Is it worth it to pursue dentistry nowadays?

[LFA20]

Don’t go into any health profession based on a projected debt/income ratio. If Income and debt are your primary concern then being a doctor or dentist is not in your best interest. Go into it for the right reasons. No matter what career you choose, you will have to face financial debt at some point in your life unless you plan on buying a house, car, etc. with upfront cash (good luck)! Think about it like this: student loans for dental and medical school are funding for your startup, which is you as an individual. You are the investment because you are an asset to society. From a lender perspective they are loaning someone money who is qualified and has the self confidence as a future professional to guarantee repayment. You bet on yourself. To put it simply: someone comes to you and said I have $500k and I want to purchase an asset that will guarantee me future returns. Do you tell them you are going to purchase a house or stocks? Or do you believe that your knowledge and skill set (which you have ultimate control over) are a better guarantee?

What do you consider the “right” reasons? To me being able to pay back what I borrow, not have the stress of debt looming over my head, and have a good lifestyle is very important.

I agree that Debt will likely be a part of everyone’s life at some point but that doesn’t justify Not having to worry about debt as long as you love your profession...

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[321931]

What do you consider the “right” reasons? To me being able to pay back what I borrow, not have the stress of debt looming over my head, and have a good lifestyle is very important.

I agree that Debt will likely be a part of everyone’s life at some point but that doesn’t justify Not having to worry about debt as long as you love your profession...

I agree with this. Debt should be taken into account. I think dentistry is a great job if you can land the right practice out of school...but if you can't and you have a big debt burden...the job is harder then most jobs.

 

[Afterhoursdentist]

What do you consider the “right” reasons? To me being able to pay back what I borrow, not have the stress of debt looming over my head, and have a good lifestyle is very important.

I agree that Debt will likely be a part of everyone’s life at some point but that doesn’t justify Not having to worry about debt as long as you love your profession...

Have your ever considered being a financial analyst or a Wall Street trader? You would probably be great at it. I’m not saying a student trying to be a doctor shouldn’t consider the debt they are going to take on because they love what they do. I’m saying that succesfuls doctor take into consideration but don’t really give a **** because they are confident that they will generate the income to pay it back

 

[HOPAone]

I mean it makes sense to me. Keep in mind this study has average debt at 240k; it's 280k now.
That just tells us that no one is really on the standard 10 year repayment plan.
PAYE and IBR with $1400 monthly sounds about right to me.
Who can really afford to make $5000 monthly payments starting out?

This is so sad and disheartening. I guess most people think dentists are high-income earners. But then again potential dental students should know what kind of debt they’re getting into. If they don’t know or don’t care, shame on them. And when those kids come out they will have to do pretty much ANYTHING to pay off their astronomical debts!

 

[distressstudent]

This is so sad and disheartening. I guess most people think dentists are high-income earners. But then again potential dental students should know what kind of debt they’re getting into. If they don’t know or don’t care, shame on them. And when those kids come out they will have to do pretty much ANYTHING to pay off their astronomical debts!

It's not limited to potential dental students. Even potential dentist in their last year of dental school sometimes don't know what they get into. Somehow 400 x 0.06 = 24 is a surprise to them (24k in interest a year). I wish I was kidding, but that's the reality. That's why corporate dentistry is so popular. Students get so anxious and cornered that they'd sign the first offer they get. I have been hearing the words, "I didn't have a choice" really often.

 

[Vortex_Ring_State]

In your honest opinion, is it worth it to pursue dentistry even if the tuition is around 400-500k? I was wondering if recent grads and current dentists could give their inputs, as the debt in this day and age does seem daunting and I’d like to be informed. I assume that after your repayment term, things become less difficult? Thank you!

I can say most definitely it is NOT worth it. Collecting 25% of a $180 filling which takes half an hour (if/when the patient pays) between loads of exams for which you revive almost no money, with zero benefits, paying your own employment taxes and breaking your back daily.... be prepared for a lifetime of indentured servitude. Reality checks: in California a FNP makes better money working fewer hours with vastly better benefits (ie. They have benefits).

The reality of practicing in California as a new grad (who doesn’t inherit a practice from someone in their family) is this: get lucky and find part time employment and make 60-80k a year with zero benefits - remember you’ve got to pay for health insurance, malpractice, renewing your license etc. Oh, and you better be ready to work weekends as well. This has been the average experience of multiple people I’ve gotten to know. 120k is a pipe dream as a fresh grad if you want to work in California.

 

[321931]

I can say most definitely it is NOT worth it. Collecting 25% of a $180 filling which takes half an hour (if/when the patient pays) between loads of exams for which you revive almost no money, with zero benefits, paying your own employment taxes and breaking your back daily.... be prepared for a lifetime of indentured servitude. Reality checks: in California a FNP makes better money working fewer hours with vastly better benefits (ie. They have benefits).

The reality of practicing in California as a new grad (who doesn’t inherit a practice from someone in their family) is this: get lucky and find part time employment and make 60-80k a year with zero benefits - remember you’ve got to pay for health insurance, malpractice, renewing your license etc. Oh, and you better be ready to work weekends as well. This has been the average experience of multiple people I’ve gotten to know. 120k is a pipe dream as a fresh grad if you want to work in California.

The biggest problem is that 25% on 180$ filling...will probably become 25% on 140$ in 10 years or less. When insurance companies control the fees, there is oversaturation with new grads, inflation, corporate competition etc etc...I can't see how are fees will INCREASE. It will only decrease in my opinion...

That's why I only really give dentistry a good outlook 10-15 years out. Be frugal, save your money, and be prepared to say one day "this ain't worth breaking my back anymore" and go into teaching or something else.

In addition, if free healthcare becomes a thing including dentistry, you can say bye bye to the entire field of private practice. There will be a generational shift when the boomers retire out of power, and the millennials take over and push for free education/healthcare. Your filling will be 50$ and you will be paid in 6 months.

 

[2TH MVR]

With regard to going into teaching, being a full-time clinical professor at a dental school actually isn't that bad financially. You will generally start out around 90-100k assuming you practice at a faculty clinic and teach full-time. The pressure to produce in faculty clinic isn't as cutthroat as in private practice and once you make tenure after a few years, it's pretty much a lifetime job. Oh, you also get paid vacation and university employee benefits. Most public universities also offer tuition remission for children of full-time employees. If you want to live in major cities without having to worry about the business side, becoming a full-time faculty isn't a shabby way to go.

When I decided to semi-retire and sold my private practice.... I looked into teaching and Corp. Those were my only options. My friend (a GP) was disabled 4-5 yrs ago and was forced to go into teaching (Midwestern Arizona). He actually enjoys it. But he also told me that the pay is low (as you stated). You work 5 days a week. The worst part is that in order to get a raise ..... you have to kiss a lot of a** just like any other Corp business. There is ALOT of school politics. But he enjoys helping the soon to be in debt dental students. Yes .... teaching young students would be self validating and a good thing.

But I chose the dental Corp route instead. Why? Last year .... I made TRIPLE that 90-100K amount .... working PART TIME. I worked 3-4 days per week. 3 days one week. 4 days the next. Yes ... I work every fri-sat. I get cheap health insurance ($300 monthly premium for a family of four) , 401K, FREE malpractice insurance, FREE CE, and I get to go to the annual 3 day fully paid for Corp symposiums in sunny California once a year. In the Corp office ... there is a managing GP and the specialists. We both lead our parts of the office. There is no one breathing down my neck. I do ZERO administrative stuff. ZERO business anything. Nada. I just show up. Clock in. Do my thing. Clock out. Git paid. My hours have never been cut. If anything ... they want me to work more days which I may do since I get bored on those 3 day work weeks.

I will tell you that working Corp is no where near as glamerous as teaching. It's essentially a **** show where I work, but hey .... it is interesting. I kind of feel like a hired mercenary. But the patients are nice and appreciative for their care.

I am not pro-Dent Corp at all, but for myself .... it was a better option than teaching.

 

[TanMan]

I can say most definitely it is NOT worth it. Collecting 25% of a $180 filling which takes half an hour (if/when the patient pays) between loads of exams for which you revive almost no money, with zero benefits, paying your own employment taxes and breaking your back daily.... be prepared for a lifetime of indentured servitude. Reality checks: in California a FNP makes better money working fewer hours with vastly better benefits (ie. They have benefits).

The reality of practicing in California as a new grad (who doesn’t inherit a practice from someone in their family) is this: get lucky and find part time employment and make 60-80k a year with zero benefits - remember you’ve got to pay for health insurance, malpractice, renewing your license etc. Oh, and you better be ready to work weekends as well. This has been the average experience of multiple people I’ve gotten to know. 120k is a pipe dream as a fresh grad if you want to work in California.

If you have no control over the reimbursements and no position to negotiate, then you have to work faster. Half an hour for a filling is a long time for a filling.

 

[LFA20]

When I decided to semi-retire and sold my private practice.... I looked into teaching and Corp. Those were my only options. My friend (a GP) was disabled 4-5 yrs ago and was forced to go into teaching (Midwestern Arizona). He actually enjoys it. But he also told me that the pay is low (as you stated). You work 5 days a week. The worst part is that in order to get a raise ..... you have to kiss a lot of a** just like any other Corp business. There is ALOT of school politics. But he enjoys helping the soon to be in debt dental students. Yes .... teaching young students would be self validating and a good thing.

But I chose the dental Corp route instead. Why? Last year .... I made TRIPLE that 90-100K amount .... working PART TIME. I worked 3-4 days per week. 3 days one week. 4 days the next. Yes ... I work every fri-sat. I get cheap health insurance ($300 monthly premium for a family of four) , 401K, FREE malpractice insurance, FREE CE, and I get to go to the annual 3 day fully paid for Corp symposiums in sunny California once a year. In the Corp office ... there is a managing GP and the specialists. We both lead our parts of the office. There is no one breathing down my neck. I do ZERO administrative stuff. ZERO business anything. Nada. I just show up. Clock in. Do my thing. Clock out. Git paid. My hours have never been cut. If anything ... they want me to work more days which I may do since I get bored on those 3 day work weeks.

I will tell you that working Corp is no where near as glamerous as teaching. It's essentially a **** show where I work, but hey .... it is interesting. I kind of feel like a hired mercenary. But the patients are nice and appreciative for their care.

I am not pro-Dent Corp at all, but for myself .... it was a better option than teaching.

Would you say it’s the same for general dentists/endodontists at the Corp? Your job seems like heaven to me. No stress involved

 

[2TH MVR]

Would you say it’s the same for general dentists/endodontists at the Corp? Your job seems like heaven to me. No stress involved

There are no endos at the Corp I work for. The seasoned, experienced GPs do most of the endos. If the endo is too difficult .... it gets referred out.

As for the general dentists. Their compensation is more convoluted than mine. Our Corp pays a guaranteed daily along with bonuses. I actually prefer this pay arrangement. All specialists and GPs get a minimum daily amount regardless of how many patients we see.
Ortho. Simple pay arrangement. Guaranteed daily plus bonuses for starts. It doesn't matter if the patient is medicaid, access, cash, insurance, etc. etc. My daily and start bonuses are the same regardless of the type of insurance a pt has.
GPs on the other hand are also paid a guaranteed daily (about 40-50% less than the orthos), but their bonuses are convoluted in that the bonuses are directly related to the type of insurance the patient has. Therefore .... if the Corp sees alot of Access patients .... your bonuses will be less than those with good insurance patients.

Overbooking of patients. Happens all the time. Mostly because 10-20 of the scheduled pts never show up. I saw 60-70 patients yesterday. A challenging day. Most of the pts did show up . But with ortho ..... the procedures can be altered to fit the schedule. Heavy schedule .... light, quick appts. Weak schedule .... I'll reposition brackets, take progress records, bond 2nd molars, etc. etc. I have CONTROL of what I do. The GPs don't. As you all know .... the GPs deal with more HANDS ON procedures. Hard to rush through a crown prep although I'm sure it happens.

So yes. Ortho in Corp is not bad. Seriously. I've been with the Corp for a little over 2 years now. Not once has any middle manager mentioned to me to increase production. It's IMPLIED. I get it. I don't need to be told. As a matter of fact .... I've agreed to take on another office. 5 days per week now. Wheeee.

 

[LFA20]

There are no endos at the Corp I work for. The seasoned, experienced GPs do most of the endos. If the endo is too difficult .... it gets referred out.

As for the general dentists. Their compensation is more convoluted than mine. Our Corp pays a guaranteed daily along with bonuses. I actually prefer this pay arrangement. All specialists and GPs get a minimum daily amount regardless of how many patients we see.
Ortho. Simple pay arrangement. Guaranteed daily plus bonuses for starts. It doesn't matter if the patient is medicaid, access, cash, insurance, etc. etc. My daily and start bonuses are the same regardless of the type of insurance a pt has.
GPs on the other hand are also paid a guaranteed daily (about 40-50% less than the orthos), but their bonuses are convoluted in that the bonuses are directly related to the type of insurance the patient has. Therefore .... if the Corp sees alot of Access patients .... your bonuses will be less than those with good insurance patients.

Overbooking of patients. Happens all the time. Mostly because 10-20 of the scheduled pts never show up. I saw 60-70 patients yesterday. A challenging day. Most of the pts did show up . But with ortho ..... the procedures can be altered to fit the schedule. Heavy schedule .... light, quick appts. Weak schedule .... I'll reposition brackets, take progress records, bond 2nd molars, etc. etc. I have CONTROL of what I do. The GPs don't. As you all know .... the GPs deal with more HANDS ON procedures. Hard to rush through a crown prep although I'm sure it happens.

So yes. Ortho in Corp is not bad. Seriously. I've been with the Corp for a little over 2 years now. Not once has any middle manager mentioned to me to increase production. It's IMPLIED. I get it. I don't need to be told. As a matter of fact .... I've agreed to take on another office. 5 days per week now. Wheeee.

Thanks so much for the info.