Is Gi sedation with Anesthesia coming to an end?

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Am I out of date, or am I remembering correctly that Exparel is not approved for use in nerve blocks?
 
Ever do a triple re-do Ventral Hernia on a morbidly obese patient taking NORCO q 4 hours?

Yep. They get some dexmeditomidine and ketamine intraop and maybe even continue the dexmeditomidine postop. They never go to an ICU and they do great.
 
Yep. They get some dexmeditomidine and ketamine intraop and maybe even continue the dexmeditomidine postop. They never go to an ICU and they do great.


Really? Low Dose Ketamine and Precedex vs excellent analgesia with a Bilteral TAP block utilizing Exparel? It isn't even close in terms of analgesia but then again this isn't a family member or significant other we are talking about.

There is evidence that Exparel decreases length of stay at Duke and at my hospital as well because the Anesthesiologists are doing the TAP blocks correctly for the involved surgical area.
 
Ok, humor me a bit here.

Why add the steroid to exparel?

What's you mixture? Straight exparel or do you add something that allows for some immediate action as well?


Dexamethasone speeds the onset of the block and enhances the quality as well. Dexamethasone also decreases postop pain related to the Visceral fibers from the gut. I don't need to mix anything with my Exparel like Bupivacaine because I add the dexamethasone. I use PF NS combined with Exparel and Dexamethasone +/- Buprenorphine.
 
I thought detomidine/metdetomidine/dexmetdetomidine were supposed to be the miracle drugs that would revolutionize the industry years ago?

WRONG!

As many older textbooks have mentioned, this will revolutionize the future:

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Really? Low Dose Ketamine and Precedex vs excellent analgesia with a Bilteral TAP block utilizing Exparel? It isn't even close in terms of analgesia but then again this isn't a family member or significant other we are talking about.

There is evidence that Exparel decreases length of stay at Duke and at my hospital as well because the Anesthesiologists are doing the TAP blocks correctly for the involved surgical area.

1) we are talking about staying out of an ICU
2) Duke will probably get rid of Exparel in the near future because it hasn't provided benefit according to my colleagues there
3) TAP blocks don't do much of anything for a ventral hernia because they provide zero reliable analgesia above the umbilicus
 
1) we are talking about staying out of an ICU
2) Duke will probably get rid of Exparel in the near future because it hasn't provided benefit according to my colleagues there
3) TAP blocks don't do much of anything for a ventral hernia because they provide zero reliable analgesia above the umbilicus


1) At my Institution Exparel has provided real benefits including avoiding ICU stays or Step Down unit on the first night post surgery
2) Exparel has shortened length of stay by 1 day in many cases vs standard PCA IV at my hospital.
3) Tap blocks when performed correctly provide reliable anesthesia from T6-T9 (midline to the anterior axillary line). A skilled Anesthesiologist can place the TAP block with Exparel/Dexamethasone/Buprenorphine and even a wide open incision from T6-T12 will not prevent low post op pain scores in the PACU. The results are nothing short of astonishing in my opinion.

We have had committees review the benefits of Exparel by comparing data from patients and Pharmacy has approved its continued use at my hospital.
 
augmentation with a subcostal injection will help attain a higher block up to T7 which is a modification of the original technique in which the ultrasound probe is placed just beneath the costal margin and parallel to it. The needle is then introduced from the lateral side of the rectus muscle in the plane of the ultrasound beam and 10 ml of local injected into the TAP to extend the analgesia provided by the posterior tap block above the umbilicus.



Bilateral transversus abdominis plane block as a sole anesthetic technique in emergency surgery for perforative peritonitis in a high risk patient

http://www.joacp.org/article.asp?is...=29;issue=4;spage=540;epage=542;aulast=Mishra
 
TAP: A New Standard for Abdominal Surgery?

Loran Mounir Soliman, MD, Cleveland, Ohio



bbraun_55_01.jpg
IN THE NEAR FUTURE, NERVE BLOCKS MAY BE AS PREVALENT IN ABDOMINAL SURGERY as they are today in orthopedic surgery. At least that's what our experience here at the Cleveland Clinic indicates. For two years, we have been performing transversus abdominus plane (TAP) blocks for pain control after abdominal surgery. These blocks have been so successful that we now are exploring their use for new different indications in a large percentage of our abdominal surgery cases.

TAP blocks produce a sensory block of the anterior abdominal wall — namely, the lower six thoracic and upper lumbar abdominal afferents. Just like peripheral nerve blocks, TAP blocks effectively control pain, reducing the need for opioids and related side effects like drowsiness and PONV. These patients also typically do not require epidurals, so we also avoid side effects like urinary retention, hypotension, and delayed ambulation due to compromised lower extremity motor function.

Our first foray into TAP blocks consisted of single-shot blocks for minor procedures like inguinal hernia repair. They were so successful that we soon started using continuous TAP blocks (with indwelling catheters for two to three days) for more extensive procedures like kidney transplants, hysterectomies and colostomy closures.

More recently, we began using TAP blocks to treat chronic post-surgical anterior abdominal wall pain, which can develop in 10%-30% of patients after inguinal hernia repair, cholecystectomy and other laparoscopic procedures due to activation of peripheral sensory neurons or direct nerve injury during surgery. Traditionally, patients with this kind of pain have had to undergo the epidural differential test. However the interpretation of the differential epidural test sometimes is very confusing. It is time consuming (takes few hours) and it carries the limitations and disadvantages of neuroaxial. On the other hand, the TAP block provides near immediate diagnostic feedback, so we can pinpoint the source of the chronic pain much faster.

Ultrasound has been a big factor in our success. Traditionally, TAP block technique was blind; we used a blunt needle and confirmed needle placement by feeling double "pops" as the needle passed through the external and internal oblique muscles and fascia. Now, with ultrasound, we can visualize the different layers of muscle and can see both the needle position and the injection. This has made the technique much more reliable. We still use a blunt needle for the reassuring tactile feedback.

TAP blocks are so effective, and they are easier than ever to administer. If our experience here is any indication, TAP blocks are destined to experience a rapid rise in popularity equivalent to that of peripheral nerve blocks. And that will be a good thing for patients and practitioners.

Reference
Ref: Ultrasound-guided transversus abdominus plan block for the management of abdominal pain: An alternative to differential epidural block. Techniques in Regional Anesthesia and Pain Management, 2009: Volume 13, Issue 3, Pages 117-120 L. Soliman, S. Narouze

Dr. Mounir Soliman is Staff Anesthesiology Section Head for Orthopedic Anesthesia and Director of the Regional Anesthesia Fellowship at the Cleveland Clinic, Cleveland, Ohio.
 
1) At my Institution Exparel has provided real benefits including avoiding ICU stays or Step Down unit on the first night post surgery
2) Exparel has shortened length of stay by 1 day in many cases vs standard PCA IV at my hospital.
3) Tap blocks when performed correctly provide reliable anesthesia from T6-T9 (midline to the anterior axillary line). A skilled Anesthesiologist can place the TAP block with Exparel/Dexamethasone/Buprenorphine and even a wide open incision from T6-T12 will not prevent low post op pain scores in the PACU. The results are nothing short of astonishing in my opinion.
As far as LOS, we have seen decreased LOS with exparel as well, particularly with elderly pts undergoing major abdominal surgery
 
Back on topic, a frightening amount of elective GI procedures with ASA 1/2 and private insurances are handled at outpatient centers with solo CRNAs. The GI doctors pay the CRNA $150/hr and take the rest for themselves. And this is not limited to one area. The ASA 3/4 and medicare pt's are done at hospitals with the MDs.

GI anesthesia will definitely come to an end when a new colon cancer screening technique is approved. It is too cost prohibitive for everyone to have a screening colonoscopy especially with anesthesia. I think capsule endoscopy or CT colonoscopy will be big in 5-10 years.

Billions and Billions of dollars will be paid to GI doctors for anesthesia services they don't perform; instead, they charge full fare and pay the CRNA=MD at the head of the stretcher 20 cents on the dollar while they pocket the rest. Next time you read the AANA propaganda about "saving the system money" you will remenber the fact that no money is saved but rather transferred from one Physician (Anesthesiologist) to another (Gi) without the system saving a dime.

Gi docs or Colorectal Surgeons who own their own surgicenter while employing solo CRNAs routinely earn seven figures per year. I know a few earning in excess of $1.5 million per year.
 
Blade, as usual very comprehensive, thank you
Blade,

Totally agree that alfaxalone will make much of what we do as anesthesiologists obsolete. If you can give an anesthetic to patients who don't need paralysis without the need to secure an airway, you basically cut out at least 50% of our jobs we are tasked with. I can't believe more people aren't talking about this drug. It sounds to me to be a way better drug than propofol.
 
1. The success of sensory blocks is in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes, the beholder has really really bad judgement and thinks no or poor analgesia is great analgesia. And its hard to prove otherwise with multiple drugs being given, variations in patients pain tolerance and reporting abilities, ect.. Sometimes these blocks are helpful. But from my personal exp and all the colleagues I consider to be reasonable people, these tissue plane blocks are "50% of the time they work all the time" kind of thing. And Id bet on the beholders poor judgement before I believe its someones superior technique to dissect a non-visible tissue plane and inject.

2. Exparel has no evidence to support it (not produced by the company) Even the orthos near me have abandoned it despite they can bill for post-op analgesia. Another "beholder" subjective thing. I certainly would not call the stock a run away success. I would actually bet on it being worthless in a few years due to inefficacy compared to alternatives. Its probably still only on at certain hospitals because the docs there share the same delusion that it is working great and advocate for it. Give it time, the trend will pass fully.

3. PHAX. Seems like the next exparel. Its a new drug designed to improve upon an existing working drug (prop). It sounds to me like something that can easily be substituted with 6 of versed or 10 of etomidate and accomplish the same thing. Unless this has touched on a new mechanism of action (which it hasnt) the human body when anesthestized deeply enough will always need CV and airway support. Why dont you just breath everyone down with Sevo? It accomplishes your goals of no apnea and no paralysis and no need for airway support. Oh wait, what happens when I need to give fent for pain? Still cool with no airway? Why is this superior to a GI doc doing random sedation with versed and fent? patients dont remember anything there and maintain SV and dont have "burning on injection" which seems like a silly reason to reinvent the wheel.

4. I have said this before, I think we need to be SKEPTICAL about new advancements in the field before we dive right in and make changes to stuff that already works. Its shocking how little evidence and explanation can get very highly educated people to drink the cool-aid. My mind is open to changes in the field, believe me, but first new things are met with skepticism until proven otherwise. Why? Because the motivation of these companies developing these drugs is not to help people, its to make money. So its no surprise to me that the kool aid drinkers immediatly post the stock performance because they have the same motivation.
 
1. The success of sensory blocks is in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes, the beholder has really really bad judgement and thinks no or poor analgesia is great analgesia. And its hard to prove otherwise with multiple drugs being given, variations in patients pain tolerance and reporting abilities, ect.. Sometimes these blocks are helpful. But from my personal exp and all the colleagues I consider to be reasonable people, these tissue plane blocks are "50% of the time they work all the time" kind of thing. And Id bet on the beholders poor judgement before I believe its someones superior technique to dissect a non-visible tissue plane and inject.

2. Exparel has no evidence to support it (not produced by the company) Even the orthos near me have abandoned it despite they can bill for post-op analgesia. Another "beholder" subjective thing. I certainly would not call the stock a run away success. I would actually bet on it being worthless in a few years due to inefficacy compared to alternatives. Its probably still only on at certain hospitals because the docs there share the same delusion that it is working great and advocate for it. Give it time, the trend will pass fully.

3. PHAX. Seems like the next exparel. Its a new drug designed to improve upon an existing working drug (prop). It sounds to me like something that can easily be substituted with 6 of versed or 10 of etomidate and accomplish the same thing. Unless this has touched on a new mechanism of action (which it hasnt) the human body when anesthestized deeply enough will always need CV and airway support. Why dont you just breath everyone down with Sevo? It accomplishes your goals of no apnea and no paralysis and no need for airway support. Oh wait, what happens when I need to give fent for pain? Still cool with no airway? Why is this superior to a GI doc doing random sedation with versed and fent? patients dont remember anything there and maintain SV and dont have "burning on injection" which seems like a silly reason to reinvent the wheel.

4. I have said this before, I think we need to be SKEPTICAL about new advancements in the field before we dive right in and make changes to stuff that already works. Its shocking how little evidence and explanation can get very highly educated people to drink the cool-aid. My mind is open to changes in the field, believe me, but first new things are met with skepticism until proven otherwise. Why? Because the motivation of these companies developing these drugs is not to help people, its to make money. So its no surprise to me that the kool aid drinkers immediatly post the stock performance because they have the same motivation.


Hoya, if a ortho can give Phax IV in his office safely without you there for knee scopes - why would he pay you to be there?

Phax seems WAY different then propofol. It's therapeutic index/safety index is much much larger than propofol.

"the human body when anesthestized deeply enough will always need CV and airway support" - Not if new drugs don't suppress respiratory drive, or decrease CV system. That's the point. People "drink the cool aid" and will jump on this new drug because it will make them more money. Really smart people, just like normal smart people and dumb people are greedy. You think just drug companies have motivation to make more money? Uh.....think again.

Phax is privately owned by the way - no stock to buy. I wish that were otherwise.
 
"the human body when anesthestized deeply enough will always need CV and airway support" - Not if new drugs don't suppress respiratory drive, or decrease CV system.

Surely you've done enough MAC cases with propofol to realize that most of the patients who need airway intervention don't need it because of suppressed respiratory drive ... they need it because they obstruct. Usually all they need is a head tilt / chin lift or jaw thrust; sometimes they need an OPA or NPA. Rarely they need more.

But it's almost never a respiratory drive issue.

Call me a skeptic, but I don't see how a theoretically perfect drug (one that doesn't affect the CV system at all and doesn't suppress respiratory drive at all) is going to solve the actual airway problem that plagues MAC cases.
 
Surely you've done enough MAC cases with propofol to realize that most of the patients who need airway intervention don't need it because of suppressed respiratory drive ... they need it because they obstruct. Usually all they need is a head tilt / chin lift or jaw thrust; sometimes they need an OPA or NPA. Rarely they need more.

But it's almost never a respiratory drive issue.

Call me a skeptic, but I don't see how a theoretically perfect drug (one that doesn't affect the CV system at all and doesn't suppress respiratory drive at all) is going to solve the actual airway problem that plagues MAC cases.
Yeah let's hope you are right.
 
Doom and gloom. Guys, settle down. Let's see where this goes, look with optimism on new advances and realize that anesthesiologists will likely lead the introduction and management of these drugs as well.
 
1 Drug companies don't talk to me.
2 Whatever you are hearing does not sound very scientific.
3 I would like to meet this mythical anesthesiologist.

I have done ISB, Infraclav, femoral, popliteal and ACB with Exparel here in Texas. Our all MD group has embraced this new product for ortho, gen surg and also plastics. I haven't done TAPS blocks with exparel, but have done these other blocks for ortho procedures. I primarily do ortho because I have a passion for blocks. Within our group of anesthesiologists who do ortho, we routinely do these blocks. Yesterday one of my partners did a rotator cuff procedure and blocked the patient for post op pain with Exparel/bupivacaine at surgeons request. Tomorrow I am in an ortho room and one of my cases will be a rotator cuff repair which I will do ISB with exparel/bupivacaine for post op pain control at surgeons request. I routinely use Exparel for total knee, total shoulder, ankle fx, arm surgeries, ACL, rotator cuff - the usual stuff. There are five or so of us that do ortho every day and I am guessing that we have done maybe 300 - 400 blocks with exparel since last summer. The majority of the blocks are Adductor Canal blocks. We have some CV anesthesiologists who have used exparel for supraclavicular blocks for AV fistula cases (???) and for intercostal blocks for rib fractures too.

Maybe we could get a thread going for Q & A about Exparel...mythical anesthesiologist 🙂
 
I have done ISB, Infraclav, femoral, popliteal and ACB with Exparel here in Texas. Our all MD group has embraced this new product for ortho, gen surg and also plastics. I haven't done TAPS blocks with exparel, but have done these other blocks for ortho procedures. I primarily do ortho because I have a passion for blocks. Within our group of anesthesiologists who do ortho, we routinely do these blocks. Yesterday one of my partners did a rotator cuff procedure and blocked the patient for post op pain with Exparel/bupivacaine at surgeons request. Tomorrow I am in an ortho room and one of my cases will be a rotator cuff repair which I will do ISB with exparel/bupivacaine for post op pain control at surgeons request. I routinely use Exparel for total knee, total shoulder, ankle fx, arm surgeries, ACL, rotator cuff - the usual stuff. There are five or so of us that do ortho every day and I am guessing that we have done maybe 300 - 400 blocks with exparel since last summer. The majority of the blocks are Adductor Canal blocks. We have some CV anesthesiologists who have used exparel for supraclavicular blocks for AV fistula cases (???) and for intercostal blocks for rib fractures too.

Maybe we could get a thread going for Q & A about Exparel...mythical anesthesiologist 🙂

You, and Blade, should publish your data.
 
Just jumping back on here to update that we continue to use liposomal bupivacaine on many different blocks. Our ortho surgeons love the pain control the patients get with it as well as the duration of effect. We continue to do interscalene, supraclavicular, infraclavicular, femoral, adductor canal and popliteal blocks daily. The gassers on the general side are doing the blocks (TAPP, PEX1/2? -not sure about name since I don't perform these) for breast surgery and abdominal procedures with exparel. We have one person in the group doing exparel blocks for caesareans. I do ortho most days and continue to do every block mentioned above on the ortho side. Yesterday I did 2 hip replacements and the surgeon infiltrated a cocktail exparel/bupivacaine into the operative area. That was followed by 2 total knees that received adductor canal blocks with 50% exparel/bupivacaine. One total knee patient went home today (POD 1 !!!) and the other 3 patients are doing well or requiring small doses of oral pain meds. Our total shoulder patients that have been blocked with the liposomal bupivacaine cocktail are going home the evening of surgery or the next day as well. Overall, I think we have been very happy with exparel/bupivacaine blocks and more importantly - the patients are happy.
 
Just jumping back on here to update that we continue to use liposomal bupivacaine on many different blocks. Our ortho surgeons love the pain control the patients get with it as well as the duration of effect. We continue to do interscalene, supraclavicular, infraclavicular, femoral, adductor canal and popliteal blocks daily. The gassers on the general side are doing the blocks (TAPP, PEX1/2? -not sure about name since I don't perform these) for breast surgery and abdominal procedures with exparel. We have one person in the group doing exparel blocks for caesareans. I do ortho most days and continue to do every block mentioned above on the ortho side. Yesterday I did 2 hip replacements and the surgeon infiltrated a cocktail exparel/bupivacaine into the operative area. That was followed by 2 total knees that received adductor canal blocks with 50% exparel/bupivacaine. One total knee patient went home today (POD 1 !!!) and the other 3 patients are doing well or requiring small doses of oral pain meds. Our total shoulder patients that have been blocked with the liposomal bupivacaine cocktail are going home the evening of surgery or the next day as well. Overall, I think we have been very happy with exparel/bupivacaine blocks and more importantly - the patients are happy.

What duration are you getting for the extremity blocks?
 
Just like magnesium 🙄.
Sorry but when you do opiod free open hernias that's not the eye of the beholder.

what is your technique?

your preaching to the choir if you like minimizing opiates and using local anesthetics/blocks...but i do think that a small amount of narcotic has a beneficial role, way more of a role than mag.

i guess i just dont understand so badly needing to avoid 100-150 of fentanyl. is the goal to minimize narcotic, or provide a comfortable and effective anesthetic? people are going through surgery, give them a little opiate
 
Add a little Buprenorphine to your block mixture. The "cocktail" will provide 24 hours of pain relief for anything your block may have missed.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22504149

What This Article Tells Us That Is New

  • In contrast to other μ-opioid receptor agonists, buprenorphine potently blocked multiple isolated voltage-gated Na+channel subtypes and C-fiber action potentials

  • This use-dependent local anesthetic effect of buprenorphine could contribute to its analgesic and antihyperalgesic actions
 
G protein mediated anti hyperalgesia and local anesthesia mediated by na channels.

May be g protein is important in preemptive analgesia? Again my 2 cents
 
What duration are you getting for the extremity blocks?
We are seeing 2 plus days of pain control up to 3 days on the interscalenes. The adductor canal blocks can last 2 days up to 4 days. I had a popliteal block last 96 hours before it wore off. The infraclavs are lasting about the same as the others. I think that the closer to the nerve you are the longer the duration ( the company preached that to me on the 96 hour block).
 
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