Is Perio Residency worth another 400k?

[cmsmith85]

So, this about sums it up.

Didn’t know about the subsidy on the interest. Seriously though, I can’t even imagine dealing with student loans for 25 years...

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Big Hoss

I'm with you there! I can't imagine many things worse than that!

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[Big Time Hoosier]

Seriously though, I can’t even imagine dealing with student loans for 25 years...

Maybe the OP could just bank on the US entering hyperinflation like the Weimar Republic (a legitimate possibility) and they could just pay off that $1,000,000 with a wheelbarrow full of worthless fiat currency. And they could burn whatever fiat they have left to cook like this lady...

Big Hoss

 

[DocMon16]

So, this about sums it up.

Didn’t know about the subsidy on the interest. Seriously though, I can’t even imagine dealing with student loans for 25 years...

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Big Hoss

I am with Big Hoss...not to beat a dead horse here but I am at the back end of residency (OMS here) and I couldn't justify going into another 400k for a specialty. I just don't think you could generate enough revenue to pay this off in ANY reasonable amount of time. If you don't care for paying on debt for 25 years then sure but it just doesn't seem feasible to me.

I hope you figure it out...Its a tough position to be in.

 

[BYU4you]

Let’s assume OP moves forward with perio and ends up owing $1,000,000. Let’s assume they are making $300,000 after graduation. So under IBR, they only have to pay 10 to 15% of their discretionary income. So even at 15% of their total income, they’d be paying $45,000. Not too bad when you’re making $300,000. But, you accrued $70,000 in interest that first year. So, your loan balance actually grew $25,000! Compound that over the next 20 years and they’ll owe A LOT! When the balance is forgiven in 20 years that’s a gnarly tax bomb! Mike Meru the orthodontist whose loans snowballed started with around $600,000 in debt and figures his loan balance will be over $2,000,000 when it’s forgiven. OP could be pushing $3,000,000 to $4,000,000. Do you want to pay a tax bill on $4,000,000 of income, when in reality you make a fraction of that? I’m sure the IRS will be understanding...

Big Hoss

For anyone who was reading this messages earlier. The new Biden IDR plan that was released is actually a big deal (although not game changing) for anyone in these situations. Theres a new section that says if you can’t cover the interest payments they wont be added on. So for duel degree OMFS like myself. This plan from what I understand (which I definitely probably don’t) will essentially mean when the tax bomb comes you are only paying taxes on the principal since the interest isn’t being tacked on. I know there are certain people around here that subscribe to the Dave Ramsey religion of being aggressive with payments , which is great and should always be done first if possible. But I would consider long and hard about this new payment plan because it will allow more discretionary income to invest and you may easily come out on top if you play your cards right.

 

[charlestweed]

For anyone who was reading this messages earlier. The new Biden IDR plan that was released is actually a big deal (although not game changing) for anyone in these situations. Theres a new section that says if you can’t cover the interest payments they wont be added on. So for duel degree OMFS like myself. This plan from what I understand (which I definitely probably don’t) will essentially mean when the tax bomb comes you are only paying taxes on the principal since the interest isn’t being tacked on. I know there are certain people around here that subscribe to the Dave Ramsey religion of being aggressive with payments , which is great and should always be done first if possible. But I would consider long and hard about this new payment plan because it will allow more discretionary income to invest and you may easily come out on top if you play your cards right.

The problem is the government is incompetent. They make up new rules as they go along. The current president does one thing but the next president might reverse it. For a law to become permanent, it has to be passed by both chambers of congress and signed by the president. More than 10 years have passed since the passage of the public loan forgiveness program in 2007. Thousands of people have worked at low paid government jobs and applied for the loan forgiveness with the hope that their loan would be forgiven after 10 years. And so far, less than 1 percent got their loans forgiven. Many have made the minimum payments that didn’t even cover the interest and are now faced with a much bigger loan amount than what they originally owed because the government denied their loan forgiveness applications. They are now much older and have less years to work pay back a much higher amount than they initially borrowed. The government essentially lied to them. I don’t know if the government will keep their promises for those who signed up for IBR, which will forgive their loans after 20 years.…well, we will have to wait and see.

You are likely more successful when you take charge of your own problems instead of relying on the government for help. I haven’t yet met a successful person who became successful because of the help of the government.

 

[Thehighwind87]

wow I’m convinced doctors and dentists are the smartest dumbest people. It takes real brains to go into med dent pharm school… but they are sorta no offense "dumb" when it comes to finances.

 

[BYU4you]

The problem is the government is incompetent. They make up new rules as they go along. The current president does one thing but the next president might reverse it. For a law to become permanent, it has to be passed by both chambers of congress and signed by the president. More than 10 years have passed since the passage of the public loan forgiveness program in 2007. Thousands of people have worked at low paid government jobs and applied for the loan forgiveness with the hope that their loan would be forgiven after 10 years. And so far, less than 1 percent got their loans forgiven. Many have made the minimum payments that didn’t even cover the interest and are now faced with a much bigger loan amount than what they originally owed because the government denied their loan forgiveness applications. They are now much older and have less years to work pay back a much higher amount than they initially borrowed. The government essentially lied to them. I don’t know if the government will keep their promises for those who signed up for IBR, which will forgive their loans after 20 years.…well, we will have to wait and see.

You are likely more successful when you take charge of your own problems instead of relying on the government for help. I haven’t yet met a successful person who became successful because of the help of the government.

That’s some QAnon level thinking right there. I would never knock someone for paying down the debt as fast as possible. But most of us won’t be living in a reality where that’s possible and just ignoring this opportunity because you think “the man” is trying to lure you into some trap isn’t something I will have the luxury of doing. The PSLF stuff you quoted is a lot more complex than you make it sound, the program is barely at the 10 year mark and when that 99% came out most of the people who got rejected didn’t read the rules right such as not having enough qualify payments. A lot of people are swamped in this debt and there is a little more light and the end of the tunnel. Not everyone wants to walk uphill both ways in the snow.

 

[Thehighwind87]

That’s some QAnon level thinking right there. I would never knock someone for paying down the debt as fast as possible. But most of us won’t be living in a reality where that’s possible and just ignoring this opportunity because you think “the man” is trying to lure you into some trap isn’t something I will have the luxury of doing. The PSLF stuff you quoted is a lot more complex than you make it sound, the program is barely at the 10 year mark and when that 99% came out most of the people who got rejected didn’t read the rules right such as not having enough qualify payments. A lot of people are swamped in this debt and there is a little more light and the end of the tunnel. Not everyone wants to walk uphill both ways in the snow.

I dunno if you are working yet in the real world, but I would say when you get into the real world your perspective changes quickly. Always read the fine print and rules can change tommorow.

When you own a business, have responsibilities, etc you realize that there is no lifeboat out there that is gonna help you out, and you honestly can't count on anyone.

That's why if I did have student loans today, I would focus on paying them off and not counting on some changes in payments/forgiveness to help me out, because the real world- ain't fair and it's prob not gonna give you a free pass. However that being said- I wouldn't ignore the opportunity presented- as you stated. But I would def not count on it amount to anything. If it does work out- then great, you have some relief, but if it doesn't- well it probably wasn't going to anyways.

To many people "plan" around certain things like student loan forgiveness, some govt relief, but it never amounts to much. So I would keep the opportunity in sight, but I wouldn't "count" on it working out.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

That’s some QAnon level thinking right there.

Spoken like someone who’s never been screwed by the government or someone who actually thinks the US has money. I just read these changes are projected to cost $200 billion. Biden’s last scheme to give away $400 billion is hung up in the courts. What are the odds this is too?

Big Hoss

Update: The national debt is over $31 trillion, with annual deficits exceeding $1trillion as far as the eye can see. That works out to $95,000 per citizen or $247,000 per tax payer. The country is dead broke. Wait until the world wakes up and stops loaning money to Uncle Sam, that’s when the fun of the debt spiral begins! I would never plan on any help from the government, it’s likely to end in tears.

 

[BYU4you]

You all spent the first part of this thread saying how anyone with this debt is screwed but are also advising not to take advantage of an opportunity to make it work out. Let me repeat I would NOT advise going into dentistry. Period. This change is only for those of us who were tricked into this by people who graduated with no debt and could buy a house on minimum wage. My post was to tell those of us who are already in debt that we have a chance to live a good lifestyle and save some money. Those who expect debts to be forgiven and not save money wisely for the “just in case” are obviously going to get screwed when they realize the forgiveness is taxed etc. but there’s a chance to invest some extra money and end up paying less.

 

[PerioDont]

You all spent the first part of this thread saying how anyone with this debt is screwed but are also advising not to take advantage of an opportunity to make it work out. Let me repeat I would NOT advise going into dentistry. Period. This change is only for those of us who were tricked into this by people who graduated with no debt and could buy a house on minimum wage. My post was to tell those of us who are already in debt that we have a chance to live a good lifestyle and save some money. Those who expect debts to be forgiven and not save money wisely for the “just in case” are obviously going to get screwed when they realize the forgiveness is taxed etc. but there’s a chance to invest some extra money and end up paying less.

On the same page here.

I really hope the original OP of this thread rejected this kind 'offer' to pay 400k for residency.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I was thinking the other day about how contradictory it is that schools emphasize “diversity, equity, and inclusion” in the dental workforce, but then go ahead and charge $500,000+ for a dental education. Soon dental school will only be for the haves, as the have nots would be absolutely crippled by debt for for the majority of their careers.

Big Hoss

 

[PerioDont]

I was thinking the other day about how contradictory it is that schools emphasize “diversity, equity, and inclusion” in the dental workforce, but then go ahead and charge $500,000+ for a dental education. Soon dental school will only be for the haves, as the have nots would be absolutely crippled by debt for for the majority of their careers.

Big Hoss

I was thinking the same thing.

I just hope that the have nots realize what a scam it is and do not get suckered into signing up for the 500k in debt by these promoters (who STILL not give you the Rolex)

 

[charlestweed]

That’s some QAnon level thinking right there. I would never knock someone for paying down the debt as fast as possible. But most of us won’t be living in a reality where that’s possible and just ignoring this opportunity because you think “the man” is trying to lure you into some trap isn’t something I will have the luxury of doing. The PSLF stuff you quoted is a lot more complex than you make it sound, the program is barely at the 10 year mark and when that 99% came out most of the people who got rejected didn’t read the rules right such as not having enough qualify payments. A lot of people are swamped in this debt and there is a little more light and the end of the tunnel. Not everyone wants to walk uphill both ways in the snow.

You can apply for what the government currently offers you right now but you shouldn’t count on it. You shouldn't base your future and your retirement plan on this debt repayment program because like Hoosier pointed out, the government is broke and they can change the rules any time. The government has all the good intentions to help people but they are too incompetent. I just don’t want to see many of you, young grads, end up with a much greater amount of debt and have nothing to save for retirement when you are in your late 50s, 60s because you think the government will take care of you in the end. At 50-60, you should work less and be on a semi-retire mode….and travel to see the world.

It’s just like the social security benefit. I don’t want to base my retirement plans around the SS benefit and count on it as a primary support source for my retirement for 3 reasons:
1. I am not in control of when the rules of SS will change. The retirement age will have to be raised. The available money will probably be a lot less for me than what my dad is receiving right now….and will probably be completely gone for my kid’s generation
2. I want to retire before I claim the SS benefit. I don’t want to work until I am 65.
3. I want to end up with extra money than too little.
That’s why I keep on working (even when I am debt-free) to make sure that I save enough for my retirement. I control my own destiny.

 

[Thehighwind87]

You can apply for what the government currently offers you right now but you shouldn’t count on it. You shouldn't base your future and your retirement plan on this debt repayment program because like Hoosier pointed out, the government is broke and they can change the rules any time. The government has all the good intentions to help people but they are too incompetent. I just don’t want to see many of you, young grads, end up with a much greater amount of debt and have nothing to save for retirement when you are in your late 50s, 60s because you think the government will take care of you in the end. At 50-60, you should work less and be on a semi-retire mode….and travel to see the world.

It’s just like the social security benefit. I don’t want to base my retirement plans around the SS benefit and count on it as a primary support source for my retirement for 3 reasons:
1. I am not in control of when the rules of SS will change. The retirement age will have to be raised. The available money will probably be a lot less for me than what my dad is receiving right now….and will probably be completely gone for my kid’s generation
2. I want to retire before I claim the SS benefit. I don’t want to work until I am 65.
3. I want to end up with extra money than too little.
That’s why I keep on working (even when I am debt-free) to make sure that I save enough for my retirement. I control my own destiny.

This is the best answer on this thread.

I personally don't think I will have any SS left by the time I can collect (35 here). The US is broke as a joke, and I wouldn't be surprised if they cut it and say hey plebs invest in your own retirement (401k).

Yeah they can print more money to make it work, but look where that got us. 9%+ inflation, 7$ starbucks, 1 million dollar starter homes, 15$ dollar lunches and my mcdonalds breakfast...8$.

Print more, and the amount you will get from SS to barely cover groceries.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

by these promoters (who STILL not give you the Rolex)

This is what really bothers me, since I personally don’t have any student loans.

Big Hoss

 

[princeafrica]

diversity,

Hey! at least there's diversity scholarships sooo that makes a dent in the $500k

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I was thinking the other day about how contradictory it is that schools emphasize “diversity, equity, and inclusion” in the dental workforce, but then go ahead and charge $500,000+ for a dental education. Soon dental school will only be for the haves, as the have nots would be absolutely crippled by debt for for the majority of their careers.

Big Hoss

Care to respond to the above, NYU, USC, UPenn, the Midwestern Twins, or many, many others? I know you’re seeing this. You are quite familiar with Big Hoss and he is quite familiar with you.

And as has been pointed out, where’s my watch?! I can find it on the gray market for $115,000. If 10 of you chip in, it’s nothing for you.

Big Hoss

 

[D1Bound]

Care to respond to the above, NYU, USC, UPenn, the Midwestern Twins, or many, many others? I know you’re seeing this. You are quite familiar with Big Hoss and he is quite familiar with you.

And as has been pointed out, where’s my watch?! I can find it on the gray market for $115,000. If 10 of you chip in, it’s nothing for you.

Big Hoss

The more we keep talking about dental school debt the louder this issue will get. Big Time Hoosier naming them by name may actually get this thread noticed by their administration. Pre dental students will search forums and find these and they may start asking questions to these schools about tuition costs. We must protect you at all costs so you aren't censored lol

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Big Time Hoosier naming them by name may actually get this thread noticed by their administration.

I know school administrators check SDN. A few explicitly mentioned that they did when I was interviewing for dental school. That was a decade ago, and SDN is even bigger now.

We must protect you at all costs so you aren't censored lol

Elon Musk has my back. Has the time come for a Dr. B. T. Hoosier Twitter handle...?

Big Hoss