Is It Possible?!?!?!

[DrSmile]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Hey everyone....I'm entering dental school in August and am thinking about my options...I am interested I think...in specializing in Orthodontics or OMS (That's if i get the grades of course!) I would really appreciate getting some feedback on if you think it's possible to hold an office for an organization or the class, do research, AND...still get good enuff grades to get into one of those residencies.

I've been reading this forum the past couple days and have come of the realization that it's super duper tuff to get a spot in the dental residency that I'm looking for. Anyways, any insight and help will truly be appreciated...THANKX!! 🙂

 

[Yah-E]

Smile:

I finished my first year of dental school just this past year and I will be a second year in August.

First year, I was involved in the following:

1) Student Government - Class President

I am still involved in the following:

1) Nova Southeastern University Ambassador - Presidential Knights
2) Dental Fraternity - Psi Omega
3) ASDA
4) SOSA - Student Osteopathic Surgery Association (due to my interest in OMS)

My grades:

First semester (24 credits): 91.08/100 = 3.64 GPA
Second semester (33 credits): 87.13/100 = 3.49 GPA
Cumulative GPA end of first year: 88.88/100 = 3.56 GPA

Ranking:
End of first semester: 17th out of 99
End of first year: 21st out of 99

Now to answer your questions about being actively involved and still obtaining those top notch numbers? It will be a very challenging task, but achievable.

It will depend on a lot of discipline as well as time management. As a class officer last year, especially as the President, I had to deal with a lot of issues and problems from classmates, faculty and the administration. I was constantly on the go with meetings, appointments, announcements and planning for events/meetings.

As soon as I was no longer the Class President towards the end of the year, I realized how much free time was available to me and my day-to-day life that I can dedicate to my hobbies or school work. What a relief, I tell ya!

As far as research goes, there really isn't much time during the first year in the academic calendar for you to do it, at least at my dental school. With our curriculum at Nova, it's pretty much a 8 - 5 PM job. By the time you're done for the day, you're either tired, hungry, and/or have million things that you have to do. Each dental school has different curriculum schedules and some dental school just may have set aside time for research for their first year students. Most likely, you'll not going to have time to do research. Usually research activities are set aside for summers and holiday breaks.

The top 5 students in my class, they're not very active in organizations, student government, or any organized clubs. They study, they work out, and they find time for their friends/family or things that they "want" to do, but they don't commit themselves with anything additional tasks that they don't have to be involved with. A lot of them are just concentrating on earning good grades so they can have options available to them later instead of building on their Curriculum Vitae (CV) now by being involved.

If you wish to specialize, then first and foremost is to determine which specialty suit you best by talking, research and exposing yourself to that particular specialty. Set a direction. If you do the shotgun approach and say "well, I want to specialize in X, Y, and Z, but I don't know which?", then your preparation may just have to be more board than specific meaning your only goal right now is to get good grades.

If you want Ortho, then top 5 in class rank you must aim for! I can tell you one thing, after a year of dental school under my belt, if you constantly try to earn a 98/100 (which is pretty much what you'll need to do be #1) on every single quizzes, exams, projects, speeches, and presentations WILL BE VERY VERY VERY VERY difficult and stressful. I praise the #1 student in my class and I have the most atmost respect for that person!

I work hard and I bust my ass off in dental school and I'm very proud of what I have so far accomplished. Do I like that I'm #21 in the class, yes, I'm very happy! I've built a solid foundation for my grades and I look forward to continue to enhance that foundation in the semesters to come.

If you choose to be active in organizations, student government, and/or clubs, then some aspects of your lifestyle will be sacraficed whether it's your grades, time with family/friends, social life and/or your health (meaning that you probably won't have time to eat healthy and work out).

It's really a balance of life game, something will have to give if you spread yourself thin. If you do everything and still manage to earn all 90s/100 in all of your classes, then you're truly a indestructable super duper dental student!

I will admit, my spring semester grades had suffered due to my involvement in the Student government. I had to deal with a particular issue with a group of my classmates last year as the Class President during the most busiest time of the second semester (we had like 8 exams within like 10 days or something), between the emotional stress and crap that I shouldn't have been dealing with, my studying focus and time had suffered. I definitely would had been more stressed free if I wasn't the Class President. It is for this sole reason, to be stress free, I no longer wish to be involved in Class Officers!

If you want to be involved, then get ready to sacrafice and deal with crap that you otherwise wouldn't have to deal with if you weren't involved.

Good luck!

Remember, a dental school experience is what you make out of it. Don't let the school or anyone else make it for you!

 

[hopefully]

how do you know your ranking? does the school post a sheet of paper saying what number each student is in terms of the other students. does this mean each student knows who is number 2, or 5, etc... i thought this type of thing would be kept confidential. by the way, good luck Yah-E on your boards!

 

[Yah-E]

At Nova, our class rankings are not advertised or posted. After each and every academic semester if you wish to know where you are, then you can find out by contacting the secretary to the Dean of Student Acadmic Affairs and she will inform you of your rank.

Now, I'm not sure how other dental school does it, but finding out your rankings is not as forbidden as you think.

As far as knowing who's #1 through #10 in your class, it's usually pretty obviously by the following way:

1. classmates advertise it after they find out where they are in the rankings

2. you see a particular classmate or two that constantly gets a 98/100 on every quizzes, exams, presentations, and projects when you look at the posted grades for every class (at Nova every student is given a secret code number to ID by so your name and what you recieved as a grade is not obvious) But soon after, exam after an exam, you see the same person getting the same 98/100 grade over and over, people tend to talk about it and you soon find out who that genious person is

3. Dental School Student Awards day - at Nova we have a Dental Student Award day. For the Academic Acheivement Award, the top ten students of each class are recognized. The awards aren't passed out based on your class rank order, but at least you know who the top ten students of your class are.

4. by the end of the first semester, you tend to know who are the smart classmates and who are the "I'm fine with a 70/100" classmates. Who are the "gunners" and who are the "slackers"!

Usually the top ten of your class is not a secret. Ask any current dental students on this SDN thing, I bet you all of them knows who's #1 in their classes if not all Top 5.

It's not advertised, but it gets pretty obvious!

 

[Jyaki]

Yah-E, great information!
I do have a question though. Which if more favored if you're interested in specializing: 1). Great grades with no organizational/research work or 2). Pretty good grades with a lot of organizational/research work?
Thanks!

 

[Yah-E]

Jyaki:

I see that you're at Twin Cities, MN! That's where I did my undergrad degree at the "U"! Are you a "U" student?

To answer your question, it depends what you want to specialize in:

We'll use Ortho and OMS for examples:

For Ortho: ranges from #1 - #5, but usually more #1s & #2s

for this I think that concentrating on your grades is much more important. Since your grade/GPA foundation is pretty much the first two years of the dental school, bust you tail off for the first two years and then worry about research and other Ortho related extracurricular activities after your second year of dental school. By doing this, you'll have plenty of time and opportunity to boost up your C.V./resume in time for you to apply for residencies.

Grades are VERY important for Ortho hopefuls. Save the extracurricular activities and involvements for after the 2nd year of dental school. Getting As is your most definitely priority!

For OMS: usually ranges from top 10 to even top 1/3 of your graduating class (big classes like 100 classmates or so)

For OMS, grades are also very important, but I don't believe that there are the stress of MUST BE #1 or #2 in the class scenarios. If you have a respectable GPA, class rank, and NBDE Part I scores, you'll be fine. From communicating with numerous OMS directors throughout the country, it sounds like they do emphasize extracurricular activities in grading their applicants' competitiveness. Research experience being the biggest bonus and Student Government involvement being the next in line for notible bonuses.

One thing that both of these specialties share in common is their emphasis on NBDE Part I scores! An average of 90 usually is a must to be considered competitive (sort of like getting a 18/18 on the DAT for dental admissions to consider you as minimal).

Do keep in mind, there are always an outlair in these statistics. I'm sure there are applicants with substandard numbers who matched into both Ortho and OMS. These numbers are only a guideline.

If you have a 3.6 GPA, in the top 15 in class rank, and at least a 90 average on NBDE Part I, then you'll know it's not your numbers that kept you out of matching an OMS residency.

If you have a 3.7 GPA, in the top 5 in class rank, and at least a 90 average on NBDE Part I, then you'll know it's not your numbers that kept you out of matching an Ortho residency.

Aim for those numbers to be safe.

So, if you want Ortho, then go with your option #1
If you want other specialties, then go with your option #2

This is all just my opinion and non-expertise! Well, applying to OMS is a little my expertise I could say....😉

 

[drillerNfiller]

I am going to have to disagree with many things that have been mentioned here in this forum.

First, the most important thing you can do to specialize, is to first figure out what specialty you want to pursue. For example, ortho and OMS are basically on totally oppposite ends of the dental spectrum, my advice would be to first find out more about all the specialties before worrying about how to get in. I did not really know what periodontics, prosthodontics, and endodontics were until after 2 years of dental school. I actually had a dean on a post grad admissions board tell me he looks down on any first year students that come to him and ask how to get into his specialty. It is hard to know until at least a couple of years what dentistry and the various specialties are all about. Most of our classes do General Residencies after graduation because they still have not figured it out.

Also, grades and board scores are extremely important but, it is silly to think that a certain score or grade or class ranking of any kind will guarantee you admission or even an interview to any specialty program. Approximately 1/3 of our class goes straight in to specialty programs after graduation. Every year I hear the horror story of the kid who was tops in everything and did not get in anywhere. But the other side to the coin is I also hear about all the people whose grades were not even in the top half of the class and they matched into, endo, ortho, OMFS, etc.

 

[Doggie]

I agree with DrillerNfiller.....

Numbers are important, but it's not like bingo where you need the exact numbers to win. A lot of schools out there dont even have letter grades or class rankings. I think those numbers mentioned by Yah-E are just so that you will be in a "Safe-zone" when you apply.....but even then it's not a guarantee.

2 chief residents of OMS in another hospital that I did a rotation recently in NY got 91 and 92 on their NBDE 1......

A few 98's in this years graduating class didnt get into Ortho.....while the 93-95's did.

Also, I've been hearing some OMS residents saying that there are actually more open spots in OMS than the applicant pool. "Almost" anyone who applies may get in...........granted if you dont mind doing your residency in some bunghole place where the sun wont shine on a dog's @ss.

 

[ddstothecor]

Good doggie, good doggie, *hand trembles with fear*
Good good boy, *backs away cautiously*
Please, please don't bite me doggie *shuts eyes with sweat dripping*

That's a cool avatar Doggie. Is that your dog?

About the OMS thing, where are there unprocured seats for applicants--what are these podunk, no sun places of which you speak?

 

[Doggie]

Nah........I wish that was my dog tho.....hehe.......pretty fiesty!

Actually......I dont know the exact locations of those programs... I would imagine that they are pretty darn far from any civilization!

 

[tinker bell]

Hehe doggie, it's a good pix you got there. I'd rather be a general dentist in sunshine CA.

 

[DrSmile]

You guys are funny! hahaha (Doggie)
But I just want to thank everyone who replied to this message...It's really helped me out a lot!!! I know everything about admissions to anything is not set in stone, but a few tips from people gives me an idea of what kind of things they're looking for.

PS...Yah-E I PMed you.

 

[ajmacgregor]

Hey Dr. Smile,
It is possible to do what you've suggested. While I echo the sentiments of Yah-E's post, there are a few additional points to consider:

1. You cannot only consider the potential OMFS/Ortho applicants from your school. You must also consider the applicants from other schools, since there is a much higher probability that you will be judged against them than against your own classmates.

That being said, you need to be aware that some schools have stellar applicants in the eyes of residency directors because they REQUIRE students to do research. For example, Harvard requires that all DMD students complete a research thesis (one of the reasons I decided not to go there). If you look at Harvard's match rate (it's almost always 100%, with at least 25% of the class going Ortho/Endo and 10% going OMFS), that will give you a good idea of the weight that is placed on research and NBDE Part 1 scores (since Harvard students aren't ranked).

Anecdotally, when I interviewed at Harvard, I met a student who told me that there are students there who have published 6-7 articles, presented at national conferences, are active in student government, and dedicated to volunteer work. While this is an amazing dossier, you need to be aware that these are the people you will be up against for spots at top OMFS/Ortho programs.

So can you be a stellar research/extracurricular student and get great grades? That isn't the important question. The important question is How can you be a stellar student and have great extracurriculars - because that is what the residency directors are looking for.

Just my 2 cents.

AJ

 

[ibo man]

When I interviewed at SIU dental school I meet a student , who was an endodontist resident. He said that you don't have to be in the top of your class to match to the program. That if you're at least in the top 20% that it could be possible. He said that it is very important to do some research, and doing the two year residency after dental school. Help him match to an endodontist residency program. He said that as long as you have time, and the desire that it is really possible to specialize.