Is it overwhelming going to a school with a large percentage of pre-meds?

[mea326]

Has going to a school with a large population of pre-meds been detrimental or annoying? What have been your experiences in this situation- the good and the bad? I know most schools have many pre-meds, but in some schools they are very overepresented and I want to know how this affects the college experience.

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[Boolean]

Half of them have no clue what they're doing and fail out the first semester. A quarter decide the track is not right for them. The remaining quarter stays in and attempts their best. Of that quarter, about five percent of which have the "gunner" mentality, the rest of which seem fairly common and simply happy to be studying something they're passionate about (while helping others do so as well).

 

[Chansey]

I went to WashU. We have a very large pre-med community. This has only been beneficial.

Since a large portion of the undergraduate population is pre-med, there is a lot of academic and administrative support for med school hopefuls. For example, we have school-sponsored tutoring sessions for pre-med core classes like GenChem and Bio. We also have experienced PreHealth advisors. Less popular tracks like Pre-Law do not have these support systems.

I have heard complaints that the pre-med community is too high strung and "no fun". I think this is silly.

 

[Conflagration]

I go to an undergrad where a third of starting freshmen are pre-pharmacy tracked.

Around a third drop after General Chemistry, a half of the remaining flee after Organic, and a few more people may abandon ship after Biochemistry.

The ones that go through this start getting to know each other. They feel supported by each other- but there's also agitation because there's rumors that other people are getting together to cheat. Apparently it's been really combative this year.

I think it would depend on the environment of your school, though. ^^

 

[Afford]

I went to a school where 19% of the class applied to medical school, so the number of premeds during freshman year must have been far greater. I enjoyed my undergrad college and sure every premed cared about grades, but I never felt like anyone tried to sabotage anyone else and I never felt that anyone was cutthroat. Everyone was competitive, but we weren't competing against each other.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

I went to WashU. We have a very large pre-med community. This has only been beneficial.

Since a large portion of the undergraduate population is pre-med, there is a lot of academic and administrative support for med school hopefuls. For example, we have school-sponsored tutoring sessions for pre-med core classes like GenChem and Bio. We also have experienced PreHealth advisors. Less popular tracks like Pre-Law do not have these support systems.

I have heard complaints that the pre-med community is too high strung and "no fun". I think this is silly.

Same here. Wash U alum class of 2014. Certain Wash U premeds are "gunners" or generally not very nice people. Most of us still try to have fun while studying hard.

 

[SnakeOilForSale]

Most drop during or after first year prereqs (Gen Chem and Bio). Around ~70% of the people I spoke to in those classes were shooting for medical school, whereas in second year of prereqs (Gen Physics and Orgo) only around ~40% are. At that point, most are pre-pharm or engineering. I am very sure that by the end of this year, I will see an even smaller number in Biochem and upper divisionals who are still pre-med. But YMMV, my school is full of people who don't give a **** and are surprised that things take effort.

 

[efle]

Same here. Wash U alum class of 2014. Certain Wash U premeds are "gunners" or generally not very nice people. Most of us still try to have fun while studying hard.

+1 agreed. I've heard some places (cough JHop cough MIT cough) are insanely competitive though so this might not be universal

 

[Kochanie]

Half of them have no clue what they're doing and fail out the first semester. A quarter decide the track is not right for them. The remaining quarter stays in and attempts their best. Of that quarter, about five percent of which have the "gunner" mentality, the rest of which seem fairly common and simply happy to be studying something they're passionate about (while helping others do so as well).

Nope, not everywhere.

 

[Kochanie]

Yes, especially when it's at a top school that grades on a curve/deflates. Cutthroat and people will literally do anything to bring down others/get ahead.

 

[Dr. Retractor]

Yes, especially when it's at any school that grades on a curve/deflates. Cutthroat and people will literally do anything to bring down others/get ahead.

FTFY. If a schools deflates grades or grades on a curve then there will be a lot of competition whether it's a top school or not.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

Yes, especially when it's at a top school that grades on a curve/deflates. Cutthroat and people will literally do anything to bring down others/get ahead.

I'd like to argue that Wash U is a top school that grades on a curve/deflates but does NOT have that cutthroat mentality. We help each other try to get as high of a score possible for every exam by studying together.

 

[Kochanie]

FTFY. If a schools deflates grades or grades on a curve then there will be a lot of competition whether it's a top school or not.

Meh... Not when 1/2 the class doesn't give a **** and just take it to get some requirement out of the way.

 

[Kochanie]

I'd like to argue that Wash U is a top school that grades on a curve/deflates but does NOT have that cutthroat mentality. We help each other try to get as high of a score possible for every exam by studying together.

Hmm... I can see that being true for friends, but not otherwise. I mean it sounds great, just not quite reasonable. The only people I've helped were classmates that were truly struggling (C- students) or after I've already taken it.

 

[Boolean]

Nope, not everywhere.

I'm confused by your statement. The OP asked for our specific experiences, and in turn, I listed them. How can you comment upon my experience?

 

[TxC]

I go to a school with more than 40,000 undergrad students. It's amazing how many pre-meds there are.

I have to say that some of them are pretty annoying, but a few are really awesome people.

If you want to avoid them, choose to be a non-science major; that's what I did.

 

[efle]

Nah, you can walk into a chem lab TA room and find a dozen strangers to work closely with and compare with

 

[Dr. Retractor]

.

 

[allantois]

What's your basis for saying that? I said that what you outlined does happen outside of the top schools. And then you assume that since these schools are outside of the top 20 (or 30, or 40, or 50), that half of the students don't care. Students in college usually care about their grade in a course. There might be a few slackers, but never more than like 10% of the class. People who didn't get into top schools are not automatically dumb. Clear evidence of the superiority complex you Ivy-League students have.

I go to a state school and I constantly hear people talking about how happy they are with their passing grade.

 

[swolebrah]

My biochem class has over 400 students between 2 professors .,.so idk I was told the classes get smaller after Ochem.

 

[Kochanie]

What's your basis for saying that? I said that what you outlined does happen outside of the top schools. And then you assume that since these schools are outside of the top 20 (or 30, or 40, or 50), that half of the students don't care. Students in college usually care about their grade in a course. There might be a few slackers, but never more than like 10% of the class. People who didn't get into top schools are not automatically dumb. Clear evidence of the superiority complex you Ivy-League students have.

I don't go to an Ivy League, I wish I did. Because then competing with cutthroat people would give me a B+, not B- (not at all, but like Harvard/Yale). lol... I see the people that go to bottom state schools (like, the ones that take anyone), they hand out Bs if you show up.

 

[csx]

I went to a school where under 10 people apply a year and of those a good 40% have no idea what they're doing, of the remaining maybe 1 or 2 know what theyre doing.

 

[HinduHammer]

Strangely enough, I also went to WashU (though a few years older than my fellow bears). To answer your question OP: Yes, I found it overwhelming. The thing that overwhelmed was this: from a very young age I wanted to do medicine (due to taking care of my disabled sister and becoming interested in the physics and biology of the human body), but never had a taste for the sheer competition involved. Many of my fellow pre-meds were grade obsesses, and, like, "study obsesses" -- spending full weekends in the library, spending so much time on their work that it was just distasteful. It overwhelmed me because the other pre-meds frankly just turned me off to wanting to pursue that path. Further, I was not mature enough to set such a high goal and adhere to it in such a competitive environment. I was more interested in going to the gym, partying, and chasing skirts. So, it was a combination of the extremely intense pre-med apparatus and student population that I found extremely overwhelming. I remember one of my roommates in the dorm (who just recently graduated from Vanderbil med) -- really nice kid, who claimed to "love" basketball and knew the stats of all his team's players, but looked so severely awkward actually holding a ball - I mean, I couldn't even call him on it because it would have been so sad. When I was out playing ball on weeknights with friends, he was literally getting gray hairs studying. This was the kind of kid I was comparing myself to everyday: was I studying as hard as him? did I want *it* bad enough? Like I said, I just wanted to do medicine to maybe be an orthopedist or a geneticist, and the intensity of the pre-med life really just turned me off. That all being said, your mileage def may vary. I found it extremely annoying, however, YMMV.

 

[MrMe123]

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[Ace Khalifa]

Strangely enough, I also went to WashU (though a few years older than my fellow bears). To answer your question OP: Yes, I found it overwhelming. The thing that overwhelmed was this: from a very young age I wanted to do medicine (due to taking care of my disabled sister and becoming interested in the physics and biology of the human body), but never had a taste for the sheer competition involved. Many of my fellow pre-meds were grade obsesses, and, like, "study obsesses" -- spending full weekends in the library, spending so much time on their work that it was just distasteful. It overwhelmed me because the other pre-meds frankly just turned me off to wanting to pursue that path. Further, I was not mature enough to set such a high goal and adhere to it in such a competitive environment. I was more interested in going to the gym, partying, and chasing skirts. So, it was a combination of the extremely intense pre-med apparatus and student population that I found extremely overwhelming. I remember one of my roommates in the dorm (who just recently graduated from Vanderbil med) -- really nice kid, who claimed to "love" basketball and knew the stats of all his team's players, but looked so severely awkward actually holding a ball - I mean, I couldn't even call him on it because it would have been so sad. When I was out playing ball on weeknights with friends, he was literally getting gray hairs studying. This was the kind of kid I was comparing myself to everyday: was I studying as hard as him? did I want *it* bad enough? Like I said, I just wanted to do medicine to maybe be an orthopedist or a geneticist, and the intensity of the pre-med life really just turned me off. That all being said, your mileage def may vary. I found it extremely annoying, however, YMMV.

Not all Wash U premeds are like that. Otherwise, I wouldn't have been friends with them lol. I just scoff at the ones who get soooooo caught up in the studying and grade-grubbing because obviously, they miss the big picture - Medicine is a service profession, first and foremost. If you are unable to help patients in the end, then it doesn't matter how much you studied or what grades you got.

 

[HinduHammer]

Not all Wash U premeds are like that. Otherwise, I wouldn't have been friends with them lol. I just scoff at the ones who get soooooo caught up in the studying and grade-grubbing because obviously, they miss the big picture - Medicine is a service profession, first and foremost. If you are unable to help patients in the end, then it doesn't matter how much you studied or what grades you got.

I agree not all pre-meds are like that, many of my great friends were pre-med (and now doctors). I guess, when the atmosphere of the pre-med culture as I perceived did not at all emphasize the service aspect of it, and rather the prestige/money/parental-influence/generic-wanting-to-help-people, pre-med became not so much about eventually becoming a physician, but some sort of beast in and of itself. I'm sure this is what its like at many schools. The same students competing for the student EMT positions or research gigs with esteemed professors, etc. Lol, could also just be because I hung out with a lot of the brown kids (Atma/Ashoka), and they were over represented in the smarmy pre-med pool. More power to you for remaining a mature, above it all, and competitive applicant

 

[Ace Khalifa]

I agree not all pre-meds are like that, many of my great friends were pre-med (and now doctors). I guess, when the atmosphere of the pre-med culture as I perceived did not at all emphasize the service aspect of it, and rather the prestige/money/parental-influence/generic-wanting-to-help-people, pre-med became not so much about eventually becoming a physician, but some sort of beast in and of itself. I'm sure this is what its like at many schools. The same students competing for the student EMT positions or research gigs with esteemed professors, etc. Lol, could also just be because I hung out with a lot of the brown kids (Atma/Ashoka), and they were over represented in the smarmy pre-med pool. More power to you for remaining a mature, above it all, and competitive applicant

I didn't want to assume anything from your SDN handle, but okay, that makes sense. I was never part of that group, but some of my close friends (Asians lol) did end up integrating into that crowd. It didn't turn them off, tho, and now they're all taking gap years like me. And thanks! I hope we both hear good news from #MizzouMed soon!

 

[Chansey]

I agree not all pre-meds are like that, many of my great friends were pre-med (and now doctors). I guess, when the atmosphere of the pre-med culture as I perceived did not at all emphasize the service aspect of it, and rather the prestige/money/parental-influence/generic-wanting-to-help-people, pre-med became not so much about eventually becoming a physician, but some sort of beast in and of itself. I'm sure this is what its like at many schools. The same students competing for the student EMT positions or research gigs with esteemed professors, etc. Lol, could also just be because I hung out with a lot of the brown kids (Atma/Ashoka), and they were over represented in the smarmy pre-med pool. More power to you for remaining a mature, above it all, and competitive applicant

I didn't want to assume anything from your SDN handle, but okay, that makes sense. I was never part of that group, but some of my close friends (Asians lol) did end up integrating into that crowd. It didn't turn them off, tho, and now they're all taking gap years like me. And thanks! I hope we both hear good news from #MizzouMed soon!

Ok so I may have been one of those WashU premeds who spent weekends at the library, hahaha...

People often tell me that I take classes too seriously, but the reality is this: The pre-med curriculum is high stakes. Poor grades cannot be erased. They can tank your chances of admission to medical school. Your friends who spend every day in the library know this.

Y'all can probably can get good grades with minimal studying. I envy you. For me, studying long hours is absolutely required to ensure good performance on exams. I don't mean to stress out my peers or seem cutthroat. I'm just trying to do my best and maximize my chances of medical school.

To answer OP's question: I think the benefit of having a large pre-med class is that you know you are not alone in your struggles - your friends understand what you are going through. You are your classmates are in this together.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

Ok so I may have been one of those WashU premeds who spent weekends at the library, hahaha...

People often tell me that I take classes too seriously, but the reality is this: The pre-med curriculum is high stakes. Poor grades cannot be erased. They can tank your chances of admission to medical school. Your friends who spend every day in the library know this.

Y'all can probably can get good grades with minimal studying. I envy you. For me, studying long hours is absolutely required to ensure good performance on exams. I don't mean to stress out my peers or seem cutthroat. I'm just trying to do my best and maximize my chances of medical school.

To answer OP's question: I think the benefit of having a large pre-med class is that you know you are not alone in your struggles - your friends understand what you are going through. You are your classmates are in this together.

Yet GPA and MCAT don't need to be super high to get into med school. Most of the lower tier schools I applied to did not give me an II because my stats are too high and they are hesitant to interview me because they think I think they're my "safeties." It takes a lot more than GPA and MCAT.

 

[Silverflash]

I went to a pretty heavy pre-med school and loved it. Everyone was really supportive of each other and it was great having friends to compare experiences to.

 

[Chansey]

Yet GPA and MCAT don't need to be super high to get into med school. Most of the lower tier schools I applied to did not give me an II because my stats are too high and they are hesitant to interview me because they think I think they're my "safeties." It takes a lot more than GPA and MCAT.

Correct. Medical schools want the entire package - an academically successful applicant with good social skills and leadership abilities. GPA and MCAT are not the only factors - but they can screen you out. The GPA and MCAT are there to show medical schools you can pass your classes and the boards.

 

[nkolstate96]

My school doesn't offer a pre-med major, so most of us are bio majors. The intro to bio for science majors class has 870 people, and that's just one of two sections. 80% are pre-med. I also live in a dorm specifically for science students, and easily more than half were pre-med. I'd say half of us, myself included, will be switching majors from bio to something else. I still plan to stay pre-med.

 

[Kochanie]

I don't know what school you go to, but my undergrad, JHU, is seen as cutthroat-premed-central, and I never experienced any cutthroat individuals during my entire education. Or maybe those types of people just made sure they were never around so we would have never known.

However, grade deflation was a real thing there, and it was definitely a struggle. I didn't feel students made that any worse than the rules of the curve / institution made it.

I recommend going to a strong pre-med geared school, you get a great support system of advisors and friends that are like-minded.

I'm taking 300 levels now that don't grade on a curve (like 10 people in the class) and it's night and day. Literally the whole class gets together to help one another.

Ugh, I'm glad you've had a great experience at JHU, I'm just trying to get out of my school ASAP with as little damage as possible.

 

[efle]

Jeez guys, I play my sport 3-4 nights a week plus tournaments, party, and also study neurotically. It's not like you have to pick one or the other, you just don't sleep.

Competitive application to med school? The college experience?

 

[Ace Khalifa]

^Yup, that about sums it up for most sensible people lol.

 

[Person0715]

I went to a small school with a sizeable premed population. I found the other premeds annoying, which is why I am so glad I did a non science major. Personally, I would hate going to an undergrad where there is a majority of premeds.

 

[Nica56744]

My school has a decent percentage of premeds. I know most of them peripherally through courses and have definitely had good experiences working with them on labs/studying for exams/whatever, but most of them are confined to a few specific science majors. I am very involved in my major department which is not a science. As a result, none of my close friends are premed.

Personally, it's been a godsend during the application process. In my one science class, everyone is always talking about interviews and whatnot, and it stresses me out to no end. I love being able to go home and put the whole thing out of my mind. But I am also the kind of person that puts the work in, but tends not to stress much about exams. It sends me into panic mode when everyone around me is frantically flipping through index cards five minutes before an exam while I'm looking at buzzfeed articles about cats. I think most of them find support in having all their friends be premed/talking about the application process to death though.

Basically, even in a school with a crazy amount of premeds, you can be involved in that culture as much or as little as you want. You just have to figure out what's best for you.

 

[mimelim]

I went to WashU. We have a very large pre-med community. This has only been beneficial.

Since a large portion of the undergraduate population is pre-med, there is a lot of academic and administrative support for med school hopefuls. For example, we have school-sponsored tutoring sessions for pre-med core classes like GenChem and Bio. We also have experienced PreHealth advisors. Less popular tracks like Pre-Law do not have these support systems.

I have heard complaints that the pre-med community is too high strung and "no fun". I think this is silly.

Same here. Wash U alum class of 2014. Certain Wash U premeds are "gunners" or generally not very nice people. Most of us still try to have fun while studying hard.

I'd like to argue that Wash U is a top school that grades on a curve/deflates but does NOT have that cutthroat mentality. We help each other try to get as high of a score possible for every exam by studying together.

I find this very interesting. I had a very different experience as you guys at Wash U. Perhaps things have changed a lot since I graduated, but I kinda doubt it. I was late to the pre-med party, was a Physics major and applied to medical school on a whim for lack of a better way of putting it. So that having been said...

I specifically told/tell HS students to not go to Wash U for pre-med. Fantastic school, but the pre-med community is painful. When I took orgo, two students found a way to beat the curve. They started distributing 'fake' tests. ie. prior tests, but with wrong solutions/misleading explanations in order to sabotage others. Further, I TAed Physics 117/118/197/198 for 3 years. I was appalled by the lack of support students had for one another. My office hours were overloaded (10-12 students normally, 25-30 the week before an exam) and people wouldn't trust their classmates to help them. They wanted to hear it from me directly for fear of being misled. Clearly I only did undergrad at one school, but I just can't imagine that being normal.

Also, the pre-health advisors are, like most schools next to useless. They know the basics and for the typical student probably are marginally helpful, but if you aren't a traditional, standard track bio major, they don't have a lot to offer.

 

[efle]

I find this very interesting. I had a very different experience as you guys at Wash U. Perhaps things have changed a lot since I graduated, but I kinda doubt it. I was late to the pre-med party, was a Physics major and applied to medical school on a whim for lack of a better way of putting it. So that having been said...

I specifically told/tell HS students to not go to Wash U for pre-med. Fantastic school, but the pre-med community is painful. When I took orgo, two students found a way to beat the curve. They started distributing 'fake' tests. ie. prior tests, but with wrong solutions/misleading explanations in order to sabotage others. Further, I TAed Physics 117/118/197/198 for 3 years. I was appalled by the lack of support students had for one another. My office hours were overloaded (10-12 students normally, 25-30 the week before an exam) and people wouldn't trust their classmates to help them. They wanted to hear it from me directly for fear of being misled. Clearly I only did undergrad at one school, but I just can't imagine that being normal.

Also, the pre-health advisors are, like most schools next to useless. They know the basics and for the typical student probably are marginally helpful, but if you aren't a traditional, standard track bio major, they don't have a lot to offer.

At least some of that has changed, I just took 117/118 and Orgo and had not a single instance of competative behavior. For orgo lab there were usually big groups of people working together and with TAs that anyone could join into, and my dorm floor did group review of the practice exams before each test.

I do agree that the premed advisors are next to useless however. They've misinformed me multiple times.

Edit: out of curiosity where DO you recommend to high schoolers for premed? Anything Top 20 or are they all too similar to washu?

 

[tantacles]

At least some of that has changed, I just took 117/118 and Orgo and had not a single instance of competative behavior. For orgo lab there were usually big groups of people working together and with TAs that anyone could join into, and my dorm floor did group review of the practice exams before each test.

I do agree that the premed advisors are next to useless however. They've misinformed me multiple times.

Edit: out of curiosity where DO you recommend to high schoolers for premed? Anything Top 20 or are they all too similar to washu?

I had a great experience at Brandeis University in Massachusetts for pre-med. If you're a stellar student, you can get a great merit scholarship that will pay for a great deal of your education; I would strongly recommend it. One of my good friends chose it over Penn and ended up getting accepted his sophomore year to Tufts University Medical School through the school's early acceptance linkage, meaning he didn't stress out about the MCAT or AMCAS in the slightest.

 

[efle]

Well bringing scholarship aid into the picture makes it a whole different ball game, then giant state schools become a great option because they're nearly free for the kind of person looking at Top 20s. The real question is If it would be free to go anywhere, whats the best place to go for premed? I thought most people would say premed-oriented schools like JHop and WashU are good picks, but apparently its the opposite and they're full of gunners!

 

[tymont12]

I've always heard that only 1 out of 10 college freshman who start out premed will end up becoming a physician. I strongly believe that is true.

I went to a 25,000 person state school in the PNW. My experience mirrors what others have said; everyone and their grandma are premed their first-term of freshman year. As time went by, or even after a single exam, I would see people change majors, change focus (I.E., from premed to pre-pa or, god forbid, pre-podiatry). You can basically guess that people change their goals as their GPA changes. Or, drop out. At my institution, which is known for science and engineering, only 60% of people who enter will end up receiving a bachelors degree.

Throughout undergrad, I felt the premed label was a hindrance. Although some professors are understanding, most feel miffed about the fact that you do not want to go into their field of study and most people think you just want to do it for the paycheck. As a whole, I found it draining to be around others who actively called themselves premeds. These people would usually either be gunners and try to make you feel like crap for 'knowing nothing,' or they would be completely apathetic about the process involved to become a doc and were like chickens running around with their heads cut off. BUT, you will find some really great people. Not every premed is awful I think premed just attracts a lot of flak due to the high attrition rate by 4th year.

 

[Afford]

Go to the top 20 with grade inflation. My undergrad's average GPA for a student was 3.5-3.6, but med schools don't know that.

 

[efle]

I think they do know that. Most top 20's keep the middle in core STEM classes around a B/3.0 but a few notoriously inflate to like an A-/3.7 median (cough harvard cough yale cough stanford).

 

[Afford]

I think they do know that. Most top 20's keep the middle in core STEM classes around a B/3.0 but a few notoriously inflate to like an A-/3.7 median (cough harvard cough yale cough stanford).

Even if they might know that, they still want to keep their median GPA high. Also, I want to know the difference between median GPA of a student to a median GPA of med school applicant because I feel that in schools that grade deflate, people might be less willing to apply or recommended to do a post-bacc if they have a low GPA, so the applicants who apply have a stronger GPA compared to the average student.

 

[Kochanie]

I think they do know that. Most top 20's keep the middle in core STEM classes around a B/3.0 but a few notoriously inflate to like an A-/3.7 median (cough harvard cough yale cough stanford).

True, but besides giving a slight bump, they want to keep their numbers high.

 

[DaddyBex28]

I attended a big public university that is ranked in the top 20 worldwide. A large majority were pre-med to begin with, and it was incredibly intimidating and overwhelming with 200-500 people lectures with one professor for most intro science classes. While many of the intro classes were heavily curved, it was still a struggle to do well and study amongst many of those who had been in the top of their class in high school.

Also, this particular university was not the most helpful. When I sought a pre-med advisor to discuss some poor grades and re-taking classes after not doing well freshman year, they basically told me to give up and that I wouldn't do well enough the second time to actually get accepted to medical school.

I thought long and hard if I should continue with medicine because this undergraduate program was so difficult and emotionally and mentally trying.

But...here I am today, a newly accepted applicant.

If you have enough drive and motivation, you can do it. Don't let the haters getcha down.

 

[efle]

I've heard that advisers can try to discourage potentially weak applicants to protect their numbers (we got X% of premeds into medical schools etc). Way to go

 

[ithd]

I've heard of this, but maybe they're also looking out for the applicants. If an adviser genuinely thinks that an applicant will have serious trouble in the application cycle, then they generally advise taking other steps (SMP, gap years in research, volunteering, etc) before applying. Also, if they were to write a committee letter for this weak candidate, I can't imagine it would be overwhelmingly positive or else it would undermine the letters given to the strongest applicants. I'd like to think they're here to help us rather than simply beef up #s...

 

[YamNMangos]

I find this very interesting. I had a very different experience as you guys at Wash U. Perhaps things have changed a lot since I graduated, but I kinda doubt it. I was late to the pre-med party, was a Physics major and applied to medical school on a whim for lack of a better way of putting it. So that having been said...

I specifically told/tell HS students to not go to Wash U for pre-med. Fantastic school, but the pre-med community is painful. When I took orgo, two students found a way to beat the curve. They started distributing 'fake' tests. ie. prior tests, but with wrong solutions/misleading explanations in order to sabotage others. Further, I TAed Physics 117/118/197/198 for 3 years. I was appalled by the lack of support students had for one another. My office hours were overloaded (10-12 students normally, 25-30 the week before an exam) and people wouldn't trust their classmates to help them. They wanted to hear it from me directly for fear of being misled. Clearly I only did undergrad at one school, but I just can't imagine that being normal.

Also, the pre-health advisors are, like most schools next to useless. They know the basics and for the typical student probably are marginally helpful, but if you aren't a traditional, standard track bio major, they don't have a lot to offer.

I think it has probably changed a lot, and since there is a lot back and forth about WashU, I'll pitch in my two cents as well

I really enjoyed my premed experience at WashU. In terms of competitiveness of the pre-med community. I don't think I noticed signs of anyone trying to directly sabotage other students to try and beat the curve. I think the experience is really what you make of it. You can either be super competitive and always try to beat the curve by yourself, or you can help those around you (at the same time realizing that helping a few people is not going to make a dent on the curve with hundreds of students), and in the process likely drastically improve your scores as well. You will also likely make many more friends as well .

I always go by the mentality that if you can teach someone something (correctly, of course), then you have really learned it. I think having that mentality is very important. Also, pick your friends and people you study with. I generally like studying with max 1-2 people as that allows me to actively contribute, and having other people's perspectives and questions often allowed me to fill up knowledge gaps that I haven't considered before.

In general, I found the premed community to be generally very nice students and fun to hang around with. Most of them I actually got to know outside of academics through student organizations. There will always be a few that are "gunnerish" (front row anyone? xD), but I can usually tell pretty quickly and I try to avoid them when possible.

WashU has a lot of research and student organizations that predominantly serves premeds. These resources and opportunities can be invaluable for premeds to develop a strong portfolio. I do agree though that most of the pre-health advisors are pretty useless. Get to know upperclassmen - they are much better resources. Also, career center is great for interview practice .