Is EMS not enough clinical experience?

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Princeton Medical Student

Princeton Medical Student

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By the time I apply I would have 4 years of EMS work (part time of course), and probably >1k hours of patient interactions. Would I need other, more hospital based, clinical experience, or would that be enough? I still of course will shadow, and will volunteer.
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Princeton Medical Student said:
By the time I apply I would have 4 years of EMS work (part time of course), and probably >1k hours of patient interactions. Would I need other, more hospital based, clinical experience, or would that be enough? I still of course will shadow, and will volunteer.
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It's definitely clinical experience, but some adcoms view EMTs as glorified cab drivers. Kind of depends on your department and your individual experience. Also, as an EMT, you aren't really seeing how physicians practice medicine, so you definitely need to shadow (which you said you will have, so that's good).

Personally, I think it can be great experience, but it will be highly dependent on your individual experience. If you're mostly just showing up and transporting, then not so much.
 
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That's true, my experience was with an EMT-only service which called in paramedics only for calls that needed them, so there was much more clinical engagement
 
neoevolution said:
What sort of EMS work specifically? Like is this working at your school gym or are you riding in ambulances?
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911, municipal based, basic life support service, so yeah ambulances. No dialysis or hospital-hospital transfers or anything. I'm just a bit worried about if I need to also scribe or find some experience in a hospital, since pre-hospital care is different from hospital care. Do you think that shadowing would overcome that, or would I need to look for something in-hospital as well?
 
I was successfully admitted to 4 schools with just EMT experience (2 years as an EMT B with my university's EMS services. However I took an intermediate EMT class that required 100+ hours of clinicals in emergency rooms assisting ED staff with IVs, Med administration, vital sign reading, etc. I was under the direct supervision of nurses, but it gave me a lot of exposure to physicians. You should check it out if you can do something like that.
 
With shadowing it's probably enough. But having some diversity in your app is always nice so that you can talk about more than just one aspect or field of medicine.

>1000hrs in one activity is a massive amount of time. I'd allocate some of those hours for clinical volunteering for optimal gainz.
 
It's not about whether you did EMS but rather about what it taught you about clinical medicine. The point of having clinical experience is to convey that you know what you're getting into and understand what the medical field is like. If you're an EMT who only does interfacility transports where you shuttle stable patients between locations, you're probably not going to be able to talk much about how that relates to your interest in medicine. But if you're on a squad that responds to 911 calls and have seen strokes, cardiac arrests, trauma, etc., then you can probably talk about those experiences intelligently and how they relate to your ambition to become a doctor.
 
aldol16 said:
It's not about whether you did EMS but rather about what it taught you about clinical medicine. The point of having clinical experience is to convey that you know what you're getting into and understand what the medical field is like. If you're an EMT who only does interfacility transports where you shuttle stable patients between locations, you're probably not going to be able to talk much about how that relates to your interest in medicine. But if you're on a squad that responds to 911 calls and have seen strokes, cardiac arrests, trauma, etc., then you can probably talk about those experiences intelligently and how they relate to your ambition to become a doctor.
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Alternatively, part of getting clinical experience as a premed is making sure you like being around patients, and working with other healthcare professionals. I do both 911 and transports, and can't say one is better than the other in terms of exposure, albeit the former is more fun.

With transports I have to interact with nurses and doctors, get a report on the patient, get paperwork, take patient history, keep the patient company during transport, etc... 911 calls I get to do more medical related tasks, like vitals and basic interventions. In both instances I get a basis for what the healthcare system entails.

I think if you couple that with a little shadowing there isn't much you can say negatively about the experience in EMS.
 
I'm in a foul mood today, so be prepared for a large dose of NaCl: we're looking to have you show us that you want to spend the next 30-40 years being around sick people and their families, and not a mere taxi driver, or adrenalin junkie.

Princeton Medical Student said:
By the time I apply I would have 4 years of EMS work (part time of course), and probably >1k hours of patient interactions. Would I need other, more hospital based, clinical experience, or would that be enough? I still of course will shadow, and will volunteer.
Click to expand...
 
Goro said:
I'm in a foul mood today, so be prepared for a large dose of NaCl: we're looking to have you show us that you want to spend the next 30-40 years being around sick people and their families, and not a mere taxi driver, or adrenalin junkie.
Click to expand...

Was waiting for this. 😉
 
Thanks for everyone's replies. Ill try to also look for an er tech gig to get some more in hospital experience. Thank you!
Goro said:
I'm in a foul mood today, so be prepared for a large dose of NaCl: we're looking to have you show us that you want to spend the next 30-40 years being around sick people and their families, and not a mere taxi driver, or adrenalin junkie.
Click to expand...
Tempted to say something, but I wont. 😛
 
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so volunteering as an EMT with 911 call and shadowing isn't enough?


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Taken on its own it doesn't show much, but as part of your overall narrative (ie realizing you love the passion of the ER docs because of your ems exposure, and then you go to shadow ER docs to see if this is where you can see yourself in ten years) as to why youve chosen medicine, ems is a completely valid way to prove that; to yourself and to others.


I have nothing but respect for @Goro but I also have nothing but respect for my friends and colleagues working medical and trauma calls during 24hr shifts on ALS trucks in pretty messed up neighborhoods.

I think (edit: I know) most adcoms would share that respect too.
 
Goro said:
I'm in a foul mood today, so be prepared for a large dose of NaCl: we're looking to have you show us that you want to spend the next 30-40 years being around sick people and their families, and not a mere taxi driver, or adrenalin junkie.
Click to expand...
Don't some AdComs value EMS experiences though?
( Also, aren't all your posts a little salty, to slap the nueroticism out of us.)
 
Goro said:
Me personally, I have a more respect for parameds.

Don't some AdComs value EMS experiences though?

Only to the thin-skinned.
( Also, aren't all your posts a little salty,
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*scratches your avatar behind the ears*
 
Goro said:
I'm in a foul mood today, so be prepared for a large dose of NaCl: we're looking to have you show us that you want to spend the next 30-40 years being around sick people and their families, and not a mere taxi driver, or adrenalin junkie.
Click to expand...
I want to be EMT-certified this summer and find a job.. Dang, this bums me so much. So CNA would be better?
 
Geo16 said:
I want to be EMT-certified this summer and find a job.. Dang, this bums me so much. So CNA would be better?
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with becoming an EMT as long as you're using that certification and going out on calls. You can supplement that with some other clinical experience so that you get more of a rounded experience (so that it's not just all pre-hospital care). You do get more experience in a clinical setting as a CNA if you work in a nursing home but if that's not your thing, you shouldn't make yourself miserable just for the chance of looking slightly better.
 
aldol16 said:
Nothing wrong with becoming an EMT as long as you're using that certification and going out on calls. You can supplement that with some other clinical experience so that you get more of a rounded experience (so that it's not just all pre-hospital care). You do get more experience in a clinical setting as a CNA if you work in a nursing home but if that's not your thing, you shouldn't make yourself miserable just for the chance of looking slightly better.
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I'm doing a hospital volunteer where I deliver meal trays to patients and help with anything they need (water, 'get me this' kind of quest). Before being on my own, I shadowed CNA and their job was insanely COOL. One of CNA told me to just become a EMT and work in ER as an ER technician. The CNA said I'll have more time working with ER Physician than being on the hospital floor. But I'd be a CNA. This job is totally cool that I wouldn't mind being one.
 
Goro said:
I love your avatar too. Mine is sitting in my lap as I write this, purring.
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This kitty isn't mine though- it's a stock photo.
We don't have any cats D: My dad doesn't like pets in the house lol ( None of us are allergic, Thank God. That's the only valid reason not to have a kitty.)
We're slowly wearing him down, though....
 
Geo16 said:
I want to be EMT-certified this summer and find a job.. Dang, this bums me so much. So CNA would be better?
Click to expand...

Do NOT decide to not be an EMT and go CNA because it might be a little better for the application. What will be good is doing something you enjoy and being able to talk about it. Get the cert and go out on calls and see stuff. You can always volunteer in a hospital and shadow to supplement (and you should be shadowing anyway).
 
3 of my pre med buddis did the emt course, one failed the exam, one can't find a job and the other one has really ****ty hours
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Do NOT decide to not be an EMT and go CNA because it might be a little better for the application. What will be good is doing something you enjoy and being able to talk about it. Get the cert and go out on calls and see stuff. You can always volunteer in a hospital and shadow to supplement (and you should be shadowing anyway).
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As a volunteer, I work with CNA 🙂 I've been following them around for a whole day and their work is so freaking cool. It moved me to actually get a CNA or EMT. The CNA I work with told me to just get EMT since I can work as ER Technician who can work closely with doctors. I'm definitely sure about CNA, but I'm definitely not sure about EMT. I can work as CNA, this job gives me good feelings!
 
EMT should be enough depending on what you do! Paramedics are not the only ones who are crazy stuff... I've worked private and 911 EMS in rural and urban areas and sure, some of it is stupid, but I've also seen some crazy stuff that I would have never seen as a CNA. And paramedics aren't always around, and any ambulance can be sent on any call... I was first on for a birth and very serious GSW in January alone, and I only have my EMT, so I can't share Goro's perception that my job is predominantly that of a glorified taxi driver in my private EMS job. Most of the adcoms have been very interested in the work. Even if you are just doing transfers, you're still doing the vitals, you're still in constant patient contact, you're reading doctors and nurses notes and interacting with them literally every day. I think it's been great clinical exposure for me and has certainly formed me into more of a leader.


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Myelinationiskey said:
EMT should be enough depending on what you do! Paramedics are not the only ones who are crazy stuff... I've worked private and 911 EMS in rural and urban areas and sure, some of it is stupid, but I've also seen some crazy stuff that I would have never seen as a CNA. And paramedics aren't always around, and any ambulance can be sent on any call... I was first on for a birth and very serious GSW in January alone, and I only have my EMT, so I can't share Goro's perception that my job is predominantly that of a glorified taxi driver in my private EMS job. Most of the adcoms have been very interested in the work. Even if you are just doing transfers, you're still doing the vitals, you're still in constant patient contact, you're reading doctors and nurses notes and interacting with them literally every day. I think it's been great clinical exposure for me and has certainly formed me into more of a leader.
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I think I'm gonna go as CNA. ER technician sounds nice, but CNA's job was amazing. Like this is what I'd like to do! I was going for EMT just because of class flexibility (3 week accel course in summer at UCLA) & one CNA strongly recommended that I do. To be honest, EMT's job doesn't suit me. I want to take care of patients and give them a piece of comfort. But I think I'll find a part-time CNA classes near me..
 
I've done pretty much everything in the paramedic scope of practice other than cricothyrotomy, but I think my most memorable EMS moment was as an EMT-Basic, transporting a patient home for hospice. Told that story a few times at interviews and everyone loved it. Even if you're just carting people around you can make a real difference and brighten their day. You might be the only English-speaking person they interact with all week. Their family never visits them and they look forward to chatting with you on the way to dialysis, etc. A lot of nursing homes are utter hell holes, and you can be a breath of fresh air for people.

You also gain a different perspective from working EMS that you might not be able to get once you become a big fancy doctor. People say medical students are at the bottom of the totem pole, but people know eventually you're going to be a doctor so I think that colors the way they treat you. As an EMT, people will pretty much assume you're a muppet and treat you accordingly, which can be an interesting experience. You get to see patients "in their natural habitat" as well, which maybe you won't at any point for the rest of your medical career.
 
Princeton Medical Student said:
911, municipal based, basic life support service, so yeah ambulances. No dialysis or hospital-hospital transfers or anything. I'm just a bit worried about if I need to also scribe or find some experience in a hospital, since pre-hospital care is different from hospital care. Do you think that shadowing would overcome that, or would I need to look for something in-hospital as well?
Click to expand...

IMHO thats more than enough clinical experience.

FWIW I'd also do some shadowing just to be on the safe side.

-Ex MD student adcom member
 
Goro said:
I'm in a foul mood today, so be prepared for a large dose of NaCl: we're looking to have you show us that you want to spend the next 30-40 years being around sick people and their families, and not a mere taxi driver, or adrenalin junkie.
Click to expand...
why so blue?
 
I wanted to ask that as well.....
 
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