Is rushing a pre-med fraternity remotely even worth it?

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I am thinking about rushing Phi Delta Epsilon at my school. I am a junior so I've obviously sat on it for a while. I know some are in it but not sure if it's worth it. I am pretty involved with the AMSA chapter at my school and have a lot on my plate as an RA, a TA, researching, volunteering (sadly mostly cancelled this year), student government, and resident advisor appraisal and standards board.

Is it worth my time to rush or should I just forget it? Since I am rushing late I don't really know if it's worth my time to rush if it's just for networking.
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What can they offer you?

I mean no one asked a thing about professional honor societies on interviews.

But do you need shadowing? Research? Can they fix you up with doctor alums to get that done?
 
I know several people who did and they got some connections that got them into research, clinical volunteering opps, etc.

If I could go back in time I would have probably done it
 
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I rushed a medical fraternity in undergrad and enjoyed it very much. Made a lot of connections and had a lot of leadership/volunteer/research opportunities. There's a strict no-drinking policy in the fraternity; several members that I know of were immediately terminated for drinking at an event. And we had several medical schools (including our own) and alumni speak to us about their experiences applying and attending medical school.

Honestly, just act professionally. In my opinion, it's very different from a social fraternity/sorority that's more prone to drunken incidents and such (literally witnessed one of our members stumbling home drunk and belligerent from a football game, did not look good for him). I honestly think it's a great opportunity if you're a freshman/sophomore looking for like-minded people that also want to pursue medicine rather than a general premed club. There's more of a tight-knit community and support system rather than random people you recognize in your classes that just so happen to also be attending the club meeting.
 
It's a premed fraternity, not a residential Animal House!!! :laugh:
 
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Plus, I just noticed the reference to "coeds." :laugh: What's up with that? Is it 1960? 😎
 
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habitualnerd said:
I am thinking about rushing Phi Delta Epsilon at my school. I am a junior so I've obviously sat on it for a while. I know some are in it but not sure if it's worth it. I am pretty involved with the AMSA chapter at my school and have a lot on my plate as an RA, a TA, researching, volunteering (sadly mostly cancelled this year), student government, and resident advisor appraisal and standards board.

Is it worth my time to rush or should I just forget it? Since I am rushing late I don't really know if it's worth my time to rush if it's just for networking.
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I have little familiarity with this group. I doubt that mere membership will advance your application.
 
gyngyn said:
I have little familiarity with this group. I doubt that mere membership will advance your application.
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I Googled it after the OP. It's a legit medical profession fraternity, with chapters at many medical schools, as well as premed chapters at many colleges. It doesn't look like it's supposed to be some kind of honor society, but, like AMSA, looks like the benefits would be more in the nature of networking and exposure to opportunities.
 
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KnightDoc said:
I Googled it after the OP. It's a legit medical profession fraternity, with chapters at many medical schools, as well as premed chapters at many colleges. It doesn't look like supposed to be some kind of honor society, but, like AMSA, looks like the benefits would be more in the nature of networking and exposure to opportunities.
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Could you clarify? It's a group of physicians???
Nevermind, I googled it. Seems to be medical students/pre-meds.
 
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It seems you are unaware of the differences in Greek organizations out there. A number of schools around the country have very academically-focused fraternities & sororities (STEM, Engineering, Pre-Med, etc.) and they're far different from your traditional social fraternities / sororities that are prone to partying and so on. You're thinking more old school "Animal House" which most of these are not.
 
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Putkernerinthehall said:
It seems you are unaware of the differences in Greek organizations out there. A number of schools around the country have very academically-focused fraternities & sororities (STEM, Engineering, Pre-Med, etc.) and they're far different from your traditional social fraternities / sororities that are prone to partying and so on. You're thinking more old school "Animal House" which most of these are not.
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And we're supposed to know this how?
 
KnightDoc said:
Umm, to paraphrase advice you have given many, many, many times over the years, if you don't know, maybe you don't comment??? 😎

I learned it by using my Google machine for 30 seconds.
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The application process is not just about having a well rounded application but managing perceptions. The overwhelming perception of Greek life is based on what one sees and hears in the media, most of which is not good. I’m not putting this to argue the merits of this organization, or Greek life as a whole (I was involved myself). But if in an application someone includes an organization that requires someone to do a google search to get an *accurate* idea of what it is because of existing perceptions, it would be wise to re-evaluate its place. Very few will have that kind of time - it’s much easier to go with the perception and continue evaluating the application.
 
GreenDuck12 said:
The application process is not just about having a well rounded application but managing perceptions. The overwhelming perception of Greek life is based on what one sees and hears in the media, most of which is not good. I’m not putting this to argue the merits of this organization, or Greek life as a whole (I was involved myself). But if in an application someone includes an organization that requires someone to do a google search to get an *accurate* idea of what it is because of existing perceptions, it would be wise to re-evaluate its place. Very few will have that kind of time - it’s much easier to go with the perception and continue evaluating the application.
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If you say so. Maybe I shouldn't accept an offer into Phi Beta Kappa either, out of fear that some adcom out there won't know what it is.

Now we as applicants have to worry about every single bias or prejudice an adcom might have, and play to the lowest common denominator of safety? Everyone needs to do what's right for them, but in 2020, I'm not going to worry about someone who thinks in terms of "raping coeds," even if it means I'm jeopardizing my chances at some DO school as a result. After all, this isn't exactly a "street medic," to borrow from another recent thread. This is a legit medical fraternity, founded in 1904 at Cornell, with chapters at medical schools from Harvard to UNLV, and at UGs all over the country.

Are you really suggesting we have to worry about someone from some big time DO school west of the Mississippi having to do a Google search before deciding whether an activity is worthwhile, or worth including in an application???? The good news is we probably won't have to worry about explaining it in our Harvard or Cornell applications. 😎
 
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KnightDoc said:
If you say so. Maybe I shouldn't accept an offer into Phi Beta Kappa either, out of fear that some @Goro out there won't know what it is.

Now we as applicants have to worry about every single bias or prejudice an adcom might have, and play to the lowest common denominator of safety? Everyone needs to do what's right for them, but in 2020, I'm not going to worry about someone who thinks in terms of "raping coeds," even if it means I'm jeopardizing my chances at some DO school as a result. After all, this isn't exactly a "street medic," to borrow from another recent thread. This is a legit medical fraternity, founded in 1904 at Cornell, with chapters at medical schools from Harvard to UNLV, and at UGs all over the country.

Are you really suggesting we have to worry about someone from some big time DO school west of the Mississippi having to do a Google search before deciding whether an activity is worthwhile, or worth including in an application???? The good news is we probably won't have to worry about explaining it in our Harvard or Cornell applications. 😎
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Man, I just don’t even know where to start sometimes
 
GreenDuck12 said:
Man, I just don’t even know where to start sometimes
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How about by advising applicants to strongly consider playing to the lowest common denominator and to think carefully about mentioning an association with a 100 year old medical fraternity because a prolific adcom poster on SDN hasn't heard of it, and it causes him to conjure up images of John Belushi and 1950s "coeds"? That seems like a good place to start. :laugh:
 
Zorax said:
How are you active so much?? Are you maybe.... an undercover mod?
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Nope. Just a bored premed who has had a few ECs, as well as in person classes, put on hold!!! I think it's pretty safe to say there is nothing "undercover" about me!!! 🙂
 
KnightDoc said:
How about by advising applicants to strongly consider playing to the lowest common denominator and to think carefully about mentioning an association with a 100 year old medical fraternity because a prolific adcom poster on SDN hasn't heard of it, and it causes him to conjure up images of John Belushi and 1950s "coeds"? That seems like a good place to start. :laugh:
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Yeah, I think you should reread what I wrote. Maybe more than once...

I said manage perceptions - not don’t join. The OP asked about a service fraternity enhancing an application. Without name recognition, as an app reviewer you latch onto “fraternity.” Greek life ECs generally don’t score very highly on rubrics for leadership and campus engagement... I’m not quite sure why you jumped down the Animal House rabbit hole... too few toga parties in the time of Covid, perhaps?
 
GreenDuck12 said:
Yeah, I think you should reread what I wrote. Maybe more than once...

I said manage perceptions - not don’t join. The OP asked about a service fraternity enhancing an application. Without name recognition, as an app reviewer you latch onto “fraternity.” Greek life ECs generally don’t score very highly on rubrics for leadership and campus engagement... I’m not quite sure why you jumped down the Animal House rabbit hole... too few toga parties in the time of Covid, perhaps?
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Nope. @Goro had his post deleted, but you can see the quote in my post #s 8 and 10 to see where the Animal House rabbit hole came from.

I generally love your posts, and, of course, agree with the wisdom of playing to an audience. I guess I'm just overreacting to the notion that we are all so desperate, and they (adcoms) are all so powerful, that we have to worry about them and their perceptions even when they don't know what they are doing.

Maybe I'm delusional and I'll pay for it when the time comes, but I'm not going to worry about an adcom who doesn't know the difference between Phi Delta Epsilon and Delta Tau Chi.
 
Right - I wouldn’t let what you put in an application dictate all the activities that you do. There are plenty of things someone can and should do that should not be included in an application because there are other more important things to include. But I would manage perceptions during the application process by including/reframing some activities. During the application process you are literally being evaluated by what is on paper, until you get invited to an interview. App reviewers pick up on pieces of our story and color those in based on their perceptions of those activities. Based on that, you may get invited to an interview or you may not. For that reason, I generally advocate for putting things in the simplest terms possible. In this case, just list the service.
 
GreenDuck12 said:
Right - I wouldn’t let what you put in an application dictate all the activities that you do. There are plenty of things someone can and should do that should not be included in an application because there are other more important things to include. But I would manage perceptions during the application process by including/reframing some activities. During the application process you are literally being evaluated by what is on paper, until you get invited to an interview. App reviewers pick up on pieces of our story and color those in based on their perceptions of those activities. Based on that, you may get invited to an interview or you may not. For that reason, I generally advocate for putting things in the simplest terms possible. In this case, just list the service.
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In general your advice is solid, but in this case we'll have to agree to disagree. I would never expect a so-called professional expert on an adcom for a professional graduate school to conflate an esteemed service fraternity in that very profession with a wild, degenerate stereotype of a social fraternity. "And we're supposed to know this how?" -- Educate yourself, for crying out loud!!!! It's your job!! Or, just sit on your butt because it's a seller's market. Your choice!!!!

So, I wouldn't just list the service because it would never occur to me to hide the affiliation with the organization. In my experience, playing to a lowest common denominator often backfires. I realize it's a seller's market, but, even so, in this case it would be the school's loss, not the candidate's. JMHO.
 
Goro said:
And we're supposed to know this how?
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Well, I don't know. As an AdCom / faculty member, I'm thinking from student interactions and review of applications you would generally be aware of academically focused greek organizations --- not the specific ones necessarily, but merely that they exist and are not akin to the Animal House stereotype. But, hey, maybe not. What do I know...
 
KnightDoc said:
Was it crowded? Social distancing? Masks????
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Some of the beaches are crowded and couldn't find parking, so went to lesser known beach and its not that crowded. No one was wearing masks on beach but maintaining social distances. I am referring to beaches north of San Francisco.
 
gyngyn said:
I have little familiarity with this group. I doubt that mere membership will advance your application.
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Thanks gyngyn. That was my thought as well but was wondering if there was any benefit for the networking. Appreciate the honesty! Going to focus on what I am really passionate about, which is scribing and resident advising 🙂
 
GreenDuck12 said:
Yeah, I think you should reread what I wrote. Maybe more than once...

I said manage perceptions - not don’t join. The OP asked about a service fraternity enhancing an application. Without name recognition, as an app reviewer you latch onto “fraternity.” Greek life ECs generally don’t score very highly on rubrics for leadership and campus engagement... I’m not quite sure why you jumped down the Animal House rabbit hole... too few toga parties in the time of Covid, perhaps?
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And, for the record, I didn't say you said don't join! I said don't mention the association, which is exactly what you're advising. Except you are serious and I am being sarcastic. I see nothing wrong with proudly mentioning an association with an esteemed organization, even at the risk of someone not being good at their job and not knowing the difference between an esteemed organization and a disreputable one.

In my opinion, that would be his employer's problem, not mine. Adcoms love to talk about all the premed delusions on SDN. One I'm not going to indulge in is that I am a desperate, fungible nothing because med schools admissions are a seller's market. Either I'll be successful or I won't. 60% are unsuccessful every cycle, and we are rejected until we aren't.

On the other hand, 40% are successful. Without jinxing myself too much, I choose to visualize myself in the 40%. If I am not successful, I highly doubt it will be because of an application listing membership in a reputable organization that an unknowledgeable adcom is not familiar with.
 
KnightDoc said:
And, for the record, I didn't say you said don't join! I said don't mention the association, which is exactly what you're advising. Except you are serious and I am being sarcastic. I see nothing wrong with proudly mentioning an association with an esteemed organization, even at the risk of someone not being good at their job and not knowing the difference between an esteemed organization and a disreputable one.

In my opinion, that would be his employer's problem, not mine. Adcoms love to talk about all the premed delusions on SDN. One I'm not going to indulge in is that I am a desperate, fungible nothing because med schools admissions are a seller's market. Either I'll be successful or I won't. 60% are unsuccessful every cycle, and we are rejected until we aren't.

On the other hand, 40% are successful. Without jinxing myself too much, I choose to visualize myself in the 40%. If I am not successful, I highly doubt it will be because of an application listing membership in a reputable organization that an unknowledgeable adcom is not familiar with.
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I was told even PBK won't matter (but I am mad at my kid not applying for it) so why beat up volunteer adcoms about not knowing every org?
 
OP -- a few of my friends rushed Phi DE just for the connections/experiences. No one put it on their apps because it would have been a waste of space, but they did get shadowing/that coveted DO LOR for DO apps/clinical job opportunities that don't require qualifications.

We don't have a chapter at my school, but if we did, I would probably rush it for what you get out of it, and leave it off my app.
 
Putkernerinthehall said:
Well, I don't know. As an AdCom / faculty member, I'm thinking from student interactions and review of applications you would generally be aware of academically focused greek organizations --- not the specific ones necessarily, but merely that they exist and are not akin to the Animal House stereotype. But, hey, maybe not. What do I know...
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Nope. That's not my job. It's YOUR job as the applicant to enlighten us.
 
habitualnerd said:
I am thinking about rushing Phi Delta Epsilon at my school. I am a junior so I've obviously sat on it for a while. I know some are in it but not sure if it's worth it. I am pretty involved with the AMSA chapter at my school and have a lot on my plate as an RA, a TA, researching, volunteering (sadly mostly cancelled this year), student government, and resident advisor appraisal and standards board.

Is it worth my time to rush or should I just forget it? Since I am rushing late I don't really know if it's worth my time to rush if it's just for networking.
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you know, i read the whole thread top to bottom, and i finally formed my opinion (that i am sure, EVERYONE was dying to know. ahhaha).

But there it is: JOIN IT because this is fun, and you might meet cool people. Dont worry about joining for medical school's sake (even though networking is a good thing, - i would explore that reason). Join because you will be crazy busy in medical school, and residency, and you are in undergrad. This is time to push your limits, explore things, meet new people, and have fun (responsibly). Dont worry about what we think, - just ask yourself: "what do I WANT?". And go for it. Just listen to your intuition.
If you do decide to do it, - get involved, embrace it, and then explain it very nicely in your essays (there is space in the application to explain each activity). If you decide not to, - do it only because YOU dont want it. Not because of medical school application.
 
Medical org (my son is in Phi De) helps pre-meds to understand, network, grow/nurture medicine path knowledge, especially kids who otherwise may not have an access to medical community other than their pediatrician. You may gain knowledge about army/navy/air-force medical services if the chapter invites them. If you climbed the ladder and gain a leadership position, which is something may be useful for an application.
 
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