Is medical school worth it?

Started by JohnnyDoc
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Awesome Sauceome said:
yea but to become a medical assistant NOW (again not 5-10 years ago). It takes 1+ years of schooling separate from your normal undergrad stuff. Which is what demayette is saying: the types of jobs that help you even get those hours are increasingly changing (by law) to require separate schooling.

Even to get a CNA or scribe job is challenging to do while in school because of the increased requirements.

I take back what I was saying Derm, you arent necessarily wrong. But it seems like your knowledge on the PA admission stuff is sort of caught back in the past when you were applying to medical school. A lot has changed even in the past couple of years.

Also a a side note, a lot of PA programs are raising their tuition at a higher rate even than Medical schools are. Supply and demand?
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I am stepping out too... You are right that @DermViser probably have the knowledge of PA admission 5+ years ago...
 
 
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Roxas said:
@cliquesh ?
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Lol.

The actual compensation is higher than most other careers, but I don't think it's worth the time, stress, and effort unless you truly love it. My engineering buddies from college (graduated 6 years ago) work 40-50 hrs a week and make in the low to mid 100s, and have the weekends free to travel and have fun. I, on the other hand, feel like I'm wasting the best years of my life.
 
cliquesh said:
Lol.

The actual compensation is higher than most other careers, but I don't think it's worth the time, stress, and effort unless you truly love it. My engineering buddies from college (graduated 6 years ago) work 40-50 hrs a week and make in the low to mid 100s, and have the weekends free to travel and have fun. I, on the other hand, feel like I'm wasting the best years of my life.
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Where do you think you and your friend(s) will be financially in 15-20 years as a Gas Doc?... not even counting the instability of the engineering job market...
 
JohnnyDoc said:
I am a third year biomedical engineering student. I have taken all the prereq classes for medical school and am studying for the MCAT this summer. I am also shadowing an orthopedic surgeon this summer as well and asked him how he liked his job. What he said was nothing too glamorous. For example, the long work hours per day, including work in the office and work that has to be taken home. The salary has been decreasing. He also mentioned that he would look into other professions if he had the chance to do it all over again. He also recommended a career as a PA or a PT; he reasoned that there is more free time, in addition to a decent salary.

I want to earn a high annual salary and have a job that has good job security. From what I have seen when I shadowed, I liked the patient-physician interaction part of the career. I also liked the problem-solving as a physician. Main question is whether medical school is needed to get to my goals.

My current plan is to keep studying for the MCAT, and see how I do on that. If poorly, I would be aiming for a masters in biomedical engineering and an MBA, then work in the industry. The only problem with that is the poor job security.

I have been searching all over the internet for plus-and-minus for the job as a physician and engineers. Does anyone on here have any advice and/or websites for more info?
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Do what you think you will be most looking forward to wake up each morning and do every day. I don't have a great answer to "why do you want to become a doctor". Obvious reasons could be a good salary and the prestige that comes with being a DO or MD. What I do know is, is that I cannot imagine doing anything else with my life. I've never contemplated doing anything else and that is why I want to become a doctor - a more concrete answer is still to come. The only profession I have told myself that I wanted to become was a surgeon. Ever since I was a little boy and others children were talking about becoming police men and firefighters or astronauts, I wanted to become a doctor and I'm glad I'm headed down this path.
 
cliquesh said:
Lol.

The actual compensation is higher than most other careers, but I don't think it's worth the time, stress, and effort unless you truly love it. My engineering buddies from college (graduated 6 years ago) work 40-50 hrs a week and make in the low to mid 100s, and have the weekends free to travel and have fun. I, on the other hand, feel like I'm wasting the best years of my life.
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I really hope your life improves post-residency. You've had quite a rough time.
 
Temperature101 said:
Where do you think you and your friend(s) will be financially in 15-20 years as a Gas Doc?... not even counting the instability of the engineering job market...
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I'll have more money than them, but they will probably have enjoyed their lives more than I enjoyed mine. I guess that's my fundamental argument. What's the point of having money if you can't enjoy it or when you can enjoy it you're 50.
 
cliquesh said:
I'll have more money than them, but they will probably have enjoyed their lives more than I enjoyed mine. I guess that's my fundamental argument. What's the point of having money if you can't enjoy it or when you can enjoy it you're 50.
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I don't know about that. I married into a family of engineers and they're all pretty damn unhappy
 
Roxas said:
I don't know about that. I married into a family of engineers and they're all pretty damn unhappy
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Well maybe they should be doctors, hah. I was happier as an engineer and I may go back to it after residency.

I'm not saying engineering is better than being a doctor or being a dentist is better than a pharmacist or whatever other scenario. I'm just saying it's not worth doing something you don't enjoy even if it pays well, especially medicine since it's such a huge time commitment.
 
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Mad Jack said:
Yeah, that's another reason I didn't enter the field and picked medical school instead. The growth of PA graduates versus the number of available jobs is insane and the market will probably reach saturation eventually, much like the CRNA market has in many areas.
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Agreed. Reminds me of about 5-6 years ago when everyone was saying to get into pharmacy... And we all know how that ended up.
 
WalSlave said:
Agreed. Reminds me of about 5-6 years ago when everyone was saying to get into pharmacy... And we all know how that ended up.
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technological advances plus the massive glut of grads have crippled the pharmacy job market. On top of that, working conditions (at least at your typical retail store) are absolutely miserable. In the not too distant future, I see a good portion of their work becoming obsolete. Right now, pharmacy has a very bleak future.

Even though there will be saturation with PA's, I think their skill set will at least have more long-term marketability than a new PharmD's will.
 
Roxas said:
I don't know about that. I married into a family of engineers and they're all pretty damn unhappy
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I guess it's a case of the grass is greener... I am seeing the same thing from my engineering friends... A couple of them have been from one job to another in the past few years...
 
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And that is why being a physician has been a solid job for over 100 years now... A lot of other jobs go up a down. Even medicine is in a trough right now. But even in this trough it is still more reliable and better paying than a ton of other professions. A lot of stability here folks, unless they start allowing Watson to diagnose for real heh
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demayette said:
PA don't start making 100k right out of school either... Most of them start making 60K-7oK...
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Lol @ 60-70K, the median salary of a PA was around $95,000 a year. Also, MOST(probably more like ALL) PA schools are way cheaper than medical school overall. My undergrad UNI charges $21,000 for iowa residents for tuition alone and less for the 2nd year, but it is one of the cheapest (and best) PA schools that I have come across. Duke University charges $76,000 total for 2 years. These schools were ranked as the "top" 2 PA schools. I'm no math genius but this seems like a lot less than med school tuition for 4 years....

http://pa.mc.duke.edu/Admissions/Tuition/
http://www.medicine.uiowa.edu/pa/expenses/
 
user3 said:
technological advances plus the massive glut of grads have crippled the pharmacy job market. On top of that, working conditions (at least at your typical retail store) are absolutely miserable. In the not too distant future, I see a good portion of their work becoming obsolete. Right now, pharmacy has a very bleak future.

Even though there will be saturation with PA's, I think their skill set will at least have more long-term marketability than a new PharmD's will.
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You're right. The job descriptions couldn't be more different, and working conditions for pharmacists really are atrocious. PAs can do a lot of the same things doctors can do for a fraction of the salary, so I really only see their responsibilities growing in the future.
 
IAhawkeye said:
Lol @ 60-70K, the median salary of a PA was around $95,000 a year. Also, MOST(probably more like ALL) PA schools are way cheaper than medical school overall. My undergrad UNI charges $21,000 for iowa residents for tuition alone and less for the 2nd year, but it is one of the cheapest (and best) PA schools that I have come across. Duke University charges $76,000 total for 2 years. These schools were ranked as the "top" 2 PA schools. I'm no math genius but this seems like a lot less than med school tuition for 4 years....
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Now look at how much it costs for out-of-staters. Sure med school costs more, but doctors make more. Both have their pros and cons. If you want autonomy and are willing to work for it, being a PA just sounds silly. If you want to have less (though still a lot) of debt and hit the working world sooner, PA sounds much more attractive.

To OP, med school is a HUGE undertaking as many others have stated. If you're willing to sacrifice 8+ years of your life to get a job with arguably the best security and which pays well, then medicine may be right for you. I'd do a lot of research on medicine before you make any decisions though, especially since you sound like you could potentially be very happy in another field.
 
DermViser said:
If you have $750 of student debt after dental school, then you are doing something wrong. Residency is an option in dentistry, not a requirement.
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This is after ortho training. If you attend practically any private dental school and then an ortho residency, you are looking at this ballpark of debt easily.

Look at PENN dental and ortho:

http://www.dental.upenn.edu/academic_programs_admissions/dmd_program/tuition_fees

http://www.dental.upenn.edu/academi...ams/orthodontic_residency_program/annual_fees

That's representative of dental and ortho fees at most private schools.

Or Look at OHSU:

http://www.ohsu.edu/xd/education/sc...udents/dmd-program/upload/tuition1314-DMD.pdf

http://www.ohsu.edu/xd/education/sc...y/prospective-students/advanced-education.cfm
 
Silent Cool said:
This is after ortho training. If you attend practically any private dental school and then an ortho residency, you are looking at this ballpark of debt easily.

Look at PENN dental and ortho:

http://www.dental.upenn.edu/academic_programs_admissions/dmd_program/tuition_fees

http://www.dental.upenn.edu/academi...ams/orthodontic_residency_program/annual_fees

That's representative of dental and ortho fees at most private schools.

Or Look at OHSU:

http://www.ohsu.edu/xd/education/sc...udents/dmd-program/upload/tuition1314-DMD.pdf

http://www.ohsu.edu/xd/education/sc...y/prospective-students/advanced-education.cfm
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You can also attend a state dental school and come out with much less debt.
 
DermViser said:
You can also attend a state dental school and come out with much less debt.
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What if you don't get into a state school? Obviously you can do that, but a good 50% of people can't.

Even if you attend buffalo dental school and you have a modest 25K of undergrad debt, you would still owe about 550K at the end of ortho training assuing 7.35% interest. Keep in mind that interest rates are expected to increase each of the coming years:

http://dental.buffalo.edu/Portals/0/estexpsheet14-15 lines.pdf

https://dental.buffalo.edu/Portals/0/Student/Orthodontics 2013-2014 Estimated Expenses.pdf

Also keep in mind that most ortho programs from what I understand do not permit moonlighting.
 
IAhawkeye said:
Lol @ 60-70K, the median salary of a PA was around $95,000 a year. Also, MOST(probably more like ALL) PA schools are way cheaper than medical school overall. My undergrad UNI charges $21,000 for iowa residents for tuition alone and less for the 2nd year, but it is one of the cheapest (and best) PA schools that I have come across. Duke University charges $76,000 total for 2 years. These schools were ranked as the "top" 2 PA schools. I'm no math genius but this seems like a lot less than med school tuition for 4 years....

http://pa.mc.duke.edu/Admissions/Tuition/
http://www.medicine.uiowa.edu/pa/expenses/
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I was not talking about the median salary... I was talking about starting salary... I know quiet a few who started in that range when I was working at a primary care clinic...
 
I had this discussion with family friends recently. Conclusion in our collective opinions: Almost every lucrative type of career requires money and debt.
 
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I understand that a lot of time is invested into becoming a doctor and finishing residency, however, i don't understand how you work long hours (around 55 hrs) a week when you're able to fully practice. I didn't know there was so much bureaucracy behind practicing medicine, and i haven't been exposed to the specifics while volunteering at my clinic. I understand people go into medicine because they don't see themselves doing anything else or have a "passion" for it, but i would assume that most people have a life outside of medicine. I was reading in the family medicine forums that some physicians have a 9-5 workday 4-5 days a week, some do hospitalist type work within the week, another physician mentioned doing locums and how they takes multi-2 month vacations after working 6 days a week for 2 months, and is able to rake in >$200k easily. I guess most work long hours to pay off their tremendous debt and are able to have a better lifestyle afterwards.

Everyone recommends doing dental for the $$$ and the lifestyle, but i don't quite understand why.
 
GreyF0X said:
I understand that a lot of time is invested into becoming a doctor and finishing residency, however, i don't understand how you work long hours (around 55 hrs) a week when you're able to fully practice. I didn't know there was so much bureaucracy behind practicing medicine, and i haven't been exposed to the specifics while volunteering at my clinic. I understand people go into medicine because they don't see themselves doing anything else or have a "passion" for it, but i would assume that most people have a life outside of medicine. I was reading in the family medicine forums that some physicians have a 9-5 workday 4-5 days a week, some do hospitalist type work within the week, another physician mentioned doing locums and how they takes multi-2 month vacations after working 6 days a week for 2 months, and is able to rake in >$200k easily. I guess most work long hours to pay off their tremendous debt and are able to have a better lifestyle afterwards.

Everyone recommends doing dental for the $$$ and the lifestyle, but i don't quite understand why.
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there is a giant elephant in the room for medicine, however-- the uncertainty of future income with healthcare reform and whatnot.
 
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