Is it unrealistic for me to expect to work 50 hours a week or less?

[randombetch]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I am fairly confident that I will not end up in Emergency Medicine or Dermatology (as I have no interest in those fields whatsoever at the moment).

I want to work for a hospital and not private practice. I'd also like to do research while practicing.

Some specialties I'm interested in are hematology/oncology, infectious diseases, and surgery (not sure which kind).

Within these conditions, would it be unrealistic to expect to work around or less than 50 hours a week as an attending? How about as a department chair or as I gain seniority?

Honestly, I love working hard, but I do want to be a good father/husband and have time to spend with friends and family. Working 7 AM to 7 PM and beyond every day is just not acceptable for me, no matter how much I get paid...

 

[halekulani]

i'm sure you can do whatever you want
less work = less money.

 

[randombetch]

i'm sure you can do whatever you want
less work = less money.

Is that really how it works? I heard it'd be impossible to get a job if you say during your interview that you want to work 40 hours a week as a neurosurgeon (doesn't it cost the hospital money to have a doctor, so they have incentives to squeeze as many procedures out of that doctor as they can?)...

I guess it'd be possible to get a faculty position and then try to cut down on hours...

 

[Tattersall]

Halekulani is correct in that it's possible to achieve some flexibility in most specialties once you are qualified. Flexibility is probably less likely in most specialties during residency though.

I imagine your best bets would be the other three parts of ROAD: radiology, oncology and anesthesiology. Psychiatry can be another less work-intensive field. I'd discourage you from surgery right now.

Another consideration is where you work. Larger, urban hospitals are likely to provide more flexibility than smaller hospitals with smaller staff numbers.

 

[randombetch]

Halekulani is correct in that it's possible to achieve some flexibility in most specialties once you are qualified. Flexibility is probably less likely in most specialties during residency though.

I imagine your best bets would be the other three parts of ROAD: radiology, oncology and anesthesiology. Psychiatry can be another less work-intensive field. I'd discourage you from surgery right now.

Another consideration is where you work. Larger, urban hospitals are likely to provide more flexibility than smaller hospitals with smaller staff numbers.

Well, I'm definitely not very interested in radiology, anesthesiology, and ophthalmology (I think that's what you meant) at the moment, but thanks for the suggestions.

That's good news that larger hospitals are likely to provide more flexibility - my goal is to work at UCLA's hospital (and it's pretty huge).

I think I'd really like working as a surgeon, but I haven't actually performed surgery so I don't know for sure. My impression is that surgery would be really cool/fun and time would fly everyday. Is there less flexibility in the work hours of a surgeon?

 

[Tattersall]

Ooops. That is indeed what I meant.

Surgery as a field is typically very demanding, particularly during residency. While I'm sure some people have managed to find surgical residences with comfortable hours and gone on to practise for 50 hours a week, they would be far rarer than psychiatrists/opthalmologists/radiologists/anaethetists who have.

 

[Tattersall]

.

 

[Tattersall]

.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Within these conditions, would it be unrealistic to expect to work around or less than 50 hours a week as an attending? How about as a department chair or as I gain seniority?

This implies that you want to be on an academic track. If you even have aspirations of ending up as a dept chair, you will never come close to <50 hours per week, as you will have to (a) outperform/outresearch/outearn/outschmooze all your colleagues to get the job and then (b) work crazy hours once in the job.

 

[surftheiop]

Besides the obvious ones everyone else mentions here are some other ones that seem to give more chances for a 9-5 job.

Psychiatrists, outpatient physiatrists, radiation oncologist, radiology.

But if your working in academics you will probably be working a billion hours a week anyway.

If your interested in surgery and dont want to work a million hours seems ophtho would be a good thing to consider.

 

[halekulani]

Is that really how it works? I heard it'd be impossible to get a job if you say during your interview that you want to work 40 hours a week as a neurosurgeon (doesn't it cost the hospital money to have a doctor, so they have incentives to squeeze as many procedures out of that doctor as they can?)...

I guess it'd be possible to get a faculty position and then try to cut down on hours...

you can do what you want as far as hours-wise
this may not coincide with what you may want to do as a career though
also, don't count on getting paid unless you've established yourself as a prime physician who has gifted hands or something, which obviously requires you to actually work more than 50 hrs per week.

wanting to be a surgeon that doesn't work much would be pretty tough to find...it's not the mentality of a surgeon at all plus who goes through surgical residency to only do easy surgeries? don't count on getting good cases if you're a part-timer.

 

[LizzyM]

Being in academic medicine including department chair means administration (endless meetings), traveling and lecturing, teaching and rounding with your team, and writing grant proposals, supervising and working with your research team, writing up studies, and presenting research findings at scientific meetings.

If you play your cards right, you should have some time with family. It might be one afternoon per week that you can get out at 3 pm to see your kid's athletic competition because you came in at 5 am. You might work one or two weekends per month and you might have enough senority to say that you won't work the weekends when your favorite sports team is "at home" and that works if you pull your weight when you are on duty.

Some women manage part-time gigs when their kids are young but they tend to be "contributed faculty" meaning that they care for patients in private practice (and support themselves financially in that way) while providing some service to the medical school such as being a preceptor for a small group of students learning physical diagnosis skills (an hour per week for 20 weeks) but those women aren't climbing the academic career ladder on the way to being section chief or department chair.

 

[randombetch]

Being in academic medicine including department chair means administration (endless meetings), traveling and lecturing, teaching and rounding with your team, and writing grant proposals, supervising and working with your research team, writing up studies, and presenting research findings at scientific meetings.

If you play your cards right, you should have some time with family. It might be one afternoon per week that you can get out at 3 pm to see your kid's athletic competition because you came in at 5 am. You might work one or two weekends per month and you might have enough senority to say that you won't work the weekends when your favorite sports team is "at home" and that works if you pull your weight when you are on duty.

Some women manage part-time gigs when their kids are young but they tend to be "contributed faculty" meaning that they care for patients in private practice (and support themselves financially in that way) while providing some service to the medical school such as being a preceptor for a small group of students learning physical diagnosis skills (an hour per week for 20 weeks) but those women aren't climbing the academic career ladder on the way to being section chief or department chair.

Oh gawwwd. I guess working weekends wouldn't be so bad if I get to go home early and etc.

My dad worked from 7 AM - 9 PM 6 days a week when I was growing up. Compared to that, this won't be so bad.

If that's what it takes then I guess I just need to make sure I choose a field I really love doing...

 

[diosa428]

Keep in mind that before you're an attending you'll have to go through medical school and residency, during which your hours will be long and, in medical school, may be spent doing/learning things you don't want to do or don't like. Surgical residency is a minimum of 5 years, longer if there is required research or if you want to do fellowship. You will probably never work <50 hours/week in surgery residency (except possibly during research years). It can be a long path of misery if you don't end up finding something you like. Luckily, I ended up liking psychiatry (which I didn't think I would like going into medical school - it was probably one of my last choices), but I was really, really unhappy on the services that required long hours and can't imagine what I would have done if I had been set on surgery or something.

Also, in terms of finding a job that requires you to work <50 hours/week, the problem is that the place that employs you usually pays your malpractice insurance, which is the same amount no matter how many hours you work, so even if you're willing to take a paycut in order to work less hours, they're still spending as much on your malpractice as they would on someone working 80 hours/week. Which is one of the reasons it doesn't happen as often.

 

[randombetch]

Keep in mind that before you're an attending you'll have to go through medical school and residency, during which your hours will be long and, in medical school, may be spent doing/learning things you don't want to do or don't like. Surgical residency is a minimum of 5 years, longer if there is required research or if you want to do fellowship. You will probably never work <50 hours/week in surgery residency (except possibly during research years). It can be a long path of misery if you don't end up finding something you like. Luckily, I ended up liking psychiatry (which I didn't think I would like going into medical school - it was probably one of my last choices), but I was really, really unhappy on the services that required long hours and can't imagine what I would have done if I had been set on surgery or something.

Also, in terms of finding a job that requires you to work <50 hours/week, the problem is that the place that employs you usually pays your malpractice insurance, which is the same amount no matter how many hours you work, so even if you're willing to take a paycut in order to work less hours, they're still spending as much on your malpractice as they would on someone working 80 hours/week. Which is one of the reasons it doesn't happen as often.

Yes, I am aware of the hours during residency/medical school. I will probably not have a family until after residency though.

Yes, I am also aware of the cost of malpractice insurance (see the third post).

 

[Narmerguy]

Being in academic medicine including department chair means administration (endless meetings), traveling and lecturing, teaching and rounding with your team, and writing grant proposals, supervising and working with your research team, writing up studies, and presenting research findings at scientific meetings.

If you play your cards right, you should have some time with family. It might be one afternoon per week that you can get out at 3 pm to see your kid's athletic competition because you came in at 5 am. You might work one or two weekends per month and you might have enough senority to say that you won't work the weekends when your favorite sports team is "at home" and that works if you pull your weight when you are on duty.

Some women manage part-time gigs when their kids are young but they tend to be "contributed faculty" meaning that they care for patients in private practice (and support themselves financially in that way) while providing some service to the medical school such as being a preceptor for a small group of students learning physical diagnosis skills (an hour per week for 20 weeks) but those women aren't climbing the academic career ladder on the way to being section chief or department chair.

So are we basically saying that an academic career affords less time to be at home compared to a private practice? Let us even assume that one has no aspirations to become dept chairs or anything like that.

 

[LizzyM]

I've been working with academic MDs for 30 years. Yes, they have time to spend with their families. They go on vacation, they go away for the weekend (sometimes), they can be there for special events. But they also work 50 hours/wk or more and they are judged and compensated based on productivity which includes patient care and research (and teaching but to a much lesser extent).

I have less contact with non-academic physicians so I don't know how many choose to work fewer hours per week in exchange for a smaller income.

 

[J ROD]

EM docs on average as attendings work 40hrs/wk or less.....👍

 

[LizzyM]

EM docs on average as attendings work 40hrs/wk or less.....👍

But many of them will be working this Thursday while most of those who work >50 hours per week will have the day off. Ironic, isn't it?

 

[FIREitUP]

But many of them will be working this Thursday while most of those who work >50 hours per week will have the day off. Ironic, isn't it?

true, and also they have to do night shifts. So it depends; 40 hours can be worse than more than 50!

 

[Music MD]

Almost all of the surgical specialties are looking at 60+ as an attending. Surgery self selects for people who truly love the field and are willing to make the sacrifice of giving up time with their families. This is the nature of the field. If family is your biggest priority, you can pretty much rule out surgery.

In general, it's possible to work <50 hours but it will limit your specialty options and compensation. If this was your first criteria, it's possible that you could be stuck with specialty options that you don't truly enjoy. And let me add that currently you probably don't have a very good idea of what you'll enjoy. You haven't gotten enough exposure as a pre-med and your priorities may change.

 

[randombetch]

In general, it's possible to work <50 hours but it will limit your specialty options and compensation. If this was your first criteria, it's possible that you could be stuck with specialty options that you don't truly enjoy. And let me add that currently you probably don't have a very good idea of what you'll enjoy. You haven't gotten enough exposure as a pre-med and your priorities may change.

Very true. I can't imagine working more than 50-55 hours a week for the rest of my life though, but I would rather work 60 hours a week doing what I love than 40 hours a week doing what I don't enjoy.

I worked 70 hours a week last summer doing research (during the last month because I wanted to finish as much as I could before I had to go), and I didn't find it too difficult because I enjoyed what I was doing so much.

 

[J ROD]

But many of them will be working this Thursday while most of those who work >50 hours per week will have the day off. Ironic, isn't it?

I will gladly take more time off ALL year than get a few holidays and nights.

I like the variety in the EM schedule.....some nights, holidays (I already work them so I am used to it)....

I like more time off and dont want to worry about rounding and call!!

 

[J ROD]

true, and also they have to do night shifts. So it depends; 40 hours can be worse than more than 50!

different strokes for different folks!!

 

[LRAccord624]

To throw another specialty in the mix, I shadowed a pediatric neurologist for a long time. He does not have much to do with research now, but he is a senior partner in a large neurology practice in a big city. He still works about 60 hours a week, and takes call one weekend a month and one day a week. He told me that when he first started out he worked >70 hours a week and took call two weekends a month. At least now he has most weekends off, including Friday afternoons, and he gets to take a few vacations with his family.

Anyone know the work schedule of a neuroradiologist? I have really been thinking about looking into this specialty, assuming I get in to medical school in the first place 🙂