Is it okay to turn in a CV in place of a resume?

[staphylcoccus]

For hospital positions, I don't have any work experience. I was thinking about submitting a CV that shows all my clinical rotations rather than submitting a resume that just shows my retail work experience.

Do you think this would be well-accepted?

Thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[owlegrad]

For hospital positions, I don't have any work experience. I was thinking about submitting a CV that shows all my clinical rotations rather than submitting a resume that just shows my retail work experience.

Do you think this would be well-accepted?

Thanks!

Your question does not make sense to me. At this point in your career all you will ever use is your CV. You won't be using a resume again, it's all CV from here on out.

Right?

 

[Praziquantel86]

CV away.

 

[rxlea]

+1 on the CV

 

[PharmDstudent]

What did they ask for?... ie can you follow directions? Will it all fit on 1 page?

 

[Ackj]

Your question does not make sense to me. At this point in your career all you will ever use is your CV. You won't be using a resume again, it's all CV from here on out.

Right?

I'm not so sure. Resume you take the relevant things from your CV. If you're applying to a retail chain, they'd want to see your retail experiences, they probably don't care about your internal med rotations.

 

[Its Z]

CV is for new grads without much pharmacist experience. Its ok for residency, academia, and some positions at academic hospitals. But resume is more appropriate for most pharmacist positions once you've been out in the field including DOP, CM, & suprvisory roles. C'mon we really don't care you wrote a limited distribution memo about bad tylenol seal or a presentation to 2 pharmacist and 7 techs about new drug that just got approved. learn to create a professional resume along with your CV. most of you guys are still in academia and influenced by people in academia hence believe CV is the end all. It ain't. Resume is.

 

[pharmboycu]

CV is for new grads without much pharmacist experience. Its ok for residency, academia, and some positions at academic hospitals. But resume is more appropriate for most pharmacist positions once you've been out in the field including DOP, CM, & suprvisory roles. C'mon we really don't care you wrote a limited distribution memo about bad tylenol seal or a presentation to 2 pharmacist and 7 techs about new drug that just got approved. learn to create a professional resume along with your CV. most of you guys are still in academia and influenced by people in academia hence believe CV is the end all. It ain't. Resume is.

+1. Hit the nail on the head. It's okay if you're a new grad and have no hospital experience, are applying to residencies, or some other academic endeavour. If you submit a CV and they asked for a resume, that says one of 2 things-- 1) New Grad or 2) Can't follow directions. Nothing wrong with being a new grad-- just don't want to see someone lumped into "can't follow directions" if that's not the case.

John

 

[xiphoid2010]

+1. Hit the nail on the head. It's okay if you're a new grad and have no hospital experience, are applying to residencies, or some other academic endeavour. If you submit a CV and they asked for a resume, that says one of 2 things-- 1) New Grad or 2) Can't follow directions. Nothing wrong with being a new grad-- just don't want to see someone lumped into "can't follow directions" if that's not the case.

John

But the thing is though, when I was hunting for job towards the end of my residency, every single place asked for CV, ever asked for a resume. The same was true when I was working at a big pharma, everybody always asked for your CV. Just the publications alone takes up a whole page, patents take up another half a page. Resumes just can't hold enough important stuff for any intellectually driven career.

 

[Its Z]

But the thing is though, when I was hunting for job towards the end of my residency, every single place asked for CV, ever asked for a resume. The same was true when I was working at a big pharma, everybody always asked for your CV. Just the publications alone takes up a whole page, patents take up another half a page. Resumes just can't hold enough important stuff for any intellectually driven career.

Geebus...

👎

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Geebus...

👎

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Right, let's leave out the publications, patents, poster presentations and teachings. I guess those aren't important in your book. 🙄

I was just a B.S scientist for a few years, and those things already take up almost 3 pages single space. Let's see how you would condense that and education and work history down to a 1 page resume. Can't imagine what you would have to toss out for MS and Ph.Ds.

 

[Its Z]

Right, let's leave out the publications, patents, poster presentations and teachings. I guess those aren't important in your book. 🙄

I was just a B.S scientist for a few years, and those things already take up almost 3 pages single space. Let's see how you would condense that and education and work history down to a 1 page resume. Can't imagine what you would have to toss out for MS and Ph.Ds.

Education, place of employment, and positions held and references are all I need to hire a DOP, CM, and pharmacists.

You wouldn't know it...you've never hired a pharmacist before. I've been hiring over a decade.

 

[Its Z]

Right, let's leave out the publications, patents, poster presentations and teachings. I guess those aren't important in your book. 🙄

And this may be important for you... but not really for me or many employers.

I was just a B.S scientist for a few years, and those things already take up almost 3 pages single space.

Trust me...most employers don't care about your BS scientist work.

Let's see how you would condense that and education and work history down to a 1 page resume.

Who says resume has to be 1 page?

Can't imagine what you would have to toss out for MS and Ph.Ds.

Are you an MS/PhD?

 

[xiphoid2010]

Education, place of employment, and positions held and references are all I need to hire a DOP, CM, and pharmacists.

You wouldn't know it...you've never hired a pharmacist before. I've been hiring over a decade.

But the funny thing is all the jobs out there ask for CV, not resume. Maybe you aren't the only one hiring, huh? I guess your "decade of experience" is just the way YOU do it.

 

[Its Z]

Well...for the kick of it, I'm going to update my CV... let me see how long it can be once I include all my presentations, publications, articles, etc..etc...I don't know, I might have to cap it at 40 pages...

 

[Its Z]

But the funny thing is all the jobs out there ask for CV, not resume. Maybe you aren't the only one hiring, huh? I guess your "decade of experience" is just the way YOU do it.

All the jobs? LMAO...go to careerbuilder.com and see how many are looking for CV?

 

[Its Z]

I just went on careerbuilder...first 4 pharmacist positions asked to upload "resume" not CV. But I guess those aren't intellectually driven careers.

 

[xiphoid2010]

I just went on careerbuilder...first 4 pharmacist positions asked to upload "resume" not CV. But I guess those aren't intellectually driven careers.

I looked on USAjob.gov, and for staff pharmacist, they asked for "CV or resume". But looking the clinical positions, they asked for CV specifically. Same was my experience, all the jobs I applied to wanted my CV.

Trust me...most employers don't care about your BS scientist work.

You have been known to be full of yourself and talking down to everyone else who don't agree with your views. So I certainly don't trust you. Every employers wanted my CV. In fact, they always mentioned the impressive list of publications and patents. It has been instrumental in landing me the positions I wanted.

Are you an MS/PhD?

You mean a Pharm.D isn't as good as an MS?

We can easily settle this: take a quick poll in here see who got their job using a CV vs. resume. Let me guess you got your job using a CV.

CV +1

 

[PharmaTope]

pharmacy isnt like medicine and other careers where a CV is important.

Pharmacy needs a face, pulse, and someone that can do the job. your accomplishments dont matter much to a DOP who just wants to fill his spot with someone that will YES MAN him to death and do whatever he wishes

 

[PharmDstudent]

I used a resume for both pharmacist jobs...

Everything relevant to pharmacy should fit on 1 page, unless you're the type that has 3 jobs at a time and has had to move, not by choice, 5 times in the last 10 years.
Too many jobs can be damaging to your resume, because it can appear that you're a turn-over risk.

 

[Sparda29]

Stupid question: If I have no honors and awards, I shouldn't make a section for those things in my CV right?

 

[Ackj]

Stupid question: If I have no honors and awards, I shouldn't make a section for those things in my CV right?

Awards: None
Reasons to Hire me: Zero

yeah, just rub it in

 

[R2pharmD2]

Stupid question: If I have no honors and awards, I shouldn't make a section for those things in my CV right?

Besides residency or academia, does any of that stuff actually help people land jobs? I don't really see why an employer would give a crap that somebody got second place in a spelling bee or was voted somewhat likely to succeed or whatever.

 

[Sparda29]

Besides residency or academia, does any of that stuff actually help people land jobs? I don't really see why an employer would give a crap that somebody got second place in a spelling bee or was voted somewhat likely to succeed or whatever.

Employer, probably not, but I am looking for a residency.

 

[type b pharmD]

+1 for resume. Not a pharmacist by any means and it may be significantly different for students vs graduates for all I know , but, several pharmacy managers have given me positive feedback regarding a neatly formatted single page resume, as well as a recruiter that I know for a biotech company who helped me with some formatting tips. They all told me, "if it cant fit on a resume then its either not that important or else you just don't know how to write succinctly enough" . Just my 2c. Im sure these people get a lot of "cv's " and resumes on their desks every day too. Cv in my lowly opinion should be kept for phd , professorial type jobs, and for research type jobs. Pharmacists care about what you can *do* and what you've *done* (in a production environment so to speak) more so than what you know or what youve "experienced". at least, this is what the pharmacists I talk to say. Hth . Also think about quantity vs quality. Would you rather have a perfect single page or a wandering meandering essay and sets of lists. then think about what a hiring manager would rather peruse. Being able to write a well formatted and to-the-point resume shows people you can prioritize , focus your abilities , and understand context when it comes to work skills. It is a way of interviewing for a job without even saying anything face to face. Do you want to present that focused power or merely present a list. ?

 

[xiphoid2010]

+1 for resume. Not a pharmacist by any means and it may be significantly different for students vs graduates for all I know , but, several pharmacy managers have given me positive feedback regarding a neatly formatted single page resume, as well as a recruiter that I know for a biotech company who helped me with some formatting tips. They all told me, "if it cant fit on a resume then its either not that important or else you just don't know how to write succinctly enough" . Just my 2c. Im sure these people get a lot of "cv's " and resumes on their desks every day too. Cv in my lowly opinion should be kept for phd , professorial type jobs, and for research type jobs. Pharmacists care about what you can *do* and what you've *done* (in a production environment so to speak) more so than what you know or what youve "experienced". at least, this is what the pharmacists I talk to say. Hth . Also think about quantity vs quality. Would you rather have a perfect single page or a wandering meandering essay and sets of lists. then think about what a hiring manager would rather peruse. Being able to write a well formatted and to-the-point resume shows people you can prioritize , focus your abilities , and understand context when it comes to work skills. It is a way of interviewing for a job without even saying anything face to face. Do you want to present that focused power or merely present a list. ?

pharmacy is by no means a production environment. Maybe retail, and part od staffing, but not clinical pharmacy. I was apply for infectious diseases and oncology positions. Every place wanted my cv, obviously needed that to see what experience and clinical knowledge. They can see the 5 Micu and ID months or the 3 oncology months, the oncology research and publication, ect. That's what got me the interviews with just a pgy1 in a traditionally pgy2 playing field. A 1 page, resume won't be able to show that, and I would have to settle for lesser positions. The funny thing is they saw leadership too, so they offered me the pharmacy manager position, with added duty as the ID clinical pharmacist. Lol.

 

[type b pharmD]

pharmacy is by no means a production environment. Maybe retail, and part od staffing, but not clinical pharmacy. I was apply for infectious diseases and oncology positions. Every place wanted my cv, obviously needed that to see what experience and clinical knowledge. They can see the 5 Micu and ID months or the 3 oncology months, the oncology research and publication, ect. That's what got me the interviews with just a pgy1 in a traditionally pgy2 playing field. A 1 page, resume won't be able to show that, and I would have to settle for lesser positions. The funny thing is they saw leadership too, so they offered me the pharmacy manager position, with added duty as the ID clinical pharmacist. Lol.

The pharmacists I have worked for were managing a business (nuke and ltc) . By production environment I meant being able to get the drugs out and accomplish the set of tasks needed to run the business, not specifically "production" hence the quotes. I'm sure it is different in the clinical academic environment which is why I referenced my limited scope of knowledge and experience. I'm sure knowledge and research, publications etc matter a lot more in that setting. Just saying, the people who have hired me have told me to my face that academic background meant nothing to them compared to work skills. Pharmacy encompasses some very different working environments ! And congrats on your success on the academic side of things! Sounds exciting man ! Im sure your polished CV helped you a lot. It's good to get perspectives from both side of the fence so to speak.

 

[xiphoid2010]

I'm sure it is different in the clinical academic environment which is why I referenced my limited scope of knowledge and experience. I'm sure knowledge and research, publications etc matter a lot more in that setting. Just saying, the people who have hired me have told me to my face that academic background meant nothing to them compared to work skills. Pharmacy encompasses some very different working environments ! And congrats on your success on the academic side of things! Sounds exciting man ! Im sure your polished CV helped you a lot. It's good to get perspectives from both side of the fence so to speak.

My job is definitely not in an academic setting. It's a small private hospital in a relatively under served area, so quite backward compared to my training settings. I will be the first residency trained clinical pharmacist to come on board. I took a risk accepting this job instead of another VA oncology position. The VA would have been the university affiliated teaching hospital, well within the comfort zone but becoming a clinical specialist there would have little possibility to ever cross over to the management, which is really the only way to climb up as a pharmacist.

I would agree with others that work experience traditionally trump book knowledge alone. But in today's job market, with everything on the clinical side moving towards more accreditation, board certification, residency training, the importance of these things are on the rise and becoming the standards used for hiring.

Furthermore, PGY-1 and PGY-2 are not all made equal, so it will become more tiered. Experiences from a PGY-1 in a primary care heavy residency vs. PGY-1 in a level 1 trauma center won't weigh the same when it comes to different clinical settings.

 

[PharmDstudent]

My job is definitely not in an academic setting. It's a small private hospital in a relatively under served area, so quite backward compared to my training settings. I will be the first residency trained clinical pharmacist to come on board. I took a risk accepting this job instead of another VA oncology position. The VA would have been the university affiliated teaching hospital, well within the comfort zone but becoming a clinical specialist there would have little possibility to ever cross over to the management, which is really the only way to climb up as a pharmacist.

I would agree with others that work experience traditionally trump book knowledge alone. But in today's job market, with everything on the clinical side moving towards more accreditation, board certification, residency training, the importance of these things are on the rise and becoming the standards used for hiring.

Furthermore, PGY-1 and PGY-2 are not all made equal, so it will become more tiered. Experiences from a PGY-1 in a primary care heavy residency vs. PGY-1 in a level 1 trauma center won't weigh the same when it comes to different clinical settings.

It sounds like they might have been desperate more than anything?!

 

[xiphoid2010]

It sounds like they might have been desperate more than anything?!

Not really. Not much desperation in San Antonio, with UT medical center in town and highly ranked UT-Austin COP cranking out students just an hour away. They held 1 round of telephone interview, followed by a 2nd round of video conference interviews, boiling down to onsite interview for me and 2 others. One was already working there, but had no formal clinical background. One was a transplant clinical pharmacist. The 1st one didn't make it lacking clinical background. The transplant guy beat me on clinical experience but lacked leadership qualities. It was a close race down to me and him, but they offered me the job in the end.

 

[PharmDstudent]

Not really. Not much desperation in San Antonio, with UT medical center in town and highly ranked UT-Austin COP cranking out students just an hour away. They held 1 round of telephone interview, followed by a 2nd round of video conference interviews, boiling down to onsite interview for me and 2 others. One was already working there, but had no formal clinical background. One was a transplant clinical pharmacist. The 1st one didn't make it lacking clinical background. The transplant guy beat me on clinical experience but lacked leadership qualities. It was a close race down to me and him, but they offered me the job in the end.

I don't know... One of the directors that I knew was being hounded by a teaching hospital that was in dire need of a director. He had no clinical training, but he had been in management for a while.
I would think that they couldn't find another pharmacist with previous experience as a director, so they went for relevant, clinical experience. That's just my opinion.

 

[xiphoid2010]

I don't know... One of the directors that I knew was being hounded by a teaching hospital that was in dire need of a director. He had no clinical training, but he had been in management for a while.
I would think that they couldn't find another pharmacist with previous experience as a director, so they went for relevant, clinical experience. That's just my opinion.

That's for sure. There is a shortage of pharmacy management in general. Not surprising as people who go into pharmacy school are usually not the manager type. Every single DOP, associate chief, pharmacy manager I spoke to all became one because the situation required someone to plug the hole and nobody else stepped forward. 🙄

With a small hospital like that, I'm sure they would be hard to get a fully trained PGY-2 in pharmacy management, that's why they are willing to take a chance with people like me. At the same time, one thing I learned from my old man is "it's better to be a big guy at a small company than a small guy at a big company". Also, the spot opened up because my predecessor got promoted, so that's another good sign that tilted the balance in this job's favor.

 

[pharmboycu]

pharmacy is by no means a production environment. Maybe retail, and part od staffing, but not clinical pharmacy. I was apply for infectious diseases and oncology positions. Every place wanted my cv, obviously needed that to see what experience and clinical knowledge. They can see the 5 Micu and ID months or the 3 oncology months, the oncology research and publication, ect. That's what got me the interviews with just a pgy1 in a traditionally pgy2 playing field. A 1 page, resume won't be able to show that, and I would have to settle for lesser positions. The funny thing is they saw leadership too, so they offered me the pharmacy manager position, with added duty as the ID clinical pharmacist. Lol.

Just be careful about "getting too big for your britches" and of "pride before the fall."

I'm happy you enjoy clinical pharmacy and enjoy where the residencies have taken you. Remember to whom the nurses turn when they need a stat norepi drip or etomidate for intubation-- it's not the pharmacist who can tell them the clinical data behind their uses, it's the pharmacist who can get them the drug the fastest.

I don't mean to belitte you here, but if the clinical side of pharmacy is strictly your interest, perhaps going back to medical school would interest you? You obviously have the pharmacologic knowledge now, and going back to school would give you the autonomy to use it rather than waiting for a physician to initiate it.

With regards to the CV/Resume issue, more often than not, the concern will be hiring someone with a decent background who will stick around for longer than the orientation period. A resume will show you who job-hops and who doesn't. A padded CV when submitted in place of a resume reeks of self-aggrandizement and of a person who either can't follow directions or thinks himself/herself above following directions.

If you want to really impress, submit your resume and if the topic of presentations, publications, etc. comes up in the interview be ready to say, "Actually, I have a list of those here on my CV" and hand it to them. That tells someone you are aware of your accomplishments, you value them, and you are above boasting about them.

In short, behave like someone you'd want to hire-- not somone who is desperate to be hired.

John

 

[xiphoid2010]

Just be careful about "getting too big for your britches" and of "pride before the fall."

Noted, and I agree. My plan is indeed to keep my head low until I establish a firm footing.

I don't mean to belitte you here, but if the clinical side of pharmacy is strictly your interest, perhaps going back to medical school would interest you? You obviously have the pharmacologic knowledge now, and going back to school would give you the autonomy to use it rather than waiting for a physician to initiate it.

That was one of the things I really loved about VA, the autonomy and authority granted to pharmacists. I had considered med school but now with all the time/money already invested, new born son, it's time to settle down and make some money for a change. But you are right, if I can time travel back to right after undergrad, yeah, I would definitely go MD route.

more often than not, the concern will be hiring someone with a decent background who will stick around for longer than the orientation period. A resume will show you who job-hops and who doesn't.

So does a CV. The very first section of the CV is the work record.

If you want to really impress, submit your resume and if the topic of presentations, publications, etc. comes up in the interview be ready to say, "Actually, I have a list of those here on my CV" and hand it to them. That tells someone you are aware of your accomplishments, you value them, and you are above boasting about them.

But two things (1) you may never get interview against other candidates due to the lack of clinical info (2) interviews don't have time to read a CV coming out of no where. They need to know all that information ahead of time to assess your qualifications and plan for what to ask you about during the interview. I got asked about my role in drafting the vanco and AG pharmacy dosing protocol because they saw it on the CV ahead of time.

In short, behave like someone you'd want to hire-- not somone who is desperate to be hired.

Definitely. Interview is an art in itself. If you want a job, don't act desperate, show confidence. Even if you don't like the job, still act like it's the thing you wanted most. 👍

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Both are useless.

I'm waiting for everyone else in the universe to realize that jobs should not be given to people based on a piece of paper or an interview where salesmanship wins the day.

If I was to hire someone, I'd bring them in and give them a series of tests and see how they do unprepared. I'd give them a short-form IQ test, various clinical essays, and an interview, too...but with incredibly unconventional questions.

Then after that vetting process, look into their past accomplishments like resumes and CVs.

Kind of like how you have to "prove it" with your SAT/PCAT/MCAT/Naplex...there needs to be a standardized test type of situation in hiring.

HR wouldn't let you do that, though. They are all about playing the game. Which, naturally, allows the best candidate to be overlooked a ton thanks to the bull****ting abilities of people. Which is, again, why HR departments have way too much power and are, in general, useless.

 

[owlegrad]

Both are useless.

I'm waiting for everyone else in the universe to realize that jobs should not be given to people based on a piece of paper or an interview where salesmanship wins the day.

If I was to hire someone, I'd bring them in and give them a series of tests and see how they do unprepared. I'd give them a short-form IQ test, various clinical essays, and an interview, too...but with incredibly unconventional questions.

Then after that vetting process, look into their past accomplishments like resumes and CVs.

Kind of like how you have to "prove it" with your SAT/PCAT/MCAT/Naplex...there needs to be a standardized test type of situation in hiring.

HR wouldn't let you do that, though. They are all about playing the game. Which, naturally, allows the best candidate to be overlooked a ton thanks to the bull****ting abilities of people. Which is, again, why HR departments have way too much power and are, in general, useless.

So you would give an interview before looking at a CV or resume? Interesting. You would waste a lot of time that way.

 

[ucrx]

I used a resume for both pharmacist jobs...

Everything relevant to pharmacy should fit on 1 page, unless you're the type that has 3 jobs at a time and has had to move, not by choice, 5 times in the last 10 years.
Too many jobs can be damaging to your resume, because it can appear that you're a turn-over risk.

This is what I'm terrified of. I'm marrying someone in the Navy and will likely move every 3-5 years.

 

[pharm B]

Both are useless.

I'm waiting for everyone else in the universe to realize that jobs should not be given to people based on a piece of paper or an interview where salesmanship wins the day.

If I was to hire someone, I'd bring them in and give them a series of tests and see how they do unprepared. I'd give them a short-form IQ test, various clinical essays, and an interview, too...but with incredibly unconventional questions.

Then after that vetting process, look into their past accomplishments like resumes and CVs.

Kind of like how you have to "prove it" with your SAT/PCAT/MCAT/Naplex...there needs to be a standardized test type of situation in hiring.

HR wouldn't let you do that, though. They are all about playing the game. Which, naturally, allows the best candidate to be overlooked a ton thanks to the bull****ting abilities of people. Which is, again, why HR departments have way too much power and are, in general, useless.

For some reason, I see you hiring people via the methods seen at the beginning of Men in Black.

 

[Ackj]

So you would give an interview before looking at a CV or resume? Interesting. You would waste a lot of time that way.

Yeah, a ton of time. A store I was working at had an ad for an "experienced, full time pharmacy technician." Out of 30+ applications, only about 5 had ever worked in a pharmacy before. The rest were realtors, salesmen, grocery store employees, you name it. Maybe they would've been good at the job, who knows? However, they had no experience, which was explicitly required.

 

[Praziquantel86]

For some reason, I see you hiring people via the methods seen at the beginning of Men in Black.

The ridiculously uncomfortable chairs part, only hiring the best of the best of the best, sir, or the ability to chase down ridiculously fast aliens with adept climbing abilities?

 

[KARM12]

Resume is fine for retail and general staffing jobs - work experience is most important. CV is required for more clinical/academic jobs - work experience plus projects/research are important.

All the clinical specialist jobs I have applied for have required a CV.