Is hippotherapy considered clinical or non-clinical?

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USC 22

USC 22

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I feel like this is one of the grey areas (I am well aware of LizzM's "if you can smell the patients, it's clinical experience.")

Hippotherapy is therapy using horses for autistic children, or any children with motor or neurological disorders. I usually walked beside the horse and held the child so that they did not fall off of the horse during the therapy sessions with the physical therapist.

What do you guys think? I feel like the kids weren't technically "patients" so I'm not sure.
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USC 22 said:
I feel like this is one of the grey areas (I am well aware of LizzM's "if you can smell the patients, it's clinical experience.")

Hippotherapy is therapy using horses for autistic children, or any children with motor or neurological disorders. I usually walked beside the horse and held the child so that they did not fall off of the horse during the therapy sessions with the physical therapist.

What do you guys think? I feel like the kids weren't technically "patients" so I'm not sure.
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Sounds like non-clinical to me
 
Clinical.

But.... hippo? 😕

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SpecterGT260 said:
Clinical.

But.... hippo? 😕

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Hippo, derived from the greek word for horse 🙂

So one for clinical and one for non-clinical...
 
USC 22 said:
Hippo, derived from the greek word for horse 🙂

So one for clinical and one for non-clinical...
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Pre med input counts for 1/2 a point 😉.

Jk 😀

You are working in direct contact with patients at the point of care. It is clinical. This is how it should be listed on amcas.

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SpecterGT260 said:
Pre med input counts for 1/2 a point 😉.

Jk 😀

You are working in direct contact with patients at the point of care. It is clinical. This is how it should be listed on amcas.

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You sound pretty confident. Thank you to you both 👍
 
I would vote non-clinical as well. To me, clinical implies that you are in a healthcare setting (hospital, clinic, health fair). This seems like a bit of a stretch.
 
I would go with "volunteer, non-clinical". People with chronic conditions are, in my opinion, "patients" when they are receiving clinical services in settings where they see physicians or require a doctor's order (a prescription) and "people" the rest of the time. For example, I would not expect that teaching classes to kids in wheelchairs to be "clinical" just because the kid has a disability.

Involving horses in physical therapy seems like a lot of trouble if the goal is improved physical function. If the goal is to provide an enjoyable and safe recreational experience for a kid with a disability, then helping the kid sit on a horse and walking the horse around a ring makes a little more sense.
 
LizzyM said:
I would go with "volunteer, non-clinical". People with chronic conditions are, in my opinion, "patients" when they are receiving clinical services in settings where they see physicians or require a doctor's order (a prescription) and "people" the rest of the time. For example, I would not expect that teaching classes to kids in wheelchairs to be "clinical" just because the kid has a disability.

Involving horses in physical therapy seems like a lot of trouble if the goal is improved physical function. If the goal is to provide an enjoyable and safe recreational experience for a kid with a disability, then helping the kid sit on a horse and walking the horse around a ring makes a little more sense.
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This trumps me 😳

However I am aware of animal therapies used for kids with cognitive impairments as a part of treatment (I was actually thinking autism and the animal therapies they use when I first answered, i re read). Im not sure how this is less clinical than changing bed sheets in the ER. However I think this is done more in psychology.

Lizzy, is there harm in labeling something in a gray area as clinical when it isn't?

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LizzyM said:
I would go with "volunteer, non-clinical". People with chronic conditions are, in my opinion, "patients" when they are receiving clinical services in settings where they see physicians or require a doctor's order (a prescription) and "people" the rest of the time. For example, I would not expect that teaching classes to kids in wheelchairs to be "clinical" just because the kid has a disability.

Involving horses in physical therapy seems like a lot of trouble if the goal is improved physical function. If the goal is to provide an enjoyable and safe recreational experience for a kid with a disability, then helping the kid sit on a horse and walking the horse around a ring makes a little more sense.
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Couldn't the reason for horse riding be to lift depression or bring the rider to a greater level of functioning from their usual baseline stats?

It seems to me like although one shouldn't consider the riders "patients" during the ride, or the entire thing as a "treatment", but the volunteer is gaining valuable clinical knowledge and interpersonal skills with dealing with possible future medical subjects. I would have called it clinical volunteering because you are close enough to smell the patient, regardless of it being a hospital setting or not, and regardless of an acute injury or not.
 
LizzyM said:
I would go with "volunteer, non-clinical". People with chronic conditions are, in my opinion, "patients" when they are receiving clinical services in settings where they see physicians or require a doctor's order (a prescription) and "people" the rest of the time. For example, I would not expect that teaching classes to kids in wheelchairs to be "clinical" just because the kid has a disability.

Involving horses in physical therapy seems like a lot of trouble if the goal is improved physical function. If the goal is to provide an enjoyable and safe recreational experience for a kid with a disability, then helping the kid sit on a horse and walking the horse around a ring makes a little more sense.
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In summary, the way a horse walks is similar to the way a human walks. Someone with motor development issues can sit on the horse to give the child the experience and sensation of walking (which supposedly helps with motor, neurological, and cognitive function). I'm not saying this is effective or non-effective. This is just what I have been told (I haven't read any literature about it so I have no opinion about it yet).

Also, I'd like to know what the above poster asked as well. Is there any harm if you label something as clinical, when it's actually non-clinical? I would assume it would only be harmful if it's obvious the applicant was just trying to fill up clinical spots, when clearly they weren't (like labeling an animal shelter as clinical experience 😀).
 
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There are plenty of jobs where you interact with people and gain interpersonal skills and knowledge of clinial conditions (I worked in my dad's retail establishment as a kid and interacted with customers who had schizophrenia, cancer, congenital deafness, uncorrected scoliosis, OCD, etc.)

The risk of labeling something clinical when it is not is that you may give the impression that you have little or no clinical experience and that you are "reaching" by calling a sports program "clinical". Better to label it "non-clinical" and have someone be impressed by what you accomplished than to say "clinical" and have someone scoff that it isn't really clinical.

Keep in mind, too, that adcoms are looking for both clinical experiences (to give you an idea of what practicing medicine is all about and it is about service to others among other things) and non-clinical volunteer experiences as a measure of altruism.
 
Clinical imo. Pretty cool too.

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I volunteer with a therapeutic riding facility as well (awesome suff, if anybody is interested!) and I'm going to list it as non-clinical. We receive a huge spectrum of riders: autistic children, paraplegics, wounded veterans, and even a 92-year-old lady who was looking for a safe and controlled way to ride a horse. I divide my time pretty much equally between working with the riders and exercising the horses.

While I work with a licensed social worker and a physical therapist while with a rider, the riders are generally referred to as "clients" and not "patients." The lessons are regarded by the staff as well as the riders to be a physically/mentally beneficial activity, not a medical treatment session.

I view it kind of like doing art, music, or dance therapy at a hospital or assisted-living center. It's great stuff, but not exactly the cut-and-dry "clinical experience" that people usually associate with medical apps. (I'm not an expert on the application process, though!)
 
hellanutella said:
I volunteer with a therapeutic riding facility as well (awesome suff, if anybody is interested!) and I'm going to list it as non-clinical. We receive a huge spectrum of riders: autistic children, paraplegics, wounded veterans, and even a 92-year-old lady who was looking for a safe and controlled way to ride a horse. I divide my time pretty much equally between working with the riders and exercising the horses.

While I work with a licensed social worker and a physical therapist while with a rider, the riders are generally referred to as "clients" and not "patients." The lessons are regarded by the staff as well as the riders to be a physically/mentally beneficial activity, not a medical treatment session.

I view it kind of like doing art, music, or dance therapy at a hospital or assisted-living center. It's great stuff, but not exactly the cut-and-dry "clinical experience" that people usually associate with medical apps. (I'm not an expert on the application process, though!)
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For things that you could list as clinical or non-clinical, it's always better to list it as whichever you have less experience in. Makes your app look more well rounded.
 
MedPR said:
For things that you could list as clinical or non-clinical, it's always better to list it as whichever you have less experience in. Makes your app look more well rounded.
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Good idea. I have 10 clinical related vs. 3 non-clinical, so I think the answer is pretty clear 😀
 
h21EF6157


Is this close to what you do?
 
USC 22 said:
Hippo, derived from the greek word for horse 🙂

So one for clinical and one for non-clinical...
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yup! 🙂 I always think of hippopotamus when I see the root hippo. However, hippos means horse and potamos means river. Thus, the meaning of hippopotamus from its roots means river horse. :laugh:
 
Wait For It said:
yup! 🙂 I always think of hippopotamus when I see the root hippo. However, hippos means horse and potamos means river. Thus, the meaning of hippopotamus from its roots means river horse. :laugh:
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Excellent answer.
 
If this helps at all-- I volunteered at a center for children with mental disabilities, and over there, it wasn't exactly a "clinic," it was actually more like a center with nurses/child care specialists/other medical staff to take care of the children over-night (or throughout the day). Since it wasn't labeled as an actual clinic where the kids are treated medically, I'll be listing it as "non-clinical."
 
LizzyM said:
I would go with "volunteer, non-clinical". People with chronic conditions are, in my opinion, "patients" when they are receiving clinical services in settings where they see physicians or require a doctor's order (a prescription) and "people" the rest of the time. For example, I would not expect that teaching classes to kids in wheelchairs to be "clinical" just because the kid has a disability.

Involving horses in physical therapy seems like a lot of trouble if the goal is improved physical function. If the goal is to provide an enjoyable and safe recreational experience for a kid with a disability, then helping the kid sit on a horse and walking the horse around a ring makes a little more sense.
Click to expand...


Sorry but I think you have a very poor idea of what hippotherapy is. It's actually a fairly common physical therapy technique for autism and disorders involving motor dysfunctions although it's not often covered by insurance. What this student was participating in was active physical therapy with patients. Not at all similar to teaching a class to bunch of kids in wheelchairs or happening to interact with people with certain conditions while working in a retail establishment.

http://www.rush.edu/rumc/page-1239655964349.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippotherapy

Whether you list it as clinical or non-clinical won't really matter much I think, either way it'll make a nice talking point on your app.
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
Sorry but I think you have a very poor idea of what hippotherapy is. It's actually a fairly common physical therapy technique for autism and disorders involving motor dysfunctions although it's not often covered by insurance. What this student was participating in was active physical therapy with patients. Not at all similar to teaching a class to bunch of kids in wheelchairs or happening to interact with people with certain conditions while working in a retail establishment.

http://www.rush.edu/rumc/page-1239655964349.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippotherapy

Whether you list it as clinical or non-clinical won't really matter much I think, either way it'll make a nice talking point on your app.
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This is what I thought it was which is why I called it clinical.

That said, if an adcom doesn't know what it is it may be better to reclassify it. Although amcas gives ample space to define it.

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calvnandhobbs68 said:
Sorry but I think you have a very poor idea of what hippotherapy is. It's actually a fairly common physical therapy technique for autism and disorders involving motor dysfunctions although it's not often covered by insurance. What this student was participating in was active physical therapy with patients. Not at all similar to teaching a class to bunch of kids in wheelchairs or happening to interact with people with certain conditions while working in a retail establishment.

http://www.rush.edu/rumc/page-1239655964349.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippotherapy

Whether you list it as clinical or non-clinical won't really matter much I think, either way it'll make a nice talking point on your app.
Click to expand...

And there you have a pretty good definition of what is clinical and what is not....
 
LizzyM said:
And there you have a pretty good definition of what is clinical and what is not....
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Uh what? I didn't know insurance coverage dictated clinical classification...you realize you can pay out of pocket for procedures not covered by insurance right? I'll make sure to tell all the plastic surgeons, dermatologists and ophthalmologists doing cash procedures that what they do doesn't constitute clinical work.

Also, many ancillary services received very poor insurance coverage until recently. Are you saying because my parent's insurance didn't cover my autistic brother's speech therapy when he was young that the services provided weren't clinical? Please.
 
Do insurance companies cover any derm services? Yes, they do, my daughter had some visits that were fully covered.

Do insurance companies cover any plastics? Yes, they do, when the service is needed to restore what was lost. (not included lost youth)

Do insurance companies cover an ophtho? Yes, they do, as anyone who had had a detatched retina knows.

Does insurance cover some speech therapy? Yes, it does, if you have deficits from a stroke.

I've had physical therapy after an injury and it was covered by insurance.

Does insurance cover hippotherapy?????
 
LizzyM said:
Do insurance companies cover any derm services? Yes, they do, my daughter had some visits that were fully covered.

Do insurance companies cover any plastics? Yes, they do, when the service is needed to restore what was lost. (not included lost youth)

Do insurance companies cover an ophtho? Yes, they do, as anyone who had had a detatched retina knows.

Does insurance cover some speech therapy? Yes, it does, if you have deficits from a stroke.

I've had physical therapy after an injury and it was covered by insurance.

Does insurance cover hippotherapy?????
Click to expand...

It covers preventative chiropractic adjustment in several states.

I don't think we are looking for a precedent here.... but several of us view this as a supplementary therapy for young patients with cognitive and motor impairment. It is even point of care. I can see the argument for labeling it both ways and a third that says "it doesnt really matter which".

Based on your input, if I were the OP I would list it as non clinical. Id rather have an adcom member argue it into clinical than out of clinical when discussing my file. But all the same.... this one is pretty close either way

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calvnandhobbs68 said:
Uh what? I didn't know insurance coverage dictated clinical classification...you realize you can pay out of pocket for procedures not covered by insurance right? I'll make sure to tell all the plastic surgeons, dermatologists and ophthalmologists doing cash procedures that what they do doesn't constitute clinical work.

Also, many ancillary services received very poor insurance coverage until recently. Are you saying because my parent's insurance didn't cover my autistic brother's speech therapy when he was young that the services provided weren't clinical? Please.
Click to expand...

LizzyM said:
And there you have a pretty good definition of what is clinical and what is not....
Click to expand...

*grabs popcorn*
 
LizzyM said:
Do insurance companies cover any derm services? Yes, they do, my daughter had some visits that were fully covered.

Do insurance companies cover any plastics? Yes, they do, when the service is needed to restore what was lost. (not included lost youth)

Do insurance companies cover an ophtho? Yes, they do, as anyone who had had a detatched retina knows.

Does insurance cover some speech therapy? Yes, it does, if you have deficits from a stroke.

I've had physical therapy after an injury and it was covered by insurance.

Does insurance cover hippotherapy?????
Click to expand...

I really can't believe you're trying to argue this and not just admit you had no idea what hippotherapy was.

First of all, when talking about whether something is covered or not covered by insurance coverage, we have to figure out what coverage we're talking about. Until the past two years, minimal insurance coverage regulations were quite lax. Are we talking about basic crap insurance that somebody bought by themselves in an exchange? Are we talking about premium Blue Cross/Blue Shield insurance that the CEO of GE is getting? Are we talking about Medicare? Medicaid? Tricare? You'll realize that trying to classify anything based on "insurance coverage" is ridiculous and that was exactly my point with my initial sentence.

Secondly, using your reasoning, does whoever's insurance we're talking about cover physical/occupational therapy? Just like a facelift is in the category of "plastics" services along with burn treatment, hippotherapy is in the category of physical therapy services. I think many families of children who undergo treatments which are denied by their insurance companies and the licensed providers (OTs, PTs, SLPs) who provide such treatments would be quite insulted that you would consider these therapies "non-clinical".
 
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SpecterGT260 said:
It covers preventative chiropractic adjustment in several states.

I don't think we are looking for a precedent here.... but several of us view this as a supplementary therapy for young patients with cognitive and motor impairment. It is even point of care. I can see the argument for labeling it both ways and a third that says "it doesnt really matter which".

Based on your input, if I were the OP I would list it as non clinical. Id rather have an adcom member argue it into clinical than out of clinical when discussing my file. But all the same.... this one is pretty close either way

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My best bet is nonclinical + clinical = semiclinical = nonclinical.
 
Go ahead and call it clinical.... you are going to be up against adcom members (mostly physicians) who aren't very familiar with hippotherpy and will suspect you of calling it "clinical" because your application is light on clinical items. If they don't like it... what do you think will happen? I'm only trying to protect you from yourselves.


I think that when the people being served are not called "patients" you are going to have a harder time calling something a clinical experinence. Remember you have to be close enough to smell patients (not clients) for it to be a clinical experience.
 
They aren't patients in this case? 😕

I didn't think these were for profit services.

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SpecterGT260 said:
They aren't patients in this case? 😕

I didn't think these were for profit services.

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I don't know if it really matters. Like I mentioned, even the OTs/PTs/SLPs who see patients in inpatient settings (where I don't know how they could be anything except patients) refer to the patients as "clients".

OP I'd just list it as non-clinical and explain it well. No need to get hung up in the confusion. Like I said, it'll make a good talking point either way.
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
I don't know if it really matters. Like I mentioned, even the OTs/PTs/SLPs who see patients in inpatient settings (where I don't know how they could be anything except patients) refer to the patients as "clients".

OP I'd just list it as non-clinical and explain it well. No need to get hung up in the confusion. Like I said, it'll make a good talking point either way.
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Agreed.
 
Cinclus said:
Hippotherapy is veterinary.
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Not necessarily.

I've volunteered at plenty of animal shelters and wouldn't consider that veterinary. Just means you like animals 😀
 
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I know this is an old thread, but some of the people here are severly misinformed about hippotherapy. I would absolutely cover it under clinical if you worked with a licensed PT certified in hippotherapy. Hippotherapy is making great strides to advocate their treatments but they bill NMRE, there ex and ther act. Please before commenting on a style of treatment, look it up. Visit the American Hippotherapy Association. It is not therapeutic riding. Patients can have cerebral palsy, those with muscular dystrophy, autistic with motor impairments....also if you are going to be clinicians, learn to respect other treatment types and other professions. Lastly, because something is not covered by insurance doesn't mean that it isn't clinical. Many things had to be fought to be covered by showing the medical benefits of the treatment type. Just because insurance companies deny things, doesn't dictate clinical vs malarkey ...

Oh, and it is not physical therapy on a horse. That can be done, some great body work is the Masterson Method...but please, educate yourselves.
 
Berburr said:
I know this is an old thread, but some of the people here are severly misinformed about hippotherapy. I would absolutely cover it under clinical if you worked with a licensed PT certified in hippotherapy. Hippotherapy is making great strides to advocate their treatments but they bill NMRE, there ex and ther act. Please before commenting on a style of treatment, look it up. Visit the American Hippotherapy Association. It is not therapeutic riding. Patients can have cerebral palsy, those with muscular dystrophy, autistic with motor impairments....also if you are going to be clinicians, learn to respect other treatment types and other professions. Lastly, because something is not covered by insurance doesn't mean that it isn't clinical. Many things had to be fought to be covered by showing the medical benefits of the treatment type. Just because insurance companies deny things, doesn't dictate clinical vs malarkey ...

Oh, and it is not physical therapy on a horse. That can be done, some great body work is the Masterson Method...but please, educate yourselves.
Click to expand...

Many adcoms are misinformed about hippotherapy. I've heard the discussions in adcom meetings where someone has hippotherapy listed as a clinical experience in the absence of other clinical experiences and the result is not pretty. Far better to call it "non-clinical" and be lauded for it as a service to others than to try to pass it off as an experience that informs one of what physicians do and the environment in which physicians practice.
 
Berburr said:
I know this is an old thread, but some of the people here are severly misinformed about hippotherapy. I would absolutely cover it under clinical if you worked with a licensed PT certified in hippotherapy. Hippotherapy is making great strides to advocate their treatments but they bill NMRE, there ex and ther act. Please before commenting on a style of treatment, look it up. Visit the American Hippotherapy Association. It is not therapeutic riding. Patients can have cerebral palsy, those with muscular dystrophy, autistic with motor impairments....also if you are going to be clinicians, learn to respect other treatment types and other professions. Lastly, because something is not covered by insurance doesn't mean that it isn't clinical. Many things had to be fought to be covered by showing the medical benefits of the treatment type. Just because insurance companies deny things, doesn't dictate clinical vs malarkey ...

Oh, and it is not physical therapy on a horse. That can be done, some great body work is the Masterson Method...but please, educate yourselves.
Click to expand...
How is a treatment done on a horse by a certified PT not classified as PT on a horse?
 
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