Is it Worth the Risk?

[Strauss6868]

First off, I must admit that I am a perfect example of a non-traditonal student. I began my university studies in 2002, and I did not finish until May of 2010. The reason for my hiatus was that I became very ill for several years (I am not mentioning the illness for privacy reasons). During that period, I was unable to attend school, and I was barely able to work. Luckily, I was able to work part time for a family run business. Otherwise, I would not of had anything in my life.

Prior to my illness, I was a psychology major. After recovering from sickness and working for my Uncle, I went back to school and changed my major to business-management. I am proud to say that I finished my B.B.A with a 3.8. The problem I have now is due to the recession. In other words, I can not find work. I have been out of work since I graduated from my school, and the "time off" has given me a lot of time to think about my life and where I want to go with it.

When I started college as a psychology major, I had the intention of attending medical school one day. After a major bout with illness, I became disillusioned with the hospital setting. The "bad taste" I experienced in the hospital coupled with the time I worked for my uncle enticed me in my second stint at college to switch my major to business.

I am again at a crossroads in my life. Although I have excelled in my business studies, I believe that one has to be true to their own interest and character. In other words, I want to become a doctor.

This is where my dilemma starts. Prior to MCAT study, I will need to return to school to take the required science courses (Physics, Chemistry, etc.). I need these courses for both entrance requirements and general knowledge for the MCAT. I have always been a good science student, so I am positive I will do well in those courses: however, taking all those courses will "eat up" a lot of time in my career that I am behind in already.

I understand that there aren't any guarantees in life, but as a business minded person, I need to make the best educated decision in an uncertain world.

What if I take all the courses, study for the MCAT, and don't get into a Medical School?

At this point in life, this negative side of this questions can turn into a major blunder for me. I understand that getting into a medical school isn't a "cakewalk," but I want to see, if people think my vision of becoming a doctor is a "pipe dream."

I think this is enough for a first post. I can further elaborate on my situation in future posts. I would like to thank anyone who takes the time to read my post, and again thank everyone in advance for any help/advice/insight I receive.

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[FrkyBgStok]

that is a good question and we can't really tell you the answer. you need to figure that one out yourself. you need to have the confidence to make it if you decide you want to. shadow a doctor, get some health care experience, do anything to see the real side of medicine and if it is something you really want. then you will be able to make a better decision. read about what the process entails and see if it is something you can deal with. i tried to walk away but kept finding my way back so i finally accepted that it is what i really want to do, so i need to do it whatever the cost. i wish you luck.

 

[n3xa]

Volunteer at the hospital, shadow a few doctors, ask lots of questions, and ask yourself if it's worth the risk. And good luck to you.

 

[fizzgig]

i tried to walk away but kept finding my way back so i finally accepted that it is what i really want to do, so i need to do it whatever the cost. i wish you luck.

i kinda had this experience too - i am already training for something else that i find technically interesting and challenging, so if i COULD put it to bed, i wanted to try, so that i would be sure. i couldn't, so here i am. start doing the background legwork (shadowing and volunteering, researching what you'll need/how long to do it), and hopefully that will help make things clearer for you.

 

[TriagePreMed]

however, taking all those courses will "eat up" a lot of time in my career that I am behind in already.

I understand that there aren't any guarantees in life, but as a business minded person, I need to make the best educated decision in an uncertain world.

What if I take all the courses, study for the MCAT, and don't get into a Medical School?

What career is that? Unemployment? Take classes now and if you land a job that you think is worth more, switch to that.

Yes, you could do everything right and get rejected everywhere. That's how the system works. I doubt anyone here has a combination of words to convince you one way or another.

 

[Fay8]

Hey Strauss,

I agree with a lot of the other comments, that you have to answer this question for yourself. In the meantime, what do you have to lose by taking courses? If money is an issue, work for a university and take classes gratis. Also, make sure that you shadow doctors and get clinical experience. This exposure will help you recalibrate your vision of what it means to be a doctor. (the ugly stuff: long hours, low reimbursement, non compliant patients)

During undergraduate, I also got sick with a chronic illness. It was a motivating force, but it has been double-edged. Medical school is hard and medical school + health problem is even worse. I don't know the nature of your illness, but make sure you take care of yourself and know your limitations.

I'm going to apply this summer to medical school. For me, the question was: Will I regret if I don't try?

Out of curiosity, have you considered other options like PA school?

Best of luck,

Fay

 

[WellWornLad]

As others have said, it sounds like the only thing you risk losing by starting pre-reqs is money. That said, you don't have a very convincing pitch for why you want to do medicine. Here are the major points that I gathered from your post:

1) You're a "business-minded person" and your biggest problem right now is that you're unemployed.

1a) I get the impression that you wouldn't even be thinking about medicine if you had a job.

2) After being exposed to medicine in the past, you decided not to pursue it.

3) ???

4) You want to be a doctor because it is "true to your own interest and character."

So something's missing between 2) and 4). If you're as smart as you say you are, aren't terribly frightening or awkward to have a conversation with, and come up with a better pitch, you've got a good chance of getting in. Based on your post, I'm just not sure why you'd want to put yourself through all that. I'm not even in residency and I get exhausted thinking about all the crap I've had to do so far. And I like hospitals.

 

[Scottish Chap]

What if I take all the courses, study for the MCAT, and don't get into a Medical School?

This is a fear many people have. There is no guarantee you will be accepted. As long as you accept this fact now, nothing should hold you back. Your GPA is great. Good test takers tend to stay good test takers. You will have your confidence shaken eventually, however. If not applying, definitely in medical school or residency. It will happen. For me, it was MSI. For some friends, it was MSII. For others, it's residency. I think fear of failure is a terrible reason to avoid a medical career. If you know this path is for you, don't give up. Apply M.D., D.O., and overseas if you have to.

P.S. Read the blog of this young man - non-traditional medical student. It's heart-breaking. He has probably felt everything that every medical student will ever feel, and he's got more heart than most:
http://4medschool.blogspot.com/

 

[Eik Ooc]

P.S. Read the blog of this young man - non-traditional medical student. It's heart-breaking. He has probably felt everything that every medical student will ever feel, and he's got more heart than most:
http://4medschool.blogspot.com/

Oh Damn. I remember reading him two years ago when I first decided to go back to school.

Jonathan,

If you're reading this...I was rooting for you. Thank you for sharing your journey with us. I look forward to reading about your next steps.

 

[Strauss6868]

As others have said, it sounds like the only thing you risk losing by starting pre-reqs is money. That said, you don't have a very convincing pitch for why you want to do medicine. Here are the major points that I gathered from your post:

1) You're a "business-minded person" and your biggest problem right now is that you're unemployed.

1a) I get the impression that you wouldn't even be thinking about medicine if you had a job.

2) After being exposed to medicine in the past, you decided not to pursue it.

3) ???

4) You want to be a doctor because it is "true to your own interest and character."

So something's missing between 2) and 4). If you're as smart as you say you are, aren't terribly frightening or awkward to have a conversation with, and come up with a better pitch, you've got a good chance of getting in. Based on your post, I'm just not sure why you'd want to put yourself through all that. I'm not even in residency and I get exhausted thinking about all the crap I've had to do so far. And I like hospitals.

I stated in the last part of my first post that I would most likely have to elaborate further on my situation. It appears that this is the reply to start with.

1) When I said that I am a business minded person, I meant that I am logical thinker. In other words, I attempt to not make decisions on a basis that is mainly emotional. I have a need to meticulously weigh the benefits and consequences of my actions. Returning to school in hopes of getting into medical school may have huge returns or turn into a huge bust.

1a) I neither said nor implied that I was only thinking of a medical career because I was unemployed. Rather, I am saying that I have been able to gain perspective on my life since I've had time to think.

2) I was in a hospital setting far different than the average med-school hopeful who is volunteering somewhere to pad a resume. The experience I had in the hospital is something I will not soon forget; however, I know feel that if I became a doctor, I could make the situation better for those I care for due to my history in a hospital setting.

*3) I will attempt to bridge the gap between point 2 and point 4 in this section. From an early age, I wanted to become a doctor. I always had a knack for science and a concurrent thirst for scientific inquiry. Call it an "inquisitive mind," if you will. I understand that a dream of becoming a certain profession is not enough. How many young children wanted to play in the NHL, become a fireman, etc.? I, however, know that this dream is of a far more mature level. I always perceived a career as a doctor would be fascinating. Working in a fast pace, ever changing, and dynamic environment of a medical doctor is something that will stimulate me throughout my career.

4) Yes, I also want to become doctor because it is true to my own identity. Even though I excelled in my business curriculum, I now have doubts if this is the career path for me. Although I like the competitive nature of B-school and the careers that come from that track, I would rather helps others than peddle goods and climb a corporate ladder. My mother always said that you can't just do something your good at for the money. You have to do something you like as well or you won't be satisfied. She is correct.

I have overcome my distaste for the hospital setting, and I am ready to follow my own "compass." Although it may set me back in terms of time, it appears that I should follow my true dream.

The question is where to I go from here?

 

[WellWornLad]

The question is where to I go from here?

That's easy. Start your pre-reqs. If you're concerned about time, pre-reqs are the major bottleneck in this process for you. If you're concerned about the cost, find a cheap program (e.g., Harvard Extension School, local CC) or find a job at a university who will provide tuition remission.

 

[lsu hopeful]

To answer the question of what do you do if you do all of that and don't get accepted into Med School, gauge your interest in re-taking your MCAT, taking a few more classes to up your GPA, more shadowing/volunteering, and applying again. Showing that you're committed to making it and being a doctor makes a difference.

On the other hand, there are other paths you could go down if you reach that point and would prefer to move on, such as PA school and nursing. PA pre-reqs are very similar and you'll have to take the GRE, but it's an option.

I wish you the best in your journey.

 

[TriagePreMed]

1) When I said that I am a business minded person, I meant that I am logical thinker. In other words, I attempt to not make decisions on a basis that is mainly emotional. I have a need to meticulously weigh the benefits and consequences of my actions. Returning to school in hopes of getting into medical school may have huge returns or turn into a huge bust.

Good you clarified. Most business majors that I know are brown nosers and "yes" men/women, so I was sort of confused what you meant by business minded.

Just poking some fun. Don't be mad.

 

[Strauss6868]

Good you clarified. Most business majors that I know are brown nosers and "yes" men/women, so I was sort of confused what you meant by business minded.

Just poking some fun. Don't be mad.

I just wanted to clarify what I meant by "business minded."

I also agree with your statement about brown-nosing businessmen, and that is a major deterrent for me in that career path.

 

[gman33]

You have two questions to answer.
1. Will you be able to get into med school?
2. Is this the right path for you?

For the first question, what are your current overall and science gpas?
If both are 3.5+ you are in reasonable shape.
No reason you can't do well in science prereqs if you've done well in school in the past.
Do some searches about admissions/MCAT etc. You will find strategies to do well that will help you along the way.

For the second question, do some shadowing, volunteering, etc.
Talk to doctors and med students, try to figure out what you are in for.
I still question my decision from time to time. You will too if you go down this path. All you can do is gather info and make the best decision you can.

I left behind a good career to do prereqs full-time for no guarantee that I would ever get into med school. If you want it, you just have to get started. You can do it part-time while working if you are not sure. No harm in taking a few science classes and volunteering at a hospital. That's what I did for about a year until I really made my mind up.

 

[Strauss6868]

You have two questions to answer.
1. Will you be able to get into med school?
2. Is this the right path for you?

For the first question, what are your current overall and science gpas?
If both are 3.5+ you are in reasonable shape.
No reason you can't do well in science prereqs if you've done well in school in the past.
Do some searches about admissions/MCAT etc. You will find strategies to do well that will help you along the way.

For the second question, do some shadowing, volunteering, etc.
Talk to doctors and med students, try to figure out what you are in for.
I still question my decision from time to time. You will too if you go down this path. All you can do is gather info and make the best decision you can.

I left behind a good career to do prereqs full-time for no guarantee that I would ever get into med school. If you want it, you just have to get started. You can do it part-time while working if you are not sure. No harm in taking a few science classes and volunteering at a hospital. That's what I did for about a year until I really made my mind up.

My overall GPA is 3.8; however, I have taken limited sciences. Since I was a business major in college in my second tour of duty, I focused on the core business curriculum. I was a very good science student in high school, and I have retained the scientific/inquisitive personality, yet I do not have a current "measuring stick" in terms of recent ability in those types of courses.

Except for two (2) Bio classes I took a while back, I need take several other required science courses. I need to take Physics 1+2, Chemistry 1+2, Organic Chemistry 1+2, and I may take one or two more Bios because I haven't taken that subject in a long time.

I was looking at the physics courses at a local school, and I am confused. Among other courses, the college offers two version of the core physics courses. One requires Calculus while the other requires only pre-calc. I have taken both pre-calc and calculus 1, so the pre requisites are not a problem. My question regards whether the calculus based physics course is overkill or necessary for my needs?

Also, I applaud you for being so brave and taking the plunge to start a new career. I hope I can do the same.

 

[mauberley]

I was looking at the physics courses at a local school, and I am confused. Among other courses, the college offers two version of the core physics courses. One requires Calculus while the other requires only pre-calc. I have taken both pre-calc and calculus 1, so the pre requisites are not a problem. My question regards whether the calculus based physics course is overkill or necessary for my needs?

Either would suit your needs. Physics makes more sense to me with calculus, but if you're content with memorizing formulas and plug 'n' chug, then algebra-based physics will be fine.

 

[n3xa]

Either would suit your needs. Physics makes more sense to me with calculus, but if you're content with memorizing formulas and plug 'n' chug, then algebra-based physics will be fine.

Calc-based was also a nice breath of fresh air since it was filled with engineering+physics majors.

(I took both series. Looong story. Don't ask. )

 

[Strauss6868]

Either would suit your needs. Physics makes more sense to me with calculus, but if you're content with memorizing formulas and plug 'n' chug, then algebra-based physics will be fine.

I figured that the curriculum is similar between the two. I wanted to make sure I would not be at a disadvantage in terms of the MCAT and Med School.

 

[Strauss6868]

Calc-based was also a nice breath of fresh air since it was filled with engineering+physics majors.

(I took both series. Looong story. Don't ask. )

If I might ask, what type of students were in the non-calc version.

 

[ygree001]

Besides the risk of you not getting accepted, there is something else I would consider. Even if you do get in, does it make sense for you as a career? I don't know your age and financial situation, but do a little bit of number crunching. Debt loads are getting higher and higher, and it is not unreasonable for students to graduate with ~300k in debt. If you are older, already in debt, etc this may not be possible for you. Not everyone gets into a state school. I'm not saying not to go for it, but make sure you know what you are getting into and are prepared for it.

 

[mauberley]

If I might ask, what type of students were in the non-calc version.

Most likely premeds.

 

[mauberley]

Calc-based was also a nice breath of fresh air since it was filled with engineering+physics majors.

(I took both series. Looong story. Don't ask. )

woohoo engineering majors!!!! I miss undergrad now.

I figured that the curriculum is similar between the two. I wanted to make sure I would not be at a disadvantage in terms of the MCAT and Med School.

You won't. The extent of physics testing on the MCAT is being able to recognize the appropriate formula and applying it. Med schools don't discriminate between an algebra-based physics class and a calc-based physics class as far as fulfilling prerequisites or giving weight in an application.

 

[n3xa]

If I might ask, what type of students were in the non-calc version.

Most likely premeds.

This. Actually I went to a commuter school for undergrad, so there was a good number of post-bacc (career changers) pre-meds. And a good number of them were always complaining about how awful these classes are and how they can't wait to study medicine and omgwhatgradedidyouget?!?!?!

woohoo engineering majors!!!! I miss undergrad now.

Wooooo! I wasn't an engineering major, though. I just dated them.

 

[Strauss6868]

Since I haven't taken a bio class in some time, I will need to take at least one class to brush up on the material. Which classes are best to take in terms of being prepared for the MCAT, being prepared for the med-school curriculum, and looking good on the application.

In my first stint in college, I took Bio 101 (General Biology), but I will need more than that class for both requirements and material for the test. I have been looking at the gen-ed requirements for a bunch of school, and most of the requirements appear to be fairly similar. In terms of the biology requirement, is it better to take anatomy and physiology I and II, should I take general bio I and II? I am not sure which class I should take because the requirements on the school's webpages only state that two (2) classes are needed; however, the websites do not state which classes to choose.

Also, besides the bio, chem, bio chem, and physics courses, are there any other classes that I should add to my schedule?

 

[Strauss6868]

Taking an entire bio sequence for the MCAT once you've taken those classes will be a waste of your time. Buy some review books (berkeley review/exam krackers/other) and learn from it that way. Biology is mainly memorization.

I do not want to overload myself with extra work; however, I haven't taken a bio class in over 8 years, so I probably am raw in the subject. If I were going to take another bio course, should I take anatomy and physiology course, or should I take a generic bio course?

 

[TriagePreMed]

I do not want to overload myself with extra work; however, I haven't taken a bio class in over 8 years, so I probably am raw in the subject. If I were going to take another bio course, should I take anatomy and physiology course, or should I take a generic bio course?

I took biology for a year in high school back in 98 or 99. I got a passing grade because my teacher would pass anyone that attended class. Fast forward to 2010. I studied the bio on my own with exam krackers material. After 3-4 months, I was scoring 12-13 on practice bio section of the MCAT. So I assure you it's doable.

 

[WellWornLad]

Since I haven't taken a bio class in some time, I will need to take at least one class to brush up on the material. Which classes are best to take in terms of being prepared for the MCAT, being prepared for the med-school curriculum, and looking good on the application.

Besides Intro Biology I & II, microbiology and genetics are often helpful. The former is actually required by a handful of schools.

In terms of the biology requirement, is it better to take anatomy and physiology I and II, should I take general bio I and II?

General bio I and II. A&P is fine if you want to try to get a leg up on anatomy in med school, but it won't help you terribly in getting into med school. If you've already taken Bio I (with lab) and are confident that you're a good student, I'd just skip to bio II if I were you.

Also, besides the bio, chem, bio chem, and physics courses, are there any other classes that I should add to my schedule?

Biochem is not a requirement. You need 2 semesters of inorganic chemistry, 2 semesters of organic chemistry, 2 semesters of biology, and 2 semesters of physics, all with lab components. Many schools require 2 semesters of English/expository writing, and a few require some calculus.

Just understand a couple things before you start:

a) When you apply to med school, your science GPA will be calculated separately from your total GPA because how you do in science courses is important to adcoms (admissions committees).

b) You can't ever erase a bad grade. Even if you retake a class, the prior D or F will be visible to adcoms and will be used to calculate the cumulative and science GPAs that adcoms see on your application.

c) Don't forget the lab sections, they are required.

d) It's always a good idea to check with AMCAS or your educational institution that the classes you're taking are acceptable as pre-reqs.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Biochem is not a requirement.

Careful there. A lot of schools in California have it as a requirement and so do others out of state. It would be wise to make a list of potential schools to apply to and their requirements.

 

[MCAT guy]

I always want to help out, but these posts are TLDR.

 

[Strauss6868]

Besides Intro Biology I & II, microbiology and genetics are often helpful. The former is actually required by a handful of schools.

General bio I and II. A&P is fine if you want to try to get a leg up on anatomy in med school, but it won't help you terribly in getting into med school. If you've already taken Bio I (with lab) and are confident that you're a good student, I'd just skip to bio II if I were you.

I went to the AAMC/MCAT website to learn more about the test. I downloaded the PDFs concerning the four sections of the test. As far as the biology section is concerned, it seems to me that there is a lot of material covering topics in anatomy and physiology. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't general biology offer a holistic view to the subject whereas a&p covers material that is more likely on the MCAT?

In other words, are topics outside of anatomy & physiology such as other forms of life (plants, fungi, single-celled organisms, etc.) common?

I guess each bio class is different, but it appears that the school I am looking into offers general bio classes with a holistic approach to the subject.

 

[WellWornLad]

As far as the biology section is concerned, it seems to me that there is a lot of material covering topics in anatomy and physiology. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't general biology offer a holistic view to the subject whereas a&p covers material that is more likely on the MCAT?

Not in my experience. However, the bio I & II classes that I took were more or less designed around the MCAT. Many schools design them this way as pre-meds are usually more numerous than outright bio majors.

A&P can reinforce some topics in bio, but you're just not going to see the same focus on the MCAT. You might have to know about surfactant in the lung for example (bio II), but you're not going to have to calculate the amount of dead space (physiology), and your definitely not going to have to identify the superior lingual segment (anatomy).

And that's quite right about biochem, it's not a universal requirement but one of those school-specific ones. There are probably other strange requirements for individual schools (foreign language?).

I guess each bio class is different, but it appears that the school I am looking into offers general bio classes with a holistic approach to the subject.

You might want to contact their pre-med office (if they have one) and ask what they recommend taking at their school. There are bio classes out there that go way off into directions you don't need ("today we're going to talk about pachyderms!").

Also, if you have to do all your pre-reqs it might pay to look into a structured post-bac program. You can certainly do everything yourself if you are careful, but if you're looking for a little guidance these programs have basically figured out everything for you. I can personally recommend the Harvard Health Careers Program. It's cheap (~$800-900 per class, lab included), flexible (night classes so you can work), the classes are quality and geared towards the MCAT, and they offer the possibility of a committee letter if you do well enough in classes and on the MCAT. Other programs are available at many major universities, although they tend to be more expensive and require more hand-holding.

 

[Strauss6868]

I did not know that there are post-baccalaureate pre-health programs. I googled a few school that offer the program in my area, and they seem to fit my needs. Not only do they offer all the required courses, but also an environment with older students which will be a better learning experience than taking undergrad classes. Thanks you for the advice.

 

[TriagePreMed]

I did not know that there are post-baccalaureate pre-health programs. I googled a few school that offer the program in my area, and they seem to fit my needs. Not only do they offer all the required courses, but also an environment with older students which will be a better learning experience than taking undergrad classes. Thanks you for the advice.

These programs usually cost an arm and a leg, so if it isn't cheaper than doing it independently, I'd say forget it.

As for another question you posted. I took Anatomy as a single course and didn't help me at all with MCAT material. Maybe Physiology will be better for you.

 

[LaurenMCAT]

that is a good question and we can't really tell you the answer. you need to figure that one out yourself. you need to have the confidence to make it if you decide you want to. shadow a doctor, get some health care experience, do anything to see the real side of medicine and if it is something you really want. then you will be able to make a better decision. read about what the process entails and see if it is something you can deal with. i tried to walk away but kept finding my way back so i finally accepted that it is what i really want to do, so i need to do it whatever the cost. i wish you luck.

I second FrkyBgStok's post.

---> Do a gut check. How much do you really want this? Seriously, don't try for medical school if there is anything else in the world that you'd be happier or as happy doing. Seriously.

I, too, am/was a non-traditional student and at some point, I realized that I am going to go to medical school if I have to apply over and over AND OVER again. (Like Abraham Lincoln in politics!) I was going to do whatever it takes (within legal limits) to become a doctor because I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that this was my future. (I also knew that I had a pretty good shot at it because of my aptitude in a medically-related field that I enjoyed and quickly excelled in.)

First, give yourself an opportunity to be financially smart...get that job...then get involved in volunteering and shadowing opportunities where you can interact professional with all members of the medical team (your past experiences as a patient are much different, I assume).

You may find that you actually like the Physician Assistant life much better! (Or another medical career.)

Good luck to you!

(And make sure to have fun while you're at it. Very little is worth doing if it makes you eternally miserable.)

 

[LaurenMCAT]

I did not know that there are post-baccalaureate pre-health programs. I googled a few school that offer the program in my area, and they seem to fit my needs. Not only do they offer all the required courses, but also an environment with older students which will be a better learning experience than taking undergrad classes. Thanks you for the advice.

Strauss, go here to find an exhaustive list of post-bac pre-med programs:
http://services.aamc.org/postbac/index.cfm
(website may be unavailable until 1/3 due to system upgrades)

Financially speaking, many of these programs are at private universities and cost a LOT of money. Because I was self-supporting (financially) when I was looking for programs, I chose the Health Careers Program at Harvard Extension School in Cambridge, Massachusetts that offered reasonably-priced evening classes, allowing me to work during the day. (I'm from CA and enjoyed living on the East Coast for awhile!)

The only thing about HCP at Harvard: they don't hold your hand and coddle you like they might at the private schools. You have to be your own cheerleader and come in with good self-motivation.

I took ALL the required pre-med courses in this order:
Fall semester #1: bio 1, gen chem 1, physics 1
Spring semester #1: bio 2, gen chem 2, physics 2
Fall semester #2: biochem (req'd by only a few schools), o chem 1
Spring semester #2: o chem 2
Three classes at once is pretty intense and I don't recommend it at Harvard. The traditional method is Bio & Gen Chem first year, Physics & O Chem second year, then the MCAT. They have AWESOME advanced science classes like biochem & genetics.

Good for you for trying to gather as much info as you can.

 

[Strauss6868]

I second FrkyBgStok's post.

---> Do a gut check. How much do you really want this? Seriously, don't try for medical school if there is anything else in the world that you'd be happier or as happy doing. Seriously.

There isn't.

Strauss, go here to find an exhaustive list of post-bac pre-med programs:
http://services.aamc.org/postbac/index.cfm
(website may be unavailable until 1/3 due to system upgrades)

Financially speaking, many of these programs are at private universities and cost a LOT of money. Because I was self-supporting (financially) when I was looking for programs, I chose the Health Careers Program at Harvard Extension School in Cambridge, Massachusetts that offered reasonably-priced evening classes, allowing me to work during the day. (I'm from CA and enjoyed living on the East Coast for awhile!)

The only thing about HCP at Harvard: they don't hold your hand and coddle you like they might at the private schools. You have to be your own cheerleader and come in with good self-motivation.

I took ALL the required pre-med courses in this order:
Fall semester #1: bio 1, gen chem 1, physics 1
Spring semester #1: bio 2, gen chem 2, physics 2
Fall semester #2: biochem (req'd by only a few schools), o chem 1
Spring semester #2: o chem 2
Three classes at once is pretty intense and I don't recommend it at Harvard. The traditional method is Bio & Gen Chem first year, Physics & O Chem second year, then the MCAT. They have AWESOME advanced science classes like biochem & genetics.

Good for you for trying to gather as much info as you can.

I also tried looking at the AAMC site for the pre-health programs, but it was down when I checked. I will have to wait until Monday.

As far as the pre-health program you attended is concerned, did the program offer other opportunities besides coursework? In other words, were you able to develop a better relationship with your professors than taking under-grad courses outside of the program? Did the program offer internships and other experience related programs to chooser from? Did the program offer an accelerated version?

 

[WellWornLad]

As far as the pre-health program you attended is concerned, did the program offer other opportunities besides coursework? In other words, were you able to develop a better relationship with your professors than taking under-grad courses outside of the program? Did the program offer internships and other experience related programs to chooser from? Did the program offer an accelerated version?

I went to the same program (Harvard HCP). It is smaller and less structured than other programs, which is part of why I chose it. If you're looking for a program that's going to structure everything and find internships/volunteer experiences for you, then Columbia or a similar program might be more up your alley. I think you'd be crazy to go that route, considering you're looking at $30,000/year for 2 years compared to Harvard's $3,200-4,800/year, but whatever floats your boat. I applied to both, and I got nervous as soon as I opened up Columbia's welcome packet - lists of dates and mandatory pre-orientation meetings, placement exams, clinical hour requirements, and that HUGE bill. Harvard just sent me a letter saying essentially "Congrats, you're in. Here's where you sign up for classes. Let us know if you need anything." I respected that greatly.

Also keep in mind that some (most?) post-bacs put you in with their undergrad class, so you'll be competing with undergrad pre-meds for the affections of your professors. It'll also be harder to hold a job since you'll be having class during the day.

If you're really, really interested in an accelerated program, look into Bryn Mwar, they have a well-regarded and very intense one-year program. I believe it's somewhat competitive to get into, however. Alternatively, you could do it in one year yourself by tripling up 1st and 2nd semester and finishing orgo over the summer - however, if you do this at Harvard it'll cost $8000 over the summer as you have to take it through the undergrad summer school and pay regular rates.

I guess a school can help in finding volunteer opportunities/clinical experiences and whatnot, but come on. It's Boston. There are so many universities and hospitals here that you'd have to be actively trying to avoid clinical experiences not to have some here.

I guess I should say at this point that I don't work for Harvard. I was just genuinely thrilled with the program all around, it was one of these rare moments in life where you're waiting for the catch and it never comes.

 

[Helen Wheels]

What if I take all the courses, study for the MCAT, and don't get into a Medical School?

I took my pre-reqs from 1999-2003 and, after a long and convoluted path, have been accepted to start med school this fall. Back in 1999, when I registered for my first post-bac science class I had this same thought - what if I do all this work and spend all this money completing 8 semesters of science courses and then don't get in to med school? I ended up deciding that education was worthwhile for its own sake and it didn't matter. Maybe a little naive but hey, whatever gets you through...

 

[Strauss6868]

I have been looking at post-baccalaureate pre-health programs in my area. Not all of the websites provide the costs that are involved, but a few of the school are surprisingly expensive. Through my research, I came along StonyBrook's post-baccalaureate pre-health program. I know the school has a very good reputation for the sciences, but the website's limited information didn't give me enough of an impression to make a decision about the program.

Does anyone from the NY area have any experience with the StonyBrook program?

Is there a place besides the school's website to find out more information?

 

[WellWornLad]

I have been looking at post-baccalaureate pre-health programs in my area. Not all of the websites provide the costs that are involved, but a few of the school are surprisingly expensive. Through my research, I came along StonyBrook's post-baccalaureate pre-health program. I know the school has a very good reputation for the sciences, but the website's limited information didn't give me enough of an impression to make a decision about the program.

Does anyone from the NY area have any experience with the StonyBrook program?

Is there a place besides the school's website to find out more information?

The vast majority of schools charge post-bac courses at the same rate as undergrad. Some charge you as a grad student. You can call and find out, but this page should give you a good idea of the range of costs at Stony Brook.

http://www.stonybrook.edu/bursar/tuition/

 

[mauberley]

Is there a place besides the school's website to find out more information?

Do a search through the Postbaccalaureate Programs forum for more info on Stony Brook (and any other program you might be interested in).

 

[Strauss6868]

Do a search through the Postbaccalaureate Programs forum for more info on Stony Brook (and any other program you might be interested in).

I figured this site would have something for those types of programs, but I didn't know what thread to look under.

Thanks.

 

[Strauss6868]

The vast majority of schools charge post-bac courses at the same rate as undergrad. Some charge you as a grad student. You can call and find out, but this page should give you a good idea of the range of costs at Stony Brook.

http://www.stonybrook.edu/bursar/tuition/

Wow, I am very impressed with StonyBrook's tuition fees! If the fees for the post-baccalaureate program are indeed similar to the regular undergrad and grad fees, the university appears to be a great buy. Some of the other school I looked at are very expensive, so this makes me a little less worried.

 

[LaurenMCAT]

Strauss - I love that you're doing your own "investigative research" on these programs before choosing one!

Re: Harvard's program, I second everything WellWornLad said. The cool thing is that there is now a functional student organization there called Harvard Extension Pre-Health Society that is a great resource for the post-bac kids. They send out lots of announcements re: internship & research position openings! See their website here: http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/heps/

Re: past students' success at Stony Brook, why don't you call their office and ask to be connected to any current students or recent alums who wouldn't mind chatting with you? (If you want more feedback than you can find in the post-bac forum.) I fielded those questions at Harvard. Our program director sent inquisitive kids my way

And BTW, I'm glad to hear that you are truly committed to medicine as a future career. On those late nights when you're slogging through light & optics and drawing all sorts of rays which way and that way, don't forget the point of it all. Jump through these pre-med hoops and show the admissions committees how you did it with grace AND style! Woo hoo!

 

[Strauss6868]

Strauss - I love that you're doing your own "investigative research" on these programs before choosing one!

Re: Harvard's program, I second everything WellWornLad said. The cool thing is that there is now a functional student organization there called Harvard Extension Pre-Health Society that is a great resource for the post-bac kids. They send out lots of announcements re: internship & research position openings! See their website here: http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/heps/

Re: past students' success at Stony Brook, why don't you call their office and ask to be connected to any current students or recent alums who wouldn't mind chatting with you? (If you want more feedback than you can find in the post-bac forum.) I fielded those questions at Harvard. Our program director sent inquisitive kids my way

And BTW, I'm glad to hear that you are truly committed to medicine as a future career. On those late nights when you're slogging through light & optics and drawing all sorts of rays which way and that way, don't forget the point of it all. Jump through these pre-med hoops and show the admissions committees how you did it with grace AND style! Woo hoo!

I called the Stony Brook post-baccalaureate office Monday, but the woman in charge was not there. I left a message and my contact information, and hopefully I will get a call back soon.

 

[Strauss6868]

I understand that each post-bacc pre-health program has its own layout in terms of courses; however, it appears to me that the courses offered in most of the programs are similar.

Assuming that the classes offered in each program are similar, which classes would make sense to take to prepare for the program? Since I will most likely be unable to start the program this spring as a result of application deadlines, it makes sense to enroll for a course or two that may help when I start the actual program.

Again, assuming the typical program layout (Phy 1+2, Chem 1+2, etc.), can anyone suggest some beneficial courses?

 

[mauberley]

How are your math skills? A refresher course in algebra might be useful before starting in on physics. Or you might look for an intro/survey course in bio to get you in the general studying mindset. Beyond that, I don't know that a "prep" course is all that necessary, since you'll be starting on the ground floor in whatever program you choose anyway.

 

[LaurenMCAT]

Strauss, you're right about the classes being similar! No matter where you go, you'll need the standard pre-reqs (2 semesters of bio, g chem, o chem, & physics).

You will also want to decide if these "electives" will factor into your "BCPM" gpa. (See p. 38 of the 2011 AMCAS Instructions .pdf document to determine what types of classes are in the biology, chemistry, physics, and math categories.) For example, the following classes should:
- anatomy
- physiology
- biochemistry
- genetics
- microbiology
- molecular biology
- statistics

I took stats as part of my Masters degree coursework (in Kinesiology) and I'm SO glad it was required. At Harvard, I did biochem and loved it: it finally put into perspective all the basic concepts I learned in bio, chem, and o chem. I also did anatomy and physiology in undergrad and really liked the material.

The cool thing about some of these "electives" is that you can learn the basics now, show adcoms that you can handle the coursework, and then not be totally freaked out in med school when biochem, for example, pops up in the curriculum. (I feel a lot more comfortable having done biochem once before in the past!)

 

[Strauss6868]

I finally spoke with someone over the phone at the post-bacc office. The woman answered all of my questions, and the program sounds pretty good. There, however, is one problem.

Most of the programs I looked at run for 2 years (4 semesters) on average. The problem is that once I finish all the courses, get my post-bacc certification, take the MCAT, and apply to a school, assuming I get into a school in my first try, I will have to wait three years to start school (2 years post bacc + "float 3rd year").

I am not saying that going for my dream isn't worth it, but since I am a non-trad (27 years old) applicant, time is not on my side.

What would you do?