Is it time to rebel against the ABP?

[Thrombus]

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Members don't see this ad.

Got my certificate and at the bottom right corner is says "License valide until ......" or whatever the ____ it says

Remember that the guy sitting in his office making $$$ who took his boards 25 years ago and may not even know what PCR is has a license until he meets the grave (and beyond).

What gives the ABP this power? WE DO!

If a noticeable number of recently trained pathologists rose up against this madness, it could be a game changer against this money grabbing, unfair, over-regulating tyranny!

You get a percentage of people who say that BC is no longer relevant, the health care industry takes notice, and complies in order to keep the peace, and sooner the rest of the pathologists jump on board as the board loses its relevance.

Otherwise, it will only get worse.

Movements need to happen in medicine similarly across the board to deal with the things that are being shoved down our throats.

 

[lipomas]

But if you disagree with the need for recertification every ten years (not sure if you do or not) then why begrudge those who are able to get away with not recertifying?

I suspect board certification will always be relevant, for better or worse.

 

[smellycat]

Got my certificate and at the bottom right corner is says "License valide until ......" or whatever the ____ it says

Remember that the guy sitting in his office making $$$ who took his boards 25 years ago and may not even know what PCR is has a license until he meets the grave (and beyond).

What gives the ABP this power? WE DO!

If a noticeable number of recently trained pathologists rose up against this madness, it could be a game changer against this money grabbing, unfair, over-regulating tyranny!

You get a percentage of people who say that BC is no longer relevant, the health care industry takes notice, and complies in order to keep the peace, and sooner the rest of the pathologists jump on board as the board loses its relevance.

Otherwise, it will only get worse.

Movements need to happen in medicine similarly across the board to deal with the things that are being shoved down our throats.

What annoys the crap out of me is that the dates are in some silly font. Makes the whole thing look unofficial. My wife's board certificate (non-path) is bigger and looks a lot more tasteful.

 

[Thrombus]

But if you disagree with the need for recertification every ten years (not sure if you do or not) then why begrudge those who are able to get away with not recertifying?

I suspect board certification will always be relevant, for better or worse.

I begrudge them because they have done NOTHING ABOUT IT to fight back against this tyranny. If they want a rule, then let it apply to them as well.

As the second poster said, my certificate looks beyond tacky and frankly it is insulting.

 

[pathstudent]

I begrudge them because they have done NOTHING ABOUT IT to fight back against this tyranny. If they want a rule, then let it apply to them as well.

As the second poster said, my certificate looks beyond tacky and frankly it is insulting.

Take a chill pill. Path was just getting in line with other specialties that have a ten year limit, which is most of them. You can't go back and change the rules on those that have already passed. The ABP announced this was going to take place and announced the date. We just got unlucky for being after the cut-off.

But you could try and start a competeing board. Like the AFL did with the NFL or ABA with the NBA. You could start the National Board of Pathology (NPB) You could try to draw path superstars into your board by paying them huge money. Most of them wont take it at first and will stick with tradition. But eventually you will get a Joe Namath or George Gervin or Dr. J. who will draw so much attention to the NBP and eventually they will have to merge with you. Or you could out down like the USFL.

 

[sohsie]

Take a chill pill. Path was just getting in line with other specialties that have a ten year limit, which is most of them. You can't go back and change the rules on those that have already passed. The ABP announced this was going to take place and announced the date. We just got unlucky for being after the cut-off.

I can't believe Im typing this, but yes, pathstudent is right. Almost every specialty has a 10 year recertification requirement, and path was one of the last to join in. The fact that the older board certified pathologists are grandfathered in is absolutely the right thing to do, and it is what other specialties did when they started making recertification requirements.

If you want a rebellion, wait five years until the 2006 grads start taking the re-certification exam. If it is a ridiculous board style exam and a ton of people fail, then you will see a rebellion.

 

[Patho2009]

The ABP implemented the rules of other medical spcielties for 10-yr re-certification requirement. The difference is that it is hard to do it in pathology as it is a very broad and ever changing field.

I am also very concerned about the re-certification exam difficulty.

Am I going to read blood bank again? I hardly read it just to pass the CP and become AP/CP certified. Will I be able to pass the CP again ten years from now! I am sure that everything I was trained in and studied for my primary exam will change a lot..........

The funniest thing is that whenever I meet one of those old guys..they say"Thanks God! I don't have to do it again"..

 

[Patho2009]

I am also curious to know if other MOC parts are also required in other medical specialties.

Overwhelming practicing pathologists with all this documentation every two years does not sound right.

 

[Thrombus]

I am also curious to know if other MOC parts are also required in other medical specialties.

Overwhelming practicing pathologists with all this documentation every two years does not sound right.

Exactly!

Pathology is so broad and in general most people practice quite narrowly compared with other practices. Even the generalists usually maintain proficiency in 1 perhaps 2 clinical specialties.

MOC is a pain in the butt that does nothing but increase time and cost money which 1. make medicine more expensive with increased overhead and 2. reduce patient access. These 2 things are much more critical in this day and age than requiring us to jump through hoops that have next to zero practical value.

 

[Gyric]

ABP grandfathered them in for legal reasons.

A voluntary recertification option exists for pre2006 certificates, if they recertify, then their new certificates are time limited. Why in the world would they want to do that? ABP thinks insurance will require recertification in the near future. If having a time limited certificate is linked to reimbursement then everyone will have to play by the same rules, and many old timers will just retire ... finally.

The real issue is that being board certified in no way reflects competence to care for patients. We need an oral exam component administered by practicing general surgical pathologists (not people who once ran a chemistry lab), a 50% pass rate in that setting would not hurt the profession.

 

[gungho]

If the ABP is really interested in maintaining competence and ensuring education of its certified members, why not tie re-certification testing to CME? Every year or two one could be tested according to CME one has taken during the time period using an online format. Sure, it wouldn't be closed book, but even if you have to look up answers, isn't that educational? Good grief, if one is able to navigate residency and pass the blasted exam for initial certification, what is there left to prove except continued competence and surely there is a better method to accomplish that than an every ten-year gripping over a semi-comprehensive exam.
I still maintain my Fam Med board cert and we have to complete a SAM or two every year which involves answering online questions. It can be a little Mickey Mouse at times, but I come away from those sessions with added knowledge and probably a little better physician. We still have to take an exam every 7-10 years, but I question the validity of that as well, though attempts are made to make it semi-focused as the ABP claims it will do.
Just a thought.

 

[path24]

I just think it is funny how the recertification exam is going to be different from the original board exam. Shouldn't the original board exam be practical to the actual practice of pathology. If not what is the point of a board exam to begin with? (just another test/certification/cme process for an organization to take (dare I say steal) some money out of students/residents/attendings wallets?)

I agree with gungho on the CME style approach.

 

[2121115]

There are rumors that those who are "grandfathered in" are going to have to maintain certification as well. Many hospitals are tying hospital privileges to MOC. So, in certain markets, if those "grandfathered" pathologists want to maintain hospital privileges they will have to participate. For example, all the attendings at my program have to participate.

 

[Entgegen]

There are rumors that those who are "grandfathered in" are going to have to maintain certification as well. Many hospitals are tying hospital privileges to MOC. So, in certain markets, if those "grandfathered" pathologists want to maintain hospital privileges they will have to participate. For example, all the attendings at my program have to participate.

Maybe this will force stubborn old pathologists to retire, freeing up jobs.

Now what would be even better is if the old guys weren't grandfathered in, then took and subsequently failed the recertification exam forcing them all to retire, thus reigning in the much-anticipated mass retirement of old pathologists.

 

[dermpathdoc]

Sorry Kiddo it is NOT the ABP mandating this step but the the state medical boards....ie FSMBE they ar ethe one's who are telling the certifying Boards like the ABP, AOA , etc that they want newly certified docs to prove they are up to speed on thier education every 10 years.
The ABP is actually way behind the game...many other specialty med boards have been doing this for 10 years or more...
So don't be a little spoiled brat.
Be aware that some states, hospitla med staffs and insurance companies are already asking "have you been recertified recently?" amd if not denying med staff privileges or licenses.
I know that even those who do not have time limited certs will feel the pain soon

Got my certificate and at the bottom right corner is says "License valide until ......" or whatever the ____ it says

Remember that the guy sitting in his office making $$$ who took his boards 25 years ago and may not even know what PCR is has a license until he meets the grave (and beyond).

What gives the ABP this power? WE DO!

If a noticeable number of recently trained pathologists rose up against this madness, it could be a game changer against this money grabbing, unfair, over-regulating tyranny!

You get a percentage of people who say that BC is no longer relevant, the health care industry takes notice, and complies in order to keep the peace, and sooner the rest of the pathologists jump on board as the board loses its relevance.

Otherwise, it will only get worse.

Movements need to happen in medicine similarly across the board to deal with the things that are being shoved down our throats.

 

[HbyHA]

There are rumors that those who are "grandfathered in" are going to have to maintain certification as well. Many hospitals are tying hospital privileges to MOC. So, in certain markets, if those "grandfathered" pathologists want to maintain hospital privileges they will have to participate. For example, all the attendings at my program have to participate.

i heard this as well at a staff meeting, so the source is valid. sucks!

 

[exPCM]

How ridiculous is it that Radiologists, FPs, IMs, etc. can do recertification in nearby test centers all over the nation while the ABP is insisting everyone go to Tampa at this point to recert.
http://pearsonvue.com/abr/
http://www.prometric.com/ABFM/default.htm
http://www.pearsonvue.com/abim/
The ASCP is able to put together a nationwide RISE exam that is web-based. Why is the ABP incapable of doing something similar for the recert?
I agree with the need to consider organizing. What about a grass roots petition drive among pathologists to change how this is being implemented?
This site makes it easy to establish an online petition.
http://www.petitiononline.com/petition.html

 

[tardieu]

The fact of recertification is fair enough. And those that say the ABP is playing catch up with other spec boards are correct.

 

[docbiohazard]

Also, if you're AP/CP boarded and strictly practicing AP or CP, you'll be allowed to let the other portion of your board "expire" essentially when it comes time for MOC if you don't think you can pass / don't care to... this came up when I was contemplating the switch from AP/CP to CP only...

Honestly, it seems to me that the AP/CP dual board is kind of out of step with how people want to practice - most of the AP/CP residents and faculty I've met who are doing surgpath / cyto really just want to sign out surg path / cyto. People doing CP (either CP only or AP/CP boarded) really want to focus on CP and don't care to sign out surgicals. The complexity on both sides of the field (AP and CP) is rapidly increasing, as well - wouldn't it be better to let trainees focus a little more?

If the AP/CP dual cert was eliminated (I know, I'm talking wild stuff here), then it seems like people could board AP or CP, and be better trained in 4 years to do what it is they want to do, and not spend time learning stuff they hate just so they can secure a private practice job. I also think it would create some jobs... but of course, someone has to pay for those jobs, etc...

I know this is a radical concept, but I wanted to throw it out there.

DBH

 

[2121115]

Either that or we could eliminate AP/CP altogether and just have one residency "Diagnostic Pathology". It baffles me that in pathology we spend 4 years in training and of that 4 years we spend so little time training to do what 90% of us are going to do for a living (surgpath).