Is it unethical...

[BrightLight]

...not to report suspected welfare abusers?

Many of us have seen those people. They get their meds free because of Mediaid, yet they arrive at the pharmacy in Mercedes, talking on the most trendy phones, wearing designer sunglasses that are expensive even to some pharmacists. There was one that particularly got on my nerve. When we told him that his Protonix was not covered by Medi-Cal, he threw a fit and demanded our corporate phone number so that he could complain about US. Few days later, when my tech finally managed to get his Protonix completely covered by Medi-Cal, he told us that he would to go a gym to relax himself, at the same time chatting with his friend on a bluetooth headphone. Afterward, he drove away in his Mercedes.

People like him are a drain on hour society. I really want to ask the Medicaid department to do an investigation on him, but at the time same am concerned about HIPPA violation? Would it be unethical to let these get away with leeching our already meager state resources just because their privacy could be considered violated?

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[rxlea]

We are not the police.

 

[rxlea]

Maybe it is unethical on a philosophical level, but I am not sure what you can do on a practical level...

 

[BrightLight]

Maybe it is unethical on a philosophical level, but I am not sure what you can do on a practical level...

Let me guess, you from New York City?

 

[lorain]

i learned never to judge any1 without knowing all the facts, and I wont have all the facts in the pharmacy

 

[BrightLight]

i learned never to judge any1 without knowing all the facts, and I wont have all the facts in the pharmacy

Yes, I have considered that. Maybe the guy is really poor. Maybe all his accessories (Mercedz, gym membership, bluetooth phone) are all given to him from friends or aliens or even God. That's why I do not ask whether we should yell out "crimimal!" right in front of his face. Maybe we tip the medical deparment and let them do the investigation. Hey, if he is innocent, he will still retain his medical and mercedes, and designer sunglasses, and gym membership.

 

[rxlea]

No, I am not from New York City. I am not sure where you were trying to go with that. I've worked in pharmacy for a while, though, and as the above poster mentioned, you don't have the whole story. It's not our place to "play police" even if it seems unethical NOT to. We once did a transplant on a non-citizen. The state paid for it... Would it have been right to deny that to a person at that time? Would it be right to deny psych meds to someone because you think they're abusing the system? Gotta think bigger picture here.

EDIT: maybe it's hard to swallow, but as pharmacists, what are we gonna do? How much time would you spend reporting people?

 

[iFarm]

Let me guess, you from New York City?

So where were you going with this?

 

[spacecowgirl]

"Hanging onto resentment is letting someone you despise live rent-free in your head" - Ann Landers

 

[lorain]

Yes, I have considered that. Maybe the guy is really poor. Maybe all his accessories (Mercedz, gym membership, bluetooth phone) are all given to him from friends or aliens or even God. That's why I do not ask whether we should yell out "crimimal!" right in front of his face. Maybe we tip the medical deparment and let them do the investigation. Hey, if he is innocent, he will still retain his medical and mercedes, and designer sunglasses, and gym membership.

how do you know those glasses are real, or not the 20 dollar fake from canal st in NY?

phones are easy to get too if you know the right people in that business (chinatown in NY will do)

(Im a NY guy, so i used those examples, but every city has similar shops)

cars are easy to get also at very low prices too, especially if you know some1 in the 2nd hand auto business (cars at auctions can go real cheap, especially if they have some damage to them)

like i said, i dont know the facts just working in a pharmacy

 

[pharmschooler]

i learned never to judge any1 without knowing all the facts, and I wont have all the facts in the pharmacy

I agree completely.

You don't know their story; it's not your job to decide if they qualify. Maybe they were laid off from a great job and they still have vestiges from their former employment. Maybe they were a gift from a wealthy family member who passed away (I once judged somebody who this happened to. I never will again; I felt terrible about making such an assumption.).

The state does the qualifications for things like Medicare through people like social workers. Not you. It's not your job. If he gave you hard facts and told you he had a job where he made good money, maybe then you should report it, but this is not that situation.

 

[lorain]

you can also get replica cars (like ferraris) for like 5-20k , check the internet

so again we dont have all the facts in the pharmacy

 

[DYSF777]

Maybe he stole the car and cell phone. Clearly you should ask to see the title to his car.

 

[owlegrad]

Just tell him you don't submit Medi-Cal claims for people who wear glasses, use cell phones, or drive cars. Problem solved.

 

[confettiflyer]

i was wondering when the next medicaid thread would pop up

quick, call A4M and SHC...and grab a beer

 

[joetrisman]

i was wondering when the next medicaid thread would pop up

quick, call A4M and SHC...and grab a beer

I doubt there will be a show as A4M hasn't been posting lately...

 

[owlegrad]

I doubt there will be a show as A4M hasn't been posting lately...

Or SHC for that matter.

 

[crazybob]

I doubt there will be a show as A4M hasn't been posting lately...

Not posting doesn't always mean 'not reading.' It could be at a time when we least expect it.

You never know how many members read posts and never write anything until they really think it's necessary.

 

[StevePerry]

Maybe it is unethical on a philosophical level, but I am not sure what you can do on a practical level...

How about on a practical level the OP should be thankful that the scumsucking piece of s--- is providing business to his store. Even though they are probably losing money because Medi-Cal sucks balls... wait nevermind...

 

[rxlea]

I bet he had a baggie of cocaine in his pocket that came free when he signed up for benefits

 

[Doctor M]

How about on a practical level the OP should be thankful that the scumsucking piece of s--- is providing business to his store. Even though they are probably losing money because Medi-Cal sucks balls... wait nevermind...

I say fill as many scripts as you can. Welfare and medicaid arent going away anytime soon, so as my father says, which would suit me since i own a business, get as much business as you can and make as much as you can.

 

[Sparda29]

...not to report suspected welfare abusers?

Many of us have seen those people. They get their meds free because of Mediaid, yet they arrive at the pharmacy in Mercedes, talking on the most trendy phones, wearing designer sunglasses that are expensive even to some pharmacists. There was one that particularly got on my nerve. When we told him that his Protonix was not covered by Medi-Cal, he threw a fit and demanded our corporate phone number so that he could complain about US. Few days later, when my tech finally managed to get his Protonix completely covered by Medi-Cal, he told us that he would to go a gym to relax himself, at the same time chatting with his friend on a bluetooth headphone. Afterward, he drove away in his Mercedes.

People like him are a drain on hour society. I really want to ask the Medicaid department to do an investigation on him, but at the time same am concerned about HIPPA violation? Would it be unethical to let these get away with leeching our already meager state resources just because their privacy could be considered violated?

So what? I get Medicaid because my parents insurance doesn't cover me, make less than $9000/year (thus qualifying) not including student loan money and I have an Alienware laptop, a smartphone, designer sunglasses, and I roll around in one of these:

 

[museabuse]

I say fill as many scripts as you can. Welfare and medicaid arent going away anytime soon, so as my father says, which would suit me since i own a business, get as much business as you can and make as much as you can.

Wow! You sound like CVS! Hahaha...

 

[Doctor M]

Wow! You sound like CVS! Hahaha...

Hey, business is business...although unlike CVS, we dont abuse our employees

 

[Sparda29]

Hey, business is business...although unlike CVS, we dont abuse our employees

How's business going? I have a friend who wants to open up a pharmacy with me. He's not a pharmacist though, just an entrepreneur who would be providing finances. He says that it would be a better option when it comes to paying back loans as opposed to working for a hospital or a chain.

 

[Doctor M]

How's business going? I have a friend who wants to open up a pharmacy with me. He's not a pharmacist though, just an entrepreneur who would be providing finances. He says that it would be a better option when it comes to paying back loans as opposed to working for a hospital or a chain.

Business is great! filling over 4000 a month. Do what ever you feel comfortable doing in terms of business.

 

[owlegrad]

Not posting doesn't always mean 'not reading.' It could be at a time when we least expect it.

You never know how many members read posts and never write anything until they really think it's necessary.

Actually you can. Each thread shows number of views vs number of posts. It doesn't distinguish members from guests in number of views, but that is a pretty minor distinction.

 

[crazybob]

Actually you can. Each thread shows number of views vs number of posts. It doesn't distinguish members from guests in number of views, but that is a pretty minor distinction.

You assume each visitor is paying attention very well and didn't fall asleep from boredom

 

[owlegrad]

You assume each visitor is paying attention very well and didn't fall asleep from boredom

I just realized what I said didn't REALLY match what you said anyway.

You cannot tell how many times a member has read through a thread (or a number of threads) without posting, only how many times a thread has been read without being posted in. They are not actually the same thing.

 

[crazybob]

I just realized what I said didn't REALLY match what you said anyway.

You cannot tell how many times a member has read through a thread (or a number of threads) without posting, only how many times a thread has been read without being posted in. They are not actually the same thing.

Yeah. I think it's getting to that point where I'm just sleepy and can't give 100% in my replies.

I almost wrote "can't give 200%" because of a typo

 

[owlegrad]

Yeah. I think it's getting to that point where I'm just sleepy and can't give 100% in my replies.

I almost wrote "can't give 200%" because of a typo

When it comes to pointing out errors of mine, I always expect 200% from you bob.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

i was wondering when the next medicaid thread would pop up

quick, call A4M and SHC...and grab a beer

I doubt there will be a show as A4M hasn't been posting lately...

I've been busy with my newborn Medicaid baby and graduating. Plus I'm taking the NAPLEX on Tuesday.

I read this thread but I just because it's all been said before. It would probably be more entertaining if SHC showed up, but I don't know where she is.

 

[Doctor M]

I've been busy with my newborn Medicaid baby and graduating. Plus I'm taking the NAPLEX on Tuesday.

I read this thread but I just because it's all been said before. It would probably be more entertaining if SHC showed up, but I don't know where she is.

But Im here.

 

[rxlea]

Maybe she is shopping

 

[p-rog]

I feel ya OP, sometimes it's hard not to imagine some of our medicaid patients being like this:

 

[realjoe]

It is not unethical. It is not your fault and you will not do them a favor when you report them. People need to wake up by themselves. They need to get some internal motivation.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

How old is the Mercedes?

A used one isn't that expensive.

I know plenty of people legitimately on welfare that drive cars like BWMs, Audis, and Mercedes. They just have something like 180k miles on them and are 10 years old. They cost the same as a 2 year old Chevy Cobalt or something similar the po' folk be drivin'.

 

[Dr Wario]

How old is the Mercedes?

A used one isn't that expensive.

I know plenty of people legitimately on welfare that drive cars like BWMs, Audis, and Mercedes. They just have something like 180k miles on them and are 10 years old. They cost the same as a 2 year old Chevy Cobalt or something similar the po' folk be drivin'.

And what exactly is wrong with using their legs or a bike for transportation?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

And what exactly is wrong with using their legs or a bike for transportation?

If people that needed public assistance only could use their legs or a bike for transportation, nobody would ever be able to work the service jobs in your comfy suburb. Imagine a world where nobody would check you out at the grocery store or having to drive to the ghetto for a donut at Dunkin's...

 

[jnmnh]

Yeah I was gonna say the same thing as WVU. You can get a used Mercedes under $10k and it you wax a black Mercedes it will probably look good. A bluetooth can be had for like $20, and lots of poor people (including students) shell out for $150 sunglasses. Or $20 for knock-offs.

Hmm... I just realized that if only I could be bothered to wax my car regularly I could start looking like a proper drug dealer!

 

[Dr Wario]

If people that needed public assistance only could use their legs or a bike for transportation, nobody would ever be able to work the service jobs in your comfy suburb. Imagine a world where nobody would check you out at the grocery store or having to drive to the ghetto for a donut at Dunkin's...

Ah, so you are saying people on welfare should only be allowed to have a car as it permits them to work to repay the bill they owe the taxpayers? Great, I agree completely, so lets start now by repoing all the cars of people who do not work, then repo the ones who have jobs within 3 miles of their home. This is great, since most welfare recipients live in urban areas where low-skilled jobs are fairly close, we can reclaim say...70% of cars owned by welfare families? What a great thing, now we don't have to pay for their gas/insurance, they are getting more exercise which decreases healthcare expense, and it cuts down on city traffic.

My real problem with welfare is that it is not the safety net is should be (one that just prevents you from slamming your head against the concrete) it is a net covered with gold-trimmed pillows and is fifty feet off the ground. I can already hear the flames I'm going to get for saying this, it will be along the lines of "you are a rich pharmacist and you just don't understand what it is like to be poor!" and "you have no compassion for your fellow man!" These opinions don't bother me, what really saddens me is how consumerism is so rampant in the developed world that owning a car, living in a decent house and being able to afford cable can still be considered desperately poor. It is the same consumerism that keeps pharmacists obedient (yet sometimes outspoken) slaves to their greedy employers.

I really don't blame for people indulging in the system, I blame the people who made the system in the first place. All is fine though, because soon we will run out of money to sustain our current way of life, and cutting entitlements will no longer be a political decision, but a forced one. Or I guess we can just tax the "rich" people more and they can shoot a collective "bird" at all of us and leave (a la Atlas Shrugged), let's see how well we are off then.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

You know, I read that stupid ass book once like 10 years ago.

I found it amusing that after that dork finished his boring ass 60 page monologue...his conclusion is that he doesn't want to work/live for anyone else, nor does he want anyone to work/live for him and his like-minded railroad building cronies.

Am I the only ****ing person in the world that realized that all of these people are owners/CEOs/whatever of giant, national corporations that have laborers who quite literally live/work to make them money?

It's like the rules of the universe is smacking them in the face and they think it doesn't apply to them because they are oblivious to even the most basic level of rationality.

Some call it sociopathy. Well, I do, anyway.

I honestly thought that the book was satire the first time I read it. I thought it was like "A Modest Proposal" or something. More of a "Oh, I get it. Ha. Clever book." Like the first time I heard the president say "You can't fight in here, this is the war room!" in Dr. Strangelove.

Then a few years ago, I learned that there are actually some idiots that take this sociopathic bull**** seriously. At first I laughed. Then I thought about it for a second and I cried. This dumb bitch's idiotic philosophy doesn't stand up to like 3 seconds worth of intellectual scrutiny. Really, anything that pigeonholes itself into such a black and white reality is doomed to ridicule by people with a more sophisticated grasp on the reality of the world...I 'spose.

---

And speaking of the rich people. Who gives a **** if they left. The rich people nowadays are just owners of capital and money manipulators like hedge fund leeches. It's not like they actually do anything worthwhile like physically design and build railroads against the evil, wonderfully black-and-white government strawmen of Ayn Randian fame.

Honestly, if we just killed the top 400 people and took their money for redistributative purposes, not only would we be rid of a bunch of leeches, but we'd be out of the recession almost instantly due to the increase in aggregate consumer demand, increased personal savings, and decreased personal debt. Hell, the top 400 families have more capital wealth than 50% of all families. **** those guys.

That would be my personal platform if I ran for president. "Take the money of the ridiculously rich." I probably wouldn't win and be labeled a socialist or something.

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And, seriously...wtf is the big deal with poor people having a ****ty old ass car? Transportation is pretty much a requirement for 21st century living. Unless you think they should spend $20 for a taxi anytime they need to travel more than a 1/2 mile for groceries or other requirements for living.

Also, I think "most" people on welfare are the rural poor...I think, anyway...someone look that **** up...

 

[Medwell]

They cost the same as a 2 year old Chevy Cobalt or something similar the po' folk be drivin.

Fact: if you can afford a new to two-year-old Chevy Cobalt, you're not poor. I would love to be rich enough to afford any vehicle of any kind.

My real problem with welfare is that it is not the safety net is should be (one that just prevents you from slamming your head against the concrete) it is a net covered with gold-trimmed pillows and is fifty feet off the ground. I can already hear the flames I'm going to get for saying this, it will be along the lines of "you are a rich pharmacist and you just don't understand what it is like to be poor!" and "you have no compassion for your fellow man!" These opinions don't bother me, what really saddens me is how consumerism is so rampant in the developed world that owning a car, living in a decent house and being able to afford cable can still be considered desperately poor.

Awesome post! I'd love to discuss politics/finance with you sometime.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Fact: if you can afford a new to two-year-old Chevy Cobalt, you're not poor. I would love to be rich enough to afford any vehicle of any kind.

Jesus Christ, I looked them up, you're totally right. Who the eff would pay $12k for a two year old Cobalt?

I'm about to buy a 2008 Mercury Sable Premier for $14k...leather...power everything...comes with a decent 263HP engine with 6 speed auto transmission...really nice car...and for 2k less all you get is a piece of **** ancestor of the Chevy Cavalier?

I thought they were like $5-6k...damn, I'm out of touch with the econo-class automotive segment.

 

[lorain]

Ah, so you are saying people on welfare should only be allowed to have a car as it permits them to work to repay the bill they owe the taxpayers? Great, I agree completely, so lets start now by repoing all the cars of people who do not work, then repo the ones who have jobs within 3 miles of their home. This is great, since most welfare recipients live in urban areas where low-skilled jobs are fairly close, we can reclaim say...70% of cars owned by welfare families? What a great thing, now we don't have to pay for their gas/insurance, they are getting more exercise which decreases healthcare expense, and it cuts down on city traffic.

My real problem with welfare is that it is not the safety net is should be (one that just prevents you from slamming your head against the concrete) it is a net covered with gold-trimmed pillows and is fifty feet off the ground. I can already hear the flames I'm going to get for saying this, it will be along the lines of "you are a rich pharmacist and you just don't understand what it is like to be poor!" and "you have no compassion for your fellow man!" These opinions don't bother me, what really saddens me is how consumerism is so rampant in the developed world that owning a car, living in a decent house and being able to afford cable can still be considered desperately poor. It is the same consumerism that keeps pharmacists obedient (yet sometimes outspoken) slaves to their greedy employers.

I really don't blame for people indulging in the system, I blame the people who made the system in the first place. All is fine though, because soon we will run out of money to sustain our current way of life, and cutting entitlements will no longer be a political decision, but a forced one. Or I guess we can just tax the "rich" people more and they can shoot a collective "bird" at all of us and leave (a la Atlas Shrugged), let's see how well we are off then.

tax cut for the rich is one of the worst policy in recent memory...no jobs were really created, rich people just invest that money instead of spending it, whereas the data on the middle class for the last decade has been just awful

 

[pharmschooler]

Or I guess we can just tax the "rich" people more and they can shoot a collective "bird" at all of us and leave (a la Atlas Shrugged), let's see how well we are off then.

This is an assumption that is inconsistent with the data on the subject matter. Please listen to and read the following:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011...iday-podcast-do-the-rich-flee-high-tax-states

 

[WVUPharm2007]

This is an assumption that is inconsistent with the data on the subject matter. Please listen to and read the following:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011...iday-podcast-do-the-rich-flee-high-tax-states

Goddess Rand said otherwise. What takes place in her works of fiction supersedes reality.

 

[p-rog]

tax cut for the rich is one of the worst policy in recent memory...no jobs were really created, rich people just invest that money instead of spending it, whereas the data on the middle class for the last decade has been just awful

Agreed.

 

[Dr Wario]

Goddess Rand said otherwise. What takes place in her works of fiction supersedes reality.

Keep the straw men coming. (btw I am not a Rand worshiper)

 

[Dr Wario]

This is an assumption that is inconsistent with the data on the subject matter. Please listen to and read the following:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011...iday-podcast-do-the-rich-flee-high-tax-states

What you, and sadly even the authors of the article, do not take into account is how the money of the "rich" actually flows to avoid taxes as much as possible. There are good reasons why many businesses in the US are recorded in Nevada and Delaware, and these are mainly to do with taxes and government fees. Because of varying rules, the rich can live almost anywhere and flow their money through entities that have the lowest taxes, but you are a fool if you think that they will not move if it becomes financially prudent for them to do so.