Is it wierd?

[danaphosaurus]

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Hey- Just wanted some opinions- Our PD dropped the news on us yesterday that he is having the program manager come to lunch with us and our candidates- It will be 4 residents, 3 candidates and her. We all thought that is was not right and that it made us look like we have something to hide (we do not)- What do you think?

 

[yaah]

What is a program manager? Is that your program's term for the program coordinator (aka adminstrative assistant in charge of resident issues)?

It is very odd that she will be at the lunch with you and the candidates. I wouldn't like that (either as a candidate or as a resident). Did he say why? I would ask why.

 

[pathdoc68]

Hey- Just wanted some opinions- Our PD dropped the news on us yesterday that he is having the program manager come to lunch with us and our candidates- It will be 4 residents, 3 candidates and her. We all thought that is was not right and that it made us look like we have something to hide (we do not)- What do you think?

That is lame, your PD does not trust his/her own residents. If I were an applicant I would never rank a program that pulled a stunt like that.

 

[112641]

Does no one else have an opinion on this? We are trying to get them to reconsider their decision to run the interviews this way but right now we don't have any ammunition besides our own misgivings and when we brought this up the desire by the PD to have the program manager get more contact with the candidates (which is very valid but we think it should be done differently) is outweighing our misgivings.

 

[djmd]

Does no one else have an opinion on this? We are trying to get them to reconsider their decision to run the interviews this way but right now we don't have any ammunition besides our own misgivings and when we brought this up the desire by the PD to have the program manager get more contact with the candidates (which is very valid but we think it should be done differently) is outweighing our misgivings.

Still don't understand what the program manager is verses the director (like a assistant director?), but yes I agree completely.
Having Staff at lunch when candidates are there is unlikely to convey the "ask anything" and "here is the truth about the program" atmosphere that one generally tries to convey. And that is doubly true for people in charge of the residency program.
It might be ok with some staff who really do get along the with the residents, but even if the residents all feel comfortable, the candidate might not...

Have the PD schedule a meeting with the RCs and the PM at some other time.
Most PD meet with people at the beginning of the day and then again at the end. Maybe right before the last PD meeting.

Edit:
Having read your description below, if the RCs even "need" to meet with PM, it shouldn't be at lunch. I don't even buy that they need to meet, but if that is desired, then a short 15 minute meeting at the end of the day (or right at the beginning, when they are just getting started)

 

[112641]

Sorry I dind't explain that... the PD (program director) = the attending in charge of the residency I think the same as what every other program has basically.. the Program manager is like a more skilled administrative assistant the best I can see, although she would probably see that characterization as insulting I can't think of a better way to describe her job. She does most of the paperwork in the program having to do with procedures, scheduling, contacting candidates, she doesn't really have much say over residents or hiring but she isn't a powerless observer either.

 

[LADoc00]

wierd as in unexpected? Hardly, when pathology was REALLY unpopular with med students it was not unheard of to have PDs who were more aggressive than military recruiters. In fact many places had (still have?) a group of residents that do ALL the applicant lunches, people hand selected and often bribed with fellowship slots that will make a crap program sound like roses to naive med students.

If you want to see a realistic behind the scenes view of academic pathology, watch the movie "The Departed". Loosely based on a famous Boston residency program....

 

[yaah]

The residents who go to the interviews should all get together and tell the PD they will not sit for them unless it can be a private conversation (i.e. without a spy). I would tell him that as an applicant, if I went to such a lunch, I would immediately lower the place several rungs on my rank list. No bull.

They are not going to fire you for saying this. You are being honest. If they want the best residents they will understand.

 

[mlw03]

ok, i finally figured out what was meant by the question. i too agree with the others that as an applicant i'd be very skeptical of any lunch where the program coordinator was there. the resident lunch should be a time to get an honest eval of a program from people who are similar in age to you and who hopefully will be honest with you - however if anyone from 'management' is there i'd be inclined to think residents might be afaid to answer difficult questions with total honesty. it wouldn't be enough to make me not rank a program, but i'd certainly consider the encounter when putting together my rank list.