Is evolution a debated topic in the veterinary field?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Get help with your application

Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
. The so-called 'macro' evolution takes a wee bit more thought and can't be directly observed (as in a living creature) so they disregard that, which I think is ironic for a population that bases their entire existence on something they can't directly observe.
Actually I don't agree with this statement. ***shocking*** That is because it can be observed!!!

Anyone who has taken a really good human anthropology course (i.e. human evolution) gets to actually touch and feel a ton of examples of how how humans evolved from non-human primates. I mean, the skull structure of australopithicenes could never be confused with humans. They are clearly primate-like. And then you can see all those "intermediate" forms that rackinghorse says don't exist. I guess they all just died out in the flood along with the dinosaurs (or what bible "scholars" like to say is a "behemoth" mentioned in the bible or dragons or whatever).

Come visit Penn's archaeology museum if you want to see for yourself. I had the honor to study with Dr. Mann before he retired...
 
Actually I don't agree with this statement. ***shocking*** That is because it can be observed!!!

Anyone who has taken a really good human anthropology course (i.e. human evolution) gets to actually touch and feel a ton of examples of how how humans evolved from non-human primates. I mean, the skull structure of australopithicenes could never be confused with humans. They are clearly primate-like. And then you can see all those "intermediate" forms that rackinghorse says don't exist. I guess they all just died out in the flood along with the dinosaurs (or what bible "scholars" like to say is a "behemoth" mentioned in the bible or dragons or whatever).

Come visit Penn's archaeology museum if you want to see for yourself. I had the honor to study with Dr. Mann before he retired...

"Intermediate Forms" as they are termed, do not exist. Any skeleton or fossil that has been found is either fully ape or fully man.
 
startingovervet, i love penn's archaeology museum! they have some pretty cool stuff there 👍
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
I do not believe in macroscopic evolution. However, I do believe in genetic changes in populations and adaptations but I do not believe a species can change from one species to the next.

My roommate and I were having this very discussion the other day. Our discussion revolved more around how science should be taught in schools so students can fully comprehend evolution and its mechanisms so students are not so ignorant of the processes.

The above comment is actually rather disheartening to me. To me this just goes to show how our science education has failed our society. It goes to show that when people stop questioning the world they will believe whatever they want.

There about about 1.9 million species of plants and animals on the earth today, with new species are being discovered every day. I do not understand how you can come to the conclusion that all those plants and animals could possibly fit on a boat. I could possibly stay in the same ball park with you, if you said that many evolved from the limited number on the ark, but you wont even let science say that much. Wow, just wow.

I think I may also register for Dsmoodys newsletter. :whoa:
 
"Intermediate Forms" as they are termed, do not exist. Any skeleton or fossil that has been found is either fully ape or fully man.
neat rhetoric. First you claim there are no intermediate forms, then you say that defacto nothing can be called an intermediate form. Really leaves no room for discussion.

Let me try that:
I am right.
If you say I am wrong, then you are mistaken.
Therefore, I am right.

This is fun. I am going to try it with my wife. Wish me luck.
 
My roommate and I were having this very discussion the other day. Our discussion revolved more around how science should be taught in schools so students can fully comprehend evolution and its mechanisms so students are not so ignorant of the processes.

The above comment is actually rather disheartening to me. To me this just goes to show how our science education has failed our society. It goes to show that when people stop questioning the world they will believe whatever they want.

There about about 1.9 million species of plants and animals on the earth today, with new species are being discovered every day. I do not understand how you can come to the conclusion that all those plants and animals could possibly fit on a boat. I could possibly stay in the same ball park with you, if you said that many evolved from the limited number on the ark, but you wont even let science say that much. Wow, just wow.

I think I may also register for Dsmoodys newsletter. :whoa:

Please read my previous posts. Like I have said and can not stress it enough, I do believe in variation within species. Take all the breeds of domestic animals as an example.
 
Please read my previous posts. Like I have said and can not stress it enough, I do believe in variation within species. Take all the breeds of domestic animals as an example.

And what causes that variation?

Looking at domestic animals... you can artificially select dogs for a specific physical trait within several generations.

I'm assuming you believe in the Pug...?

If god magic'd up the Pug, I'd like to suggest he may have had a drinking problem.
 
And what causes that variation?

Looking at domestic animals... you can artificially select dogs for a specific physical trait within several generations.

I'm assuming you believe in the Pug...?

If god magic'd up the Pug, I'd like to suggest he may have had a drinking problem.

Once again I believe in variation within species. But a dog is a dog is a dog. You will never mate a dog to another dog and get some kind of transitional form, it will be 100% DOG.
 
Let me try that:
I am right.
If you say I am wrong, then you are mistaken.
Therefore, I am right.

This is fun. I am going to try it with my wife. Wish me luck.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

If god magic'd up the Pug, I'd like to suggest he may have had a drinking problem.
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

You guys just made my day!!!

...and back to diagnostic imaging i go!!!

Though I will quickly add - I lived with a girl once who believed in all evolution except the evolution of humans, because humans have souls and therefore couldnt evolve - they were created by god. I also failed to see how on earth she could have believed this - especially as one of the classes she was taking that semester was based on human evolution.

She refused to put intelligent answers on her exams - she failed her exam. Which i think is fair enough. She was sticking to her guns and would not even address the given evidence. Which makes me wonder why on earth she took the class in the first place?!

Also, to all those in vet school - we did a class in comparative and evolutionary anatomy. (Kind of an add on to the traditional anatomy course, because Australia has so much weird and wonderful wildlife!) Did anyone else get one of these? I don't know how you can complete these classes and not be able to see the chain of evolution...
 
This thread reminds me of the Isaac Asimov quote, "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' "

It always amazes me that there are people who want to be scientists/have science based careers, and yet they blatantly reject the theory of evolution. It explains so much in science, but just because they don't think they could be in anyway related to an ape, let alone the rest of nature, they reject it. In my opinion, it stems from the very poor teaching of evolution in the US. In fact, when I think back to my high school biology classes I can’t even remember the word evolution being mentioned. 😳

BTW, bbeventer - loved the Noah's Ark videos :laugh:
 
I have yet to meet a creationist that was not either raised in a creationist home or influenced by a strong religious dogma. Similarly, I have never met a person who, presented with all potential theories on evolution, has agreed with any theory other than natural selection.

Scientific American does a good job dealing with Intelligent Design and Creationism. When we accept intelligent design, creationism, or any other example of using a god to explain the unexplainable, we acknowledge and fortify a limit to science.

I can't even stand Francis Collins. The scientific community shouldn't be bothered with any organized religions.

Why doesn't this thread have a poll?
 
I have yet to meet a creationist that was not either raised in a creationist home or influenced by a strong religious dogma. Similarly, I have never met a person who, presented with all potential theories on evolution, has agreed with any theory other than natural selection.

Scientific American does a good job dealing with Intelligent Design and Creationism. When we accept intelligent design, creationism, or any other example of using a god to explain the unexplainable, we acknowledge and fortify a limit to science.

I can't even stand Francis Collins. The scientific community shouldn't be bothered with any organized religions.

Why doesn't this thread have a poll?

Of course creationists have been influenced by religious dogma, just as darwinists have been influenced by crackpot scientists trying to get rid of an authority that they will one day be held accountable by.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Also a few people have pointed out that believing in evolution and believing in a world created by God do not have to be mutually exclusive.

Yes.


In order to believe in the God of the Bible you must believe that He created it in 7 literal days. Evolution is incompatible with The Bible, and is a tool of Satan.

OK HERE'S WHERE I HAVE TO STEP IN.

This is what is unfortunate about Christians. The Bible has been misconstrued and taken out of context so much it makes me want to cry. They seem to not understand (or perhaps forget?) that the Bible was written in Hebrew and then translated into many languages, and many times the Hebrew words did not have a meaning that could nbe translated. Also the time frames, meanings, and stories in the Bible are often taken FAR too literally and misunderstood through comparing them alongside our current time frames and things like that. I have been raised in the church since I was born, and I can't sit silent any longer with this debate.

TO CLARIFY: NO, God did not make the world in 7 LITERAL days. If you have studied theology or the Bible at all, you would know that 7 days in God's time is not the same as 7 days in 2011. Just as the three wisemen did not arrive on the day Jesus was born to bring him gifts, but rather didn't meet him until he was at least a year and a half (making the trek from the Orient as they were). Not everything in the Bible is to be taken literally, because it was written SO LONG AGO and translated SO MANY TIMES.

It's illogical to reject the notion that creatures evolve. I don't support Darwinism, and I don't believe that creatures evolved on the basis of non-human primates to humans (I believe humans are their own beings, apart from stemming from primates), but it's literally impossible to say that due to genetic mutations, geographic isolation, etc. things do not adapt to changes. I also don't feel like it's "against Christianity" to accept this irrefutable evidence. The way you are speaking is quite ignorant and it would suit you to explore all facets of evolution (and perhaps delve into the Bible a bit more) before you make these claims.
 
Yes.




OK HERE'S WHERE I HAVE TO STEP IN.

This is what is unfortunate about Christians. The Bible has been misconstrued and taken out of context so much it makes me want to cry. They seem to not understand (or perhaps forget?) that the Bible was written in Hebrew and then translated into many languages, and many times the Hebrew words did not have a meaning that could nbe translated. Also the time frames, meanings, and stories in the Bible are often taken FAR too literally and misunderstood through comparing them alongside our current time frames and things like that. I have been raised in the church since I was born, and I can't sit silent any longer with this debate.

TO CLARIFY: NO, God did not make the world in 7 LITERAL days. If you have studied theology or the Bible at all, you would know that 7 days in God's time is not the same as 7 days in 2011. Just as the three wisemen did not arrive on the day Jesus was born to bring him gifts, but rather didn't meet him until he was at least a year and a half (making the trek from the Orient as they were). Not everything in the Bible is to be taken literally, because it was written SO LONG AGO and translated SO MANY TIMES.

It's illogical to reject the notion that creatures evolve. I don't support Darwinism, and I don't believe that creatures evolved on the basis of non-human primates to humans (I believe humans are their own beings, apart from stemming from primates), but it's literally impossible to say that due to genetic mutations, geographic isolation, etc. things do not adapt to changes. I also don't feel like it's "against Christianity" to accept this irrefutable evidence. The way you are speaking is quite ignorant and it would suit you to explore all facets of evolution (and perhaps delve into the Bible a bit more) before you make these claims.

I agree with you when it comes to you'r stance on evolution. However, you are extremely deceived about the inerrancy of the Bible. Do you honestly think that a Holy God who created this universe is not able to preserve a translation of His Word without error for His followers to go by? That would be preposterous to even entertain an idea such as that! And as far as delving more into the Bible is concerned, I have been in The Bible since I was 5 years old. I was raised in church and attended a Christian school. I more than likely have forgotten more about the Bible than you know. Also, I have been in college for 3 years now, so I have pretty well exhausted the facets of darwinism. And, yes God made the world in exactly 7 literal days. God means what He says, and says what He means. You have no right to allegorize the Bible without The Bible saying that a certain passage is strictly allegorical, as with the book of Revelation.
 
I don't believe someone could possibly not believe in evolution if they have actually received and absorbed a half-decent scientific education. In anything, veterinary students, with their training in comparative anatomy and development should have an easier time believing in it. Embryology, genetic variance, morphological parallels, and vestigial structures all provide evidence that even an introductory student in the sciences can discern. Debates over first cause are fruitless and unproveable and don't discredit evolution, so a belief in whatever deity you like does not preclude a belief in evolution. All the reputable scientific organizations agree: nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
 
And, yes God made the world in exactly 7 literal days. God means what He says, and says what He means. You have no right to allegorize the Bible without The Bible saying that a certain passage is strictly allegorical, as with the book of Revelation.

Did you really not read what I said when I said the Bible has been translated over and over again?!

I mean just that. Thus the phrase "lost in translation." God didn't write the Bible in English, nor did he even write it. He spoke it to people who transcribed it, and then others transcribed it after that. I'm not saying the Bible is false, I very much believe the core of what it says is true, I'm jsut saying that there are parts of the Bible that have been translated into the best way whoever was translating knew how, but that may not be what it's actually saying. I'm not discounting the Bible or "allegorizing" it, I'm saying that upon further review of the stories and looking into customs of the time it was written you can get a more accurate picture of what the Bible is saying. The time frames, etc. are not necessarily exactly how you picture them in your head. Yes, God means what he says and says what he means, but what the words you're reading are a product of translation and transcription, its not as if God himself operated the printing press to get them out.
 
I agree with you when it comes to you'r stance on evolution. However, you are extremely deceived about the inerrancy of the Bible. Do you honestly think that a Holy God who created this universe is not able to preserve a translation of His Word without error for His followers to go by? That would be preposterous to even entertain an idea such as that! And as far as delving more into the Bible is concerned, I have been in The Bible since I was 5 years old. I was raised in church and attended a Christian school. I more than likely have forgotten more about the Bible than you know. Also, I have been in college for 3 years now, so I have pretty well exhausted the facets of darwinism. And, yes God made the world in exactly 7 literal days. God means what He says, and says what He means. You have no right to allegorize the Bible without The Bible saying that a certain passage is strictly allegorical, as with the book of Revelation.

This just...I can't even.....

:boom:
 
So the Bible says you shouldn't eat shellfish and cloven hooved animals and you're allowed to sell your daughter into slavery.

Are these things okay and to be interpreted literally in our daily lives, RackingHorse?
 
So the Bible says you shouldn't eat shellfish and cloven hooved animals and you're allowed to sell your daughter into slavery.

Are these things okay and to be interpreted literally in our daily lives, RackingHorse?
I can answer this one using the logic espoused earlier.

These things have been "determined" by God not to be relevant anymore as have been told to us by men inspired by God.

So, anything that religious men say about God is true by the mere fact they say it. There is no argument after that (see my previous point).

I am just waiting for "these men" to be told by God that evolution is valid and not to interpret the bible so literally and then we can all move on and debate something more important like..........where is all the dark matter in the universe. Is God hiding it?
 
Did you really not read what I said when I said the Bible has been translated over and over again?!

I mean just that. Thus the phrase "lost in translation." God didn't write the Bible in English, nor did he even write it. He spoke it to people who transcribed it, and then others transcribed it after that. I'm not saying the Bible is false, I very much believe the core of what it says is true, I'm jsut saying that there are parts of the Bible that have been translated into the best way whoever was translating knew how, but that may not be what it's actually saying. I'm not discounting the Bible or "allegorizing" it, I'm saying that upon further review of the stories and looking into customs of the time it was written you can get a more accurate picture of what the Bible is saying. The time frames, etc. are not necessarily exactly how you picture them in your head. Yes, God means what he says and says what he means, but what the words you're reading are a product of translation and transcription, its not as if God himself operated the printing press to get them out.

Yes! I just sat down to read the posts since last night and have been itching to say this! Thanks for beating me to it 🙂

At the risk of being "that annoying girl who keeps referencing her seminary husband," we have talked about this A LOT. His courses in Hebrew & Greek, as well as other courses that are focused on the New & Old Testament, have repeatedly discussed all of the issues with Bible translation. He's also had a lot of conversations with a friend of his who is a Biblical Studies major (therefore taking extensive Greek/Hebrew courses). There is SO much confusion over translating the Bible... in fact, there are a lot of words in the Hebrew/Greek that we have absolutely no idea what they mean! Scholars use historical cues & context cues to try to get the "gist" of the statements, but to assume that everything must be interpreted literally would be a huge mistake.

Fundamentalists scare me. I mean, really scare me.... because I think they're missing the boat in a lot of ways on everything that Christianity has to offer, as well as scaring others off in the process.

(FWIW, we're technically Baptist but currently working in a UCC church.)
 
So, anything that religious men say about God is true by the mere fact they say it. There is no argument after that (see my previous point).

I am just waiting for "these men" to be told by God that evolution is valid and not to interpret the bible so literally and then we can all move on and debate something more important like..........where is all the dark matter in the universe. Is God hiding it?

Using this as a jumping off point... Holy men HAVE embraced evolution, or at least decided it doesn't contradict Christianity or the Bible.

Nonetheless, Pius XII states that nothing in Catholic doctrine is contradicted by a theory that suggests one specie might evolve into another—even if that specie is man. The Pope declared:
"The Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experiences in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God."

In other words, the Pope could live with evolution, so long as the process of “ensouling” humans was left to God.
When the pope came to the subject of the scientific merits of evolution, it soon became clear how much things had changed in the nearly since the Vatican last addressed the issue. John Paul said:

Today, almost half a century after publication of the encyclical, new knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis. It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory.

Evolution, a doctrine that Pius XII only acknowledged as an unfortunate possibility, John Paul accepts forty-six years later “as an effectively proven fact.” (ROA, 82)

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/vaticanview.html
 
This is what is unfortunate about Christians. The Bible has been misconstrued and taken out of context so much it makes me want to cry. They seem to not understand (or perhaps forget?) that the Bible was written in Hebrew and then translated into many languages, and many times the Hebrew words did not have a meaning that could nbe translated. Also the time frames, meanings, and stories in the Bible are often taken FAR too literally and misunderstood through comparing them alongside our current time frames and things like that. I have been raised in the church since I was born, and I can't sit silent any longer with this debate.

TO CLARIFY: NO, God did not make the world in 7 LITERAL days. If you have studied theology or the Bible at all, you would know that 7 days in God's time is not the same as 7 days in 2011. Just as the three wisemen did not arrive on the day Jesus was born to bring him gifts, but rather didn't meet him until he was at least a year and a half (making the trek from the Orient as they were). Not everything in the Bible is to be taken literally, because it was written SO LONG AGO and translated SO MANY TIMES.

Haha, that reminded me of someone. A friend of mine thinks homosexuality is a sin because it says so in the Bible, yet she thinks she is not going to hell for having premarital sex with 6 guys and taking up drinking. I hate people who take some parts of the bible literally and some parts abstractly, then proceed to rub their beliefs in your face.

I took a philosophy class on Science and Technology and we covered the whole creationist/evolution/intelligent design thing. I found it very interesting, but I still do not think I'm educated enough in both evolutionary theory and theology to say it is definitely one or the other. I guess I take an entirely different approach to it. I find evolutionary theory fascinating. If I find something fascinating, it tends to stick in my brain better than something I am not fascinated by. I also find it fascinating to ask those who believe in creationism/intelligent design why they believe in it despite the overwhelming evidence for evolution. Although evolution seems pretty convincing to me, I do not feel educated enough to argue with someone. I am a horrible debater and tend not to get involved with these topics. I just do not appreciate it when people rub their beliefs in my face. It annoys me even more when they do not even have the facts to properly back it up.

The way I see it: if you are a great, well-educated vet who is compassionate towards animals, I could care less what you believe. I have no idea how any of the vets I work with feel on the topic. The thought never crossed my mind to ask. Those of us up north seem to be more liberal when it comes to religion (at least according to studies and what is seen on the news) so I somehow doubt it will be as big as a deal. Interesting topic none the less. It gave me something to think about. I took Human Anatomy and Physiology and the topic of evolution never came up from what I remember. I never really made the connection that evolution can be used a tool to help people understand the anatomy and processes in animals. That is pretty nifty.
 
The bible was written by humans a long time ago. The humans at that time did not have the scientific perspective that we have today. Thus, humans long ago explained how the world works in terms of a god who made things happen (for example, that a god made the world in 7 days). We now have better explanations (big bang and evolution) because of centuries of scientific discovery and investigation. We no longer need to pretend that a magical being did these things. This can now be explained without a god. We have ample evidence for both micro and macro evolution. We have no evidence for magical beings. The bible is also chock full of other misinformation that does not translate into our modern life (that homosexuality is evil, spare the rod spoil the child, etc.) It is a shame that churches teach so strongly to this book to dictate how members should think and lead their lives. As humans we already have an innate sense of right and wrong and do not need an instruction manual. I would hope that anyone in a position of scientific expertise wouldn't be so foolish as to bring up creationism in front of a client. If I was that client, my "faith" in the vet would be greatly diminished.
 
would hope that anyone in a position of scientific expertise wouldn't be so foolish as to bring up creationism in front of a client. If I was that client, my "faith" in the vet would be greatly diminished.

Ditto. I wanted to add that to my blurb but thought it would be too far-fetched.
 
Once again I believe in variation within species. But a dog is a dog is a dog. You will never mate a dog to another dog and get some kind of transitional form, it will be 100% DOG.

The pug is a transitional form. The new species, if we kept mating pugs to pugs and never let them mate with other breeds of dogs ever, will be called Canis lupus ******edus

The bulldog's a great example, because we could probably actually speciate it more quickly than another type of dog. They already can't reproduce on their own so effectively there's a reproductive barrier. All it takes is just one change that rearranges the chromosomes a little that we keep propagating amongst bulldogs only and eventually the bulldog wouldn't be able to reproduce successfully, even artificially, with any other type of dog.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
The bible was written by humans a long time ago.

Wrong. The bible was written by a wizard. 👍

We no longer need to pretend that a magical being did these things.

You will be judged for these views in due time. 👍

This can now be explained without a god.

I disagree. I am an atheist, a Darwinist, and (I believe) a good person. I'm fascinated by the Miller-Urey experiment, by theories on the origin of life, and by the complexity of life on Earth. Science does not have these answers... at least not yet. That is why intelligent design and CrazyHorse are so dangerous. When we accept a limit to scientific discovery, we stop in our pursuit of truth.
 
I agree with you when it comes to you'r stance on evolution. However, you are extremely deceived about the inerrancy of the Bible. Do you honestly think that a Holy God who created this universe is not able to preserve a translation of His Word without error for His followers to go by? That would be preposterous to even entertain an idea such as that! And as far as delving more into the Bible is concerned, I have been in The Bible since I was 5 years old. I was raised in church and attended a Christian school. I more than likely have forgotten more about the Bible than you know. Also, I have been in college for 3 years now, so I have pretty well exhausted the facets of darwinism. And, yes God made the world in exactly 7 literal days. God means what He says, and says what He means. You have no right to allegorize the Bible without The Bible saying that a certain passage is strictly allegorical, as with the book of Revelation.

I'm Jewish. Here's a good example for you of a big mistake in translation of the old testament (or in my case the Torah). In Hebrew Adonai means G-d. The word has no gender. But when we translate it into English and other languages suddenly G-d becomes a masculine gender. I learned this as I was helping my synagogue raise money to buy gender-friendly prayer books back when I was in junior high.
 
Perpetual Labor - Yes, yes. I agree...no "proof" yet. That is why I use the word "explain" because we can use what we know and extrapolate, but not prove. I am an atheist too (obviously, I'm sure).
 
Of course creationists have been influenced by religious dogma, just as darwinists have been influenced by crackpot scientists trying to get rid of an authority that they will one day be held accountable by.

I started reading this thread and had to go grab a snack it was so great!!!

I like this part the best, where scientists are crackpots and we're all going to be judged.
 
So the Bible says you shouldn't eat shellfish and cloven hooved animals and you're allowed to sell your daughter into slavery.

Are these things okay and to be interpreted literally in our daily lives, RackingHorse?

In the time of the law some things were different. If Christ did not change them when He was on earth then they are still wrong. You will have to give me chapter and verse on selling my daughter to slavery.
 
Come on, RackingHorse...you have to be at least questioning your beliefs to some degree after so many people have pointed out the flaws in your thinking. You are young and have been indoctrinated and are doing an admirable job of defending what you have been taught. However, since you are young maybe you should defer your final word on the subject until you've been exposed to more people, more science, more information in your life. Oftentimes, moving away from home and family (and church) can open your eyes to things you never knew before. I'm not trying to be condescending...I just know from experience that this is how it often goes in life. Also, I do understand that there are people who are scientists who still do think the way you do. That may be the case for you, too, in the end.
 
I think the Galapagos finches emphasis the divergences of species from one common ancestor in an easy to understand way. This has been shown over and over again by using PCR and sequencing techniques. I don't see how people can look at evidence like this and still say species can't diverge. 🙄

imgres
 
"The Babel fish is small, yellow and leech-like, and probably the oddest thing in the universe. It feeds on brainwave energy received not from it's own carrier but from those around it. It absords all unconcious mental frequencies from this brainwave energy to nourish itself with. It then excretes into the mind of it's carrier a telepathic matrix formed by combining the conscious thought frequencies with nerve signals picked up from the speech centres of the brain which has supplied them.​
The pratical upshot of all this is that if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language. The speech patterns you actually hear decode the brainwave matrix which has been fed into your mind by your Babel fish.​
Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mindboggingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.​
The arguement goes something like this: 'I refuse to prove I exist,' says God, 'for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'​
'But,' says Man, 'the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguements, you don't. QED.'​
'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.​
'Oh, that was easy,' says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.​
Most leading theologians claim that this arguement is a load of dingo's kidneys, but that didn't stop Oolan Colluphid making a small fortune when he used it as the central theme of his best-selling book Well That About Wraps It Up For God.​
Meanwhile the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation."



​
 
In the time of the law some things were different. If Christ did not change them when He was on earth then they are still wrong. You will have to give me chapter and verse on selling my daughter to slavery.

Exodus 21:7 mentions selling your daughter into slavery.

The bible was written in a different time, and it was written by men which are not infallible. In my oppinion, some of the laws probably had bases in some sort of science. Such as pigs, cloven hooved animals, carry a lot of zoonotic disease. People back then didnt understand where that disease was coming from, so the animal was "unclean."

Some of the laws such as condoning slavery, even of ones daughter, were things that were acceptable back then, but not necessarily now... When reading anything you must look at the whole picture. If you just look at one verse of the bible then you lose the context. If you only look at the bible, seperate from history then you lose the context.

I think that science and God can exist together. Personally I find the intricate workings of the body and world amazing and evidence of God, And I can learn how these things work thanks to science.

I think as a veterinarian our responsibility is to learn that science, which does not interfere with our belief systems, and use that knowledge to help our patients. So to answer the original post. Religious affiliation or lack thereof should not hinder ones abilities as a veterinarian. We just have to respect eachother and do our jobs to the best of our abilities.

I also think that this thread has gone off topic.
 
“If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut if off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.”
- Matthew 18:8-9


So either you've never done anything wrong, or you're missing body parts?
 
"The Babel fish is small, yellow and leech-like, and probably the oddest thing in the universe. It feeds on brainwave energy received not from it's own carrier but from those around it. It absords all unconcious mental frequencies from this brainwave energy to nourish itself with. It then excretes into the mind of it's carrier a telepathic matrix formed by combining the conscious thought frequencies with nerve signals picked up from the speech centres of the brain which has supplied them.​
The pratical upshot of all this is that if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language. The speech patterns you actually hear decode the brainwave matrix which has been fed into your mind by your Babel fish.​
Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mindboggingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.​
The arguement goes something like this: 'I refuse to prove I exist,' says God, 'for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'​
'But,' says Man, 'the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguements, you don't. QED.'​
'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.​
'Oh, that was easy,' says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.​
Most leading theologians claim that this arguement is a load of dingo's kidneys, but that didn't stop Oolan Colluphid making a small fortune when he used it as the central theme of his best-selling book Well That About Wraps It Up For God.​
Meanwhile the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation."



​
Douglas Adams would be so proud to find himself quoted in a thread such as this. Perfect. Well Done!
 
In the time of the law some things were different. If Christ did not change them when He was on earth then they are still wrong. You will have to give me chapter and verse on selling my daughter to slavery.
How does God change his mind?

I am Christian, and do not believe in evolution. I accept it as fact, because it is. You are kind of making it difficult to be Christian. Also the "having forgotten more than you remember" is really inappropriate and lends 0 credibility to you.
 
“If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut if off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.”
- Matthew 18:8-9


So either you've never done anything wrong, or you're missing body parts?

Thats right!!!! It would be better for you to go through life blind, lame, and have no arms than it would be for you to go to hell. If your eyes are keeping you from getting saved or your hand or your leg you would be better off cutting it off than going to hell.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Thats right!!!! It would be better for you to go through life blind, lame, and have no arms than it would be for you to go to hell. If your eyes are keeping you from getting saved or your hand or your leg you would be better off cutting it off than going to hell.

Considering how snarky you've been in this thread should I assume you've removed your fingers?
 
Of course creationists have been influenced by religious dogma, just as darwinists have been influenced by crackpot scientists trying to get rid of an authority that they will one day be held accountable by.

1 Peter 2:1
1 Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind.

ETA: And might I suggest, if you believe the New Testament word for word, you're going into the wrong profession.

1 Timothy 2:11
11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

That's going to be a problem with all those female professors in vet school, isn't it?
 
Last edited:
How does God change his mind?

I am Christian, and do not believe in evolution. I accept it as fact, because it is. You are kind of making it difficult to be Christian. Also the "having forgotten more than you remember" is really inappropriate and lends 0 credibility to you.

To answer your question, there were rules in the old testament that are what is known as the law. When Christ came and lived on earth and was crucified he fulfilled every object of the law, because man was not able to live the law. God has not changed his mind about anything.

1 Peter 2:1

ETA: And might I suggest, if you believe the New Testament word for word, you're going into the wrong profession.

1 Timothy 2:11


That's going to be a problem with all those female professors in vet school, isn't it?

The verse is Timothy is talking about the order of worship in a church service, not vet school.
 
Thats right!!!! It would be better for you to go through life blind, lame, and have no arms than it would be for you to go to hell. If your eyes are keeping you from getting saved or your hand or your leg you would be better off cutting it off than going to hell.

It says, "Causes you to sin" not "Causes you to go to hell." So if you've ever sinned you should have gotten rid of those offending appendages. Ever hit your siblings as a kid? Chop!
 
It says, "Causes you to sin" not "Causes you to go to hell." So if you've ever sinned you should have gotten rid of those offending appendages. Ever hit your siblings as a kid? Chop!

Willfully sinning without repentance will cause you to go to hell!