Is It Only Going To Get More Competitive?

[jcruiser]

Well, I was shadowing this surgeon and he was asking me about how the application process was nowadays. I told him how competitive it was, the process to applying, etc. He was appalled. He reminisced about when he applied to med school, how he only needed the basic pre-reqs (he emphasized that GPA was not important), minimal healthcare exp, and a 'passing' (not sure what he meant) MCAT score and then you were practically accepted to at least one of the many schools you applied it.

I was surprised how easy he made it sound and how easily he was able to get in. Nowadays we're expected to have all of our science pre-reqs and then some at around a 3.5 gpa, a 30+ MCAT, extensive background in a healthcare setting, and be football/cheer captain to even land a handful of interviews. Compared to 20-30 years ago, too many people are trying to get into med school.

Which got me thinking...Is medical school admission only going to get more competitive? Or are we feeling a baby boom right now? I can't imagine the process in 20 more years if the competition scale keeps raising. Is 4.0 gpa going to be the norm for admission?

On a similar topic, how will we solve this problem? If a pool of 50k applicants want to become a physician (assume they went to undergrad strictly for pre-med), and only 50% get in each year, what are the rest of them going to do if they feel discouraged from applying the next cycle?

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[Stumpyman]

Don't worry about it too much. We were all born into a really bad time (or should I say, tough time) for med school admissions. In the future, it might get a little easier (yes, I appeal to your baby boom analogy).

Also, people tend to over-exaggerate it. A lot.

 

[Frazier]

Well, I was shadowing this surgeon and he was asking me about how the application process was nowadays. I told him how competitive it was, the process to applying, etc. He was appalled. He reminisced about when he applied to med school, how he only needed the basic pre-reqs (he emphasized that GPA was not important), minimal healthcare exp, and a 'passing' (not sure what he meant) MCAT score and then you were practically accepted to at least one of the many schools you applied it.

I was surprised how easy he made it sound and how easily he was able to get in. Nowadays we're expected to have all of our science pre-reqs and then some at around a 3.5 gpa, a 30+ MCAT, extensive background in a healthcare setting, and be football/cheer captain to even land a handful of interviews. Compared to 20-30 years ago, too many people are trying to get into med school.

Which got me thinking...Is medical school admission only going to get more competitive? Or are we feeling a baby boom right now? I can't imagine the process in 20 more years if the competition scale keeps raising. Is 4.0 gpa going to be the norm for admission?

On a similar topic, how will we solve this problem? If a pool of 50k applicants want to become a physician (assume they went to undergrad strictly for pre-med), and only 50% get in each year, what are the rest of them going to do if they feel discouraged from applying the next cycle?

I imagine that today, compared to 30 years ago, there are more people seeking a college degree... Which leads to more people seeking graduate degrees.

Yes, most likely it is going to get more competitive. Be happy you found this site now instead of later.

 

[sector9]

I'd like to point out that applicants with a 3.5/30 got in only 50% of the time. Oh, and only 43-44% of applicants get in

But seriously, this long term outline of the past 30 years of medical school admissions show that admissions is cyclical in nature. We happen to be on an upward trend in competitiveness right now https://www.aamc.org/download/153708/data/charts1982to2011.pdf

 

[wololololololo]

Reminds me of Panda Bear.

I was not destined for medical training. Some even doubted my dedication during the selection process. My grades and test scores were good, of course, as are everyone’s who is chosen to follow The Way. And it goes without saying that I had a medical degree from a third world country. Everybody does. It’s considered the bare minimum to prove your dedication to the Prophets. But I never really demonstrated my desire to be a physician, at least not where it counts. I amost cured small pox. I almost implemented a Single Payer System (Peace Be Upon Its Holiness) during one whirlwind summer in Tajikistan. I almost did this and I almost did that, never gaining a foothold, something that could convincingly show my dedication to medicine.

Even my admission novel wasn’t as long or as original as it should have been. I only worked on it for five years and the final product, while servicable and the recipient of several literary prizes was not considered Nobel material.

So I sometimes catch the disapproving glances of my fellow medical students. They whisper that I had some help gaining admission. Perhaps a relative on the admission comittee, maybe a few well placed donations to the High Professors.

Third world medical degrees and admissions novels, along with 4.0 GPAs, will become the new standard.

 

[notbobtrustme]

I'd like to point out that applicants with a 3.5/30 got in only 50% of the time. Oh, and only 43-44% of applicants get in

But seriously, this long term outline of the past 30 years of medical school admissions show that admissions is cyclical in nature. We happen to be on an upward trend in competitiveness right now https://www.aamc.org/download/153708/data/charts1982to2011.pdf

I don't think it's cyclical anymore. The fundamentals have changed in the American economy. Before, a bachelors was pretty much guaranteed a ticket to the middle class. Now, it can be a yoke due to student loans. On top of that, just about every field in America, except for healthcare, is paring back. Every major pharmaceutical company has been announcing layoffs and cutbacks in their R&D department. Every research spot at universities are flooded with overqualified applicants. I know of people with a MS in Biology doing menial lab work because they need something to pay the bills. I've seen people with postdocs go get a realty license because there's nothing attainable for them at the doctoral level. I know an electrical engineer who recently moved to Mexico because the American market is flooded with H1bs from India/China who are willing to work for 1/2 the wage. Looking broader, the American economy is becoming extremely stratified. You have great growth at the top, such as doctors, CEOs, VPs, head engineers. There's good growth at the bottom, cashiers, retail workers, etc etc. The big middle is stagnating.

 

[theWUbear]

This thread complete with quaint anecdote from old doctor occurs at least once a year without fail

 

[Suncrusher]

no, it's going to get easier.

 

[gmcguitar4]

I don't think it's cyclical anymore. The fundamentals have changed in the American economy. Before, a bachelors was pretty much guaranteed a ticket to the middle class. Now, it can be a yoke due to student loans. On top of that, just about every field in America, except for healthcare, is paring back. Every major pharmaceutical company has been announcing layoffs and cutbacks in their R&D department. Every research spot at universities are flooded with overqualified applicants. I know of people with a MS in Biology doing menial lab work because they need something to pay the bills. I've seen people with postdocs go get a realty license because there's nothing attainable for them at the doctoral level. I know an electrical engineer who recently moved to Mexico because the American market is flooded with H1bs from India/China who are willing to work for 1/2 the wage. Looking broader, the American economy is becoming extremely stratified. You have great growth at the top, such as doctors, CEOs, VPs, head engineers. There's good growth at the bottom, cashiers, retail workers, etc etc. The big middle is stagnating.

The economy is cyclical as well, but it is impossible to tell what is going to happen with whats going on. People need graduate degrees just to be a dog walker these days..

 

[Pietrantonio]

Raising the standards for medical school admission is just part of the process when you have thousands of applicants applying to medical school each year.

 

[SoundofSilver]

With the glut of new medical schools opening up, competition will probably remain stable or increase less than you might think. Yes, more people will look to medicine since our economy is in shambles and an MD is virtually the only degree that pretty much guarantees you a job. There are however a lot of reasons why most sane people would still not consider medicine and therefore will never apply to medical school: ridiculous student loans, a great deal of uncertainty in regard to the future of medicine in this country, wanting to have a life, etc.

Unfortunately, with an increase in medical schools and therefore students, this also means that competition for residency programs will increase. This issue is compounded by the notion that GME funding will probably get cut before it ever increases. This makes going to the Caribbean a (more) terrible idea and it also means it's going to be harder to land that ortho residency if that's what your after.

 

[searun]

Med school admissions are much more competitive now. Back in the day there were very few women in medicine. Now, med school classes are about 50 percent female.

75 percent of the AOA slots in my graduating med school class went to women. The majority of derm, plastics, and ent residencies in my class went to women. Women are beginning to dominate higher education. The presence of women in the applicant pool has made the process much more competitive - which is a good thing for the public.

 

[Morsetlis]

I think it's a feminist conspiracy.

 

[jcruiser]

no, it's going to get easier.

Let's hope.

 

[Law2Doc]

...

Also, people tend to over-exaggerate it. A lot.

agreed. GPA was ALWAYS important for med school. If an older doc said it wasn't, he's flat out misremembering. What has changed is the number of ECs, publications, etc that people have. So yeah it's more competitive, but not really from a grades point of view. MCAT scores are higher now because you are able to retake it, and additionally things changed once Kaplan and TPR became widely available, so that's not really a fair comparison. There are times when medicine has been more or less desirable, and med school admissions often reflect this. During the dot com boom all the smart college kids wanted to start Internet companies and med school applications dropped. They have come back in droves now that the economy has tanked. According to the LA Times this week, applications are up about 3%. I suspect as folks start to realize that the job options are getting tighter, it will fall off again in the next couple of years.

 

[acrxpharmacy]

Nowadays, experience is everything. So go out there and gain as much of it as you can, be it volunteer, internship, training, etc. But it definitely gets easier, so that's the good news.

 

[Smachadams]

Med school admissions are much more competitive now. Back in the day there were very few women in medicine. Now, med school classes are about 50 percent female.

75 percent of the AOA slots in my graduating med school class went to women. The majority of derm, plastics, and ent residencies in my class went to women. Women are beginning to dominate higher education. The presence of women in the applicant pool has made the process much more competitive - which is a good thing for the public.

80% of my university's student body is composed of women; which isn't bad for me.. But, its clear this is a trend that shows no signs of slowing down.

 

[Knocked Up]

80% of my university's student body is composed of women; which isn't bad for me.. But, its clear this is a trend that shows no signs of slowing down.

Dude I want to go to your school. You don't even need game with those stats.

 

[b-real]

It wont end with medical school admissions. Within the next few years, the number of medical school graduates (American MD, American DO and international/foreign MD) will be greater than the total number of first-year residency positions. And don't expect Congress to fix that anytime soon. Welcome to the new reality, kill or be killed.

 

[Law2Doc]

Doesn't mean they're hot/into guys. I'd be very weary about attending that one.

It's wary, not weary. Weary means tired.

 

[Law2Doc]

It wont end with medical school admissions. Within the next few years, the number of medical school graduates (American MD, American DO and international/foreign MD) will be greater than the total number of first-year residency positions. And don't expect Congress to fix that anytime soon. Welcome to the new reality, kill or be killed.

The goal of the AAMC is to have the number of US allo spots equal US allo residency spots. So yeah, if you aren't as grad from a US allo med school you are on the clock.

 

[CodeBlu]

The goal of the AAMC is to have the number of US allo spots equal US allo residency spots. So yeah, if you aren't as grad from a US allo med school you are on the clock.

http://studentdoctor.net/2009/03/the-scramble-how-it-works-and-how-it-can-be-improved/

In 2008, 4,214 programs participated in the match and a total of 25,066 positions were offered: total applicants were 35,956, 15,692 of whom were from accredited US schools and 20,264 who were independent. How’s that for fierce competition for a match? Of the almost 36,000 applicants, 28,737 submitted rank lists, of whom 20,940 matched.

Those independent students... the DO/IMG students are going to have a hell of a time securing residency spots when the US allopathic numbers go up to 20k+...

 

[CodeBlu]

It's wary, not weary. Weary means tired.