Is it true that you might not to get into the speciality you want if you dont do well on the step 1?

[slopes23]

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Actually it doesn't contradict anything and experience indicates very little in this case, plus it takes very little time and thought to see that this process is very analogous to every depersonalized standardized test system such as those run by non-profit$ such as collegeboard. I know that people do best when theyre actually exposed and allowed to work and then tested on relevant material (ex: going through a residency and then being tested on the material you learned which was directly relevant.). Tests such as the step1 and mcat are quick ways of evaluating people in large numbers, but are really artificial glass ceilings. There's nothing say that someone who doesn't get a score in "x" range isn't a good candidate for a given speciality and i'll tell you the same thing a few years from now.

If you put a large number of those people who dont qualify for a given range for a few points in the residencies they wanted they'd still end up doing damn fine in the speciality they wanted. It's an artificial dichotomy.

Where I believe you are going wrong is that it's all relevant. It's just some of it is more or less relevant to your specific field. As a dermatologist, it's important to have a solid foundation of knowledge of a broad range of systems that aren't directly related with the skin (i.e. your specialty) this is because it is your responsibility to know how things are interacting in the background, and how your treatment plan will effect those things (making it worse or better). More over, when you take Step 1 you still don't really know what you want to be. You may have an idea, but you still haven't gone through rotations so you don't know what you will truly be interested in. Meaning at this point, everything is even more relevant. At the end of the day, residencies see every single system as important and relevant and expect students to take the following approach. Scoring high on my Step 1 gives me the flexibility and increased likelihood that I match into my desired specialty. Step 1 tests everything, therefore, everything is relevant in order to score high.

Also, realize that the amount of material in Step 1 is also similar to the amount of new material you will be exposed to during residency and will be expected to master. There was an AMA for a derm resident a bit ago, and I remember him saying how starting his intern year was like starting medical school all over again because he had the same or more things to remember and learn about then when he did in MS1 and MS2, so the Step 1 also judges your ability to learn a lot of material over a short period of time, which I am sure I do not need to explain why this would be desirable.

Finally, I am sure there are people who don't make specialties because of their scores, and would have been good/great doctors in that specialty. Unfortunately there is no way to know exactly which people those are. When dealing in such a large group of people, you must weigh the needs of the many, over the needs of the few, and rely on statistical indicators of success. Like any statistical tool, will there be error, yes over a large amount of people, it's inherent. But this does not make the system flawed. Conceding that the system is flawed indicates that you there currently exists a better way to approach the issue, and unfortunately, there isn't. Also realize that for this reason, it is beneficial to continuously select those who are good test takers because your final exam (your board certification) will be a standardized exam, and will be one you will have to repeatedly pass every 10 years of your career.

 

[sourdoughllama]

But this does not make the system flawed. Conceding that the system is flawed indicates that you there exists a better way to approach the issue, and unfortunately, there isn't.

Just talking about this sentence, not the rest of your post. Nothing is not-flawed. Everything can be improved

 

[masaraksh]

Just talking about this sentence, not the rest of your post. Nothing is not-flawed. Everything can be improved

<3 your avatar!

 

[slopes23]

Just talking about this sentence, not the rest of your post. Nothing is not-flawed. Everything can be improved

Fair enough.

 

[sourdoughllama]

<3 your avatar!

Thanks! me too hahaha I just couldn't resist

 

[ZeaL6]

"I'm just not good at high schools tests man, why can't I go to Harvard as a dropout? I know I could succeed!"

On a more serious note, it's a tough and annoying process. Just do everything you can in your power to do well in things outside of Step 1 and study hard for Step 1 and do your best. If you think you're practically good in the clinic your letter writers will rave about you and if you have research that goes well and good grades you should be great even with relatively average scores.

 

[masaraksh]

Did OP actually say what specialty he/she wants?

 

[baconshrimps]

lmao, entitlement?! to what? If you're paying a small fortune to get where you want and go through the process getting what you want is the expected outcome, otherwise it's little more than just a waste.

1. For most, it is not a "small fortune". It is a very expensive process, and the reality of it is most go into the application realizing that they may not get accepted. Even with top stats, it is not a guarantee. I have outdone people with a 40/3.8+ with markedly lower numbers. I probably dropped $7000 on applications and interviews, expecting nothing more than a waitlist at best. I feel blessed to have my acceptances, but I was not counting on it. For you to think that just because you are paying money to apply to these schools that this should automatically grant you the outcome of being accepted, it infact makes you entitled. Grow up.

love how you think not going through entire process suddenly invalidates my opinion. med schools do know what they're doing, but that doesn't stop it from being a ****** flawed system.

Having not gone through the process does infact invalidate your opinion. In the years leading up to the application itself, did I know what I was doing? Or was I making very educated guesses as to what might be the right things to do while preparing my application? I say the latter. Now, having gone through the process, I can say, definitively, what I did correctly and what I didn't do correctly. Thus, having not gone through the process invalidates any opinions you have. Get back to us when you are mid-cycle, because for now this just comes off as the rantings of an insecure (and likely biased) pre-med student. As someone who isn't at the very least a first year medical student, you don't have the luxury of saying "the medical schools know what they are doing/don't know what they are doing" or "the system is flawed".

 

[baconshrimps]

Thanks! me too hahaha I just couldn't resist

Please make your signature "aint nobody got time for dat"?

 

[sourdoughllama]

.

 

[terp720]

1. For most, it is not a "small fortune". It is a very expensive process, and the reality of it is most go into the application realizing that they may not get accepted. Even with top stats, it is not a guarantee. I have outdone people with a 40/3.8+ with markedly lower numbers. I probably dropped $7000 on applications and interviews, expecting nothing more than a waitlist at best. I feel blessed to have my acceptances, but I was not counting on it. For you to think that just because you are paying money to apply to these schools that this should automatically grant you the outcome of being accepted, it infact makes you entitled. Grow up..

Although your post focuses on the application process, since OPs original point was about step 1 and getting into your desired speciality, I took this "small fortune" comment to be more about paying for med school and doing all that work and then not matching into a specialty, rather than paying for applications and not getting into med school. Although I don't agree with OP, the cost of medical school is a lot different than the cost of applications.

 

[V5RED]

Something is sticking out to me like a sore thumb with OP'S argument. OP is taking it as a premise that anyone could do well in any residency given enough effort. This is something OP has no credible reason to believe. We are not all equal and some people are naturally more gifted than others. Using standardized tests to differentiate these people ensures that the best residencies go to the best doctors.

I actually love the way the usmle is set up because it prevents people from faking it like you can to get into college and medical school. With the sat you can retake over and over and only count your best sections and basically submit it as if you only took it once and got a great score. With the MCAT you can retake it over and over until you like your score. With both college and medical school weird ecs can make or break your application instead of putting the biggest emphasis on your aptitude as a student. With the usmle there is finally nowhere to hide or fake it. You either can or cant.

 

[baconshrimps]

Although your post focuses on the application process, since OPs original point was about step 1 and getting into your desired speciality, I took this "small fortune" comment to be more about paying for med school and doing all that work and then not matching into a specialty, rather than paying for applications and not getting into med school. Although I don't agree with OP, the cost of medical school is a lot different than the cost of applications.

Whoops.
Thanks for pointing that out. Guess I'm the jerk here.

 

[gettheleadout]

there are a diversity of people with different skills, some people dont excel at standardized tests, to just cater to those who can is absurd. not everyone is entitled to harvard obviously, but going to medical school if they are qualified and having a say over their speciality choice instead of being forced into a career based off of test scores seems pretty reasonable. you have a point though, it still seems more like a glass ceiling time thing tho.

Yes, some people are more intelligent/knowledgeable/able to perform under pressure/etc. than others. Others try to make excuses about their shortcomings. cough

 

[mrh125]

Yes, some people are more intelligent/knowledgeable/able to perform under pressure/etc. than others. Others try to make excuses about their shortcomings. cough

no excuses required. it's another standardized test that selects a certain kind of people who do well on tests, which has very little do with intelligence or ability to perform well in medicine in reality. It also divides people into haves and have nots (who can spend money for specialized test material needed to do well and who can't). Becoming a doctor in this day and age would seem to have more to do with the fact you have a certain affluent soci0-economic background than anything and these standardized tests only further this conception. There's another glass-ceiling.

Something is sticking out to me like a sore thumb with OP'S argument. OP is taking it as a premise that anyone could do well in any residency given enough effort. This is something OP has no credible reason to believe. We are not all equal and some people are naturally more gifted than others. Using standardized tests to differentiate these people ensures that the best residencies go to the best doctors.

I actually love the way the usmle is set up because it prevents people from faking it like you can to get into college and medical school. With the sat you can retake over and over and only count your best sections and basically submit it as if you only took it once and got a great score. With the MCAT you can retake it over and over until you like your score. With both college and medical school weird ecs can make or break your application instead of putting the biggest emphasis on your aptitude as a student. With the usmle there is finally nowhere to hide or fake it. You either can or cant.

how is that "faking it?" What exactly does the uslme represent that makes it such a great assessor of whether or not someone should be placed in a given residency program or anything besides being able to do well on standardized and spend money to obtain the required succeed? Being only able to take it once can give any number of reasons why it isn't a reliable indicator. The MCAT also claims to be interested in creating "better doctors" by their new AAMCs format and what do they do? Tack on some requirements that may give you some background knowledge, and make the exam 6 hours long. Being a good doctor or right for a speciality should be tested on based off of direct knowledge of the speciality they're interested in, actual things they're required to know, classes you've taken which should at least be given equal weight to standardized tests and variables that actually matter. I guarantee more knowledge is acquired during residency, evaluating various specialities, and through experiencing how many medicine actually works in reality, relative to any of this other stuff, and that should be taken into account.

 

[QuantumJ]

In short yes it is very possible (and I would bet happens a lot every year) poor performance in Step 1 may prevent you from matching into some specialties. You have some leeway if you have research/honors/AOA/ etc and a lowER Step 1 but after a certain low point it isn't realistic to match (for some specialties).

 

[masaraksh]

no excuses required. it's another standardized test that selects a certain kind of people who do well on tests, which has very little do with intelligence or ability to perform well in medicine in reality. It also divides people into haves and have nots (who can spend money for specialized test material needed to do well and who can't). Becoming a doctor in this day and age would seem to have more to do with the fact you have a certain affluent soci0-economic background than anything and these standardized tests only further this conception. There's another glass-ceiling.

Stop the madness. It doesn't divide people into haves vs. have-nots. Same with the MCAT. I, and many others, self-study from maybe ~$200 of MCAT books & materials ( at that can be reduced to $0 if you pirate them online or can borrow from friends). I got a 37 which is ok and I can say for certain that if my parents were billionaires and threw money at me I still would likely not have done better.

You don't need the prep courses to succeed at MCAT. It is just hard work. Same with USMLE. I have not taken it, but I highly doubt it favors the wealthy. In fact, USMLE sounds like a VERY even playing field. All the takers are in med school (which is intense everywhere) and in pretty much the same boat.

 

[masaraksh]

I'm sorry if this seems so 'unfair' but welcome to the cruelties and challenges you may face in the 'real world'.

By the way, medicine is still probably one of the most 'fair' career paths there is. At least you know that if you work hard, ace your rotations, ace your Step 1, do some research, then you have a really high chance to match whereever you want. Other fields, say business or finance or corporate 'ladders', you can work 20hr/day, show positive results, and still be passed over for promotions/advancements simple because someone doesn't like you as much. fair?

 

[mcloaf]

no excuses required. it's another standardized test that selects a certain kind of people who do well on tests, which has very little do with intelligence or ability to perform well in medicine in reality.

Being a good doctor or right for a speciality should be tested on based off of direct knowledge of the speciality they're interested in, actual things they're required to know, classes you've taken which should at least be given equal weight to standardized tests and variables that actually matter. I guarantee more knowledge is acquired during residency, evaluating various specialities, and through experiencing how many medicine actually works in reality, relative to any of this other stuff, and that should be taken into account.

I look forward to you explaining how shifting the content of the testing to something specialty-specific will suddenly leapfrog you ahead of the people who score better on Step 1...

Realistically the same people who study harder/smarter now for Step 1 would do the same for whatever convoluted testing process you're envisioning.

 

[V5RED]

no excuses required. it's another standardized test that selects a certain kind of people who do well on tests, which has very little do with intelligence or ability to perform well in medicine in reality. It also divides people into haves and have nots (who can spend money for specialized test material needed to do well and who can't). Becoming a doctor in this day and age would seem to have more to do with the fact you have a certain affluent soci0-economic background than anything and these standardized tests only further this conception. There's another glass-ceiling.




how is that "faking it?" What exactly does the uslme represent that makes it such a great assessor of whether or not someone should be placed in a given residency program or anything besides being able to do well on standardized and spend money to obtain the required succeed? Being only able to take it once can give any number of reasons why it isn't a reliable indicator. The MCAT also claims to be interested in creating "better doctors" by their new AAMCs format and what do they do? Tack on some requirements that may give you some background knowledge, and make the exam 6 hours long. Being a good doctor or right for a speciality should be tested on based off of direct knowledge of the speciality they're interested in, actual things they're required to know, classes you've taken which should at least be given equal weight to standardized tests and variables that actually matter. I guarantee more knowledge is acquired during residency, evaluating various specialities, and through experiencing how many medicine actually works in reality, relative to any of this other stuff, and that should be taken into account.

As to the money, you don't need to be rich to afford high quality test prep materials. You can find used materials right here on SDN or on Ebay, and even if you went all out and bought one of those $2000 prep courses, you could cover that if you got a part time job at McDonalds(for the MCAT) or took out a slightly larger loan in med school(for the USMLE). It isn't like you need to be a millionaire to afford to prep for the exams.

You ARE NOT QUALIFIED to make the claim that the MCAT and USMLE are poor indicators of who will be a good doctor, so any complaints about them only testing your ability to take tests are meaningless coming from you.

As has already been mentioned, your scores in classes are not standardized, so there is no way to know if the top student at school X is better than an average student at school Y, so using those as a primary indicator is unfair to students in very competitive schools. It is useful to know that a student worked hard and impressed his teachers, so that should be taken into account, and it is. It just isn't as important as the one thing that is uniform across all schools because you cannot easily compare students based on their performances at different schools.

Of course you learn more in residency and as you work. If you had to already know everything a resident knows to take the USMLE, medical school would be 10 years long so you could take this uber-long test that covers every single aspect of every single specialty so you can know for sure if the student will be a great resident after essentially already completing a residency.

It may be a tough pill to swallow, but standardized tests are the most fair way to compare students from different schools. For many, standardized tests are a blow to an overinflated ego because you are shown very clearly where you stand relative to other people.

Bear in mind, this is not all about you. The most competitive residencies deserve the best students. The USMLE, among other factors, lets them know who the best students are so they can make the best decision.

 

[gettheleadout]

I got a 37 which is ok

lol SDN gets to us all doesn't it?

 

[masaraksh]

lol SDN gets to us all doesn't it?

Honestly, I'm not happy with unbalance in my 15-14-8 and regret listening to a few friends/advisor and not retaking. But this thread is not about that or me.

I simply wanted to say that I don't think that very high SES helps when it comes to MCAT. I wanted to show that I scored semi-competitively with a low-budget for study materials. I also think that this is even more true for USMLE, since medical students from all backgrounds are in much more of the 'same boat' than college students of different affluence.

 

[mvenus929]

then how do you define realistic expectations? if you put in the time and effort and do have the capabilities, why should you get anything less than you deserve? there should be better ways of evaluating people than scores on standardized exams.

There's a reason the whole of the residency application process is not your step 1 score. If you want to do derm, though, the expectant is that you do well on step 1. If you put in the time and effort, and have the capability of doing well on step 1, then you have little to worry about from that front. That's not to say you automatically get a position... There may be a lot of people a whole lot more qualified than you.

 

[Pacna]

I actually agree with the OP. It sucks that even if you do everything right you still might not get into a specialty you want. Then again, I didn't get in at all last year. Life's not fair, you know?

 

[Life Sucks]

Like mom said, if it is easy, it wouldn't be worth it. Sorry, but everything in life requires some type of struggle

 

[Pacna]

Like mom said, if it is easy, it wouldn't be worth it. Sorry, but everything in life requires some type of struggle

I don't think OP is opposed to struggle. I think he/she takes umbrage with the idea that you can be a candidate with everything a program could want and still not get a spot, which I think is reasonable to be worried about.

 

[QuantumJ]

I don't think OP is opposed to struggle. I think he/she takes umbrage with the idea that you can be a candidate with everything a program could want and still not get a spot, which I think is reasonable to be worried about.

Agreed and something I'm personally worried about a lot too.

 

[slopes23]

I don't think OP is opposed to struggle. I think he/she takes umbrage with the idea that you can be a candidate with everything a program could want and still not get a spot, which I think is reasonable to be worried about.

Like mom always also said, life is not always fair. Control that which you can, and do not worry about that which you cannot.

 

[Pacna]

Agreed and something I'm personally worried about a lot too.

QuantumJ was last seen:
Viewing thread Opinion Wanted: What are my chances in matching into Dermatology?, 1 minute ago

Loooool. Too good.

Like mom always also said, life is not always fair. Control that which you can, and do not worry about that which you cannot.

Are you kidding? Don't worry about getting the career of your choice after 8 years of working towards it? There's laid back and then there's callous. There's a reason tears are shed every match day.

 

[Ismet]

Are you kidding? Don't worry about getting the career of your choice after 8 years of working towards it? There's laid back and then there's callous. There's a reason tears are shed every match day.

Tears of happiness.

You find out on the Monday before Match Day if you matched or didn't match. I guess you could cry if you didn't get your top choice program, but that would be rather silly.

 

[slopes23]

QuantumJ was last seen:
Viewing thread Opinion Wanted: What are my chances in matching into Dermatology?, 1 minute ago

Loooool. Too good.



Are you kidding? Don't worry about getting the career of your choice after 8 years of working towards it? There's laid back and then there's callous. There's a reason tears are shed every match day.

Whatever works for you. I have found in my life that if I worry about the things that are in my control, and not those that aren't I suffer from less stress, which lets me excel that much more. If you want to bite your nails and cry about it then go ahead, but when you are done, everything remains the same. If you are piloting a plane and something goes wrong, do you freak out and start crying right there while screaming we are going down? Or do you stay calm, rely on your training, and trust that by doing everything that is in your control to remedy the situation you will be alright. Screaming and crying never helped anyone get out of a crisis. At the end of the day you are piloting your own life, and you control where it goes, no one can control when you are going to have engine problems during your "flight" the only thing you can do is recognize that sooner or later you will have them, and what makes the difference is how you react.

 

[slopes23]

Tears of happiness.

You find out on the Monday before Match Day if you matched or didn't match. I guess you could cry if you didn't get your top choice program, but that would be rather silly.

Interesting, didn't know this. Why don't they call that Monday match day then?

 

[Ismet]

Interesting, didn't know this. Why don't they call that Monday match day then?

Because you don't know where you matched. You just know that you did or didn't. If you didn't match, there's a process called SOAP that lets you apply for unmatched positions.

 

[gyngyn]

Interesting, didn't know this. Why don't they call that Monday match day then?

We call it "unmatch day."

 

[masaraksh]

Lets think of other things that arn't fair:

-modeling
-auditions (for movies, shows, plays, ... heck even commercials are cutthroat)
-business promotions
- sales
-marketing & ad agencies competing for contracts
-politics
-academia (just cuz you work hard and teach well may not mean you deserve tenure)
....

So, there.

 

[phunky]

lmao, entitlement?! to what? If you're paying a small fortune to get where you want and go through the process getting what you want is the expected outcome, otherwise it's little more than just a waste.

Haha. I like how you try to claim you're not entitled my making an extremely entitled statement. "I'm paying them money, so I'm entitled to whatever I want."

The fact of the matter is that medical training doesn't exist so you can "fulfill your dreams." It exists to create doctors and serve the patients they care for. If more people want to go into a field than there are spots in that field, why shouldn't they take the best, as defined by their standards?

 

[Pacna]

Tears of happiness.

You find out on the Monday before Match Day if you matched or didn't match. I guess you could cry if you didn't get your top choice program, but that would be rather silly.

Working with a doc looking over my shoulder who is shaking her head at this.

 

[terp720]

I actually agree with the OP. It sucks that even if you do everything right you still might not get into a specialty you want. Then again, I didn't get in at all last year. Life's not fair, you know?

I agree it sucks. I don't think many (if any) people here would say it's awesome. But it is what it is, so just have to accept that's how things are currently, go in with that knowledge, and adjust accordingly.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

Tears of happiness.

You find out on the Monday before Match Day if you matched or didn't match. I guess you could cry if you didn't get your top choice program, but that would be rather silly.

Silly? Not really. Folks have lots of reasons that are quite legitimate for their ROL being in the order it is. It's also okay to be upset and even to cry about not being selected by one's top n programs where n = 1-50. Not everyone is matching derm or plastics where "any" match is supposed to evince shouts of joy and celebration.

I hope that when your class matches (if it hasn't already), that you are a bit more compassionate in dealing with classmates who are upset about where they matched than this post suggests. I try to be understanding when students come talk to me after the match and they've not matched at the pedi program they desired the most.

 

[slopes23]

Silly? Not really. Folks have lots of reasons that are quite legitimate for their ROL being in the order it is. It's also okay to be upset and even to cry about not being selected by one's top n programs where n = 1-50. Not everyone is matching derm or plastics where "any" match is supposed to evince shouts of joy and celebration.

I hope that when your class matches (if it hasn't already), that you are a bit more compassionate in dealing with classmates who are upset about where they matched than this post suggests. I try to be understanding when students come talk to me after the match and they've not matched at the pedi program they desired the most.

The trial of Mod v Mod will now come to order. Please commence with your opening statements.

 

[baconshrimps]

QuantumJ was last seen:
Viewing thread Opinion Wanted: What are my chances in matching into Dermatology?, 1 minute ago

Loooool. Too good.



Are you kidding? Don't worry about getting the career of your choice after 8 years of working towards it? There's laid back and then there's callous. There's a reason tears are shed every match day.

Those are....tears of...joy...right?

 

[Amazingmuzmo]

Lmao did mrh125 get probationary from this thread?

 

[BlueLabel]

blah blah blah blah blah I want to be notified of my match into plastic surgery by singing telegram because I'm special and I deserve it even though I can't perform when it counts blah blah blah

The only thing you're entitled to by paying for medical school is the chance to graduate with a medical degree if you work enough to graduate. Nobody cares if you think you'd make a great plastic surgeon; you have to work for it and out compete every body else who wants that job. Welcome to the real world.

 

[username456789]

Where I believe you are going wrong is that it's all relevant. It's just some of it is more or less relevant to your specific field. As a dermatologist, it's important to have a solid foundation of knowledge of a broad range of systems that aren't directly related with the skin (i.e. your specialty) this is because it is your responsibility to know how things are interacting in the background, and how your treatment plan will effect those things (making it worse or better). More over, when you take Step 1 you still don't really know what you want to be. You may have an idea, but you still haven't gone through rotations so you don't know what you will truly be interested in. Meaning at this point, everything is even more relevant. At the end of the day, residencies see every single system as important and relevant and expect students to take the following approach. Scoring high on my Step 1 gives me the flexibility and increased likelihood that I match into my desired specialty. Step 1 tests everything, therefore, everything is relevant in order to score high.

Also, realize that the amount of material in Step 1 is also similar to the amount of new material you will be exposed to during residency and will be expected to master. There was an AMA for a derm resident a bit ago, and I remember him saying how starting his intern year was like starting medical school all over again because he had the same or more things to remember and learn about then when he did in MS1 and MS2, so the Step 1 also judges your ability to learn a lot of material over a short period of time, which I am sure I do not need to explain why this would be desirable.

Finally, I am sure there are people who don't make specialties because of their scores, and would have been good/great doctors in that specialty. Unfortunately there is no way to know exactly which people those are. When dealing in such a large group of people, you must weigh the needs of the many, over the needs of the few, and rely on statistical indicators of success. Like any statistical tool, will there be error, yes over a large amount of people, it's inherent. But this does not make the system flawed. Conceding that the system is flawed indicates that you there currently exists a better way to approach the issue, and unfortunately, there isn't. Also realize that for this reason, it is beneficial to continuously select those who are good test takers because your final exam (your board certification) will be a standardized exam, and will be one you will have to repeatedly pass every 10 years of your career.

We (Derm residents) have arguably the most academic-oriented residency there is. The reason we "only" spend 45-50 hours/week in the hospital/clinic is because we spend another 45-50 hours/week studying. The amount of absurd basic science type stuff (molecular bio/genetics/biochemistry) involved in Derm would blow you away. Then there are the literally hundreds upon hundreds of bizarre, esoteric syndromes for which we must memorize gene mutations, the normal and abnormal functions for these gene products, and every single finding (skin and non skin, and most of them are non-skin) associated. And that's only about 3-5% of what we need to learn. In addition, we need to master dermatopathology and be able to recognize every single possible skin condition not just based on clinical picture/physical exam, but based solely on a microscope slide as well. Then there are the biochemical pathways involved in cornification, immunology, and many many many other physiologic pathways and systems.

Studying for our Derm boards makes studying for Step I seem like a picnic.

Earlier this week one of the rotating medical students (going into a field other than Derm) was present for one of our board review lectures/sessions. Afterwards he straight up said "**** THIS **** man, I had no clue you had to know any of that stuff. No wonder Derm doesn't accept mediocre students like me."

It made me chuckle, but there was definitely some truth to it.

 

[mrh125]

Lmao did mrh125 get probationary from this thread?

yea, i did

lol ban me because i disagree with you? this isn't some fascist autocracy.

 

[BlueLabel]

We (Derm residents) have arguably the most academic-oriented residency there is. The reason we "only" spend 45-50 hours/week in the hospital/clinic is because we spend another 45-50 hours/week studying. The amount of absurd basic science type stuff (molecular bio/genetics/biochemistry) involved in Derm would blow you away. Then there are the literally hundreds upon hundreds of bizarre, esoteric syndromes for which we must memorize gene mutations, the normal and abnormal functions for these gene products, and every single finding (skin and non skin, and most of them are non-skin) associated. And that's only about 3-5% of what we need to learn. In addition, we need to master dermatopathology and be able to recognize every single possible skin condition not just based on clinical picture/physical exam, but based solely on a microscope slide as well. Then there are the biochemical pathways involved in cornification, immunology, and many many many other physiologic pathways and systems.

Studying for our Derm boards makes studying for Step I seem like a picnic.

Earlier this week one of the rotating medical students (going into a field other than Derm) was present for one of our board review lectures/sessions. Afterwards he straight up said "**** THIS **** man, I had no clue you had to know any of that stuff. No wonder Derm doesn't accept mediocre students like me."

It made me chuckle, but there was definitely some truth to it.

That's unreal. However, while you're here, can you shed some light on the concept of DermBucks™ for us?



(I hope you're familiar with the Streampaw phenomenon)

 

[slopes23]

We (Derm residents) have arguably the most academic-oriented residency there is. The reason we "only" spend 45-50 hours/week in the hospital/clinic is because we spend another 45-50 hours/week studying. The amount of absurd basic science type stuff (molecular bio/genetics/biochemistry) involved in Derm would blow you away. Then there are the literally hundreds upon hundreds of bizarre, esoteric syndromes for which we must memorize gene mutations, the normal and abnormal functions for these gene products, and every single finding (skin and non skin, and most of them are non-skin) associated. And that's only about 3-5% of what we need to learn. In addition, we need to master dermatopathology and be able to recognize every single possible skin condition not just based on clinical picture/physical exam, but based solely on a microscope slide as well. Then there are the biochemical pathways involved in cornification, immunology, and many many many other physiologic pathways and systems.

Studying for our Derm boards makes studying for Step I seem like a picnic.

Earlier this week one of the rotating medical students (going into a field other than Derm) was present for one of our board review lectures/sessions. Afterwards he straight up said "**** THIS **** man, I had no clue you had to know any of that stuff. No wonder Derm doesn't accept mediocre students like me."

It made me chuckle, but there was definitely some truth to it.

I don't doubt it, a common folly is to think that there is a shortcut to a high paying job. There is variance of course, but I do not believe any of the normally high paying specialties require high board scores and turn out to be an easier specialty. You don't get paid more for nothing, and the specialties typically don't artificially inflate their requirements.

My hat is off to you, without having done a rotation in it, my preliminary assumption would be that I don't think I would enjoy derm.

Anyways, thanks for the shout out to confirm!

 

[RogueUnicorn]

We (Derm residents) have arguably the most academic-oriented residency there is. The reason we "only" spend 45-50 hours/week in the hospital/clinic is because we spend another 45-50 hours/week studying. The amount of absurd basic science type stuff (molecular bio/genetics/biochemistry) involved in Derm would blow you away. Then there are the literally hundreds upon hundreds of bizarre, esoteric syndromes for which we must memorize gene mutations, the normal and abnormal functions for these gene products, and every single finding (skin and non skin, and most of them are non-skin) associated. And that's only about 3-5% of what we need to learn. In addition, we need to master dermatopathology and be able to recognize every single possible skin condition not just based on clinical picture/physical exam, but based solely on a microscope slide as well. Then there are the biochemical pathways involved in cornification, immunology, and many many many other physiologic pathways and systems.

Studying for our Derm boards makes studying for Step I seem like a picnic.

Earlier this week one of the rotating medical students (going into a field other than Derm) was present for one of our board review lectures/sessions. Afterwards he straight up said "**** THIS **** man, I had no clue you had to know any of that stuff. No wonder Derm doesn't accept mediocre students like me."

It made me chuckle, but there was definitely some truth to it.

could you be more full of yourself

 

[username456789]

could you be more full of yourself

Almost certainly, yes.

 

[mrh125]

lots of things can change post-residency or even during residency. difficult stuff becomes way less difficult with more time and experience. of course a guy would say dermatology is difficult as hell given that's the first time he's really been exposed to the material.

People can divide each other based off difficulty of their programs and devise ways of limiting others, but a good portion of those who supposedly aren't cut out for certain specialities could probably make it and do damn well without the quality of care depreciating in any way.