open multiple offices. What do you mean numbers add up?
At 140k salary in a state with state income tax, your monthly payment can be as high as 70% of your take home on a 10 year plan lol (5.5k monthly with 94k take home). Kiss goodbye to contributing to any retirement fundNumbers add up... $24k + dental school debt (if $400k) + compounding interest = $500K+ in debt. Those monthly payments could be 40% of your income your first year or 2 of practice.
The way I see is that new grads with massive loans are fueling corporate dentistry. That's a much bigger threat to folks trying to build a private practiceThe HPSP has become fairly competitive as the chance of deployment has gone down. Is there a chance you may be stationed somewhere you don't want to be? Absolutely. I will almost certainly not be deployed during my payback, but I'm also not living in what anyone would consider a destination hot spot. Hot? Yes. Do I love having no student loans to pay back? Absolutely. Is there stuff that drives me nuts working for the government? Every freaking day. But, I'll be a free man in 2.5 years and if/when I go back to specialize, I've got the GI Bill to pay for that. From the perspective of a future business owner, I do like that my competition is being neutered by their student loans. Nothing personal, just business.
Big Hoss
I want to be a general dentist with multiple offices.
Yes I know, this is tip of the iceberg for dental student loans.At 140k salary in a state with state income tax, your monthly payment can be as high as 70% of your take home on a 10 year plan lol (5.5k monthly with 94k take home). Kiss goodbye to contributing to any retirement fund
That information is for 2016/2017 numbers... Add another 3-5% for next year's entering class, that's additional $15-25k increase for the 4 years before interest. USC, NYU, BU, Penn, Midwestern, Tufts, etc ... are all hovering around $500k number after interest for the cost of a degree.OP,
if you are talking about the private schools, most private school's cost of attendance on the low end is 450-460k already. which means at the end of 4 year, accrued interest + principal will be near 500k.
for expensive school like USC or NYU, students will likely own upward of 550k after all is said and done.
Do not join the military.What GPA and DAT do you need for HPSP and how long do you have to serve before you get out? Will they send me to the middle east?
MR ROBOTi'm hoping that when trump inevitably gets elected and society breaks down my 300k student loan debt will magically disappear
What GPA and DAT do you need for HPSP and how long do you have to serve before you get out? Will they send me to the middle east?
That information is for 2016/2017 numbers... Add another 3-5% for next year's entering class, that's additional $15-25k increase for the 4 years before interest. USC, NYU, BU, Penn, Midwestern, Tufts, etc ... are all hovering around $500k number after interest for the cost of a degree.
The fastest growing segment of students in debt are probably those who are graduating with $500-600k loans, while those with under $200-250k loans are shrinking due to tuition increases.
I have an orthodontist friend who graduated from a Boston school, then finished his residency in a Colorado school... His total debt is $640k.
For private schools.
Total Cost of Attendance ranges from $120-125k a year, depending on the year. So total is $500k before interest.NYU is ~$100k/yr max, how are you getting that much? Are you factoring in what they consider as "living expenses", because you can definitely do MUCH better then that.
Secondly, for us Canadians, interest is ~2.5-3%, and doesn't start accumulating until 6 months after you get your degree (Although our exchange rate is pretty ****ty atm).
Total Cost of Attendance ranges from $120-125k a year, depending on the year. So total is $500k before interest.
http://dental.nyu.edu/academicprograms/dds-program/tuition.html
Yes. You can stay below that cost , but many students do not.
penny wise pound foolishNYU is ~$100k/yr max, how are you getting that much? Are you factoring in what they consider as "living expenses", because you can definitely do MUCH better then that.
Secondly, for us Canadians, interest is ~2.5-3%, and doesn't start accumulating until 6 months after you get your degree (Although our exchange rate is pretty ****ty atm).
Trust me, a lot of students don't see it that way. I had many classmates in Boston who lived in $2k a month apartments the entire 4 years of school, that's about $25k a year. They were extroverts and were out every weekend (and most of the weekdays) kicking with other students from different Boston schools. They were hitting the local bars after the midterms and finals. The more social a city is, the more you need to flexible with your budget - incase you end up having those kind of friends, or even if your perspective of the city changes. So going to NYU is not just about the school, the city is great too and very much different than going to school anywhere else.What I'm saying is living expenses are no where near $34k/yr. How do you think people making less than that in a year survive normally?
No.For private schools.
This is considering your income is not high. With the length of time it takes to get to the point that you hit the expiration, and the tax liability that comes with the forgiven amount you end up paying more than you borrowed anyway.No.
Def education bubble. Income-based-repayment till you hit the expiration then pay off int accum. Welcome to America.
There is a bubble.The federal student loan system is not set up the same way as mortgages. I do not foresee a bubble burst.
how do these people survive once they're in the 'real world'? half a million dollars that's ridiculousThat information is for 2016/2017 numbers... Add another 3-5% for next year's entering class, that's additional $15-25k increase for the 4 years before interest. USC, NYU, BU, Penn, Midwestern, Tufts, etc ... are all hovering around $500k number after interest for the cost of a degree.
The fastest growing segment of students in debt are probably those who are graduating with $500-600k loans, while those with under $200-250k loans are shrinking due to tuition increases.
I have an orthodontist friend who graduated from a Boston school, then finished his residency in a Colorado school... His total debt is $640k.
IBR/PAYEhow do these people survive once they're in the 'real world'? half a million dollars that's ridiculous
And the consequence?how do these people survive once they're in the 'real world'? half a million dollars that's ridiculous
So is med school worth it? Leave healthcare overall? Engineering? Business or health administration? No field is perfect, is dentistry descent? It's still competitive to get into dschool and DAT stats are goin up each cycle for some schools.And the consequence?
According to the ADA.. The "number of examined applicants" are down by about 7% or 4,300 applicants from 2013/14 to 2014/15. That's just in 1 year. The odds of getting into dental school now is the highest and easiest since the late 1990's. It's less that 2 applicants per 1 accepted student, and all this is happening during 9 schools being opened within just the last 10 years.
It looks like the interest in dental school has peaked and entered a decline phase.
Yes. If all you care is about the bang for the buck and you're paying full tuition yourself, leave and never look back.So is med school worth it? Leave healthcare overall? Engineering? Business or health administration? No field is perfect, is dentistry descent? It's still competitive to get into dschool and DAT stats are goin up each cycle for some schools.
And the consequence?
According to the ADA.. The "number of examined applicants" are down by about 7% or 4,300 applicants from 2013/14 to 2014/15. That's just in 1 year. The odds of getting into dental school now is the highest and easiest since the late 1990's. It's less that 2 applicants per 1 accepted student, and all this is happening during 9 schools being opened within just the last 10 years.
It looks like the interest in dental school has peaked and entered a decline phase.
Nope. Totally different numbers. I was referring to total "examined applicants", which is different than the numbers you mentioned.Yes. If all you care is about the bang for the buck and you're paying full tuition yourself, leave and never look back.
I think you might want to re-read that...
Number of application =/= Number of applicants
Number of applicants only dropped by 400. Average looks to be about five examined application per applicant. So that's already 2000 application dropped by default if you exclude 400 people.
I dont know how they categorize examined application though. A different source says it's about 9 application per applicant.
So where are you getting the numbers for "examined applicants"?Nope. Totally different numbers. I was referring to total "examined applicants", which is different than the numbers you mentioned.
A better number to look is the "Average number of applicants per school", which went down from 1,025.4 to 958.8 for the same period. Which is 6.5% decline. It declined 4% in 2012/13 to 2013/14. So a total of 10% decline over 2 cycles.
I see the semantics disagreement.So where are you getting the numbers for "examined applicants"?
I also only see "average number of application per school" not "average number of applicant per school"
People are sending out application to fewer schools. But the number of people who are interested in pursuing dentistry hasn't declined as much as you said it has. That's not at all reflective of the sentiment that people are turning away from dentistry in my opinion.
And if we're selective about our analysis, you can argue that the dentistry is getting easier to get in because from 2005 to 2015 number of applicants only increased by 9% while the number of seats increased by nearly 30%
To me, it certainly doesn't seem like students are anymore unwilling to pay for high tuition than in the past
And the consequence?
According to the ADA.. The "number of examined applicants" are down by about 7% or 4,300 applicants from 2013/14 to 2014/15. That's just in 1 year. The odds of getting into dental school now is the highest and easiest since the late 1990's. It's less that 2 applicants per 1 accepted student, and all this is happening during 9 schools being opened within just the last 10 years.
It looks like the interest in dental school has peaked and entered a decline phase.
OK, you really need to look at your chart again.I see the semantics disagreement.
Number of Examined Applications = Applications Examined by All Admission Committees. This is the number that went down about 7% or 4,300.
Another way to look at it, people are applying to fewer schools than they previously did.
This is not my chart. It's a recent published ADA chart.Based on your chart, the interest in dentistry is doing just fine. If you don't believe me, I would recommend looking at the trend of GPA and DAT scores of enrollees.
Also, the quality of a dental applicant (GPA, DAT, etc) is not a factor here. A local undergrad school in my city (which is the second largest undergrad school in the country) recently reported their incoming freshman class had the highest average SAT scores in the history of the school. Yet, the school has a relative demand that created more programs, class seats, and highest tuition in the history of the school for the same period.
Yes, the record setting SAT scores trend is happening nationwide. I agree, most schools are always going to say this is "our best class ever" year after year. Some years it's the most "diverse" class ever, "biggest" class ever, "best SAT", etc.Statistic is a only as good as the garbage that is put into it. SAT scores have been trending down for a long time, so the college testing board have added ~150 points to all scores to bring up the scores.
Really? Looking to do a post bacc(Not SMP). Is it easy to get loans?There is a bubble.
You can't just buy a home if you are unemployed and with a bad credit, but you just need a pulse to get yourself into $100-200k debt in just undergraduate loans.
Loans?Really? Looking to do a post bacc(Not SMP). Is it easy to get loans?