Is it weird if my research PI for 1 1/2 yrs didn't write me a LOR?

[CupcakeMD]

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Hey everyone,

I've researched for one and a half years, did poster presentations and submitted a research paper. However, I wasn't able to get a letter of rec from my PI.

Regarding DO schools, since I heard they are not as research-oriented as MD schools, would it be a red flag if I didn't get a LOR from him? Has anyone done research and didn't get a LOR, but applied through AACOMAS and still got accepted?

Thank you, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[UCFMOP]

I worked for my PI for 9 months and he told he would write a poor letter. I was like "man you are a ****". I think some of the most miserable, and meanest people are professors.

 

[Darklord]

That really sucks. A year of work and no letter of recommendation, man...

 

[udsoccer7]

Hey everyone,

I've researched for one and a half years, did poster presentations and submitted a research paper. However, I wasn't able to get a letter of rec from my PI.

Regarding DO schools, since I heard they are not as research-oriented as MD schools, would it be a red flag if I didn't get a LOR from him? Has anyone done research and didn't get a LOR, but applied through AACOMAS and still got accepted?

Thank you, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

It should not be a problem with DO schools. I worked for my PI for 3 years after undergrad, and although he was willing to write me a letter, the DO schools did not require one from him. If I remember correctly, letters for DO schools have to be from a physician and your pre-med advisor. You should be just fine.

Out of curiosity, did your PI not want to write one for you or are you reluctant to use them as your letter of rec?

 

[Limvostov]

Don't worry too much about not getting that letter. I know it is awful for them to refuse because they know how important letters are for admission to medical school. I would however ask your PI what you could have done differently or what you could do from here on out to receive a positive letter (make sure they say they will write a positive letter!). Let them know why you are pursuing a medical degree and how much a letter from them would mean to you. Don't beg, but let them know that you respect them (their professionalism, intricacy of their projects, work ethic, ect.) and have learned a lot while working with/for them (such as... "The scientific research skills that I have obtained while working in your lab are invaluable and I know that they will serve me well when I read medical journals and research studies in the future."), and that a letter would really help convey those things to a medical school admissions committee.

I currently work with a lot of professors and they all took a while to get to know. They are just people like anyone else and some (in my experience) take offense to the idea of "losing" a promising engineer to medicine. They know how much the letter is worth and getting it is something that takes work and time. Always be grateful, positive, and enthusiastic about whatever your PI asks of you (as long as it is research related) and it will serve you well when you ask for that letter.

Hang in there, getting into medical school is an obstacle course.

 

[lastcall]

I worked for my PI for 9 months and he told he would write a poor letter. I was like "man you are a ****". I think some of the most miserable, and meanest people are professors.

That really sucks. But on the bright side, at least he warned you he was going to write a negative letter. It would've been worse if he didn't tell you he was going to write a negative letter and sent it out to med schools. But I agree he sounds like a jerk.

 

[CupcakeMD]

Out of curiosity, did your PI not want to write one for you or are you reluctant to use them as your letter of rec?

My PI was willing to write me a LOR, but only for allopathic schools. I got similar reactions with my other professor (her father was an MD, and she blatantly said she has a bias against DO). I know, weird would be an understatement... But yea.. weird.

So far, I have 3 LOR for DO schools: 1 from a science professor, 1 from my volunteering internship, 1 from my work, and hopefully, 1 more coming from an M.D. doctor that I worked with. I see that some osteopathic schools accept LOR from either D.O. or M.D. doctors, so that is good.

 

[antapolar]

wow...what kind of prof is that? prejudice against D.O and even out-right blatantly state it? I can believe there are ppl especially in the scientific field still have some grudge against D.O.

But yeah, reserach LoR would be nice usually because after spending so much time in the lab. The prof will really get to know you, and most likely able to write a good/personal reference. However, as previously stated, not always required. You could still mention your work in other parts of appt by all means.

 

[ChairmanMao]

Yeah I agree that this whole things about being turned for a LoR sucks regardless of why they refuse to write you one. If you performed poorly at your job, then learn from it and don't make the same mistakes again. If you were turned down for other reasons, don't fret, it happens all the time. One of my PIs who I worked with for 1 year promised to write me a letter but 6 months later totally forgot about it. One of my supervisors at my previous job refused to write one due to "legal reasons" (only the company's HR office could confirm that I ever worked for the company). And in my past job, I've had to ask 5 MDs in order to get one letter (the other MDs were either too busy or wrote letters only for residents and medical students).

So bottom line. Reach out and try to work with more than one PI or more on more than one research group. This is easy to do if you work in a large lab or medical center. If your PI is too busy or turns you down, you can go and ask another PI or one of trusted colleagues.

 

[AdemTD]

My PI was willing to write me a LOR, but only for allopathic schools. I got similar reactions with my other professor (her father was an MD, and she blatantly said she has a bias against DO). I know, weird would be an understatement... But yea.. weird.

So far, I have 3 LOR for DO schools: 1 from a science professor, 1 from my volunteering internship, 1 from my work, and hopefully, 1 more coming from an M.D. doctor that I worked with. I see that some osteopathic schools accept LOR from either D.O. or M.D. doctors, so that is good.

What a toolette. She probably didn't get into any medical schools including D.O.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

My PI was willing to write me a LOR, but only for allopathic schools. I got similar reactions with my other professor (her father was an MD, and she blatantly said she has a bias against DO). I know, weird would be an understatement... But yea.. weird.

So far, I have 3 LOR for DO schools: 1 from a science professor, 1 from my volunteering internship, 1 from my work, and hopefully, 1 more coming from an M.D. doctor that I worked with. I see that some osteopathic schools accept LOR from either D.O. or M.D. doctors, so that is good.

Wow, I wonder what sort of propaganda she's been exposed to. Anyone who in this day and age has a "bias against DOs" is either extremely ignorant or simply misinformed.

 

[reaton]

Why don't you offer to write the letter for her/him? I did that for a couple of people I needed letters from.

 

[AdemTD]

Why don't you offer to write the letter for her/him? I did that for a couple of people I needed letters from.

Is that legit? I mean I guess schools would really never know unless the letter was really bad, but isn't there some ethical issue with that? I was under the impression that LOR were supposed to be confidential. Disclaimer: I'm just asking questions, not making any judgments.

 

[Art Vandelay2]

OP, are u worthy of a positive LOR? Sometimes people say no for a reason...

 

[ChairmanMao]

Is that legit? I mean I guess schools would really never know unless the letter was really bad, but isn't there some ethical issue with that? I was under the impression that LOR were supposed to be confidential. Disclaimer: I'm just asking questions, not making any judgments.

No, not really. LOR's don't have to be confidential and almost all my recommenders have told me that they don't care who sees it.

What could be the problem with writing your own recommendations is that if you've never done it before, it might look very amateurish. I've seen the way my PI's and profs write their letters and you can easily tell the difference in usage and diction between that of a 50-year old tenured prof and a 21 year old college junior. If you're going to write your own letter, make sure you know how how to reflect your PI's tone and experience in that letter.

 

[slick27]

why risk it. I woudn't write my own lette of rec. just get your premed committee letter and a DO letter. Those two will work just fine.

 

[Limvostov]

My letter from the head of engineering had me write out a list of things I had done in school and after school (3 years worth) so that he could seem as though he knew me well and had kept in touch. His letter seemed to work great, but it did make me nervous to know that it would be pieced together from my descriptions. My committee letter was similar, but the person who wrote it interviewed me and took some notes and then read my other five letters to make one summary cover letter.

 

[UCFMOP]

OP, are u worthy of a positive LOR? Sometimes people say no for a reason...

Quoted for doucheness

 

[CupcakeMD]

OP, are u worthy of a positive LOR? Sometimes people say no for a reason...

Sorry, I guess I didn't make myself clear in my last response, so I'll say it again... My PI DID write me a letter of rec, but only for allopathic schools. I am applying to both DO and MD schools. So I don't think the issue is if I was worthy of a positive LOR, the issue is he didn't write me one explicitly for DO schools.

But that's besides the main point. I was just wondering if not having one from my PI would raise a red flag for DO schools like it would if, say, I didn't have one from him for MD schools. But from everyone's responses, I guess it doesn't?


And reaton, I actually did write my own LOR draft for my PI, which he refined and used. But like I said, this letter is for allopathic schools. Thank you everyone, for your $0.02!

 

[liquid8r]

I guess I don't understand why the MD/DO distinction is important to tell the letter writer. I mean, why can't you just tell your PI that you need a LoR for an accredited medical school. Do they specifically mention allopathic/MD school in the letter (since you said you wrote it)? If it does, I find that very bizarre. All my letters simply mentioned medical school and did not make a distinction on the degree granted.

If the letter does not make a distinction between MD or DO, then have the letter uploaded into Interfolio and send it out to DO schools along with MD schools. Problem solved.

 

[slick27]

OP, are u worthy of a positive LOR? Sometimes people say no for a reason...

If the op is still employed be this person, than they most be doing their job. The PI is just being difficult.

 

[ModernChemistry]

Why don't you offer to write the letter for her/him? I did that for a couple of people I needed letters from.

I hope I'm not alone when I say that this is dishonorable and should not be promoted...

 

[0Complications]

I would be so pissed if my PI wouldn't write me a LOR... Granted I've been there for a looooooong time, but a 1 1/2 years? Seriously? That's jacked. Did you ask him why he wouldn't?

Obviously, if they say no it is not a good idea to press the issue, but I would be curious to know why he/she didn't think well enough of me to write me a letter.

 

[Semicolon]

I hope I'm not alone when I say that this is dishonorable and should not be promoted...

While I agree it defeats the purpose of an LOR, plenty of people do this (usually because the LOR writer asks the person to do it, not the other way around). I was asked by both doctors I got an LOR from to write a draft myself that they would use as a template.

But man, that sucks. To work for a guy for one and a half years and be rejected when you ask for a measly letter. I would be incredibly pissed. If I were you, I would sabotage his work!

 

[0Complications]

While I agree it defeats the purpose of an LOR, plenty of people do this (usually because the LOR writer asks the person to do it, not the other way around). I was asked by both doctors I got an LOR from to write a draft myself that they would use as a template.

But man, that sucks. To work for a guy for one and a half years and be rejected when you ask for a measly letter. I would be incredibly pissed. If I were you, I would sabotage his work!

I agree. This is fairly commonplace. It's a huge pain to write good letters, so they just want to make sure you have given them a template and direction/focus.