Is PA school just as intense as med school?

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mednoob said:
Is the 2 years of PA school just as intense as med school?
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dude, i don't know where you're going with all these questions the past few weeks, but are you really serious?
i'm almost slapping myself in the face just responding to this...
how about doing some research/reading...

not to be an a$$, but c'mon..
 
only someone who has attended both can answer that question.
pm pacmatt or bandit and they can help you out.
 
dfk said:
dude, i don't know where you're going with all these questions the past few weeks, but are you really serious?
i'm almost slapping myself in the face just responding to this...
how about doing some research/reading...

not to be an a$$, but c'mon..
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i do a lot of research but questions like these are hard to get answers to unless you just ask people that have been through it already.
 
emedpa said:
only someone who has attended both can answer that question.
pm pacmatt or bandit and they can help you out.
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My thoughts exactly!

No one else is really qualified to comment although I would seriously doubt that PA school is equivalent to med school.

Difficult, yes it was. I just seriously doubt it is as intense.
 
Chronic Student said:
My thoughts exactly!

No one else is really qualified to comment although I would seriously doubt that PA school is equivalent to med school.

Difficult, yes it was. I just seriously doubt it is as intense.
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Thx yea that's how I pictured it to be. Difficult, but not intense.
 
mednoob said:
Thx yea that's how I pictured it to be. Difficult, but not intense.
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Don't misunderstand me. It was both difficult and intense.

I just don't think it is as intense.

If you asked a lot of my classmates they would tell you that they thought it was very intense.
 
my program was m-f 8-5 with occassional weekends for a yr then rotations 50-100+ hrs/week for 54 weeks.
fairly intense.....
haven't been to medschool so can't comment on ms1/ms2. worked side by side with ms3/ms4 students during my clinical yr with the same hrs, call,responsibilities, and preceptor expectations that they had.
 
i do a lot of research but questions like these are hard to get answers to unless you just ask people that have been through it already.
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I don't believe even someone who's done both could accurately compare.

By doing one first, you alter the experience of the second. Do med school first, then PA school - PA school's bound to be easier than it would've been had you done it first. Do PA school first, you'll find med school easier than you otherwise would have.

The longer you study anything, the easier it gets.
 
Thank you for the responses. Wow, I didn't know the clinical years for PA students were comparable to those of med school students.

This thread is still open of course to anyone who wants to provide more input.
 
mednoob said:
Thank you for the responses. Wow, I didn't know the clinical year for PA students were comparable to those of med school students.
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Fixed that for you.
 
mednoob,

I will preface this by saying that the PA degree is a good degree and my friends in it are working very hard to achieve it.

  • In terms of the depth and breadth of didactic material, clinical training, and academic acumen required, Medical School (Doctor of Medicine, Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine) is more rigorous than PA school.

Comparison of MD/DO training to PA training

MD/DO

Length: 4 yrs+3-5 yr residency
Level: clinical doctorate
Basic Science: 2 yrs


PA

Length: 2 yrs
Level: Mostly Masters, some certificate, associates,
and bachelors programs still out there.
Basic Science Training: 1 year

The school where I attend has a DO program and a PA program as well. In terms of didactic education, the medical school is far more difficult and in more depth. How can one expect a two year program to compete with a 4 yr plus 3-5 yrs of residency? Not a fair comparison. apples to oranges!



Any comments from medical students on here?
 
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I'm gonna take a wild guess that everyone posting here knows the basic differences in education for these two careers.

I don't think anyone was trying to say that the PA degree is harder or as hard as medical school, but intensity is a different question. Learning all your didactic knowledge in one year as opposed to two has a different feel, as does having one year of clinical rotations as opposed to stretching out over 2 plus electives, etc.
 
lapelirroja said:
I don't think anyone was trying to say that the PA degree is harder or as hard as medical school, but intensity is a different question. Learning all your didactic knowledge in one year as opposed to two has a different feel, as does having one year of clinical rotations as opposed to stretching out over 2 plus electives, etc.
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Yeah, they basically stretch it out for us to make it less intense . . . :laugh:
 
That's not exactly what I meant either. Maybe stretch is not the word I should have used. Just different experiences all around with similar subject matter. I just thought it was strange someone felt the need to outline the difference in degrees....

I think PA school is a sprinting race and med school/residency is a marathon. At the end of both, you're expected to be at least partly competent. The challenge with PA school is the short amount of time and the challenge with med school is learning everything they want you to and trying to keep your desire for practicing medicine after they mercilessly beat you. Both hard, in different ways. The challenges one faces with medical education (mostly length) are why I'm going to be a PA.
 
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lapelirroja said:
That's not exactly what I meant either. Maybe stretch is not the word I should have used. Just different experiences all around with similar subject matter. I just thought it was strange someone felt the need to outline the difference in degrees....

I think PA school is a sprinting race and med school/residency is a marathon. At the end of both, you're expected to be at least partly competent. The challenge with PA school is the short amount of time and the challenge with med school is learning everything they want you to and trying to keep your desire for practicing medicine after they mercilessly beat you. Both hard, in different ways. The challenges one faces with medical education (mostly length) are why I'm going to be a PA.
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Med school is both a sprint and a marathon my friend. Make no mistake.
 
I think it should be understandable what lapelirroja meant. As much as a sprint as anyone thinks med school is, in no way is it quite the 2-year slam-bam of PA school.
 
Sunfire,

All due respect but I really don't think you quite understand the dichotomy between a Medical School Program and a Physician Assistant Program! My best friend went through a PA program recently so I can give you a basis of comparison. He as well as 2 of my current friends went through PA Basic Sciences and due to the lack of time 1 yr of basic science versus 2, they had to cover a lot of "superficial" material in a short period of time versus the medical students covering a lot of "more depth" at a fast pace over a LONGER period of time! I tutored anatomy and I can tell you with conviction that the level of anatomical material covered by the PA students pailed in comparison to what the medical students have. I also tutored neuroanatomy which again went into FAR more depth for the medical students than PA. I think the PA degree is an excellent allied health degree to train effective supervised (By MD/DO) mid-level clinicians with a great salary relative to the time put in BUT it is not in ANY way comparable to a Medical Degree in terms of depth and scope of training. It is a great degree in terms of cost versus benefit but it is unreasonable to compare it to a medical degree.
 
First off, you misspelled 'paled'. I could make some tutoring suggestions here, but I'll refrain.

You're going off track regarding my statement. Regardless of the nature of MD/DO programs, PA education must have the student ready for clinical rotations in approximately one year. The obvious 'sprint-like' nature of such a preparation seems quite obvious to me and I fail to understand why anyone would take it as some type of insult or degradation towards/of their own professional education.
 
Look at it this way. Both medical school and PA school have approximately a 5% fail out rate. However PA school does this in half the time😉.

David Carpenter, PA-C
 
Oh Gee thanks Sunfire for your years of experience and wonderful advice🙄 Some of us are NOT in undergrad anymore and have a REAL course load (clinical doctorate program). I am so sorry that I made a typo that caused you so much dismay. Why don't you troll the sites on SDN and find a lot of mispelled words by different practicing doctors (residents, etc..) and correct them on it.....oh....that's right........they are BUSY!!!!!!!! lol Just like I am! Regarding your ridiculous assumption that I am degrading PA by just stating the "facts" you and your lack of experience in life are in for a harsh reality in the future. Actually I have been tutoring for a while so don't need your advice.....Thanks though:meanie:
 
Wow, so many things. First off, what makes you assume that anyone who's an undergrad is automatically young and inexperienced? I did just graduate with my undergrad degree (which did actually involve quite a bit of "REAL" work), but I'm 37. As for your inference that I have no experience, I've actually been an EMT for the last 7 years. I also have additional experience in Alzheimer's care, pediatric ICU, and the ED. Thirdly, does being a doctorate student somehow exempt you from responsibility in making mistakes? Oh, yes, a fine professional you'll make and a joy to work with I'm sure, if every time someone corrects you turn into an upset and beet-faced name-calling ball of blunder. Get rid of your propensity to pounce, that would be my main suggestion to you.

As for reality, I'm not sure just what reality you're referring to, but I've worked along physicians and physician assistants for years. I'm well aware of the capacities of both. And, although I'm not starting MD/DO education in a few weeks, I am starting PA education. My rational processes of cognition tell me that a PA education is more of a sprint than a marathon, compared to MD/DO education. If you or someone else doesn't like the words "sprint" or "marathon" (and also, I wasn't saying that you were degrading the PA educational model, I was actually saying that you seemed to be suggesting that someone was degrading or insulting the MD/DO educational model, or depth, or whatever else you want to bring up), then I would suggest you find a different set of words which will adequately describe the difference between the two without making you feel as if someone is threatening or insulting you or anyone else.

Any "dismay" I felt was towards your pompous attitude. I wasn't trying to belittle the amount of education in an MD/DO program, I wasn't trying to infer that an MD/DO program doesn't present immense difficulties and challenges, or that an MD/DO program doesn't obviously entail more training than a PA program. I was simply trying to clarify the statement that lapelirroja was trying to make and which DOCTORSAIB responded to, a statement which I still find to be reasonable and appropriate.

It sounds to me as if you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder, and I hope that you're able to work through that issue before you actually hit the floor with that sneer on your face. Because no one, professional or patient, is going to want to work with you if you're a) exempt from acknowledging mistakes with grace and honor, and b) walking around telling everyone how inferior their education is.

By the way...I've actually been studying neuroanatomy for the last 2 days. Dural sinus blood flow is just awesome stuff. I will never look at a head the same way again.
 
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Sunfire,
It seems to me that Oculo is tired of being shat upon for not being a "real" doctor and "just" an OD so he/she feels the need to reiterate: "but look, see, midlevels aren't as important/smart/amazing as I; I have a CLINICAL DOCTORATE!!!!!!!"

Congrats on starting your program--I can't wait to begin mine! ~50 days left!
 
lapelirroja,


Are you 5 yrs old? ! You sound like a child making an inflammatory statement like that statement like that. lol OD's are the primary eye doctors. I chose this path over DO medical school (I got in both)---duh. So are DO's tired of getting "shat" on by MD's?---by your line of reasoning--yes..LOL Dentists, Podiatrists, and optometrists are all "real doctors" just limited license by design and limited to one body system in terms of scope.

Back to the main topic of this thread before lapelirroja made a comment that disrespects (OD's, DDS's, and DPM's), I was just trying to point out that PA school and Med school are just programs at different levels of learning (Masters--2yrs vs Doctorate 4 yrs+ residency) and that it is not fair to PA to compare it to MD/DO. So WHY DO IT???????
 
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Sunfire,

First I must tell you that I am also in my 30's so there is a commonality that we share. Second I felt you were being pompous towards me! Hence the "spirited" response that you got from me....😀 I am an old-school warrior and always will be BUT I will inject facts into my arguments most of the time.
 
I'm not degrading your profession at all--I think it's a great one that I, myself might have looked more into if I didn't absolutely hate eyes. I'm just saying, judging by the attitudes on SDN, others have probably shat on you and that probably makes you bitter. But you don't have to take it out on midlevels, we know you have a doctoral degree in medicine. We have (literally or essentially) Master's degrees in medicine because that's what we chose to do. Both are hard.

Just wanted to clarify.

EDIT: So after I clarify my statements saying that the beliefs are not mine but rather the common attitude on here which would probably cause anyone in the other field of medicine to become bitter, you edit your post to make it even more insulting towards me. My comment was not directed to anyone with any of those degrees/professions, it was YOU and YOUR ATTITUDES. It has nothing to do with ODs. Its YOU being an OD and feeling the need to explain it to everyone over here. Why do you feel the need to be on the clinicians board anyways? If you were secure enough in your own degree (which, yes you should be proud of) than maybe you wouldn't come over here to remind everyone, "I HAVE A CLINICAL DOCTORATE, YOU DON'T, I'M BETTER THAN YOU." And maybe I am 5 years old? Who cares? Thanks for calling me a *****. I appreciate it.
 
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Sunfire said:
As for reality, I'm not sure just what reality you're referring to, but I've worked along physicians and physician assistants for years. I'm well aware of the capacities of both.
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I worked as a CNA among MDs and PAs for many years prior to medical school.

Let me assure you, you have no idea what their capacities are, because you lack the educational/intellectual foundation to understand their work, and because you only have access to a small portion of their actual work.

Not a put down, just pointing out that proximity does not equal understanding.
 
Tired, that's a judgment on your part. You don't know me, my mind, or my life. I wrote a paper on Emergency Care of Gunshot Trauma in my first year of community college and one on Pediatric Brain Trauma in my second. That's not mentioning the rest of the work I've done following. I wrote a 20 page paper on the evidence of neurogenesis in the adult human brain before a formal book had even been published on the subject. I'll thank you not to make presumptions about my intellectual foundation and my ability to understand.

I agree with you regarding educational foundation. Obviously since I haven't yet been through PA school nor have I gone through medical school, I can't speak first-hand. However, I have done quite a bit of searching into the curriculum of both. And regardless of what words people feel comfortable with, the PA programs ready students for clinical rotations in roughly one year. That's fast, and to me, a sprint versus a marathon (longer education, none the less stringent to be sure, of medical school).

I will have to disagree with you again on your statement that I have had access to only a small part of the work of physicians and physician assistants. Perhaps that's been your experience, but it hasn't been mine. Limited, to be sure, but it would still be inaccurate to agree with your words. I was always allowed in the docs office in the last ER I was in, and they often engaged me in discussion regarding scans and situations. Shadowing a PA there for 100 hours created even more of an opportunity for me to get quite an accurate insight as to what goes on behind closed doors. I don't have to be a PA or an MD/DO to understand what it is that they do, observe how they go about doing those things, or question how and why they make their decisions. And many times, that questioning involved asking a doctor or a PA themselves. If you're walkin' by, I most likely have a question for you!😎

I guess I've gotten as much "reality" as I can possibly get at this point, and I certainly stand by my thought that I have a good idea of the capacities of both professions. I know I still have a long way to go, and I'm very much looking forward to the journey.
 
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Sunfire said:
I guess I've gotten as much "reality' as I can possibly get at this point, and I certainly stand by my thought that I have a good idea of the capacities of both professions.
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Think what you want.

I was there, and felt exactly the same way you do right now.

I was wrong, so are you.

You'll get it later.
 
Med school is 4 years long...
Is that a solid 4 years... or do these students take breaks and summers off....???

Also...

What happens during year 4/match year...???
Does interview time count as medical learning...???

How many weeks of class time are spent actually studying medicine in those 4 years...???

I read somewhere that the actual difference was something like 110 weeks for PAs and 145-150 for MDs.

Please clarify...

Thanks
 
Done both...Med school is harder and you have to know way more.
 
it comes down to what you want at the end. Both schools (PA or MD/DO) are gonna kick your ass, i'm a DO and it was tough. Just know before you decide, length of schooling, autonomy, student loans. Trust me, once you're out practicing, all it comes down to is your performance and your pressganey score. If you work for a hospital/group (as me in ER), its your efficiency. Other specialty, its how you could bring business (like my surgeon buddies). I find title matters less and less the more years i've been practicing (PGY4 ER currently) and you are first and foremost defined by your specialty. So think long and hard before choosing each route, MD/DO is great, you'll be in control of your practice or the way you want to practice but it is long as hell. I'm in 30 and next year will finally start my career (4 yrs med school and 4 yrs residency). As a PA you could start your career faster and with less student loans. So don't worry so much about how tough the classes are between the two, doesn't matter in the end.
 
another thing to research if you decide to go PA is how a PA in the specialty you're interested in is utilized in your area. Like in ER, a PA's job description could run from just triaging to fully manage a patient depending on the hospital. so do your homework.
 
Sunfire said:
Tired, that's a judgment on your part. You don't know me, my mind, or my life. I wrote a paper on Emergency Care of Gunshot Trauma in my first year of community college and one on Pediatric Brain Trauma in my second. That's not mentioning the rest of the work I've done following. I wrote a 20 page paper on the evidence of neurogenesis in the adult human brain before a formal book had even been published on the subject. I'll thank you not to make presumptions about my intellectual foundation and my ability to understand.

I agree with you regarding educational foundation. Obviously since I haven't yet been through PA school nor have I gone through medical school, I can't speak first-hand. However, I have done quite a bit of searching into the curriculum of both. And regardless of what words people feel comfortable with, the PA programs ready students for clinical rotations in roughly one year. That's fast, and to me, a sprint versus a marathon (longer education, none the less stringent to be sure, of medical school).

I will have to disagree with you again on your statement that I have had access to only a small part of the work of physicians and physician assistants. Perhaps that's been your experience, but it hasn't been mine. Limited, to be sure, but it would still be inaccurate to agree with your words. I was always allowed in the docs office in the last ER I was in, and they often engaged me in discussion regarding scans and situations. Shadowing a PA there for 100 hours created even more of an opportunity for me to get quite an accurate insight as to what goes on behind closed doors. I don't have to be a PA or an MD/DO to understand what it is that they do, observe how they go about doing those things, or question how and why they make their decisions. And many times, that questioning involved asking a doctor or a PA themselves. If you're walkin' by, I most likely have a question for you!😎

I guess I've gotten as much "reality' as I can possibly get at this point, and I certainly stand by my thought that I have a good idea of the capacities of both professions. I know I still have a long way to go, and I'm very much looking forward to the journey.
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This smells like a personal statement.

Tired is right, you have no idea what you're talking about. Being allowed in "doc's offices" and engaging you in discussions regarding "scans and situations" DOES NOT mean you know what they're thinking. They may tell you the working diagnosis but the differential can be a huge list and that requires the rigors of medical school, residency and clinical experience to formulate.

Plus medicine is more than just working in the ED. So your experience, as amazing as it may seem to you, is still extremely limited.
 
As to your attitude, DOCTORSAIB, I'm insightful enough to know that it's coming from the stresses and strains of years of hard work so I'll give you that. And yes, your 'olfactory' sense is correct, my words 'smell' like a personal statement, because they are part of a statement based on my own personal life and experience. Your seeming attempt to invalidate my thoughts and experiences doesn't change anything.

I need to clarify so that you don't continue to put words into my mouth. NOWHERE did I say that I know what docs and PAs are thinking. I was speaking of understanding the capacities of both professions, understanding the differences between them, and having the rational ability to analyze their processes. Why you would presume that I somehow feel I know as much as an experienced doctor or PA (or medical resident, for that matter), I can only leave you to your own security structures on that one. I already said that I realize I have a long way to go and I that I'm looking forward to all of it. Further, I'm sure I've had experiences that you've not and vice-versa. Even the most seasoned doctor or PA most likely has yet to experience things that others (clinicians or not) have observed or been through.

Finally, you misquoted me. The last ER I worked in didn't have "docs offices" (as you stated I wrote), there was one office, which is why I stated "docs office" in my writing.
 
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PA school and medical school are both sprints, at a 6 minute per mile pace, run through the same neighborhood, from the same starting point to the same finish line. It's just that the PA sprint is 2 miles, and the MD/DO sprint is 4 miles. By necessity, the PA students have to keep to the main roads to reach the finish line in only 2 miles. Med students are expected to take every side street and cul-de-sac available in their journey.

At the end, both may know how to navigate the neighborhood, know which streets cross where, and have a good grasp on the demographics of the area. But only the med students will be able to tell you how many cars, what type, and what color sit in every driveway of every house on every street in the entire area. In casual conversation, or even observing them work, you might get the impression that both learned pretty much the same thing from their races. But probe deeper, and you'll find that only one knows that the guy in 2034 on Rainbow Circle prefers charcoal to gas, and that his neighbor's wife is hot.
 
osli said:
PA school and medical school are both sprints, at a 6 minute per mile pace, run through the same neighborhood, from the same starting point to the same finish line. It's just that the PA sprint is 2 miles, and the MD/DO sprint is 4 miles. By necessity, the PA students have to keep to the main roads to reach the finish line in only 2 miles. Med students are expected to take every side street and cul-de-sac available in their journey.

At the end, both may know how to navigate the neighborhood, know which streets cross where, and have a good grasp on the demographics of the area. But only the med students will be able to tell you how many cars, what type, and what color sit in every driveway of every house on every street in the entire area. In casual conversation, or even observing them work, you might get the impression that both learned pretty much the same thing from their races. But probe deeper, and you'll find that only one knows that the guy in 2034 on Rainbow Circle prefers charcoal to gas, and that his neighbor's wife is hot.
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hmmm not bad...not bad at all
 
Very impressive analogy.
Although I think the medical school is more like 5.5 miles, counting a typical 3-year residency.
😉

osli said:
PA school and medical school are both sprints, at a 6 minute per mile pace, run through the same neighborhood, from the same starting point to the same finish line. It's just that the PA sprint is 2 miles, and the MD/DO sprint is 4 miles. By necessity, the PA students have to keep to the main roads to reach the finish line in only 2 miles. Med students are expected to take every side street and cul-de-sac available in their journey.

At the end, both may know how to navigate the neighborhood, know which streets cross where, and have a good grasp on the demographics of the area. But only the med students will be able to tell you how many cars, what type, and what color sit in every driveway of every house on every street in the entire area. In casual conversation, or even observing them work, you might get the impression that both learned pretty much the same thing from their races. But probe deeper, and you'll find that only one knows that the guy in 2034 on Rainbow Circle prefers charcoal to gas, and that his neighbor's wife is hot.
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:corny:

May I remind everyone that the OP wanted to know if PA school is just as intense as medical school. He/she is not asking which one is harder... just saying... I spoke to a PA and she did say it is just as intense, I mean some of the schools you have to take some med school courses, and an average of 23 credits a semester (2-year programs). So I believe that it is just as intense. As far as comparison goes... I wouldn't know.

c.s.
 
centersharpie said:
:corny:

May I remind everyone that the OP wanted to know if PA school is just as intense as medical school. He/she is not asking which one is harder... just saying... I spoke to a PA and she did say it is just as intense, I mean some of the schools you have to take some med school courses, and an average of 23 credits a semester (2-year programs). So I believe that it is just as intense. As far as comparison goes... I wouldn't know.

c.s.
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did she go to medical school too?
 
Sunfire, may I ask you why, if you are a PA student, you list yourself as a "Medical Student"
 
I've seen that in a few places, I think it's because SDN doesn't have a PA Student category, and it seems to fit better than Health Student, since in the end the graduates will be practicing medicine (albeit under the supervision of a physician).
 
Thank you, lapelirroja, for explaining. My father's PA switched his blood pressure medication a couple of months ago. If that isn't practicing medicine "(albeit under the supervision of a physician)", I don't know what is.

It was the most appropriate from the options provided. Please make no mistake, I'm not entering into this profession to pass out crayons or counsel patients on their financial investments. I'm going into this profession to practice medicine as an asset to the physician(s) I work with.
 
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Switching meds is, I think, one of the lower-level tiers of "practicing medicine" for us.
Remember there are clinical pharmacists who manage meds in the hospital and outpatient on medical teams.
How about recognition and management of acute dyspnea, or working up that belly pain, or reducing that fractured metacarpal, or a typical H&P...getting to the bottom of the problem, working through a differential diagnosis, narrowing it down to the most likely causes, ordering and interpreting ancillary tests, formulating and instituting an appropriate management plan...(could be any number of presenting complaints).
Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of brain power that goes into changing BP meds, but it's a tiny piece of the puzzle of what we do.
Now, oops, I've derailed the topic. As far as "as intense", I agree with EMED that only a PA who's done both PA and med school (soundman, Bandit, a few others on this board) have any inkling here. For the rest of us it's speculation.


Sunfire said:
Thank you, lapelirroja, for explaining. My father's PA switched his blood pressure medication a few months ago. If that isn't practicing medicine, I don't know what is.

It seemed the most appropriate from the options provided.
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I appreciate that education primadonna22274, thank you. I didn't mean to get this thread so off-track, but I'm glad it did because I learned a few things. Back on target!
 
That's a little disingenuous don't you think?

A "medical student" has clearly, for many years, unambiguously, designated someone who is in medical school, not PA school or any other allied health profession. Maybe I'm just being anal today but that bothers me. Do you call an x-ray tech a radiologist? Do you say that a paralegal practices law? Does a dental hygienist practice dentistry?

BTW, for what it's worth, I am not anti-PA. Really. I work with several PAs and I value them but they're not docs and the PA students are not called "medical students."
 
schutzhund said:
That's a little disingenuous don't you think?

A "medical student" has clearly, for many years, unambiguously, designated someone who is in medical school, not PA school or any other allied health profession. Maybe I'm just being anal today but that bothers me. Do you call an x-ray tech a radiologist? Do you say that a paralegal practices law? Does a dental hygienist practice dentistry?

BTW, for what it's worth, I am not anti-PA. Really. I work with several PAs and I value them but they're not docs and the PA students are not called "medical students."
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maybe you could send something to the mods as many of us already have asking for a designation of pa/np student......
 
Agreed...I'm a PA but when I signed up a few years back I selected "pre-medical" since my goal is to go to med school (just getting around to applying now after talking myself out of it...unsuccessfully). Annoying since I'll post something clinical and always feel I have to explain to forumites why I'm qualified to comment.

emedpa said:
maybe you could send something to the mods as many of us already have asking for a designation of pa/np student......
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