- Joined
- Jan 24, 2017
- Messages
- 855
- Reaction score
- 493
Disclaimer: I am not against nurses, my mom is a nurse and the first piece of advice a physician I shadowed was "make friends with the nurses." I recognize nurses are important. Nurses should never be bullied or belittled.
That said I came across an article a nurse had shared complaining about doctors. In it said "People need to start seeing physicians and nurses as equal and complementary, too often it is seen as a master-slave relationship."
I agree that they are certainly complementary, even vital, but equal doesn't sit well with me.
Yes they do different things, but if the physician doesn't ultimately run the show then why do nurses need physicians orders? Or why do people say "I'm going to see the doctor."? Why do malpractice lawyers mostly go after the physicians? Why is it that physician training is 2-3x longer and more rigorous the entire way through? Why can't nurses (not talking about NP's just yet) open their own practices? I think because without a physician, their scope of practice is fairly limited. There are things nurses are experts in that physicians aren't (quite a bit on nutrition, various nursing diagnoses which largely pertain to emotional wellbeing), and that's where I can see the "complementary" aspect, but when nurses are working in a medical setting like a hospital, practicing their additional skills (clinical skills carried out per physicians orders), they are acting as vital support staff, not equals. I think a huge problem is that millennials, and a lot of other people in this time take offense to being considered anything less than the HBIC.
Do nurses argue that RN's are equal to NP's? I didn't think so, so why do they think they are equal to MD's? The level and scope of care simply isn't the same. I'm not saying that as an opinion or to be insulting, it's simply a fact. The "Master-Servant" thing was their words, not mine. I think we are getting too politically correct in healthcare - It hurts your feelings that your title is not considered quite equal to someone else with much more education, risk involved, and sacrificed personal life? Then do what they did, and earn the same credentials; or even go NP if you want to be more independent, have prescriptive authority, etc. and then you can write your own orders and be ultimately responsible for a panel of your own patients!
I understand it's uncomfortable to talk about rank sometimes, for example I am a supervisor at my job. I believe I am no better than the rank and file as a human, but for the purpose of work I am above them but that doesn't mean I belittle them. Maybe this is where doctors have gone wrong. I have found that good relations with your subordinates goes a looooooong way - say I miss something, loyal employees will look out for you, employees you've treated badly will let it come back on you. Yes I will acknowledge that nurses can be sued, just like employees can (and are) disciplined, but it is almost guaranteed it will come back to the supervisor in some way because the supervisor is considered to be ultimately responsible, similar to the perceived or expected "ultimate responsibility" of the physician.
I completely believe in patient centered care, working as a team of physicians, nurses and allied health, but c'mon isn't it obvious there's a clinical hierarchy here? Why do some nurses feel the need to challenge it?
If I'm missing something or seeing it from a skewed angle, please enlighten me.
That said I came across an article a nurse had shared complaining about doctors. In it said "People need to start seeing physicians and nurses as equal and complementary, too often it is seen as a master-slave relationship."
I agree that they are certainly complementary, even vital, but equal doesn't sit well with me.
Yes they do different things, but if the physician doesn't ultimately run the show then why do nurses need physicians orders? Or why do people say "I'm going to see the doctor."? Why do malpractice lawyers mostly go after the physicians? Why is it that physician training is 2-3x longer and more rigorous the entire way through? Why can't nurses (not talking about NP's just yet) open their own practices? I think because without a physician, their scope of practice is fairly limited. There are things nurses are experts in that physicians aren't (quite a bit on nutrition, various nursing diagnoses which largely pertain to emotional wellbeing), and that's where I can see the "complementary" aspect, but when nurses are working in a medical setting like a hospital, practicing their additional skills (clinical skills carried out per physicians orders), they are acting as vital support staff, not equals. I think a huge problem is that millennials, and a lot of other people in this time take offense to being considered anything less than the HBIC.
Do nurses argue that RN's are equal to NP's? I didn't think so, so why do they think they are equal to MD's? The level and scope of care simply isn't the same. I'm not saying that as an opinion or to be insulting, it's simply a fact. The "Master-Servant" thing was their words, not mine. I think we are getting too politically correct in healthcare - It hurts your feelings that your title is not considered quite equal to someone else with much more education, risk involved, and sacrificed personal life? Then do what they did, and earn the same credentials; or even go NP if you want to be more independent, have prescriptive authority, etc. and then you can write your own orders and be ultimately responsible for a panel of your own patients!
I understand it's uncomfortable to talk about rank sometimes, for example I am a supervisor at my job. I believe I am no better than the rank and file as a human, but for the purpose of work I am above them but that doesn't mean I belittle them. Maybe this is where doctors have gone wrong. I have found that good relations with your subordinates goes a looooooong way - say I miss something, loyal employees will look out for you, employees you've treated badly will let it come back on you. Yes I will acknowledge that nurses can be sued, just like employees can (and are) disciplined, but it is almost guaranteed it will come back to the supervisor in some way because the supervisor is considered to be ultimately responsible, similar to the perceived or expected "ultimate responsibility" of the physician.
I completely believe in patient centered care, working as a team of physicians, nurses and allied health, but c'mon isn't it obvious there's a clinical hierarchy here? Why do some nurses feel the need to challenge it?
If I'm missing something or seeing it from a skewed angle, please enlighten me.
