Is it bad if you have little to no work experience

[AlexMorph]

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To follow up on this international students topic, my cousin came over to the U.S. recently from India. And she has a masters in biochem, but she wasn't allowed to work ANYWHERE without a work permit. She ended up doing the job that a grad student would normally do at UNC-Charlotte for no pay because the grad students were apparently on vacation the whole summer, which makes no sense to me, but that's what she said.

Imagine 9-5 for 5 days a week with no pay. And it's not even a noble cause. She was just a lab rat for a professor.

 

[gotmeds?]

why are a little "nervous"...are you worried because they haven't had a serious job before that they will be incompetent? Are you worried they wont be up to par, may have bad work ethic? Whatever it is...i suggest that you not worry or be nervous about other people and what they have done and only judge them once you have been working with them. You cant judge people without acutally interacting with them. Dont make assumtptions.

Hey, speaking of not making assumptions, I have worked with them! I've been working in healthcare for about 8 years. There are some really great med students and residents and there are some really lousy ones. Some of the really bad ones I met were the ones who came from rich families and never had to work a day in their lives. Then again, some of the good ones did too. Go figure.

 

[punkindrublic]

I've had a job for all but a cumulative total of ~1 year since I was 14. Busing tables on Saturday mornings during 8th grade when your friends are all out skating sucks. My folks were big on the 'work ethic' thing, which, of course, included paying for books, food, rent, entertainment, and a decent chunk of my undergrad tuition (though they did help me out a lot there, thank god).

Unfortunately, working ~20 hours a week during school and full-time during breaks didn't leave lots of time for extracurriculars, so I'm pretty thin there, but my resume is second to none.

 

[jon stewart]

Hey, speaking of not making assumptions, I have worked with them! I've been working in healthcare for about 8 years. There are some really great med students and residents and there are some really lousy ones. Some of the really bad ones I met were the ones who came from rich families and never had to work a day in their lives. Then again, some of the good ones did too. Go figure.

yea, its a mixed bag sometimes. Its great that you are talking from extensive experience. I think personally that having to struggle through and make things work for yourself is the best way to go sometimes (plus i think it makes you more knowledgeable). You actually appreciate what you have and the amount of work you put in to get it. It makes getting in that much sweeter! Plus, it allows you to experience more of the realities of life. I don't think that many of the patients we will serve will be well off, well maybe if you have your own practice in Beverly Hills or something...

 

[jon stewart]

To follow up on this international students topic, my cousin came over to the U.S. recently from India. And she has a masters in biochem, but she wasn't allowed to work ANYWHERE without a work permit. She ended up doing the job that a grad student would normally do at UNC-Charlotte for no pay because the grad students were apparently on vacation the whole summer, which makes no sense to me, but that's what she said.

Imagine 9-5 for 5 days a week with no pay. And it's not even a noble cause. She was just a lab rat for a professor.

umm i wonder what visa she entered the US under? Maybe she was ineligible for EAD..aka work permit? It sucks, i am in a similar situation too. sigh.

 

[AlexMorph]

umm i wonder what visa she entered the US under? Maybe she was ineligible for EAD..aka work permit? It sucks, i am in a similar situation too. sigh.

I don't really know which one. I haven't been able to keep in touch either cause she doesn't have internet at her apt. I think her prof might be cracking down on internet usage at the office for personal use. What a shame ...

 

[brianmartin]

I don't think lack of work experience will kill your app, but, I highly recommend finding a paying clinical job. It's fun and virtually guarantees your acceptance to med school, provided you have good numbers.

 

[Law2Doc]

It's fun and virtually guarantees your acceptance to med school, provided you have good numbers.

I think you may have a very different understanding of the word "guarantee" than most. There are no guarantees in this system and it's silly to suggest that any factor confers one. In fact, the folks who took classes over the summer, or did overseas travel/volunteering, or did unpaid research, or just shadowed/volunteered stateside, probably aren't any worse off than the dude who got an EC through a summer job. Employment looks good, but it is hardly a "virtual guarantee". It might not even be as high yield as some of these other things.

 

[sunset823]

Actually, my mom discouraged my brother and I from working while we're in school. You don't make much money without a degree, and it takes time away from studying, etc. At some point after 9/11, she was laid off and ended up dipping into her retirement funds because she didn't want us to work until we were out of school. So that being said, my first "job" didn't come until senior year of college, and it was basically tutoring 2 hours a week for some extra spending cash. Of course I plan on getting a real job between graduation and med school, but that's because I no longer have heavy course loads to worry about. My brother got a summer job this year, but my mom is making him quit before he goes to school in the Fall. It's not like we can't use the extra money, but her logic is that focusing more on doing well in school now would help you get a better job in the future, and even if it didn't, you at least have a good education to fall back on. If you do work while you're in school, some people get burned out and their grades suffer, and it's not like you can make much without your degree.

I've noticed a similar trend with my friends' parents. The parents who had to hold down multiple full time jobs in college that payed minimum wage want to do everything in their power to prevent their kids from having to work, because they know it's tough to balance it. However, some of my wealthier friends were pushed to get jobs by their parents, because the parents felt it was important to learn the value of money since their kids had it whenever they wanted. So I think a large part of working while you're in undergrad depends on your circumstances, how you were raised, etc. I should also mentioned that I chose a relatively inexpensive state school (less than $10k a year including most expenses) so that I could focus on studying instead of working.

I would disagree with this wholeheartedly...when I was in hs, I never worked but did a lot of volunteering/community service and such...but that was hs. I hit college, and even though I went to a public school, I was responsible for my own personal expenses (because my Asian parents love me enough to not feed me money - best thing they ever did for me), and have held down jobs ever since; I actually found that the more I worked, the better my grades got, because I was much better at time management. I also was able to get really good jobs while I was in school, with the primary one being web design, since I have a good computer science background (though my degree wasn't in it) - I've never worked in fast food, and I think anyone can find a really valuable job even in college, and it is really good for you to make your own money

That being said, though, working as much as I do has left me with no time to do volunteer/community service, and I know that this will be a very big black mark on my application (which I'll have to change within the next year before I apply); having seen both sides of the fence, I personally feel much more fulfilled and ready to handle medicine working in real jobs than doing glorified candy striping in hospitals, but to each their own...

 

[TheRealMD]

Because most people only get a job to get quick cash, that's why it's not so surprising. Now, if you had to get a job to pay for tuition, I fully respect that, but that isn't most people at all. Times have changed. Most people just take out loans and decide to pay them off later. I don't see any way how you could actually work through college to pay off everything and never have any debt without it affecting your studies somehow.

 

[mmcnam]

I'm actually worried that my application will be weak because I chose to work for money rather than volunteer. I think it's selfless to let money go and volunteer instead.

I always found travel a priority and took one major trip every year. My parents aren't the kind of people who hand over money, so I understood that if I wanted to travel I'd have to pay for it myself. I also paid for my study abroad, which was expensive and necessary for my senior thesis. I did, however, turn down opportunities that would have helped with med school (like cool volunteering positions) to waitress and make good money. I don't regret it, but my work experience is not related to medical school. I put "Waitress" as an AMCAS activity, because it was how I spent the summer after my junior year, but that was only to prove that I didn't sit around.

 

[Lonelion87]

Basing this on 85% of the posts I have seen in this thread...you all are very, very lucky. As am I. We are living the generation of entitlement.

I don't understand how people can take summer's "off" by pursuing 9-5 volunteer jobs, extensive summer school, and trips to Ecuador to dig wells. I mean, don't get me wrong, these things are all very noble and I am sure they add a twinkle to your resume, but for 95% of the general population this really isn't feasible. I suspect it may be that most Pre-Meds haven't had the opportunity to experience life in retail, food service, etc., because of the demographics associated with the medical profession.

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my situation I *must* work full-time all summer in order to make my personal contribution to the cost of my education. I have taken out personal loans and my parents make a contribution, but this still isn't enough such that I can take a summer off. I guess this is a bit of a rant...but, I get irk'ed when I see comments like summer time is to make 'fast' and 'easy' cash. No way.

 

[HailMary]

This is exactly what I was thinking when I saw this thread. I can't think of anything I've done that has taught me to work with people better than my work experience. Especially if you get a job in the customer service realm (anything from store clerk to waiting tables), you learn how to deal with the **** people can give you, both colleagues and customers (patients in the future). On top of that it teaches GREAT time management skills. Sure it might seem as "time wasted" to those premeds who have never worked, but I've always done better in school when I've had a job and and at the same time seem to be the least stressed out of all of my friends, who are mostly education or business majors.

👍👍👍

I agree completely. If you have only ever studied, done extracurriculars at school, and volunteered, odds are that you have very little experience with people who are not like you, which means that the patient populations at a lot of hospitals will be pretty shocking. A job also gives you thick skin. Working at a restaurant, some nights I'll work my butt off and people will treat me really badly. It sucks, but it's probably good preparation for patients who have been waiting for 5 hours in the ER.

 

[capn jazz]

Basing this on 85% of the posts I have seen in this thread...you all are very, very lucky. As am I. We are living the generation of entitlement.

I don't understand how people can take summer's "off" by pursuing 9-5 volunteer jobs, extensive summer school, and trips to Ecuador to dig wells. I mean, don't get me wrong, these things are all very noble and I am sure they add a twinkle to your resume, but for 95% of the general population this really isn't feasible. I suspect it may be that most Pre-Meds haven't had the opportunity to experience life in retail, food service, etc., because of the demographics associated with the medical profession.

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my situation I *must* work full-time all summer in order to make my personal contribution to the cost of my education. I have taken out personal loans and my parents make a contribution, but this still isn't enough such that I can take a summer off. I guess this is a bit of a rant...but, I get irk'ed when I see comments like summer time is to make 'fast' and 'easy' cash. No way.

Absolutely. I scored a really awesome job one summer and was THEN informed it was an unpaid internship, so what did I do? I got a second job, working at a restaurant. I worked 50-70 hour weeks all summer. You spend money very differently when it isn't coming out of Daddy's pocket/trust fund.

 

[LincolnTwins]

Does paid research count as a job?

 

[MassTransport]

Yeah, it counts as a job, but I'd list it as research if you had to choose.

 

[Lonelion87]

One thing to watch out for with summer research is the money. If you have a demanding P.I., you will work long hours and will have to come in the odd weekend to check on cells or what have you. I get paid a bi-weekly stipend that is independent of actual hours worked. For fun, I calculated my average hours worked against my stipend: I'm making less than minimum wage! Moral of the story is research is sweet, but make sure you have something else that will help prop up the ol' savings account.

 

[gujuDoc]

I would disagree with this wholeheartedly...when I was in hs, I never worked but did a lot of volunteering/community service and such...but that was hs. I hit college, and even though I went to a public school, I was responsible for my own personal expenses (because my Asian parents love me enough to not feed me money - best thing they ever did for me), and have held down jobs ever since; I actually found that the more I worked, the better my grades got, because I was much better at time management. I also was able to get really good jobs while I was in school, with the primary one being web design, since I have a good computer science background (though my degree wasn't in it) - I've never worked in fast food, and I think anyone can find a really valuable job even in college, and it is really good for you to make your own money

That being said, though, working as much as I do has left me with no time to do volunteer/community service, and I know that this will be a very big black mark on my application (which I'll have to change within the next year before I apply); having seen both sides of the fence, I personally feel much more fulfilled and ready to handle medicine working in real jobs than doing glorified candy striping in hospitals, but to each their own...

I have a friend who is somewhat the same way. Her husband is in med school but had she and him both applied to med school I think she would have had an easier time getting in than he did. Why? Though he worked to support himself throughout school, she has far more work experience then him and at that varied work experience. I think she's who she is today as a result of those experiences. It has made her more openminded and should she apply to grad school once he's done, she'll probably not have much trouble since her undergrad grades are good and she's a good standardized test taker.

But she's been working since HS and in her time working she's worked every job from stuff as little as retail or working in a smoothie shop to being a full time nanny in DC for a year when her husband was doing grad school there. The DC job even gave her a 40k residency with all sorts of benefits you'd get from a corporate job like health insurance and other stuff of that nature.

She's also worked with a home for abused children in a social work kind of job and was nearly offered a full time job working there for a decent salary before the manager caused some trouble for her. She's also worked in an independent one on one situation with some kids with behavioral problems.

Currently she's a volunteer/events coordinator for a zoo.

I believe these varied work experiences have made a bigger impact on her life then any amt of volunteering work would have ever done so. She's seen things most volunteers will never see, she's had to deal with the politics of work which most volunteers never deal with. She's learned the value of money and how hard it is to earn a single dollar. She's learned to meet different kind of people and worked in different situations. I believe all these things have developed her character more then her former accomplishments playing the flute or other things that make her unique. because of the varied experience, when she applies anywhere she has no trouble getting jobs these days. Should grad school be in the horizon in the future, she'll probably have no problem getting in because of this. That's my honest opinion anyhow.

I think work experience helps build character but I know what it is like to be held down by parents kind of not taking you seriously when you say you wish to work. Some parents don't realize by giving everything and trying to over shelter you that they are in effect not allowing you to grow and learn how to deal with people.

Like the person I posted about above, my brother too has held jobs ever since he was 15. His first job was at a restaurant by our house. Following that he worked another restaurant job and then at a grocery store and then at a convenient store. In college he went on to work at a Barnes and Noble or two and a smoothie place in the mall. He'd also work other such jobs.

Now he works as a bank examiner with the OCC and I believe he got the job right away because he had a series of work experience. I do believe that work experience if you've had any real meaninful work experience teaches you a valuable lesson that volunteering, shadowing, etc. don't teach you. It teaches you to deal with all the BS of work politics and makes you realize the world isn't as glamorous as it looks on tv. People don't give a damn if you feel shattered in the real world. You have to pick up the pieces for yourself and learn to deal with the bad stuff and parents can't teach you that as well as circumstance will.

 

[gujuDoc]

You know what I think is real sad?? A lot of med school committees often value volunteering over work experience even if both are in the clinical setting. I have found the most mature people I knew to be those who had to work their way through college or those who were elder nontrads working fulltime and going to school.

One girl I know recently started med school in a Fl. med school. This person maintained a severely high GPA and great MCAT score though not 35+ while working 68-72 hours a week and taking 18 credit hours with mostly As and a B here or there. Mind you while doing this she also volunteered at different hospitals. I believe that her experience of going through this will make her more prepared for residency then someone who's not been through this sort of thing because she knows what its like to work for 72 hours with 12-16 hour shifts for a very very small amount of pay.

Most of the remaining students who I knew that had worked long hours or held a full time job while going to school were nontrads who were married with or without children.

 

[gujuDoc]

I would disagree with this wholeheartedly...when I was in hs, I never worked but did a lot of volunteering/community service and such...but that was hs. I hit college, and even though I went to a public school, I was responsible for my own personal expenses (because my Asian parents love me enough to not feed me money - best thing they ever did for me), and have held down jobs ever since; I actually found that the more I worked, the better my grades got, because I was much better at time management. I also was able to get really good jobs while I was in school, with the primary one being web design, since I have a good computer science background (though my degree wasn't in it) - I've never worked in fast food, and I think anyone can find a really valuable job even in college, and it is really good for you to make your own money

That being said, though, working as much as I do has left me with no time to do volunteer/community service, and I know that this will be a very big black mark on my application (which I'll have to change within the next year before I apply); having seen both sides of the fence, I personally feel much more fulfilled and ready to handle medicine working in real jobs than doing glorified candy striping in hospitals, but to each their own...

I understand where you are coming from. I have only held 4 part time jobs in my life, but in the short time I've been working in those jobs I've encountered a lot more then in all my time volunteering. Volunteering usually was always happy things happening. You never dealt with the negative things b/c the full time employees there always dealt with it.
This past year working at the computer lab and dealing with the BS some of the students will give you really thought me a thing or two. I also learned a lot from my short time working a convenient store in highschool though I think the longest job I ever had was working with residence services for a year and a half. But I got the most out of my more recent dealings with the computer lab because that customer service aspect is there. Sometimes you have to get really strict and make it clear who is in charge when they don't want to follow the rules, other times we've had to call security on people, etc. I've had people come in there and threaten me because I've not let them be there longer then the lab was supposed to be open. On other occasions I had people trying to vandalize the lab through ripping signs off the bulletin boards when I pointed them to directions and then cursing me out despite my best efforts to make it clear where to find instructions. I've had others come in who are well past 30 years old and yet begged me to escort them downstairs when you've given simple directions and who have not listened to me when I have said to email something to them because the computer doesn't save things permanently and you have to log off when you leave. I mean that one semester last semester taught me a lot about the aggressive nature and inconsiderate side. But on the more positive side there were also a lot of great students who were nice and non disruptive and I enjoyed getting to know them and helping others with their concerns who were more considerate and mature. I don't regret working there at all. I got some extra cash and learned a thing or two from it despite the fact that it was just a computer lab job. In the meanwhile I also gained some great colleagues in the form of my boss and lab coworkers and some of the people working in the main office of the CAS computing dept who previously were lab assistants like I was.

 

[Lonelion87]

You know what I think is real sad?? A lot of med school committees often value volunteering over work experience even if both are in the clinical setting. I have found the most mature people I knew to be those who had to work their way through college or those who were elder nontrads working fulltime and going to school.

I don't know if we can generalize what the med school committees look for since we really don't have access to those behind-closed-doors admissions strategy meetings, but I do see a lot of Pre-Meds taking volunteer jobs that really offer no insight into the profession and serve no purpose other than the a nice 'name-drop' on their application.

An example of this could be volunteering at an information desk at a prestigious hospital. While it may look good on an application to volunteer at 'X-Y-Z' hospital, your day-to-day activities include telling people where to go, and answering phone calls. Security guards at malls do this, and they get paid for it. You might even get to shadow a physician, if you are lucky.

A good counter-example could be volunteering at a Rehabilitation center or a Hospice. Provided you aren't pushing papers all day, you are on the front lines of healing and care-giving. This will serve as a tremendous eye-opener to the world of healing (the purpose a physician was originally intended for). If you are looking to volunteer somewhere meaningful, choose something like this! To prove I'm not just spewing hot air, at a Pre-Med seminar at my school, a Dartmouth Asst. Director of Admissions said applicants " score major brownie points" when they volunteer at a Hospice.

I hope AdComs can differentiate between paper-pushing and meaningful volunteering. I suspect most will, but they sure do have a lot of apps to get through...

 

[Parthenon89]

they really just look at volunteering to see if you have a geniune interest in humanitarian things- to see if you'd make a good doctor, i dont suppose that you necessary have to volunteer, just as long as you have other things showing your interest in medicine and showing them a more of a 'human' side to you i guess, instead of just pushing numbers in their faces.

just my thought on that, btw i'm doing EMS and i'm cert. , that i hope will kick a lot of ass for me when i start applying a couple years from now.😀

 

[capn jazz]

One girl I know recently started med school in a Fl. med school. This person maintained a severely high GPA and great MCAT score though not 35+ while working 68-72 hours a week and taking 18 credit hours with mostly As and a B here or there. Mind you while doing this she also volunteered at different hospitals. I believe that her experience of going through this will make her more prepared for residency then someone who's not been through this sort of thing because she knows what its like to work for 72 hours with 12-16 hour shifts for a very very small amount of pay.

Uh, I don't think I believe this story. I worked 70-hour weeks over the summer and I was working 9 AM - 5 PM Mon-Fri at one job, and 6 PM - 11 PM Mon-Fri at the other job, as well as 10 hours on Sat or Sun. I literally woke up, went to work, came home, and slept. How could she possibly have had time for, let's say, 4 classes AND volunteering on top of that? And sleeping? That's not even physically possible.