is millitary dentists worth it??????? Please give me some advice..

[dentalmon]

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Hi, I'm applying for dental school and one of the thing i am very interested in knowing more about is going through the military route to pay for dental school. I just basically listed some questions that I have and I hope that you guys could help answer some of them for me.

so my questions are


1. if military, which branch is better?? Army, Navy, Air Force?
2. What's the physical requirements to be a military dentist? too tall too short?🙄😎
3. What's being a military dentist like? Do you have to travel alot? Do you have to fight wars?
4. Can the military pull you to go to war when you are in dental school?
5. Do they really really pay for your tuition in full?😀😀
6. ** most important question, DO the Military ultimately help prepare you for the real world as i hope to open my own practice one day after military? **One of my friend have told me that military dentist often only practice the simple stuff like fillings... and that later when you do come out, you wouldn't be good at anything else..(is that true?)
7. if you want to later specialized, can you do that in the military?
8. Do you make money when you practice as a military dentist after dental school? ( i heard they pay you very very little..🙁 (is that true?))
9. So Is it worth it? 😕😕

i really hope that a actual military dentist or any dental schools that are going through this could give me some advise 🙂


Thank you so much,🙂

 

[notin]

you probably want to try the military dentistry forum 🙂

but i can answer a few questions, i'm not in it but have heard a few things.

they really pay for your tuition + a stipend, then pay you 60-80k/year while you serve. if you work this out, its better pay than you're likely to make in private practice minus your school debt, particularly if you're going to nyu or usc or your tuition is otherwise outrageously high. but, you're really really in the military, its not pretend. if you aren't interested in leading a military lifestyle, then you will be miserable.

 

[DrReo]

you probably want to try the military dentistry forum 🙂

but i can answer a few questions, i'm not in it but have heard a few things.

they really pay for your tuition + a stipend, then pay you 60-80k/year while you serve. if you work this out, its better pay than you're likely to make in private practice minus your school debt, particularly if you're going to nyu or usc or your tuition is otherwise outrageously high. but, you're really really in the military, its not pretend. if you aren't interested in leading a military lifestyle, then you will be miserable.

Better pay depends on many things. Recent public service jobs have been going for a salary of 125k/yr and 25k/yr for student loans. Also, if you start/buy your own practice your 3rd year, you will loose equity and time building your practice.

Join the military only if you want to serve. Tell yourself that you will get paid significantly less. If you still want to join, you know it's not for financial reasons.

 

[Oracle DMD]

Better pay depends on many things. Recent public service jobs have been going for a salary of 125k/yr and 25k/yr for student loans. Also, if you start/buy your own practice your 3rd year, you will loose equity and time building your practice.

Join the military only if you want to serve. Tell yourself that you will get paid significantly less. If you still want to join, you know it's not for financial reasons.

👍 remember that recruiters are NOTORIOUS for "half truths" to put it nicely. Dr. Reo's advice is the honest truth. don't do it for the money if that's reason #1. do it for honor, do it to serve your country. there are a lot of great reasons to join the military, money is not one of them.

 

[DoctaWalnuts]

haha love the heading "Is military dentists worth it" I don't know is they? jk 😀

 

[yuppers]

1. if military, which branch is better?? Army, Navy, Air Force?
it depends on the lifestyle you want.
2. What's the physical requirements to be a military dentist? too tall too short?🙄😎
dont worry about height.... just conditioning and strength (run and lift to prepare yourself for the officer training if you get accepted). you will also have to go through a physical.
3. What's being a military dentist like? Do you have to travel alot? Do you have to fight wars?
you will be an officer and a dentist. travel depends on branch. You will not be in combat itself.
4. Can the military pull you to go to war when you are in dental school?
No, this was one of my first questions. They wil leave you alone during DS.
5. Do they really really pay for your tuition in full?😀😀
yeah, with lab fees, equipment, books. You get a stipend of around 1900 monthly. also if you join the army you get a 20k signing bonus.
6. ** most important question, DO the Military ultimately help prepare you for the real world as i hope to open my own practice one day after military? **One of my friend have told me that military dentist often only practice the simple stuff like fillings... and that later when you do come out, you wouldn't be good at anything else..(is that true?)
good question and I hope someone with more knowlegde of this can answer this.... NAVY DDS, AFDDS, anyone.....?
7. if you want to later specialized, can you do that in the military?
yes, and you will get paid for those years in speciality, but those years are neutral meaning that they do not count into the payoff years.
8. Do you make money when you practice as a military dentist after dental school? ( i heard they pay you very very little..🙁 (is that true?))
you get paid as an officer.
9. So Is it worth it? 😕😕
thats up to you to decide.

i really hope that a actual military dentist or any dental schools that are going through this could give me some advise 🙂

Thank you so much,🙂

there are lots of pros and sometimes even more cons, yet I am applying for a HPSP. It takes lots of questions and research to decide if the you want to do it.

PM me if you want more info about how I decided to choose one branch over the others and also if you want some of my reasons for applying.

 

[Oracle DMD]

there are lots of pros and sometimes even more cons, yet I am applying for a HPSP. It takes lots of questions and research to decide if the you want to do it.

PM me if you want more info about how I decided to choose one branch over the others and also if you want some of my reasons for applying.

the navy also has the 20k bonus. the packages for each branch are very similar or exactly the same. IMO the navy has the best duty stations for active duty (almost always by the ocean!) but i understand the airforce will treat you better and also shiplife sucks so thats a downer for the navy.

 

[yuppers]

the navy also has the 20k bonus. the packages for each branch are very similar or exactly the same. IMO the navy has the best duty stations for active duty (almost always by the ocean!) but i understand the airforce will treat you better and also shiplife sucks so thats a downer for the navy.

Pretty much. No 20k bonus for AF, but with that little traveling.

 

[Hordel]

I can TRY to answer question #6 for you, but remember this is an opinion ONLY!! My father is a dentist and he signed on to the army (not via HPSP because he didn't know about it at the time he started d school). He has always told me that the BEST thing that ever happened to him in regards to his proficiency in dentistry is his time in the army. He ended up doing two residencies, one perio and the other was the GPR (general residency). He said that the residencies were better then you could find in the private sector, but remember he didn't ever do any other residency. The main reason that he spoke so highly of practicing in the army is because he said that he was allowed to do things he could never do in the private sector. After all, in the real world if the patient can't afford a crown lengthening (just an example) then it is NOT done and the tooth is extracted, end of story. However, in the army if a crown lengthening procedure was needed for the best long-term oral prognosis of someone then it was done, and often times it was done on the spot. He said that he did procedures in the army he would have NEVER done in private practice due to the cost of the procedure. So, from what I have heard (and this comes from other dentists outside of my father as well as from my father) the military is a GREAT thing for you as a professional. As for which branch to use, everyone I have heard from says that facilities are better in the airforce, but they don't have the signing bonus. Now, this is only a few people's opinions.

 

[yuppers]

I can TRY to answer question #6 for you, but remember this is an opinion ONLY!! My father is a dentist and he signed on to the army (not via HPSP because he didn’t know about it at the time he started d school). He has always told me that the BEST thing that ever happened to him in regards to his proficiency in dentistry is his time in the army. He ended up doing two residencies, one perio and the other was the GPR (general residency). He said that the residencies were better then you could find in the private sector, but remember he didn’t ever do any other residency. The main reason that he spoke so highly of practicing in the army is because he said that he was allowed to do things he could never do in the private sector. After all, in the real world if the patient can’t afford a crown lengthening (just an example) then it is NOT done and the tooth is extracted, end of story. However, in the army if a crown lengthening procedure was needed for the best long-term oral prognosis of someone then it was done, and often times it was done on the spot. He said that he did procedures in the army he would have NEVER done in the army due to the cost of the procedure. So, from what I have heard (and this comes from other dentists outside of my father) the military is a GREAT thing for you as a professional. As for which branch to use, everything one I have heard from says that facilities are better in the airforce, but they don't have the signing bonus. Now, this is only a few people’s opinions.

The residencies work by counting as neutral years but you get officer pay.... right? Do you think yor dad would be as happy with his experiences if he didnt do the residencies?

 

[Hordel]

The residencies work by counting as neutral years but you get officer pay.... right? Do you think yor dad would be as happy with his experiences if he didnt do the residencies?

For the first question I am not exatly sure what you mean but I will try to answer it as best I can. Assuming you mean that it does not count towards time that you owe the army then the answer to question #1 is NO. You will owe the army a certain amount of time for each year that you are in a residency, I believe it is 1 to 1. Yet, you are correct in that you DO get officer pay.

The second question is tough to answer. I don't know if he would even know the answer to it. I guess I would say that IF he was going via HPSP he still would have been happy, after all he would be happy just to have no D school debt. However, if he was going in without the HPSP, as he did, I feel as though he still would have said it was a good experience, but he would probably not be as high on what the army can do for you as a dentist. I still think he would have said that he was able to do some procedures that the private sector would not allow due to cost and that is why I would say it would still be a valuble experience.

Now understand that I am NOT a recruiter and I am NOT saying that anyone should do it. I do see the down sides, which for me include losing weight and keeping in shape on top of basic training, which will probably be like hell on earth. I will probably go via the army if I get in (due to experience and money), however I know that there is a bad side to the army and therefore I would NEVER tell anyone else what to do. All I am doing is trying to give each and everyone of you the best information I have to try and get you to make an educated decission about theo army.

Hope this helps and I wish you all the best!!👍

 

[MALOKINMARTIN]

From what I hear, 4 years active duty.

From my understanding you're signing up for 8 possible. That means even if you've done your 4, there is a distinct possibility that they could call you back at any time for the next 4 after the fact. In other words, if they have a shortage of dentists they can call you back in to fill the gap. In today's armed forces, with recruitment they way it is, it wasn't worth the chance for me.

Though others i have talked with in my class seem to be really stoaked on their impending service time. So results may vary.

 

[yuppers]

In today's armed forces, with recruitment they way it is, it wasn't worth the chance for me.

Many people get rejected due to the amount of applications they receive so I doubt you will get call back into it after you are done. But you are right that there is always a chance.

 

[yuppers]

For the first question I am not exatly sure what you mean but I will try to answer it as best I can. Assuming you mean that it does not count towards time that you owe the army then the answer to question #1 is NO. You will owe the army a certain amount of time for each year that you are in a residency, I believe it is 1 to 1. Yet, you are correct in that you DO get officer pay.

Alright, I actually just got a call from my recruiter and I asked him. This is for the AF and it may be different for other branches... he said the AEGD is 1 neutral year and the other residencies are paid back in equal number of years.
Thanks and Good luck to you too.

 

[Oracle DMD]

doesn't it seem pointless to do an AEGD or GPR in the military? a specialty program yes but not an extra year of training for no reason. you get all of the experience you need in the fleet as a dentist anyways w/ no repercussions anyway and then you'll be making money and paying off your time debt in the process.

 

[dentalmon]

For the first question I am not exatly sure what you mean but I will try to answer it as best I can. Assuming you mean that it does not count towards time that you owe the army then the answer to question #1 is NO. You will owe the army a certain amount of time for each year that you are in a residency, I believe it is 1 to 1. Yet, you are correct in that you DO get officer pay.

The second question is tough to answer. I don't know if he would even know the answer to it. I guess I would say that IF he was going via HPSP he still would have been happy, after all he would be happy just to have no D school debt. However, if he was going in without the HPSP, as he did, I feel as though he still would have said it was a good experience, but he would probably not be as high on what the army can do for you as a dentist. I still think he would have said that he was able to do some procedures that the private sector would not allow due to cost and that is why I would say it would still be a valuble experience.

Now understand that I am NOT a recruiter and I am NOT saying that anyone should do it. I do see the down sides, which for me include losing weight and keeping in shape on top of basic training, which will probably be like hell on earth. I will probably go via the army if I get in (due to experience and money), however I know that there is a bad side to the army and therefore I would NEVER tell anyone else what to do. All I am doing is trying to give each and everyone of you the best information I have to try and get you to make an educated decission about theo army.

Hope this helps and I wish you all the best!!👍

.. so you have to go through basic trainning to be a Dentist in the millitary?.. and also, got another question, some ppl told me that they will not pull you when you are in Dental school, But i have heard stories that they did to others.. for example, one of my friend told me that two of his classmates in pharm school were pulled while they were in their 3rd yr for duty.. and that utlimately delayed their graduation from pharm school.. (Now i know that i'm using pharm school as an example, but shouldnt dental school student be the same?)

 

[ArmyDDS2013]

double post

 

[ArmyDDS2013]

uhhh... Add in the 25k you get per year in stipend and 20k sign on bonus to your 4 years of active service ($75k/year) and you are roughly ~100k/year

Don't forget to add on 4 years of tuition/equipment/fees/interest payments which for private schools is close to $400,000 NET

I don't want to go into the details in regards to malpractice insurance, benefits, tax, etc. but the idea that the financial benefit of the HPSP is negligible is absurd.

Unlike most people, I don't want to be paying off loans until I'm 45, I'd rather have 2 homes and a nice 7 series.

 

[Oracle DMD]

uhhh... Add in the 25k you get per year in stipend and 20k sign on bonus to your 4 years of active service ($75k/year) and you are roughly ~100k/year

Don't forget to add on 4 years of tuition/equipment/fees/interest payments which for private schools is close to $400,000 NET

I don't want to go into the details in regards to malpractice insurance, benefits, tax, etc. but the idea that the financial benefit of the HPSP is negligible is absurd.

Unlike most people, I don't want to be paying off loans until I'm 45, I'd rather have 2 homes and a nice 7 series.

2 homes? i hope they're vacation homes because you have to live where they say you do. hahaha i'm sure the wife will love to drive that 7 series while you're on deployment.

without the military, yeah you might be paying off loans for a long while, but you'll also be making more money, and be building equity in your own practice, where you are the boss. you will be doing the dentistry you want to do at the pace that you want to do it. you wont be 30 yrs old w/ 2 houses and a 7 series maybe, but you also won't be 40yrs old w/o your own practice and patients.

remember that money is rarely ever free, so becareful and understand all the strings attached when joining the military as a dentist.

 

[ArmyDDS2013]

2 homes? i hope they're vacation homes because you have to live where they say you do. hahaha i'm sure the wife will love to drive that 7 series while you're on deployment.

without the military, yeah you might be paying off loans for a long while, but you'll also be making more money, and be building equity in your own practice, where you are the boss. you will be doing the dentistry you want to do at the pace that you want to do it. you wont be 30 yrs old w/ 2 houses and a 7 series maybe, but you also won't be 40yrs old w/o your own practice and patients.

remember that money is rarely ever free, so becareful and understand all the strings attached when joining the military as a dentist.

Sure buddy, when I'm back in 4 years, i'll have a net worth of +200k while you're still negative -200K. That's a 400,000 difference. You do make a good point about building equity in yourself and practice but you have to have some big balls to be taking more loans out for a practice with already 350k you will accumulate from your school. This just means you'll be working as an associate for a few years earning probably a decent salary (100-140) but still falling behind any HPSP student attending a private school financially of course. We'll be opening shop around the same time but the difference is you'll have private practice experience and in debt while I'll have no civilian experience but financially stable.

 

[ArmyDDS2013]

.. so you have to go through basic trainning to be a Dentist in the millitary?.. and also, got another question, some ppl told me that they will not pull you when you are in Dental school, But i have heard stories that they did to others.. for example, one of my friend told me that two of his classmates in pharm school were pulled while they were in their 3rd yr for duty.. and that utlimately delayed their graduation from pharm school.. (Now i know that i'm using pharm school as an example, but shouldnt dental school student be the same?)

no dentists has ever been pulled out, you are in the reserve and will only be pulled out if it's world war 3

 

[Oracle DMD]

Sure buddy, when I'm back in 4 years, i'll have a net worth of +200k while you're still negative -200K. That's a 400,000 difference. You do make a good point about building equity in yourself and practice but you have to have some big balls to be taking more loans out for a practice with already 350k you will accumulate from your school. This just means you'll be working as an associate for a few years earning probably a decent salary (100-140) but still falling behind any HPSP student attending a private school financially of course. We'll be opening shop around the same time but the difference is you'll have private practice experience and in debt while I'll have no civilian experience but financially stable.

while you may be right about my balls (hahaha), you over estimate the upside of the military. i will associate for a few years of course like you said, with a contract that includes a purchase price from the date i associated so that the equity i help build, i get to keep (at least some part of it). you may be finacially stable but so will i be (debt doesn't have to be so scary as long as you manage it properly). you may be out of debt and doing OK but there is way more upside as far as income in the civilian sector. you on one hand know exactly how much you'll make over the next decade (d-school +4 or more yrs in) on the other hand however the civilian side can vary widely with both extremes but including very high highs. however i feel that being your own boss and establishing relationships with patients has a great value thats tough to quantify. after so many years in the miltary, money won't be able to buy you that.

semper fi

 

[Hordel]

To both ArmyDDS2013 and Oracle DMD, you both make very valuble points. I think that if someone is looking for the positives and negatives to the military then this is a great post. The truth is you both have chosen different paths and there is NOTHING wrong with either point and or opionion.

To dentalmon, yes I believe that you still go through basic training. However, I would say that officer basic is WAY easier then regular basic training. My father actually ended up going through both and he said that in officer basic he was treated much better, however it was still not the greatest experience in the world. Also, I do NOT believe they could ever pull you out and if they did it would have to be war of great magnitude for them to even consider this.

I do have a question for anyone that might know, can the army tell you you have to sign up for another 4 years? Also, by taking the signing bonus don't you have an extra year (5 instead of 4)?

Thanks in advance!!

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

To both ArmyDDS2013 and Oracle DMD, you both make very valuble points. I think that if someone is looking for the positives and negatives to the military then this is a great post. The truth is you both have chosen different paths and there is NOTHING wrong with either point and or opionion.

To dentalmon, yes I believe that you still go through basic training. However, I would say that officer basic is WAY easier then regular basic training. My father actually ended up going through both and he said that in officer basic he was treated much better, however it was still not the greatest experience in the world. Also, I do NOT believe they could ever pull you out and if they did it would have to be war of great magnitude for them to even consider this.

I do have a question for anyone that might know, can the army tell you you have to sign up for another 4 years? Also, by taking the signing bonus don't you have an extra year (5 instead of 4)?

Thanks in advance!!

There really is no use of bickering back and forth on this topic. In the civilian setor, there is always the potential to easily make up the student loans in a quick manner where no point can be made where taking a military scholarship is beneficial. But, potential is the key word. There are practices out there that do excellent right from the start and there are associate positions where you can make good moey from the start. I will not deny that. But, these are the minority, not the majority as people love to believe. With that said, there are a lot of benefits that the military can give a new dentist also. When you factor in the guaranteed income and the money you receive from the scholarship and lack of loans/interest, the overall value is very similar if you went to a public university. If you took the scholarship and went to an expensive private school, then you cannot beat the value of the scholarship for the most part in a civilian practice. But, with that comes a price. Yes, in the military, you make sacrifies that you don't have to make in the civilian sector - separation from family at times is a big one. But then you have opportunities that are harder for a civilian dentist to get. If you like to move from time to time to experience different palces, then the military might be for you. Also, if you want to do a residency, you don't need as high of stats and you get a full military dentists salary during the program while accruing vacation days. For me, because of my past military experience, I'll be making $95-100k right out of school (salary, housing allowance, and other special pay). If I get a residency slot, I'll be making that during the residency which you cannot come close to getting in civilian programs. I have done the math for my case. If I use average salary figures for what different specialist make in the civilian sector and what I will make in the military along with the benefits I will get from retiring from the military, I come out ahead financially by staying in the militayr. Now, I do lose the potential of making a whole lot more if I were to get a practice that makes more than the average. That's fine. It is mywife's and my choice to go the guarateed route. For our financial plans, this work out well for us. But, no matter which route we took, financially, we would do well. For us, the military is what we like best. To each is his/her own. You can suceed financially both in the military and civilian sectors as a dentist.

Basic training - for dentists, it is easy. You are already an officer when you go, so you cannot be treated as harshly. But, for non-health profession/law/chaplain officers like pilots, surface warfare officer, supply officers, etc., you have to go through a different basic training. It is much different and you can/will get reated much differently. I went through OCS (Officer Candidate School). We got our butts handed to us daily by our Marine Corps Gunnery Seargent. At times, it was very taxing and stressful at times, but you get through it.

As stated by a couple people above, you will not get pulled out of school to go fight unless a catastrophic war occurred. At which time, dental school would be the last thing on all our minds and those who were not on a military scholarship would probably get drafted because bodies would be needed. Point is, you won't get pulled out of school. For the individual who stated they heard stories of individuals gettign pulled out of pharmacy school, we need all facts related to their situation. There is a possibility they were in the National Guard or in the Reserves (not associated with a scholarship). If this was the case, then yes, they could get called up to active duty. But if they were on an HPSP or HSCP scholarship, it wasn't true.

 

[Oracle DMD]

There really is no use of bickering back and forth on this topic. In the civilian setor, there is always the potential to easily make up the student loans in a quick manner where no point can be made where taking a military scholarship is beneficial. But, potential is the key word. There are practices out there that do excellent right from the start and there are associate positions where you can make good moey from the start. I will not deny that. But, these are the minority, not the majority as people love to believe. With that said, there are a lot of benefits that the military can give a new dentist also. When you factor in the guaranteed income and the money you receive from the scholarship and lack of loans/interest, the overall value is very similar if you went to a public university. If you took the scholarship and went to an expensive private school, then you cannot beat the value of the scholarship for the most part in a civilian practice. But, with that comes a price. Yes, in the military, you make sacrifies that you don't have to make in the civilian sector - separation from family at times is a big one. But then you have opportunities that are harder for a civilian dentist to get. If you like to move from time to time to experience different palces, then the military might be for you. Also, if you want to do a residency, you don't need as high of stats and you get a full military dentists salary during the program while accruing vacation days. For me, because of my past military experience, I'll be making $95-100k right out of school (salary, housing allowance, and other special pay). If I get a residency slot, I'll be making that during the residency which you cannot come close to getting in civilian programs. I have done the math for my case. If I use average salary figures for what different specialist make in the civilian sector and what I will make in the military along with the benefits I will get from retiring from the military, I come out ahead financially by staying in the militayr. Now, I do lose the potential of making a whole lot more if I were to get a practice that makes more than the average. That's fine. It is mywife's and my choice to go the guarateed route. For our financial plans, this work out well for us. But, no matter which route we took, financially, we would do well. For us, the military is what we like best. To each is his/her own. You can suceed financially both in the military and civilian sectors as a dentist.

just to clear up any misunderstanding, i don't think we are bickering at all; at least that isn't the position i was trying to convey. in fact i spent 4 years in the Marine Corps Infantry, and it was a great experience for that time in my life. it was the most fun thing that i'll never do again haha. i just wanted to put it out there that there is no free money out there and there are sacrafices and commitments attached to the deal.

you're right, not everyone will be doing incredibly well right out of school, but we agree that the civilian side not only has a big upside and equity building potential, but it also comes w/ freedoms not available to the military. the ability to set your own hours. the ability to live wherever you want. the ability to be your own boss. the ability to take off work whenever you like. the ability to schedule vacations whenever you like (your vacations in the military are dictated largely by unit schedule)

 

[DrReo]

To both ArmyDDS2013 and Oracle DMD, you both make very valuble points. I think that if someone is looking for the positives and negatives to the military then this is a great post. The truth is you both have chosen different paths and there is NOTHING wrong with either point and or opionion.

To dentalmon, yes I believe that you still go through basic training. However, I would say that officer basic is WAY easier then regular basic training. My father actually ended up going through both and he said that in officer basic he was treated much better, however it was still not the greatest experience in the world. Also, I do NOT believe they could ever pull you out and if they did it would have to be war of great magnitude for them to even consider this.

I do have a question for anyone that might know, can the army tell you you have to sign up for another 4 years? Also, by taking the signing bonus don't you have an extra year (5 instead of 4)?

Thanks in advance!!

.

 

[ArmyDDS2013]

just to clear up any misunderstanding, i don't think we are bickering at all; at least that isn't the position i was trying to convey. in fact i spent 4 years in the Marine Corps Infantry, and it was a great experience for that time in my life. it was the most fun thing that i'll never do again haha. i just wanted to put it out there that there is no free money out there and there are sacrafices and commitments attached to the deal.

you're right, not everyone will be doing incredibly well right out of school, but we agree that the civilian side not only has a big upside and equity building potential, but it also comes w/ freedoms not available to the military. the ability to set your own hours. the ability to live wherever you want. the ability to be your own boss. the ability to take off work whenever you like. the ability to schedule vacations whenever you like (your vacations in the military are dictated largely by unit schedule)

This is entirely true if own your own practice. Most graduates with little to no experience will not purchase a place without first working as an associate for 1, 2 maybe 3 years.

 

[gryffindor]

ArmyDDS2013,

I think you should tone it down a bit as you're coming off as arrogant through your messages. There are financial advantages to the HPSP, undoubtedly, if someone is willing to put up with military and government bureaucracy for four plus years. There are tax benefits to subsidizing large school loans, as well, as individuals can often write off the annual interest to lower their AGI every year until it's paid off; thus, lowering their annual taxable income amount.

You can only deduct your interest from student loans upto a certain income amount. It's $70K for singles and $140K if you file a joint return. And the deduction is low, it's capped $2500. I hope no one led you to believe that this tax benefit was really going to knock down your AGI by a decent amount. Many dentists will not be able to take advantage of this deduction after a few years in practice. Using myself as an example, I have been able to take this deduction for the past few years as a poorly paid dental resident, but I am graduating at the end of the month and looking at gainful employment for the next 6 months and will likely not be able to take the benefit next year.

 

[jfitzpat]

You can only deduct your interest from student loans upto a certain income amount. It's $70K for singles and $140K if you file a joint return. And the deduction is low, it's capped $2500. I hope no one led you to believe that this tax benefit was really going to knock down your AGI by a decent amount. Many dentists will not be able to take advantage of this deduction after a few years in practice. Using myself as an example, I have been able to take this deduction for the past few years as a poorly paid dental resident, but I am graduating at the end of the month and looking at gainful employment for the next 6 months and will likely not be able to take the benefit next year.

This is spot on and a misconception that TONS of dental students have. They think that they will be able to write off the interest on these huge student loans and it will be no problem.

Last year, I paid ~$15,000 in student loan interest. Of that, I was about to deduct $2,500 of it, resulting in a net tax savings of $600. That number would have been no different if I had paid 30k (or 40k or 50k) in student loan interest as I hit the cap. It starts phasing out at 55k/110k in income and at 70k/140k, you are phased out completely.

 

[jay47]

This is spot on and a misconception that TONS of dental students have. They think that they will be able to write off the interest on these huge student loans and it will be no problem.

Last year, I paid ~$15,000 in student loan interest. Of that, I was about to deduct $2,500 of it, resulting in a net tax savings of $600. That number would have been no different if I had paid 30k (or 40k or 50k) in student loan interest as I hit the cap. It starts phasing out at 55k/110k in income and at 70k/140k, you are phased out completely.

WOW You must have a very large loan to pay off...$250,000 K? (15,000/.06)

I do say this coming from the cheapo TX schools, lol. I suppose we're lucky in that matter....

 

[ArmyDDS2013]

ArmyDDS2013,

I think you should tone it down a bit as you're coming off as arrogant through your messages. There are financial advantages to the HPSP, undoubtedly, if someone is willing to put up with military and government bureaucracy for four plus years. There are tax benefits to subsidizing large school loans, as well, as individuals can often write off the annual interest to lower their AGI every year until it's paid off; thus, lowering their annual taxable income amount.

I think you are interpreting my responses too deeply. I am simply speaking the truth and my mind. You can lower your AGI by $2500 if that helps. reconsildation interest rate will be dependant on the current state of the economy which in 4 years may only be slightly better than it is now - who knows.

The way I see it financially is to encourage people attending the top 5-10 most expensive schools to consider the military option. I also highly encourage previous service men and women to do the hpsp simply because their starting pay is much higher $90-100k/year. 0-3E with 4 + years of experience for example (google it).

Otherwise if you're at a public school etc, you have to want to serve to join, otherwise financially, it's negative expected value.

 

[gryffindor]

I have heard the argument many times to go the military route only if you want to serve your country first, the money part should always be a distant second For me and my classmates when we graduated 5 years ago from a lower priced state school, this was absolutely true. However, some of these private school costs have gotten out of hand. Students are now looking to graduate from NYU or USC with close to $400K in debt. You can open a very nice start-up practice with $400K or you can buy a moderate dental office with $400K. I'm tending to agree with armydds13 on this one. It is not common for the new grad to jump out and purchase a $400K practice resulting in $800K debt from day 1. It is not common to have a $150K job waiting for you either, although this one depends on which part of the country you are going to. You need to sit down and run the numbers to figure out the financial benefit, but I think the scales have tipped since the cost of tuition at some of these schools has gotten so high.

I highly doubt 4 years of experience in the military is worthless. It is of course a unique experience and the strings that come attached to it are not for everyone. If anything, you will be very good at bread and butter dentistry and those skills are necessary in any dental practice, especially today when people may not have the money for cosmetic work but are ready to pay to have a painful third molar extracted. Does the military allow for CE during the 4 years of service? If not, you can take some courses when you get out. Dentistry is a career of life long learning anyways.

 

[Oracle DMD]

I have heard the argument many times to go the military route only if you want to serve your country first, the money part should always be a distant second For me and my classmates when we graduated 5 years ago from a lower priced state school, this was absolutely true. However, some of these private school costs have gotten out of hand. Students are now looking to graduate from NYU or USC with close to $400K in debt. You can open a very nice start-up practice with $400K or you can buy a moderate dental office with $400K. I'm tending to agree with armydds13 on this one. It is not common for the new grad to jump out and purchase a $400K practice resulting in $800K debt from day 1. It is not common to have a $150K job waiting for you either, although this one depends on which part of the country you are going to. You need to sit down and run the numbers to figure out the financial benefit, but I think the scales have tipped since the cost of tuition at some of these schools has gotten so high.

I highly doubt 4 years of experience in the military is worthless. It is of course a unique experience and the strings that come attached to it are not for everyone. If anything, you will be very good at bread and butter dentistry and those skills are necessary in any dental practice, especially today when people may not have the money for cosmetic work but are ready to pay to have a painful third molar extracted. Does the military allow for CE during the 4 years of service? If not, you can take some courses when you get out. Dentistry is a career of life long learning anyways.

i agree that the cost of dental school is getting up there and that does give a bit more weight to the miltary option. but even with the cost of dental school, the debt of new dentists is not jeopardizing their lifestyle or earining potential. what you get from the miltary is security, but it comes at the cost of personal freedoms and liberties. i guess, personally speaking, my personal freedom is too expensive for the military, now that i want to start my career.

 

[mr2guysingh]

No, it isnt worth it. I talked to a recruiter and he said they would pay for my pre-dental and dental school, but after I was done, I would still have to stay in the military until I pay them back or something like that. But fortunately I cant join the military because I have asthma. Lol, I dont know why, but he said I will be a liability for them

 

[jfitzpat]

No, it isnt worth it. I talked to a recruiter and he said they would pay for my pre-dental and dental school, but after I was done, I would still have to stay in the military until I pay them back or something like that. But fortunately I cant join the military because I have asthma. Lol, I dont know why, but he said I will be a liability for them

So let me get this straight. You expected the military to pay your way through undergrad and dental school and then cut you loose upon graduation. What possible benefit would they derive from that?

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

No, it isnt worth it. I talked to a recruiter and he said they would pay for my pre-dental and dental school, but after I was done, I would still have to stay in the military until I pay them back or something like that. But fortunately I cant join the military because I have asthma. Lol, I dont know why, but he said I will be a liability for them

ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!???!!?!?!?!? You surely have to be joking here. I know our government WASTES so much money, but even they know paying it is stupid to think they would pay for an individual's undergrad (by BDCP, ROTC or Academy program) and grad school (HPSP or HSCP) without getting any time from the individual on active duty!!! For each program you enter, you incur a certain amount of time you owe the military on active duty. Basically, they pay for your schooling as an incentive for you join the military and serve your country.

As for the asthma, do you think it would be wise for the military to have servicemen and service women serving in a combat zone (or any other location) where conditions are poor and can easily trigger an asthma attack? No. It does put other's lives in jeopardy when they lose concentration on the task at hand when they have to attend to a person who is having an asthma attack who could have one severe enough to need emergent medical attention. Sometimes, emergent care is not available, thus the others have to waste their time, energy and focus on you when there may be other things that need accomplished or when under fire. Now, do you see why? If not, don't go into any medical profession because you'll put people's lives in jeopardy if you cannot comprehend a simple fact like this.

 

[dcsk8element]

No, it isnt worth it. I talked to a recruiter and he said they would pay for my pre-dental and dental school, but after I was done, I would still have to stay in the military until I pay them back or something like that. But fortunately I cant join the military because I have asthma. Lol, I dont know why, but he said I will be a liability for them

I just want to thank you for providing so many things to LMAO at in such a short, innocent paragraph.

 

[Oracle DMD]

ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!???!!?!?!?!? You surely have to be joking here. I know our government WASTES so much money, but even they know paying it is stupid to think they would pay for an individual's undergrad (by BDCP, ROTC or Academy program) and grad school (HPSP or HSCP) without getting any time from the individual on active duty!!! For each program you enter, you incur a certain amount of time you owe the military on active duty. Basically, they pay for your schooling as an incentive for you join the military and serve your country.

As for the asthma, do you think it would be wise for the military to have servicemen and service women serving in a combat zone (or any other location) where conditions are poor and can easily trigger an asthma attack? No. It does put other's lives in jeopardy when they lose concentration on the task at hand when they have to attend to a person who is having an asthma attack who could have one severe enough to need emergent medical attention. Sometimes, emergent care is not available, thus the others have to waste their time, energy and focus on you when there may be other things that need accomplished or when under fire. Now, do you see why? If not, don't go into any medical profession because you'll put people's lives in jeopardy if you cannot comprehend a simple fact like this.

well, i see you have a flair for the dramatic. hahaha