Is honoring a talent?

[GrammCracker]

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I'm becoming very frustrated with myself because no matter how much effort I put into studying for an exam, I always fall into the same grade range (pass). I keep up with the material, read review books, look at old exams, etc and yet my grades are mediocre at best compared to my classmates. I don't want to be on the top or anything, but the only thing I’m worried about is residency. Then someone told me that I should stop beating myself up because according to them, honoring tests is a talent that some people have and others don’t. I’ve never heard this before. Any opinions?

 

[blurry]

Then someone told me that I should stop beating myself up because according to them, honoring tests is a talent that some people have and others don't. I've never heard this before. Any opinions?

Either you're among the smartest in an incredibly bright pool of people, or you're not. Hard work can only get you so far when you are surrounded by so many intelligent individuals.

 

[Med01]

Several of my classmates who were doing well told me that you need to know how the professor is thinking, and what is important material is important to them. One told me that when reading the question on an exam (sometimes it's ambiguously written), you need to really get inside the question writers head. And another classmate told me that a professor with a certain personal background with a disease would write a question about that because it was important to him.

Another classmate who did well told me that XX professor is really detailed and nit-picky (they taught some physio). While most other professors wrote concept and general principle based exam questions. So I studied that exam like you would study histo. And did well on that exam.

Some other people who did well told me they go to lecture to watch the professors body language - if that professor wrote something down, that item would be on the exam.

I found that old exams are key in this regard. It tells you if the professor is a detail or concept oriented person, and if certain concepts keep on appearing on old exams, you should know those cold.

So it's about mind-reading, seeing if that professor for e.g. writes clinically-oriented questions, or detailed basic science (if they're a Ph.D. and talk about their research a lot, probably it will be more basic science detailed stuff) It's takes some skill to mind-read.

 

[SomeDoc]

It's more a skill that you acquire than it is a talent. You have to study hard, AND study smart. Basically if you want to honor, you've got to know all the small details for the tests. What it comes down to ultimately is that you've got to have a system for memorization which works best for you that'll help you remember all the minutiae in addition to the meat and bones of the material.

P.S. If you know it all for the specific test- and some will say that you can't (I disagree with this)- you won't have to play any mind-reading games b.s. or gamble on what questions the professor will ask on tests.

 

[urgentcase]

I'm becoming very frustrated with myself because no matter how much effort I put into studying for an exam, I always fall into the same grade range (pass). I keep up with the material, read review books, look at old exams, etc and yet my grades are mediocre at best compared to my classmates. I don't want to be on the top or anything, but the only thing I'm worried about is residency. Then someone told me that I should stop beating myself up because according to them, honoring tests is a talent that some people have and others don't. I've never heard this before. Any opinions?

that is the ____ thing that I've heard. Honoring comes from hard work. There is no secret to it, those that studied for the USMLE for 7 months will honor it... One thing to realize though is that unless you came from an IV league college, you are not used to the kind of environment that surrounds you in terms of the smarts of the folks around, and of course your performance is gaged against this kind of standard... so in reality you are doing extremely well, it just gets lost amongst all the "excellence" around. The other answer of course is that the exams 3rd year don't have a fixed set of material (ie the shelves test just about anything) so you can't just study for an exam...have to have a certain level of medical maturity to do well on these exams...and that comes with time. There will be people in your class who already have it not b/c they somehow got in the past 3 or 4 months but b/c they spent their basic science years already learning this while most of us were struggling with the basic science material. So they are just ahead in interms of training years. don't sweat it...

 

[remo]

I have finally gotten into the honors range on the last couple exams and it is basically what the others here have said - you need to know ALL the details. Basically I went through all the resources: textbooks, review books, core notes, powerpoints, old exams, and review sheets made by other students in the class. Everything you can get your hands on has some little detail that might help push you over the top on a particular question.

 

[45408]

Honoring comes from hard work. There is no secret to it

If that were the case, then you wouldn't have people who can honor exams without much effort. But they exist, so your point is moot.

 

[dr1day]

I find it funny that urgentcase is giving advice on how to succeed in med school seeing how he's about to get kicked out, but I did agree with his statement that you're probably doing well, but it gets lost in the sea of excellence. In fact, I just had this same conversation with my mentor. I went to her because, although I'm nowhere near failing, I'm also nowhere near the top of my class. I've been out of school for 10 years and she told me that 1) I can't compare myself to the students who just graduated because the information is fresher in their minds. That's just a fact. 2) Most people in med school are used to being the "smartest" person in any given room, so when you get all of us together, it's tougher to be at the top. That doesn't mean that I'm dumb. It's kind of like the Olympics. Even the person who comes in 5th or 6th place in the 100 yard dash ran pretty damn fast compared to the average person. Their performance wasn't good enough for a medal, but it was still pretty impressive.

That was all a long-winded way to say: As long as you're doing YOUR best, you should be proud of yourself. Now, of course, if you want to do derm, ortho, or rad, you'll need to figure out how to get to the top of the class and unfortunately, I don't have any advice for you.

 

[Noeljan]

hey
i can't speak for anyone but myself, I get high grades on most things thus far, and I would say that it is a matter of keeping up. I attend all lectures (usually), and study every day (usually). I don't read any text books, but rather the notes/syllabus they give us for each course. I actually like googling things if I need a visual of any sort. Just keep up more, and try to undertstand and memorize things. Keep up, my viewpoint is that I am in medical school to work. If you have any questions, ask your profs. Ours are very helpful.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

I don't know if "honoring" is a talent, but getting into a prof's head is. In my class, there are a couple of kids who exemplify this. Both get lots of "honors", both really smart. However, one does well because he studies EVERYTHING. Every little bit of minutiea. The other is more focused. It's almost eerie. It's like he already knows that he only needs to know the concepts from lecture 26 because the questions will be on that, but he knows to have every line of every slide memorized from lecture 27.

 

[Green Chimneys]

Oddly enough, I find that my study habits for a particular class do not have much correlation to my grade on the exam. I can study my pants off, study my average amount, or spend most of my time playing video games and going out on the weekdays and I always end up near the 65-70th percentile of the class distribution (pass...top 10% get H here and next 15% get HP). However, I DO find that my study habits have a correlation to how well I remember things weeks, months, or even a year after the exam. Thus, in the interest of the ever approaching usmle, I try to at least put in a moderate to high effort despite the lack of tangible results.

I guess what I'm saying is that I agree with the OP to a point. Also I wouldn't concern yourself too much with your grades during the first two years. Unless they are very good or very bad, they will not stand out on a residency application near as much as other factors.

 

[bubbachuck]

If that were the case, then you wouldn't have people who can honor exams without much effort. But they exist, so your point is moot.

out of curiosity, does anyone know anyone that honors without much work for a fact? i know people who honor, but I'm almost pretty sure they bust their ass to do it. i have a feeling that there's this mythos about people who can honor without trying but i feel like these are the people who just lock themselves up in their rooms or go to an off-campus library to study. their classmates just assume they don't try because they don't see them in the same places they themselves study in. make sense?

so to answer the OP's point, no i don't think it's a talent. people in medical school are all intelligent enough to master this material...i mean is anything really conceptually difficult (at this point I have to say I've only taken anatomy and cell & tissue...also I'm assuming the OP is talking about the basic sciences in years 1 and 2 here). it's not like we're taking astrophysics or theoretical math. it just takes 3-5 hours of studying a day to do it. draw the pathways, redraw, then draw them again. read over the notes again. listen to the lectures online again. "semi-studying" while talking with friends or repeatedly checking e-mail is going to make 3-5 hours seem much longer...

so: any personal anecdotes out there with evidence of "not much effort"=honors?

i have a feeling it's going to be reserved for actual geniuses

 

[Dr. McDreamy]

If that were the case, then you wouldn't have people who can honor exams without much effort. But they exist, so your point is moot.

People who can honor exams without much effort have photographic memories. I have a friend who is a very smart guy. He just reads the book and he knows it. When i read the book, i retain 10%. Just like some of us can write music better than other, run better than others, etc, some of us are just better at memorizing. When you get to the level of med school where people are this smart, the person who can memorize the little details more efficaciously has the winning edge. I never honor exams because I have difficulty memorizing things. In college I did well by studying harder than everyone else and making flashcards on EVERYTHING. in med school, no matter how hard i try, there just isn't enough hours in the day for me to memorize enough to honor. Just like I will never be an olympic athlete, I will also never be AOA. so i just decided to relax and be happy with passes and cross derm/ortho/optho off my list

 

[ZagDoc]

I mean this in the most modest way possible, but honoring comes easy to me. I put in my hours, but there are easily classmates of mine that are at the library when I get there and still there when I leave. I'm probably average in the hours I come in. How much of this is talent and how much of this is good study instincts cultivated by years of private education? I don't know. All I know if I have an easy time narrowing down the likely answers, and when I go guess, I guess right most of the time. I have a classmate who I study with who is constantly schooling me on answers and filling in the details for me, but I always test better then them.

Hard work is always a good bet, but multiple choice exams just click with some people more than others. That being said, now is not the time to worry about residency. Learn your material for the boards and for the sake of applying them on the wards. Acing the boards and shining on the wards are what will really get you that gold star. Personally I suck when I get pimped. I always misunderstand the question or have to think too long. But I'll test above 97%. It all comes down to peoples skills.

 

[Chris Knight]

People who can honor exams without much effort have photographic memories. I have a friend who is a very smart guy. He just reads the book and he knows it. When i read the book, i retain 10%. Just like some of us can write music better than other, run better than others, etc, some of us are just better at memorizing.

Its all about the rate of retention. I've had it easy throughout my education as I rarely ever have to read over anything more than once to have it down cold (though I will admit I read as slow as molasses.) I've honored all my tests in gross, embryo and molecular bio so far without putting in more than a weekend for anatomy and a day for each of the others. I am by no means making 100s, but it looks like 92-95 is my area. This is even with skipping lectures and goofing off in lab. I'll take a peak at the syllabus etc every so often throughout when I get that feeling that I'm "supposed" to be doing something, but for the most part that 1-3 days of studying is the first time I'll have ever seen the material. Nobody admires such a talent, rather they are envious/hateful. I experienced that in undergrad and have since made it a point to NEVER talk about my grades. Nobody likes the slacker who is outscoring them. One day I'll muster up the drive to put in as much work as my peers and we'll see just what I can really do.

 

[Noeljan]

I mean this in the most modest way possible, but honoring comes easy to me. I put in my hours, but there are easily classmates of mine that are at the library when I get there and still there when I leave. I'm probably average in the hours I come in. How much of this is talent and how much of this is good study instincts cultivated by years of private education? I don't know. All I know if I have an easy time narrowing down the likely answers, and when I go guess, I guess right most of the time. I have a classmate who I study with who is constantly schooling me on answers and filling in the details for me, but I always test better then them.

Hard work is always a good bet, but multiple choice exams just click with some people more than others. That being said, now is not the time to worry about residency. Learn your material for the boards and for the sake of applying them on the wards. Acing the boards and shining on the wards are what will really get you that gold star. Personally I suck when I get pimped. I always misunderstand the question or have to think too long. But I'll test above 97%. It all comes down to peoples skills.

just wanted to give my fellow public schoolers a bit of hope. I went to a state school and I am doing great🙂 Top grades are by no means reserved for the private school/IVY league people. Not trying to start anything, but just wanted to throw that out there. If you are starting med school coming from a state school there is no reason you can't be up there in grades🙂

 

[SomeDoc]

out of curiosity, does anyone know anyone that honors without much work for a fact? i know people who honor, but I'm almost pretty sure they bust their ass to do it. i have a feeling that there's this mythos about people who can honor without trying but i feel like these are the people who just lock themselves up in their rooms or go to an off-campus library to study. their classmates just assume they don't try because they don't see them in the same places they themselves study in. make sense?...

...so: any personal anecdotes out there with evidence of "not much effort"=honors?

i have a feeling it's going to be reserved for actual geniuses

Yes, you basically have to work your a$$ off to know everything for the test. There's no "secret" or "shortcut." The difference between honors and not getting honors is how you manage to remember everything.

 

[Law2Doc]

Either you're among the smartest in an incredibly bright pool of people, or you're not. Hard work can only get you so far when you are surrounded by so many intelligent individuals.

This is certainly true, but there are always tweaks to your approach you can do to get a few more points. Getting inside your prof's head is nice if you have a single person making up questions, but when questions are done by committee, or, for all you know, being made up by some grad student working for some of the professors that won't really be fruitful. There will always be people for whom it comes easier and those for whom it won't. Take solace in the fact that the basic science years simply don't count as much as other things, and if you can do solidly on the USMLE and get good rotation evals, you will still be in good shape for most paths.

 

[tony montana]

Its all about the rate of retention. I've had it easy throughout my education as I rarely ever have to read over anything more than once to have it down cold (though I will admit I read as slow as molasses.) I've honored all my tests in gross, embryo and molecular bio so far without putting in more than a weekend for anatomy and a day for each of the others. I am by no means making 100s, but it looks like 92-95 is my area. This is even with skipping lectures and goofing off in lab. I'll take a peak at the syllabus etc every so often throughout when I get that feeling that I'm "supposed" to be doing something, but for the most part that 1-3 days of studying is the first time I'll have ever seen the material. Nobody admires such a talent, rather they are envious/hateful. I experienced that in undergrad and have since made it a point to NEVER talk about my grades. Nobody likes the slacker who is outscoring them. One day I'll muster up the drive to put in as much work as my peers and we'll see just what I can really do.

Coño men, are you ****ing keadding me or what

 

[hardy]

If that were the case, then you wouldn't have people who can honor exams without much effort. But they exist, so your point is moot.

That depends on the exam. Some people can easily honor an exam that is mostly conceptual and synthesis of information. But if there is a lot of obscure detail questions on the exam those people won't honor exams as easily since the only place you can obtain these details is from hard work. Intelligence or talent don't help much if you are asked some obscure detail.

 

[tony montana]

That depends on the exam. Some people can easily honor an exam that is mostly conceptual and synthesis of information. But if there is a lot of obscure detail questions on the exam those people won't honor exams as easily since the only place you can obtain these details is from hard work. Intelligence or talent don't help much if you are asked some obscure detail.

Now that's more like it. What kind of honoring are we talking about - is it honoring exams with a high memorization of details/conceptual, processes ratio or honoring exams with mostly conceptual, processes questions. Most people admitted to medical schools, in my opinion, are better at memorizing facts than understanding processes (pathophys).

 

[medicomel]

although honoring a class is super, the question you should be asking is: am i going to remember this material down the road, for boards, or more importantly, when it becomes clinically relevant. some of the people i know who honor classes left and right cannot recall the minutiae they crammed into their heads a few WEEKS after a test. so yeah, being at the top of the class and getting that great residency will be great, but it will only be the tip of the iceberg. wait until you get pimped and hope that what you learned has stayed there. my point is not that individuals with photographic memories always forget, but that it's possible that their scores may not accurately reflect whether they have learned the material for the long haul. just do YOUR best and try to learn as much as YOU can, because your patients will come to YOU for answers. getting wrapped up in numbers will only make your life miserable and will create unnecessary anxiety. study a little every day and ignore the chatter around you.

 

[nybrian]

My sister goes to nycom and one person she knows that honored all the tests at least on school days she studies after class for 12 hours. My sister studies for ten and she didn't honor everything. So......

 

[Tired]

You know what they call the guy who graduates med school at the bottom of the class.

 

[Reimat]

some of the people i know who honor classes left and right cannot recall the minutiae they crammed into their heads a few WEEKS after a test.

Nobody remembers the minutiae of tested material because you will never see it again unless you go into a certain specialty.

Although you do remember bits and pieces... for whatever reason I remember the navicular fossa from anatomy a year ago, but none of the major branches of the celiac trunk. Weird the things we remember

 

[Reimat]

I'm becoming very frustrated with myself because no matter how much effort I put into studying for an exam, I always fall into the same grade range (pass). I keep up with the material, read review books, look at old exams, etc and yet my grades are mediocre at best compared to my classmates.

I would argue that honoring classes is a 80% a learned skill, 20% being smart. You wouldn't be in med school if you didn't have the smarts - so doing well is about learning to study well. People get by in high school and undergrad by reading material over and over until it "sinks in" but there's just not enough time to learn that way in med school. You really need to attack the material by testing yourself on it. That's why I like flashcards because they give you an opportunity to try to explain before you see the answer. You need to spend your time drilling rather than reading - especially as you get close to exam time.

That's what I do, at least. Talk to people in your class who are doing well to find out how they study. Hopefully they are secure enough in themselves that they would give you ideas on how to study better. Happy hunting.

 

[Slide]

You know what they call the guy who graduates med school at the bottom of the class.

Proctologist?

 

[blz]

Most people who I see study a lot and still do mediocre are ones who just suck at studying. They are the anal pre-meds who have to take notes on EVERYTHING and are horribly inefficient. I think one skill I learned through med school is to learn well WITHOUT writing down anything. Try it out next time.

 

[tony montana]

Most people who I see study a lot and still do mediocre are ones who just suck at studying. They are the anal pre-meds who have to take notes on EVERYTHING and are horribly inefficient. I think one skill I learned through med school is to learn well WITHOUT writing down anything. Try it out next time.

Understanding w/o writing is no problem. But how do you ensure memorization just by reading?

 

[sendwich]

Most people who I see study a lot and still do mediocre are ones who just suck at studying. They are the anal pre-meds who have to take notes on EVERYTHING and are horribly inefficient. I think one skill I learned through med school is to learn well WITHOUT writing down anything. Try it out next time.

they're also the ones who loudly go around with all the "right" answers after exams, when in fact, they're really really wrong.

 

[45408]

That depends on the exam. Some people can easily honor an exam that is mostly conceptual and synthesis of information. But if there is a lot of obscure detail questions on the exam those people won't honor exams as easily since the only place you can obtain these details is from hard work. Intelligence or talent don't help much if you are asked some obscure detail.

Memorizing details comes easily to some people. I'm in the middle. I retain details more easily than a lot of people, but there are people who retain them a lot better than I do. I think most people who get honors are using a strong work ethic to do so, but I think there are some people who just zip to the top without much work.

Understanding w/o writing is no problem. But how do you ensure memorization just by reading?

Read it again. And again. And again.

 

[arsenewenger]

You know what they call the guy who graduates med school at the bottom of the class.

Slacker.

 

[TMP-SMX]

You have to enjoy/at least be somewhat interested in the material. I hated upper limb and head and neck. The nerves were ok, but the damned muscles and tiny little objects were a pain in the practical. Organs and the rest for thorax and abdomen, I did very well.

 

[drblueshades]

Doing well on exams is about hard work and smart work. It took me a while to find out what kind of studying worked best for me (flash cards + audio) and to get really good at figuring out what professors will ask on exams. This year, I barely study more than a few hours a day tops (except in the 2 days before a test, maybe) and I've gotten at least mean + 1SD on every exam so far in MS2 at a top 10. I can't imagine studying for 5-10 hours every weekday. See what engages you the best in the material (note-taking, flashcards, audio, re-reading, practice questions, etc) and occasionally during lecture or lab, think to yourself about what the professor might ask you on an exam. As you get better at this game, your scores will improve and you might have to study slightly less to succeed. Good luck!!!

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

Proctologist?

Look up how competitive Colo-Rectal Surgery is nowadays and then come back.

 

[-Goose-]

Its all about the rate of retention. I've had it easy throughout my education as I rarely ever have to read over anything more than once to have it down cold (though I will admit I read as slow as molasses.) I've honored all my tests in gross, embryo and molecular bio so far without putting in more than a weekend for anatomy and a day for each of the others. I am by no means making 100s, but it looks like 92-95 is my area. This is even with skipping lectures and goofing off in lab. I'll take a peak at the syllabus etc every so often throughout when I get that feeling that I'm "supposed" to be doing something, but for the most part that 1-3 days of studying is the first time I'll have ever seen the material. Nobody admires such a talent, rather they are envious/hateful. I experienced that in undergrad and have since made it a point to NEVER talk about my grades. Nobody likes the slacker who is outscoring them. One day I'll muster up the drive to put in as much work as my peers and we'll see just what I can really do.

Except when you sign on SDN under a handle that you say is your real name so that all your classmates can hear about how easy M1 year is going for ya?😉