is it worth spending 200-250k to get a DDS ?

[ASPddsaspirant]

Hi,

I'm a FTD. I graduated with BDS from India.

Is it worth in this economy to shell out such huge money 200- 250 k (for ASP DDS) - 1 crore INR

After reading a lot of negative threads in SDN, i suppose is doing MDS (master's in dentistry) from india a better option?

Could someone give a real idea how tough it is for FTD without a greencard to go on and establish themselves in the US? Is there anyone here who is in dental school and finding it tough to get a job as associate in the various chains? Can people who are currently working etc give an honest opinion.

P.S. : I'm 25 years old now. Have completed NBDE 1 and TOEFL. And applied to a few schools in the East coast.

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[impactedmind]

Hi,

I'm a FTD. I graduated with BDS from India.

Is it worth in this economy to shell out such huge money 200- 250 k (for ASP DDS) - 1 crore INR

After reading a lot of negative threads in SDN, i suppose is doing MDS (master's in dentistry) from india a better option?

Could someone give a real idea how tough it is for FTD without a greencard to go on and establish themselves in the US? Is there anyone here who is in dental school and finding it tough to get a job as associate in the various chains? Can people who are currently working etc give an honest opinion.

P.S. : I'm 25 years old now. Have completed NBDE 1 and TOEFL. And applied to a few schools in the East coast.

Seriously dude this is a thread for ppl wanting to do dds....there are highly motivated and hard working ppl here who dont give a damm abt some ppl saying dds is a waste of money and u shd not go for it....there are many ppl on sdn who themselves tried but were not able to go for dds and then try to discourage ppl who try by sayin negative things...
And btw what guarantee u have tat after doing mds u will be successful and will earn a lot after 3 yrs of study in india....
So there is no one in this world who can predict what will happen after 2yrs ...being successful is up to u...
so stop listening to idiots who discourage others and do wat u think is correct

All the best

 

[ASPddsaspirant]

Seriously dude this is a thread for ppl wanting to do dds....there are highly motivated and hard working ppl here who dont give a damm abt some ppl saying dds is a waste of money and u shd not go for it....there are many ppl on sdn who themselves tried but were not able to go for dds and then try to discourage ppl who try by sayin negative things...
And btw what guarantee u have tat after doing mds u will be successful and will earn a lot after 3 yrs of study in india....
So there is no one in this world who can predict what will happen after 2yrs ...being successful is up to u...
so stop listening to idiots who discourage others and do wat u think is correct

All the best

Thanks for the reply.

MDS in india in a government school wouldn't cost much. Infact the income and expenditure balance them out. So there's no strain while studying MDS and we are financially free(i'm not referring to private colleges) But while we come out of DDS we're 1 crore in debt. This was what i was alluding to.

The hard work part is one. The financial part is another. I was hoping experienced people would come forward and answer regarding :
1. how tough are post DDS scenario for a non green card holder
2. how much years would it be once we become financially free/ debt free?
3. the cost factor. the experiences of FTD dentists working there and students/once who are going into the programme. how are you tackling the fees?

P.S. : agreed attitude is a big thing. But it would be foolhardy to say debt/fees is not a problem. it is definitely a huge factor. One can't give hard work and motivation in exchange for the fees !! So practical and realistic experiences are welcome.

 

[dubaident]

i am hearing about a lot of negative feedbacks about doing dds .
Doing an MDS is a good option but its never internationally accepted !!!!!!!
If you want to practise in any place other than india doing dds would be the best option

but it all depends on how much you are motivated for it !!

QUOTE=ASPddsaspirant;11845594]Thanks for the reply.

MDS in india in a government school wouldn't cost much. Infact the income and expenditure balance them out. So there's no strain while studying MDS and we are financially free(i'm not referring to private colleges) But while we come out of DDS we're 1 crore in debt. This was what i was alluding to.

The hard work part is one. The financial part is another. I was hoping experienced people would come forward and answer regarding :
1. how tough are post DDS scenario for a non green card holder
2. how much years would it be once we become financially free/ debt free?
3. the cost factor. the experiences of FTD dentists working there and students/once who are going into the programme. how are you tackling the fees?

P.S. : agreed attitude is a big thing. But it would be foolhardy to say debt/fees is not a problem. it is definitely a huge factor. One can't give hard work and motivation in exchange for the fees !! So practical and realistic experiences are welcome.[/QUOTE]

 

[Dentistree711]

Thanks for the reply.

MDS in india in a government school wouldn't cost much. Infact the income and expenditure balance them out. So there's no strain while studying MDS and we are financially free(i'm not referring to private colleges) But while we come out of DDS we're 1 crore in debt. This was what i was alluding to.

The hard work part is one. The financial part is another. I was hoping experienced people would come forward and answer regarding :
1. how tough are post DDS scenario for a non green card holder
2. how much years would it be once we become financially free/ debt free?
3. the cost factor. the experiences of FTD dentists working there and students/once who are going into the programme. how are you tackling the fees?

P.S. : agreed attitude is a big thing. But it would be foolhardy to say debt/fees is not a problem. it is definitely a huge factor. One can't give hard work and motivation in exchange for the fees !! So practical and realistic experiences are welcome.

Hello,

Okay first thing first ALL the schools DO NOT cost you 200-250k. There are some cheaper ones such as BU, UMN etc.
I guess the West Coast Schools and NYU are the most expensive ones for the IDP.

1. Post DDS scenario is not too bad for people who DO NOT have green cards. You can work under OPT for a year after graduation and hopefully your hiring associate likes you enough by then to sponsor your visa. Ideally if you are looking forward to get "FULL TIME" job offers in hep and happening cities like NY, Boston , SF , LA just FORGET IT ! Even people who are citizens/green card holders are only able to find "PART TIME JOBS" immediately after graduation. We are advised to often do multiple part time jobs for the first couple years. Imagine you have a successful practice and you want an associate - this person happens to be a fresh graduate. Wouldn't you be justified to hire that person part-time to see how he gels with your staff and how he treat your patients ? That's why you end up getting part time jobs when u first graduate.
However, if you want to move into the country for e.g. in rural parts of US the jobs are better paying and more secure. BUT the closest mall and movie theatre would be only 1hr drive away
States like Alaska and Texas have a good pool of vacancies.
So it depends on what YOU want to do after you graduate.

2. As far as debt goes , AGAIN it depends on your circumstances on if you have a family to support/single, how soon you want to buy your practice, how "luxurious" life do you want to indulge in after graduation (e.g. how soon u want to buy your BMW and a house on the hilltop ) . BIG factor is if you are planning to do PG immediately after IDP your loans are going to add up. Other circumstantial things would be the rate of interest charged for your loan. Ideally a FTD can pay his school loans 5-7yrs after graduation if he maintains a simple lifestyle and his chief focus is to PAY THE LOANS. But most often it's hard and hence I would predict 10-15yrs under normal circumstances (if you have 200-250k)
Your income is NOT BAD. If you are doing 2-3 part time jobs/week you would end up making 90-95K in that year. If thats your starting salary, it's only going to get better right ?

3. Well since I'm married so my living expense are taken care of by my spouse so I just have loans of school tuition (which is 177k FYI) . I have federal loans so no problems there, but a couple of my classmates work during school breaks at school ER clinics and they end up earning $600-700. Most of them have an earning spouse. People who are single, live frugally and try to be as cost effective as possible by sharing apartments and living close to the schools.

ALSO, would like to give the option of doing a PG here instead of DDS. Some schools take FTD's for programs such as Oral medicine, oral pathology, Dental Biology even Perio. But in the long run you CANNOT cut a cavity or do a crown prep unlike INDIA where a periodontist even does endo without any qualms. Now your next question would be PLEASE tell me the names of the schools that accept FTD's as PG's and my answer would be - PLEASE research it yourself by going to each school website. It's too cumbersome as I'm a student myself and don't have time to do it for you , sorry

4. As compared to spending same amount of money in India for PG , THANK GOD i did NOT do so. I mean I'm getting wide exposure in my school itself. We use rubber dams for all procedures, administered nitrous oxide as sedation, I've done cast partial dentures, plenty of crowns, FPD's and am on my way to restore my implant crown. In endo I'm using rotary endodontics, apex locators and vertical condensation technique for obturation. I also get DITTO exposure of extractions that I got in India doing BDS. SO WHY THE HELL do I have to spend a fortune studying PG in India when I'm HAPPY doing quality work in general dentistry here ? I'm extremely happy with my school, although it charges a fortune (225-250k including living expenses), its worth every penny of it and it's the BEST investment career-wise that happened to me

BUT this thread is AWESOME, I'm glad that you're researching your options instead of jumping in blindly. My accolades for you 😉
I wish however people wouldn't discourage such questions here. It's important to KNOW all our options
Just make an informed decision. Hope things work out well for you

 

[ASPddsaspirant]

Hello,

BUT this thread is AWESOME, I'm glad that you're researching your options instead of jumping in blindly. My accolades for you 😉
I wish however people wouldn't discourage such questions here. It's important to KNOW all our options
Just make an informed decision. Hope things work out well for you

thank you for your wonderful reply !!

this was one of the most informative and reliable answers (due to personal experiences you cited)

I believe that we should research things on our own (use google/ADA/blogs etc) and so would never ask you basic questions like how to apply for PG etc. We must do things on our own.

Whenever someone raises this question about loan repayment - they are instantly shooted down.

1. after graduation starting salary is 150k (etc etc). Like now you mentioned 95k. there are sources such as ADA's website and blogs and plethora of sites in google that mention anywhere between 80k to 130k.

2. I don't have a green card, nor am i married and have a spouse there in USA, nor my extended family, nor am i filthy rich to say 200k is no big deal !!
Therefore i feel justified that this is a really big question and important one too

I hope experienced people would reply to this thread (personal experiences) and make this thread a really informative one ( LIKE Dentistree711 has done )👍

Rather than bashing me for being (non motivated/pessimistic/dampening the spirits up here) and saying SDN is depressing.
i hope an introspection here will only help us guys (BY BEING REALISTIC and making informed decisions) !!

P.S. And thankyou dentistree 711. I hope more people come up with good answers like you!!

 

[Periofav]

Hello,

Okay first thing first ALL the schools DO NOT cost you 200-250k. There are some cheaper ones such as BU, UMN etc.
I guess the West Coast Schools and NYU are the most expensive ones for the IDP.

1. Post DDS scenario is not too bad for people who DO NOT have green cards. You can work under OPT for a year after graduation and hopefully your hiring associate likes you enough by then to sponsor your visa. Ideally if you are looking forward to get "FULL TIME" job offers in hep and happening cities like NY, Boston , SF , LA just FORGET IT ! Even people who are citizens/green card holders are only able to find "PART TIME JOBS" immediately after graduation. We are advised to often do multiple part time jobs for the first couple years. Imagine you have a successful practice and you want an associate - this person happens to be a fresh graduate. Wouldn't you be justified to hire that person part-time to see how he gels with your staff and how he treat your patients ? That's why you end up getting part time jobs when u first graduate.
However, if you want to move into the country for e.g. in rural parts of US the jobs are better paying and more secure. BUT the closest mall and movie theatre would be only 1hr drive away
States like Alaska and Texas have a good pool of vacancies.
So it depends on what YOU want to do after you graduate.

2. As far as debt goes , AGAIN it depends on your circumstances on if you have a family to support/single, how soon you want to buy your practice, how "luxurious" life do you want to indulge in after graduation (e.g. how soon u want to buy your BMW and a house on the hilltop ) . BIG factor is if you are planning to do PG immediately after IDP your loans are going to add up. Other circumstantial things would be the rate of interest charged for your loan. Ideally a FTD can pay his school loans 5-7yrs after graduation if he maintains a simple lifestyle and his chief focus is to PAY THE LOANS. But most often it's hard and hence I would predict 10-15yrs under normal circumstances (if you have 200-250k)
Your income is NOT BAD. If you are doing 2-3 part time jobs/week you would end up making 90-95K in that year. If thats your starting salary, it's only going to get better right ?

3. Well since I'm married so my living expense are taken care of by my spouse so I just have loans of school tuition (which is 177k FYI) . I have federal loans so no problems there, but a couple of my classmates work during school breaks at school ER clinics and they end up earning $600-700. Most of them have an earning spouse. People who are single, live frugally and try to be as cost effective as possible by sharing apartments and living close to the schools.

ALSO, would like to give the option of doing a PG here instead of DDS. Some schools take FTD's for programs such as Oral medicine, oral pathology, Dental Biology even Perio. But in the long run you CANNOT cut a cavity or do a crown prep unlike INDIA where a periodontist even does endo without any qualms. Now your next question would be PLEASE tell me the names of the schools that accept FTD's as PG's and my answer would be - PLEASE research it yourself by going to each school website. It's too cumbersome as I'm a student myself and don't have time to do it for you , sorry

4. As compared to spending same amount of money in India for PG , THANK GOD i did NOT do so. I mean I'm getting wide exposure in my school itself. We use rubber dams for all procedures, administered nitrous oxide as sedation, I've done cast partial dentures, plenty of crowns, FPD's and am on my way to restore my implant crown. In endo I'm using rotary endodontics, apex locators and vertical condensation technique for obturation. I also get DITTO exposure of extractions that I got in India doing BDS. SO WHY THE HELL do I have to spend a fortune studying PG in India when I'm HAPPY doing quality work in general dentistry here ? I'm extremely happy with my school, although it charges a fortune (225-250k including living expenses), its worth every penny of it and it's the BEST investment career-wise that happened to me

BUT this thread is AWESOME, I'm glad that you're researching your options instead of jumping in blindly. My accolades for you 😉
I wish however people wouldn't discourage such questions here. It's important to KNOW all our options
Just make an informed decision. Hope things work out well for you

That was an excellent reply; Since you are a student here and since you have a very good idea of post DDS life, can you please answer this question for me- if I did a fellowship for an year in a decent university(in US), and then applied directly to masters(MDS) like perio or endo or anything that doesnot have DDS as a requirement, what do you think my chances of earning in the long term would be?

Does the earning of someone with a masters without DDS be the same as someone with a masters with DDS? The reason why I ask this is I am looking at an extended career span. I dont want to look back 10 years later and think "only if I had spent one or two years more in education, I would be much better off now!!!"...

And if I did this kind of fellowship+ MDS (without DDS), and if I set up my own practice a few years later, will I not be licensed/capable(like other DDS) of doing other stuff like onlays, crown prep or endo or dentures?

 

[Dentistree711]

That was an excellent reply; Since you are a student here and since you have a very good idea of post DDS life, can you please answer this question for me- if I did a fellowship for an year in a decent university(in US), and then applied directly to masters(MDS) like perio or endo or anything that doesnot have DDS as a requirement, what do you think my chances of earning in the long term would be?

Does the earning of someone with a masters without DDS be the same as someone with a masters with DDS? The reason why I ask this is I am looking at an extended career span. I dont want to look back 10 years later and think "only if I had spent one or two years more in education, I would be much better off now!!!"...

And if I did this kind of fellowship+ MDS (without DDS), and if I set up my own practice a few years later, will I not be licensed/capable(like other DDS) of doing other stuff like onlays, crown prep or endo or dentures?

Hi Periofav
Fellowship + Masters sounds like a plan 🙂
But please keep a few things in mind-

Unlike India, a periodontist CANNOT make dentures here. Looking at your profile name I'm guessing you want to do perio ? That's great, but u'll be stuck with doing perio surgeries and placing implants for the rest of your life.
Most of the specialists here do not practice gen dentistry (exceptions are there though). They are here to cater to the needs of gen. dentist. It's a symbiotic relationship. I'm an endodontist, refer me all the molar endo's then u (gen dentist) can do the crown.

Moreover doing specialization ONLY limits your movement across the USA. For e.g. hypothetically if you graduated as a Orthodontist from Rochester state University, NY and soon after graduation you figure out you need to move to California due to some reasons, you CANNOT practice in CA if you DO NOT have DDS. (yes that sucks ! trust me)
So then you have to apply for either state licensure or undergo an IDP program to get DDS and a license. So to answer your question, you can do DDS anytime here, even after doing a masters/PhD degree. Age no bar !

So if you end up doing M.S only, you have to stick around that state to practice. If your long term goal is to study here and use your knowledge in your home country , I think M.S works out well. But if you want to live in the US, in my opinion DDS is essential. The quality of work that I'm being taught here in terms of esthetic dentistry/instrumentation/infection control/4 handed dentistry is far superior than what I was taught in home country. (I don't want to be derogatory to my school in India bec. I did learn my basic skills there. The school did make me awesome in extraction and dentures. AND of course we did reasonably good dentistry in limited resources) Since population here are pretty demanding and extremely beauty conscious, I think doing esthetic work for some of them can be extremely challenging. So i don't know what your skill sets are, it depends on how good of a dentist you are.

Money-wise M.S costs less (50 grand a year) and they give you stipends too and on graduation you earn well, depending on how your practice goes. But you may have to invest 3 yrs in getting a degree
Hope that answers your question

 

[Cluelesssoul]

Seriously dude this is a thread for ppl wanting to do dds....there are highly motivated and hard working ppl here who dont give a damm abt some ppl saying dds is a waste of money and u shd not go for it....there are many ppl on sdn who themselves tried but were not able to go for dds and then try to discourage ppl who try by sayin negative things...
And btw what guarantee u have tat after doing mds u will be successful and will earn a lot after 3 yrs of study in india....
So there is no one in this world who can predict what will happen after 2yrs ...being successful is up to u...
so stop listening to idiots who discourage others and do wat u think is correct

All the best

Hello sir.

I am a 22 yo female graduated last month with BDS degree from a reputed dental college in mangalore with a decent score.
I was planning on writing the neet exams in jan 2018 for mds.
But now I have a proposal from an engg in the US and so I am really confused about if there is scope and hope for me in the US and how to go about it.
I am very determined to crack the nbde.
Also someone suggested i do MPH and this has got me more confused.
Kindly please guide me.
Thank you so much.

 

[Cluelesssoul]

Hello sir.
Your experience has motivated and inspired me. Thank you.
I am a 22 yo female graduated last month with BDS degree from a reputed dental college in mangalore with a decent score.
I was planning on writing the neet exams in jan 2018 for mds.
But now I have a proposal from an engg in the US and so I am really confused about if there is scope and hope for me in the US and how to go about it.
I am very determined to crack the nbde.
Also someone suggested i do MPH and this has got me more confused.
Kindly please guide me.
Thank you so much.

 

[Cluelesssoul]

thank you for your wonderful reply !!

this was one of the most informative and reliable answers (due to personal experiences you cited)

I believe that we should research things on our own (use google/ADA/blogs etc) and so would never ask you basic questions like how to apply for PG etc. We must do things on our own.

Whenever someone raises this question about loan repayment - they are instantly shooted down.

1. after graduation starting salary is 150k (etc etc). Like now you mentioned 95k. there are sources such as ADA's website and blogs and plethora of sites in google that mention anywhere between 80k to 130k.

2. I don't have a green card, nor am i married and have a spouse there in USA, nor my extended family, nor am i filthy rich to say 200k is no big deal !!
Therefore i feel justified that this is a really big question and important one too

I hope experienced people would reply to this thread (personal experiences) and make this thread a really informative one ( LIKE Dentistree711 has done )👍

Rather than bashing me for being (non motivated/pessimistic/dampening the spirits up here) and saying SDN is depressing.
i hope an introspection here will only help us guys (BY BEING REALISTIC and making informed decisions) !!

P.S. And thankyou dentistree 711. I hope more people come up with good answers like you!!

Hello sir.
Your experience has motivated and inspired me. Thank you.
I am a 22 yo female graduated last month with BDS degree from a reputed dental college in mangalore with a decent score.
I was planning on writing the neet exams in jan 2018 for mds.
But now I have a proposal from an engg in the US and so I am really confused about if there is scope and hope for me in the US and how to go about it.
I am very determined to crack the nbde.
Also someone suggested i do MPH and this has got me more confused.
Kindly please guide me.
Thank you so much.

 

[Cluelesssoul]

Hello sir.
Your experience has motivated and inspired me. Thank you.
I am a 22 yo female graduated last month with BDS degree from a reputed dental college in mangalore with a decent score.
I was planning on writing the neet exams in jan 2018 for mds.
But now I have a proposal from an engg in the US and so I am really confused about if there is scope and hope for me in the US and how to go about it.
I am very determined to crack the nbde.
Also someone suggested i do MPH and this has got me more confused.
Kindly please guide me.
Thank you so much.

i am hearing about a lot of negative feedbacks about doing dds .
Doing an MDS is a good option but its never internationally accepted !!!!!!!
If you want to practise in any place other than india doing dds would be the best option

but it all depends on how much you are motivated for it !!

QUOTE=ASPddsaspirant;11845594]Thanks for the reply.

MDS in india in a government school wouldn't cost much. Infact the income and expenditure balance them out. So there's no strain while studying MDS and we are financially free(i'm not referring to private colleges) But while we come out of DDS we're 1 crore in debt. This was what i was alluding to.

The hard work part is one. The financial part is another. I was hoping experienced people would come forward and answer regarding :
1. how tough are post DDS scenario for a non green card holder
2. how much years would it be once we become financially free/ debt free?
3. the cost factor. the experiences of FTD dentists working there and students/once who are going into the programme. how are you tackling the fees?

P.S. : agreed attitude is a big thing. But it would be foolhardy to say debt/fees is not a problem. it is definitely a huge factor. One can't give hard work and motivation in exchange for the fees !! So practical and realistic experiences are welcome.

[/QUOTE]






Hello sir.
Your experience has motivated and inspired me. Thank you.
I am a 22 yo female graduated last month with BDS degree from a reputed dental college in mangalore with a decent score.
I was planning on writing the neet exams in jan 2018 for mds.
But now I have a proposal from an engg in the US and so I am really confused about if there is scope and hope for me in the US and how to go about it.
I am very determined to crack the nbde.
Also someone suggested i do MPH and this has got me more confused.
Kindly please guide me.
Thank you so much.

 

[oralcare123]

Seriously, 4 times?