is NYCOM's cost normal?

[Hemorrage]

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So i was looking at the COA for NYCOM (http://www.nyit.edu/medicine/financialaid/2013-14_cost_of_education/) and i was a bit staggered. Nearly 89k for an entering student that has no financial support from parents (not including a car for transportation).

I was wondering if this was typical for most medical schools and whether this cost was realistic for taking out in loans. If someone took out the COA for 4 years, they would be nearly 400k in debt by the end of medical school without interest. How exactly does someone afford to pay this off?

 

[Aspiringphysician]

Whoa. That's a lotttt. Maybe there's a way to cut down on that medical insurance? That's like $480 a month or something! There has got to be a way to cut that down. Also, 25k for living expenses can DEFINITELY be cut down to 15k. I know it's NY, I know. But I'm sure there are places where you can find a room mate and pay $500 a month for rent. That's $6k a month for room. $150 a month for food (don't go to restaurants, just buy food at normal food stores), which is $1,800. Phone and internet, I'm assuming about $100 a month (you can find cheaper plans though), which is $1200/yr. Car... well it depends. If you have a car, you will probably spend $100 for insurance (depends on how old you are, if you are older it's cheaper), and maybe $70-80 a month on gas? Depends on what kind of car you have. If you want a new car, then add an extra $300 a month for car payments for a new toyota or honda that cost 16-17k. With car payments, your total cost of living would be about 15k. Not 25k. Assuming you can find a cheap apartment with a rooommate in ny

 

[Ogmora]

It's only slightly higher than most DO or Private schools.

You'll get normal, unsubsidized loans up to ~40k and then take out PLUS loans up to the COA. You don't have to use all of the PLUS loans, and the COA is usually a liberal figure that allows you to live nicely. I mean, 25k for living expenses is pretty darn good if you're single living with roommates. So it's up to you if you choose to use all of it. If you're under 26, you're covered by parents health insurance which knocks off another ~5k. By then, you're basically at tuition, books and fees around 57k.

Paying it off is "easier" than it may seem. Most repayment plans place a minimum of 10% of your total principal to be paid off each year. That means with a 400k of debt, you're "only" looking at 40k per year. Subtract that from a conservative primary care net-salary of 150k and you're still looking at 110k take home pay which still puts you in the 90th+ percentile.

On top of that, many hospitals will assist in repayment or even pay off your entire loan balance as a sign-on bonus. If you work for a non-profit hospital/clinic, you're eligible to be forgiven of all loans after 10 years of working there. So in essence, you'd be forgiven of all interest accrued.

Granted, you can't assume you'll be given the bonus or be forgiven, but there are many ways that both hospitals and the gov't make it easier to pay off the absurd amount of debt you accrue.

 

[Aspiringphysician]

It's only slightly higher than most DO or Private schools.

You'll get normal, unsubsidized loans up to ~40k and then take out PLUS loans up to the COA. You don't have to use all of the PLUS loans, and the COA is usually a liberal figure that allows you to live nicely. I mean, 25k for living expenses is pretty darn good if you're single living with roommates. So it's up to you if you choose to use all of it. If you're under 26, you're covered by parents health insurance which knocks off another ~5k. By then, you're basically at tuition, books and fees around 57k.

Paying it off is "easier" than it may seem. Most repayment plans place a minimum of 10% of your total principal to be paid off each year. That means with a 400k of debt, you're "only" looking at 40k per year. Subtract that from a conservative primary care net-salary of 150k and you're still looking at 110k take home pay which still puts you in the 90th+ percentile.

On top of that, many hospitals will assist in repayment or even pay off your entire loan balance as a sign-on bonus. If you work for a non-profit hospital/clinic, you're eligible to be forgiven of all loans after 10 years of working there. So in essence, you'd be forgiven of all interest accrued.

Granted, you can't assume you'll be given the bonus or be forgiven, but there are many ways that both hospitals and the gov't make it easier to pay off the absurd amount of debt you accrue.

Do you have to be covered by parents health insurance if you're under 26? I know that once I'm in med school my parents won't be supporting me anymore so I'll have to find my own health insurance. Also, stafford loans for MED students are 56k per year... 224k total.

 

[Hemorrage]

Whoa. That's a lotttt. Maybe there's a way to cut down on that medical insurance? That's like $480 a month or something! There has got to be a way to cut that down. Also, 25k for living expenses can DEFINITELY be cut down to 15k. I know it's NY, I know. But I'm sure there are places where you can find a room mate and pay $500 a month for rent. That's $6k a month for room. $150 a month for food (don't go to restaurants, just buy food at normal food stores), which is $1,800. Phone and internet, I'm assuming about $100 a month (you can find cheaper plans though), which is $1200/yr. Car... well it depends. If you have a car, you will probably spend $100 for insurance (depends on how old you are, if you are older it's cheaper), and maybe $70-80 a month on gas? Depends on what kind of car you have. If you want a new car, then add an extra $300 a month for car payments for a new toyota or honda that cost 16-17k. With car payments, your total cost of living would be about 15k. Not 25k. Assuming you can find a cheap apartment with a rooommate in ny

I'm not quite sure if this is possible.. Most 2-3 bed apartments on LI are in the 1800-2800 range which means you'll be paying minimum $900/month for rent. I agree with the rest though. I still feel it would come out to quite a bit of money though..

It's only slightly higher than most DO or Private schools.

You'll get normal, unsubsidized loans up to ~40k and then take out PLUS loans up to the COA. You don't have to use all of the PLUS loans, and the COA is usually a liberal figure that allows you to live nicely. I mean, 25k for living expenses is pretty darn good if you're single living with roommates. So it's up to you if you choose to use all of it. If you're under 26, you're covered by parents health insurance which knocks off another ~5k. By then, you're basically at tuition, books and fees around 57k.

Paying it off is "easier" than it may seem. Most repayment plans place a minimum of 10% of your total principal to be paid off each year. That means with a 400k of debt, you're "only" looking at 40k per year. Subtract that from a conservative primary care net-salary of 150k and you're still looking at 110k take home pay which still puts you in the 90th+ percentile.

On top of that, many hospitals will assist in repayment or even pay off your entire loan balance as a sign-on bonus. If you work for a non-profit hospital/clinic, you're eligible to be forgiven of all loans after 10 years of working there. So in essence, you'd be forgiven of all interest accrued.

Granted, you can't assume you'll be given the bonus or be forgiven, but there are many ways that both hospitals and the gov't make it easier to pay off the absurd amount of debt you accrue.

Could you explain the 10% minimum concept? I don't understand how this works. If its 10% minimum, wouldn't it be more than 40k/year?

 

[Ogmora]

Do you have to be covered by parents health insurance if you're under 26? I know that once I'm in med school my parents won't be supporting me anymore so I'll have to find my own health insurance. Also, stafford loans for MED students are 56k per year... 224k total.

You don't have to be...but you can be, up until age 26 then you get kicked off. I assume it would be more cost effective for you to be on their plan, but thats an issue for you and your parents to resolve. You could always use the money you get from loans to pay your parents for the portion of insurance you use, that would almost definitely be cheaper than starting your own plan.

Stafford are 40,500k per year for med, I think the number you have is the lifetime limit for grad students.

https://www.aamc.org/advocacy/meded/79232/federal_student_loans.html

Could you explain the 10% minimum concept? I don't understand how this works. If its 10% minimum, wouldn't it be more than 40k/year?

Standard repayment plans are 120 months, aka 10 years. Divide your principal (and accrued interest) by 10, and thats how much you pay off per year, roughly 10%, a little bit more when factoring in interest. Monthly payments come out to $4,441 if you are single, living in NY with an interest rate of 6%. After 10 years total paid is $532,898 ($400,000 plus $132,898 interest) (I split the difference between the 5.4% on stafford loans and 6.4% on PLUS loans, so the actual interest may be higher than what I have here...PLUS loans also accrue interest as soon as you get them so that may make the final number a little different too)

You can change your repayment plan so that you have lower monthly payments and a longer payment period, but then you accrue more interest. Or you can change it so that it's income based, so if you don't make a certain amount, the payments are smaller. Like I said before, if you work for over 10 years at a non-profit hospital, I believe the feds will also forgive all of your outstanding loan balance.

Check it out here: https://studentloans.gov/myDirectLoan/mobile/repayment/repaymentEstimator.action

 

[Hemorrage]

You don't have to be...but you can be, up until age 26 then you get kicked off. I assume it would be more cost effective for you to be on their plan, but thats an issue for you and your parents to resolve. You could always use the money you get from loans to pay your parents for the portion of insurance you use, that would almost definitely be cheaper than starting your own plan.

Stafford are 40,500k per year for med, I think the number you have is the lifetime limit for grad students.

https://www.aamc.org/advocacy/meded/79232/federal_student_loans.html



Standard repayment plans are 120 months, aka 10 years. Divide your principal (and accrued interest) by 10, and thats how much you pay off per year, roughly 10%, a little bit more when factoring in interest. Monthly payments come out to $4,441 if you are single, living in NY with an interest rate of 6%. After 10 years total paid is $532,898 ($400,000 plus $132,898 interest) (I split the difference between the 5.4% on stafford loans and 6.4% on PLUS loans, so the actual interest may be higher than what I have here...PLUS loans also accrue interest as soon as you get them so that may make the final number a little different too)

You can change your repayment plan so that you have lower monthly payments and a longer payment period, but then you accrue more interest. Or you can change it so that it's income based, so if you don't make a certain amount, the payments are smaller. Like I said before, if you work for over 10 years at a non-profit hospital, I believe the feds will also forgive all of your outstanding loan balance.

Check it out here: https://studentloans.gov/myDirectLoan/mobile/repayment/repaymentEstimator.action

Geez.. $4.5k a month? Isn't that considered a sizable portion of a physician's post-tax income? And thanks so much for explaining all this. I'm trying really hard to decide between a few programs.

 

[Ogmora]

Geez.. $4.5k a month? Isn't that considered a sizable portion of a physician's post-tax income? And thanks so much for explaining all this. I'm trying really hard to decide between a few programs.

No problem. IMO, you'll rack up debt anywhere you go, so it's more important to go somewhere you like.

Yea, 4.5k a month is a sizeable portion. But even if you were making a >50th percentile, primary care net-income of 1500,000, you still walk away with 96k which is more than ~90% of Americans.

 

[DocWinter]

Another cool fact is that physicians who went to a less expensive college for the same degree make the same as those who went to a higher priced college for....the same degree.

It's true you'll make 150k or whatever after it's all said and done. But still, would you not pay off the 40, 60 or 80K in loans faster and take home that much more?

Just my .02. I'm the frugal kind.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Another cool fact is that physicians who went to a less expensive college for the same degree make the same as those who went to a higher priced college for....the same degree.

It's true you'll make 150k or whatever after it's all said and done. But still, would you not pay off the 40, 60 or 80K in loans faster and take home that much more?

Just my .02. I'm the frugal kind.

Tons of people don't have a choice. I suppose you could just not apply to any high priced schools, but the number you'd be left with is getting smaller and smaller, especially since most DO schools are private.

 

[NYEMMED]

So i was looking at the COA for NYCOM (http://www.nyit.edu/medicine/financialaid/2013-14_cost_of_education/) and i was a bit staggered. Nearly 89k for an entering student that has no financial support from parents (not including a car for transportation).

I was wondering if this was typical for most medical schools and whether this cost was realistic for taking out in loans. If someone took out the COA for 4 years, they would be nearly 400k in debt by the end of medical school without interest. How exactly does someone afford to pay this off?

It won't cost that much... Thats a gross over estimation of cost of attendance
I think I spent 60-65k per year with tuition included when I was there.

 

[Aspiringphysician]

I wanna apply to lake eerie lol. Their tuition is dirt cheap, 30k per year, even cheaper than my state MD school!

 

[Ogmora]

Another cool fact is that physicians who went to a less expensive college for the same degree make the same as those who went to a higher priced college for....the same degree.

It's true you'll make 150k or whatever after it's all said and done. But still, would you not pay off the 40, 60 or 80K in loans faster and take home that much more?

Just my .02. I'm the frugal kind.

haha well yea, but for that higher priced college you get to say you went to...a higher priced college.

IMO, frugality is most definitely important, but at what cost? Obviously there are trade-offs here and there, but in the end, if you are at a place you like vs. a place you felt obligated to go because of cost, who knows what effects the stress and dissatisfaction of living and attending a less-than-preferred school will have on your academics and future career. Save money, live stressfully/unhappily, do poorly on boards and wind up in that 150k position (or worse)...OR, spend a 'little' more, enjoy your time at school, feel motivated to succeed and land a 300k position where you can pay back your loans in half the time. Obviously it's subjective, but FWIW I made my choice for undergrad and grad school based on cost and I told myself I wouldn't make the same mistake for med school...even if the resulting debt is 10 times as much.

 

[DocWinter]

Tons of people don't have a choice. I suppose you could just not apply to any high priced schools, but the number you'd be left with is getting smaller and smaller, especially since most DO schools are private.

Sure, perhaps, but I would wager that if you can get into NYCOM, statistically speaking, you surely would have had luck elsewhere in other schools that cost less. Besides being pricey, NYCOM is known for being as highly selective and difficult to land an acceptance as they come.

I 'm one of those who don't have the choice - I have 1 acceptance. But if I had to choose between what I will have, an estimated COA of 61K, or NYCOMs estimated COA of 89K (or MSU OOS, 80k tuition alone, yikes), I'mma gonna save me the 100+grand and dunk it down somewhere else.

Sure the COA is bloated, perhaps, but you get my point.

Anyway, best of luck to the OP. NYCOM isn't going out of business charging 90k for a year of education, so it must pay off in the end. It's just not the beat of my drum.

 

[Hemorrage]

It won't cost that much... Thats a gross over estimation of cost of attendance
I think I spent 60-65k per year with tuition included when I was there.

How? wouldn't that only leave you with ~10k for everything related to life for the rest of the year??

 

[soitgoes32]

How? wouldn't that only leave you with ~10k for everything related to life for the rest of the year??

It will be more for this year because tuition goes up every year. Equivalent for now is probably 70000 for a realistic estimate IMO.

 

[snap660]

Well someone mentioned that the price was the same but it is not so I'd like to clarify the actual cost of tuition at NYCOM a little bit.

In order to better compare the cost between each school you have to look at the COA (cost of attendance) because NYCOM, for example, is more expensive than you think. There are a lot of 'hidden' fees which brings up the cost. The way it works at NYCOM is they show you the cost of the class before you (2015 in this case) and off to the side mention that your tuition should be 7-10% more.

I picked up a copy of the financial aid packet given to interviewees and here is what you can expect to pay as a member of the 2016 class:

Class of 2016 (Not actually shown, you have to calculate it yourself)
First year - Tuition: 52,871, misc fees: 1,300, NYCOM's health insurance: 5,200
Second year - T: 56,872, m: 1,100, NHI: 5,896
Third year - T: 60,533, m: 1,100, NHI: 6,485
Fourth year - T: 64,770, m 1,100, NHI: ~7,000

As you can see, because NYCOM's COA is very deceiving, this school tries to lure you in by giving you last year's figures--which are high but not high enough to scare you away. This does not include the cost of living because that is variable but let me assure you, living on LI is not cheap.

If you can afford to take on this much debt, you better be going to CCOM because at least you'll be getting your money's worth.

EDIT: And by the way, four years ago, I turned down PCOM, UMDNJ, and TOURO-NY because I thought NYCOM's location would give me an advantage but it turns out I was wrong. Not only did these schools cost A LOT less, they are exponentially better. If I could go back, I would have attended UMDNJ but hindsight is always 20/20.

This is from another thread, but that tuition is huge especially at the increased rate it's going up.

 

[user3]

It's only slightly higher than most DO or Private schools.

You'll get normal, unsubsidized loans up to ~40k and then take out PLUS loans up to the COA. You don't have to use all of the PLUS loans, and the COA is usually a liberal figure that allows you to live nicely. I mean, 25k for living expenses is pretty darn good if you're single living with roommates. So it's up to you if you choose to use all of it. If you're under 26, you're covered by parents health insurance which knocks off another ~5k. By then, you're basically at tuition, books and fees around 57k.

Paying it off is "easier" than it may seem. Most repayment plans place a minimum of 10% of your total principal to be paid off each year. That means with a 400k of debt, you're "only" looking at 40k per year. Subtract that from a conservative primary care net-salary of 150k and you're still looking at 110k take home pay which still puts you in the 90th+ percentile.

On top of that, many hospitals will assist in repayment or even pay off your entire loan balance as a sign-on bonus. If you work for a non-profit hospital/clinic, you're eligible to be forgiven of all loans after 10 years of working there. So in essence, you'd be forgiven of all interest accrued.

Granted, you can't assume you'll be given the bonus or be forgiven, but there are many ways that both hospitals and the gov't make it easier to pay off the absurd amount of debt you accrue.

not exactly. PAYE actually caps repayment at 10% of income - poverty line (currently about $17k). Example: $200,000 - $17,000 = $183,000. Annual repayment would be $18,300.

20 years of this payment results in loan forgiveness. Currently it is taxable, but I remember reading somewhere that Obama is trying to change that.

 

[TreadLightly]

On top of that, many hospitals will assist in repayment or even pay off your entire loan balance as a sign-on bonus. If you work for a non-profit hospital/clinic, you're eligible to be forgiven of all loans after 10 years of working there. So in essence, you'd be forgiven of all interest accrued.

Dude...I've heard of this but wasn't sure if it was true or not. Do you know of any sources/hospitals that do this that I can check out? Do you sign a contract with the hospital to work for a certain number of years in return?

 

[Silent Cool]

That means at the end of a 3-year residency you will owe about 520k+, assuming 7.35% interest.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Dude...I've heard of this but wasn't sure if it was true or not. Do you know of any sources/hospitals that do this that I can check out? Do you sign a contract with the hospital to work for a certain number of years in return?

Don't count on it. Some places looking to fill difficult to find positions will offer loan repayment, but it isn't anywhere close to covering your entire loan. Typically you sign on for a period in exchange for the loan repayment help. No one is going to drop 300k+ as a sign on bonus (unless we are talking military).

 

[Ogmora]

Dude...I've heard of this but wasn't sure if it was true or not. Do you know of any sources/hospitals that do this that I can check out? Do you sign a contract with the hospital to work for a certain number of years in return?

Don't count on it. Some places looking to fill difficult to find positions will offer loan repayment, but it isn't anywhere close to covering your entire loan. Typically you sign on for a period in exchange for the loan repayment help. No one is going to drop 300k+ as a sign on bonus (unless we are talking military).

WeeIceMan is right. Some, very few, will cover your entire loan. More will help with repayment. For the most part it's to fill positions that are low or difficult to find.

 

[Ogmora]

not exactly. PAYE actually caps repayment at 10% of income - poverty line (currently about $17k). Example: $200,000 - $17,000 = $183,000. Annual repayment would be $18,300.

20 years of this payment results in loan forgiveness. Currently it is taxable, but I remember reading somewhere that Obama is trying to change that.

So essentially, it's even easier than I made it seem. I thought PAYE resulted in a longer repayment period with lower monthlies but increased interest due to the extend period of time on the loan. Good to know PAYE has a cap and forgiveness, thanks @user3

 

[Hemorrage]

That means at the end of a 3-year residency you will owe about 520k+, assuming 7.35% interest.

Is this kind of debt sustainable?

 

[Postictal Raiden]

So essentially, it's even easier than I made it seem. I thought PAYE resulted in a longer repayment period with lower monthlies but increased interest due to the extend period of time on the loan. Good to know PAYE has a cap and forgiveness, thanks @user3

for those who want to learn more about PAYE/IBR, read http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/another-ibr-paye-question-about-interest.1054908/