Is med harder than law?

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acsb_21

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I read an article on KevinMD the other day that said medical school as a whole is more difficult than law school. This is an age old argument, I'm sure. Any comments in favor or against this claim, and why?
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Dave1980 said:
better question: is tom brady's domination of the nfl over?
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he hasn't quite fallen off of a cliff like either of the Mannings but i certainly don't see anyone putting him in the mvp discussion either. More than likely he'll be carried to the superbowl by arguably the best defense the modern era of football has ever seen where they'll get blown out lol
 
I mean, I may not attending either schools right now, but I think it’s safe to say they’re difficult in their own ways. It’s like asking if Wayne Gretzky or Tom Brady is a better player imo (hockey > football btw).

Sure, medicine is harder wrt “science content,” but law students need to be extremely proficient at reading and writing very dense and hard-to-understand content. They’re also great logical thinkers.

I am pretty glad med school isn’t so dependent on rankings though. It seems lawyer salaries have a direct correlation with the ranking/prestige of their school.


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Dave1980 said:
better question: is tom brady's domination of the nfl over?
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Bring back AB and we will see. Man is out there throwing to a banged up edelman and rookies. Run and pass protection looked much better with Wynn back.
 
ChymeofPassion said:
Bring back AB and we will see. Man is out there throwing to a banged up edelman and rookies. Run and pass protection looked much better with Wynn back.
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forgot about Ab, goodell will never let him play. Give me back flash. Doesn’t matter if he’s occasionally late for team meetings, the guys got hands which is more than you can say for dorsett or gunner olszweski who can only catch the ball if it practically gets stuck in their face mask
 
Ak09 said:
forgot about Ab, goodell will never let him play. Give me back flash. Doesn’t matter if he’s occasionally late for team meetings, the guys got hands which is more than you can say for dorsett or gunner olszweski who can only catch the ball if it practically gets stuck in their face mask
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Why they let go flash but kept gunner olszweski (punt muff TD + generic 7th round white guy that isnt special) still blows my mind. Oh, and letting Demaryious Thomas go twice.
 
Ak09 said:
he hasn't quite fallen off of a cliff like either of the Mannings but i certainly don't see anyone putting him in the mvp discussion either. More than likely he'll be carried to the superbowl by arguably the best defense the modern era of football has ever seen where they'll get blown out lol
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Nope. Undefeated Miami Dolphins No Name Defense is considered the best. Btw, Doug Swift, MD, was a starting linebacker on that team and is an anesthesiologist.
 
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As far as I know Law is extremely competitive field. Each podunk state has its law school and market is oversaturated especially for recent grads unless you went to top 15 best schools. My school has its own law school, most grads start with ~55k and tons of debts.
 
In terms of getting *into* school, Med is by far harder (Law tends to only worry about GPA+LSAT, has no interviews for most schools). Had several friends that went Law that were baffled by the amount of various requirements to be competitive or to even apply to med school.

School wise I can't say

Post-school law is definitely harder. Once your in med school, you are basically guaranteed to become a doctor (whether that be the specialty you want is a different story). Going to a local state-only med school vs. Harvard the biggest difference is ease of getting into certain specialties, but either way you will be paid $$$, will be a doc, and learn the same stuff. Law school is different thought. If you don't go to the T14 or so schools, you basically have no idea what may happen. There are too many horror stories of law students having no job at the end of their studies, and even the jobs they get were extremely low paying if they didn't go to those top schools. Med school, you have certainty post-graduation. Law school, if you aren't a top law school student, you don't. To me that makes law harder post-grad.
 
Law school is easier to get into, and some law schools are practically throwing money at students to go there. A friend of mine who is now a law student got full rides to two law schools (Iowa and Indiana). She did well on the LSAT, but not quite Harvard well. While applying, she basically told me that you should only go law if you get a full ride or go to a Harvard/Yale type school.

Also, law schools are much more welcoming of international students. My friend who is a non-citizen originally considered medical school, but knew how competitive it was and was hesitant to go through the whole process of applying. She met with an immigration lawyer who happened to mention during the meeting that law schools are more willing to accept non-citizens. After some thought, she realized that law was actually a better fit for her in the long run, and she is now applying to law school, so we’ll see how she fares!
 
@tessellations The JD is a bust if its a full ride to Cooley Law School. I would even go so far as type that attending any law school is a huge opportunity cost even in the case of tuition being covered if you don't have a solid job network going into the field. There is usually some significant delusion in which people who attend T3 and T4 institutions have for why their institution ought to be considered T1 in X, Y, or Z which they coincidentally are planning to go into or have strong local job connections which again is usually B.S. and founded off the school reporting their own s/p 9 month post-grad prospectuses which are handled in the most immoral fashion.

When I type immoral, I mean comparatively e.g. school marketing is understood, but statistical misrepresentation is usually not an action schools would take in high demand fields such as medicine. Law schools would employ a student for $15 to do legal review if they weren't able to find a job in the first 2 months, but under the stipulation that at the 10th month they will be let go from the position. Thus even prestigious schools would report a 100% employment in their s/p 9 month graduation prospectus and make vague claims like, "strong local job networking connections" etc. It is for these types of actions that were highlighted by scamblogs that arose around 2010 that overall admissions fell significantly since approx 2010 onward, only to have seen a recent improvement circa 2016-2017.

Law-School-Enrollment-40.jpg
 
@acsb_21 I'm curious if you can actually set up parameters for what you qualify as being hard. Setting up some standard of measurement would be nice. Would you like to draw parallels to the LSAT logic section to the MCAT verbal reasoning section? You seem to know that this is an "age old argument" so I'm more curious why you put in absolutely no effort in your OP to actually drive the conversation in a direction that pertains to what you want out of this discussion if its something that you've seen before.
 
Select All That Apply said:
@acsb_21 I'm curious if you can actually set up parameters for what you qualify as being hard. Setting up some standard of measurement would be nice. Would you like to draw parallels to the LSAT logic section to the MCAT verbal reasoning section? You seem to know that this is an "age old argument" so I'm more curious why you put in absolutely no effort in your OP to actually drive the conversation in a direction that pertains to what you want out of this discussion if its something that you've seen before.
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I "put in absolutely no effort" to drive the conversation because I was curious to see how other members would respond, thus no parameters from the get go would grant them the liberty to answer how they desired. Nor was I attempting to start an argument, although I may have exasperated some members with what they deemed to be a stupid question. I have immense respect for both medical and law students. To more directly answer your question, I guess I was particularly curious about those who had experience with both (such as MD/JD) and which they struggled with more. However, as some people mentioned, this is partially subjective because some people abhor studying law/politics and writing long papers, while others would feel the same about studying the sciences. I would imagine that an MD/JD student would have a proclivity for both or else they wouldn't be pursuing a dual degree, so their insight is particularly valuable.
 
Lawyers have an extremely broad range of outcomes, from Saul Goodman to the entire third branch of government. Physicians have good, impactful jobs, but they generally don't matter in the broad scheme of things. Hell, even the surgeon general doesn't matter! Lawyers (as judges, prosecutors, even politicians, etc.) can change the face of history.
 
It depends.

Medical school and law school draw upon different skills.

Whereas medical school is more memorization and procedure oriented, law school is more logic and analysis oriented.

How "hard," or conversely how "easy" a school is, depends on where the student's aptitude lies.

ipsa scientia potestas est
 
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Select All That Apply said:
@CheGuevaraMD From a fictional attorney to the Judicial Branch of the U.S. Government. That is an extremely broad range.
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It's true...I suspect if medicine paid poorly most people on these boards wouldn't pursue it. Many parts of law pays relatively poorly (Supreme Court Justices only make $250k!), and people still flock to it.
 
DoctoOcto said:
I am pretty glad med school isn’t so dependent on rankings though. It seems lawyer salaries have a direct correlation with the ranking/prestige of their school.
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True but this is controlled by the fact that the most selective law schools have similar acceptance rate to average-low MD programs.
 
acsb_21 said:
I read an article on KevinMD the other day that said medical school as a whole is more difficult than law school. This is an age old argument, I'm sure. Any comments in favor or against this claim, and why?
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My friend was studying for the LSAT while I studied for the MCAT and our crying cycles were pretty synchronized. Also, the last time I called her, she asked why i was calling "in the middle of the night" (I had woken her from a nap at 6pm after not hearing from her for a month). So anecdotally, I would say they're probably equally hard, maybe for different reasons.
 
In terms of just the schooling It is really subjective and what you quantify as hard or difficult. I would hate to go to law school because the insane amount of writing and paperwork. My fiancee is a practicing attorney and we lived together throughout law school and I do not envy her. With that being said she's very intelligent, loves it, and couldn't tell you much about a cell or chemistry. Different strokes for different folks.....

In medical school we have STEP, however unlike medical schools most law schools are not pass fail and you better believe your class ranking is extremely important, so you can't just strive for pass. I would say they are fairly equal in "difficulty" with the caveat being that applying to medical school is a more tedious process.

Outside of school the legal profession is much more stratified, has a much higher ceiling, and is way more competitive imo.
 
It depends what metric you're looking at. If you do the bare minimum at a low ranked US med school and barely pass across the board, with no personal/family job conenctions, you're gonna be able to make 250k 3years out of graduation somewhere in the US if you're not limited by geography.

Flip the script and you're an Uber driver
 
Yes, it's not even close. While you learn some substantive law in law school, most of it is about learning how to think and namely recognizing the issues, finding cases, and making logical arguments by analogy. You do memorize or learn general concepts that are common among the states, but since many students will practice in other states black letter law teaching is often quite limited. If you can write and argue persuasively, you can easily do well in law school. Medical school will require a scientific mindset and the ability to recite, retain, and apply large amounts of data.
 
I took the LSAT and the MCAT. The MCAT is more difficult and requires more endurance. Is law school a breeze? Of course not. It’s only 3 years, and no residency is required after graduation. Both careers have pros and cons. It comes down to what you’re passionate about.
 
My sister is a recent law grad and I cant compare the rigor since its a subjective measure in my opinion and I've never done the LSAT etc., but what I can say is navigating the job market and excelling in the field seems much harder than in medicine.
 
Select All That Apply said:
@tessellations The JD is a bust if its a full ride to Cooley Law School. I would even go so far as type that attending any law school is a huge opportunity cost even in the case of tuition being covered if you don't have a solid job network going into the field. There is usually some significant delusion in which people who attend T3 and T4 institutions have for why their institution ought to be considered T1 in X, Y, or Z which they coincidentally are planning to go into or have strong local job connections which again is usually B.S. and founded off the school reporting their own s/p 9 month post-grad prospectuses which are handled in the most immoral fashion.

When I type immoral, I mean comparatively e.g. school marketing is understood, but statistical misrepresentation is usually not an action schools would take in high demand fields such as medicine. Law schools would employ a student for $15 to do legal review if they weren't able to find a job in the first 2 months, but under the stipulation that at the 10th month they will be let go from the position. Thus even prestigious schools would report a 100% employment in their s/p 9 month graduation prospectus and make vague claims like, "strong local job networking connections" etc. It is for these types of actions that were highlighted by scamblogs that arose around 2010 that overall admissions fell significantly since approx 2010 onward, only to have seen a recent improvement circa 2016-2017.

Law-School-Enrollment-40.jpg
Click to expand...
So true. Cooley Law School is like the equivalent of a Caribbean med school. There is a law firm named Cooley, which is apparently NOT related and actually a really great firm, though! I wonder if people get them confused often.
 
Haha I've grown passionate about this topic over the years. My partner is a 2L at columbia and was an average/good student in undergrad (strong LSAT, 3.6 GPA, barely any ECs). He started out an english major premed like me (we were both between medicine and law, I stuck w premed and he switched). The sheer amount of free time he has -- I never, ever witness in my med school friends. Vacations, parties, etc. Says it's even more fun than undergrad and his friends from school seem to agree. Meanwhile, everyone asks why I don't "just go to Columbia med." Well, their median GPA isn't 3.7 unlike the law school and the acceptance rate is about a fifth of theirs.

Plus one of my tutoring coworkers is a law student at my UG and had the time to work even more hours than some undergrads. Don't med schools make you sign a contract not to work? /there's really not a realistic chance to hold a job during med school?

Not to mention, there are MD/JD programs. But imagine a JD program letting you tack on an MD with an extra 2 years of schooling or doing it as night school.

Yeah it's subjective, you're screwed if it's not a T20, saturated job market, it doesn't even matter at the end of the day yadda yadda, but there's definitely a better case for med school being more difficult
 
lem0nworld said:
Haha I've grown passionate about this topic over the years. My partner is a 2L at columbia and was an average/good student in undergrad (strong LSAT, 3.6 GPA, barely any ECs). He started out an english major premed like me (we were both between medicine and law, I stuck w premed and he switched). The sheer amount of free time he has -- I never, ever witness in my med school friends. Vacations, parties, etc. Says it's even more fun than undergrad and his friends from school seem to agree. Meanwhile, everyone asks why I don't "just go to Columbia med." Well, their median GPA isn't 3.7 unlike the law school and the acceptance rate is about a fifth of theirs.

Plus one of my tutoring coworkers is a law student at my UG and had the time to work even more hours than some undergrads. Don't med schools make you sign a contract not to work? /there's really not a realistic chance to hold a job during med school?

Not to mention, there are MD/JD programs. But imagine a JD program letting you tack on an MD with an extra 2 years of schooling or doing it as night school.

Yeah it's subjective, you're screwed if it's not a T20, saturated job market, it doesn't even matter at the end of the day yadda yadda, but there's definitely a better case for med school being more difficult
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To be fair, just about every med student I have talked to said they have more free time than they had in undergrad, and have had more fun. Heck, one of the student hosts I stayed with brought me with him to a party the night after my interview :laugh:
 
u_raptor said:
To be fair, just about every med student I have talked to said they have more free time than they had in undergrad, and have had more fun. Heck, one of the student hosts I stayed with brought me with him to a party the night after my interview :laugh:
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Damn, I might need to rethink my friend group then haha. That's a relief!

I went out a ton in undergrad minus when I took orgo. I thought undergrad was super fun and can't imagine med school being anything close -- so your comment gives me a glimmer of hope for the occasional free time 🙂 although I do know kids go very hard after big exam weeks are over!
 
lem0nworld said:
Damn, I might need to rethink my friend group then haha. That's a relief!

I went out a ton in undergrad minus when I took orgo. I thought undergrad was super fun and can't imagine med school being anything close -- so your comment gives me a glimmer of hope for the occasional free time 🙂 although I do know kids go very hard after big exam weeks are over!
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I think a lot of stress goes out the window with pass/fail curriculums. Alot of schools i went to have dedicated like 2 or 3 afternoons a week of pure free time, etc. Schools seem to be a lot more sensitive to ensuring lower stress, and I think that was reflected in the students I talked to.

Glad to give some hope!
 
Here's the deal with the legal job market for new graduates. When the economy is going well you don't have to graduate from a top 14 law school to get a decent job. People who graduate in the top half of the class at places like Ohio State, Wisconsin, Georgia, Emory, George Washington, Washington, Southern Cal, Notre Dame etc can get high paying partnership track jobs. On the other hand anybody who graduates from a school in the bottom of the second tier and below and failed to make the law review has probably just wasted three years and $150,000.
Instead of relying on hearsay take a look at the data:

When the economy is a dumpster fire even Georgetown graduates will have a tough time. The 2009-2011 period is a perfect example.

As a long term career, even for people who make big money, the practice of law can be a soul sucking experience. Even at the biggest name law firms, the old chummy atmosphere is long gone. See Dewey and LeBoeuf.

Dewey & LeBoeuf - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Getting clients, getting clients to pay, malpractice fears and constantly being in the company of sociopaths take a toll. This is the reason that many lawyers have mental health and substance abuse issues.
 
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